Dumb Remark of the Day

[August1991]

Liberal leader Paul Martin said yesterday that Liberal candidates are entitled to run in this election even if they want to deny Charter rights to gays and lesbians seeking same-sex marriage.

This appears to contradict a controversial declaration made a day earlier by Mr. Martin, when he said Conservative leader Stephen Harper shouldn't even be running for the highest political office in the land because of his refusal to protect same-sex marriages as a Charter right.

But when pressed by journalists to explain why this double standard is acceptable, given that he says protection of the Charter is a fundamental "principle," Mr. Martin said his higher standard only applies to those leaders who want to run the government.

"The point that I made was one that was directed at the prime minister -- the person who occupies the job of prime minister," said Mr. Martin.

"The issue is not, 'What does an individual MP say?' An individual MP is entitled to his or her vision.'

"The issue is, 'What is the role and responsibility of the prime minister of the country?' And the role of the prime minister of the country is to support the Charter of Rights and Freedoms. And it is not, in any way, shape, or form, to call the Charter into doubt."

Paul Martin, 18 December 2005

Ottawa Citizen

[kimmy]

He wants a cake that he's already eaten.

-k

[August1991]

Despite a Conservative promise to force a vote on the issue, Ed Schreyer said the same sex debate "is irrelevant." He refuses to say if he endorses the NDP position on it.

"Parliament has dealt with it and I am not one of those asking that it be re-opened," Schreyer told reporters. "I'm sorry, I am not saying a damned word further. It's been dealt with."

Ed Schreyer, 20 December 2005

Vancouver Sun

----

Why is the same sex marriage issue such a rich mine of dumb statements? Dunno.

[Yaro]

No one who does have a real job feels secure in it, and fuel costs and taxes keep rising ever higher.

Fuel taxes have remained constant.

We have hundreds of thousands of employable people warehoused on welfare,

No we don't, welfare has been cut to the bone. You should do some research on this issue, a good place to start is how the liberals in BC (which are really the old Socred party under the liberal name) tried to cut welfare lists in BC and found that there simply wasn't anyone that was employable.

and God only knows how many who work just long enough, as fishermen or mill workers, to qualify for pogey each year.

Those programs are long gone, nobody qualifies after a short off season anymore.

Meanwhile, baby boomers are aging, and our social and health services for seniors is heading for collapse without a major investment of funds and planning.

Our Pension plan is one of the only fully funded plans in the world, and the liberals did that while cutting one of the heaviest deficits in the western world.

That’s 4 factual errors out of what? 6 statements?

And everything I buy comes from China.

But I don't get it, haven't you argued in the past that the fact that we import all these goods from china and have a trade deficit with them is beneficial to us?

As I said before, your issues are with RoL (return on Labour) being driven down by competition with slave labour markets like China. The Conservatives are the last party you should want in power.

[PolyNewbie]

I'd really like to know how exactly the Libs have taken any responsibility for Adscam.

Marc, please explain.

[captaincanuck]

I'd really like to know how exactly the Libs have taken any responsibility for Adscam.

Marc, please explain.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Gomery Inquiry -

Came about of the liberals own accord, and then promised to call an election as soon as the final findings were released. Now, if you are really really guilty, and you set up an inquiry that you know will find out for sure, and release, as facts, a list of names involved, would you promise to hold an election when it was done? I know a lot of people have a hard time believing that Paul Martin was not directly aware of a large portion (or any at all) of what went on, but you have to admit its possible. The liberals did all they could short of falling on their swords, which, if you believe yourself innocent, you are not going to do. (flame on!)

Second, i dont know how anyone can think that the economy has gone to pot, that it isnt doing well, and on any given day i have an employee deficit that i just cant solve. Shortage of jobs? Hardly, a shortage of people willing to work. If anyone in this country who is of sound body is not gainfully employed right now, they are either waiting for the perfect job, or are lazy. My father (a ticketed tradesman) went without work for 14 months under the last Conservative government, and finally had to pack up his family and move from northern Ontario to northern BC in order to find work. Since then, under the liberals, he has not been unemployed, and has not been scared for his job, and, like i mentioned, i would give my left foot to have people beating down my door looking for a job.

Now, personal experience aside, we can bring up the points already mentioned - huge debt repayments (didnt happen under the last conservative government), balanced budgets (again, didnt happen under BM), lowest unemployment rates in ages, a strong dollar, economic growth (at the top of the G8 nations), and all the conservatives can really find to blast away with is adscam?

Does anyone remember the airbus affair?

There are no perfect governments, they are, after all, made up of humans. Nobody is perfect. Now, when given the choice between adscam, strong economy, low unemployment, unprecedented growth, debt repayment, and balanced budgets OR an as yet unknown scandal (every government has them, its a given) and a huge deficit, no debt repayment, high unemployment, low growth, etc., my choice is clear, and if Canadians could get over the soundbites and really think about how good it is now vs. what it was like in the late 80s/early 90s (and there were still scandals then), then the polls would be a lot different.

We are seeing what a conservative, right wing government does to a country right now and all we have to do is look at the US. Huge (mind boggling) deficits, low growth, high unemployment and to curb some of that they are shafting their largest trading partner by adopting protectionist measures (violating NAFTA at the same time). Hard line right wing government good? not in recent memory.

If the liberals can give another 2 terms of growth, low unemployment, balanced budgets and can repay another 38 billion (pretty sure thats the number) towards the national debt, then they can burn 300 million for all i care. The alternative isn't even remotely appetizing at this point.

and with that, im going to bed. ill bring the fire extinguisher in the morning.

[August1991]

Huh? Yaro, Poly and Captain, what do your comments have to do with NDP Schreyer's position against same-sex marriage and NDP Layton's obvious civilized acceptance of Schreyer's opinions? (When it comes to gays, how is the NDP different from the Liberals or the Conservatives? Do you make the same distinction as Martin that a PM is different?)

----

I sense however that Captain defends the Liberal economic policies. So let me consider that point.

Well, Canada used to be the top UNHDI country. Now, we're not. And this is according to the scoring of a Liberal index, one Chretien loved to cite.

The country Canada is not in a race. But individual Canadians could do much better if our federal government were different.

Collectively, we Canadians can contribute more to the world community.

[captaincanuck]

Huh? Yaro, Poly and Captain, what do your comments have to do with NDP Schreyer's position against same-sex marriage and NDP Layton's obvious civilized acceptance of Schreyer's opinions?  (When it comes to gays, how is the NDP different from the Liberals or the Conservatives?  Do you make the same distinction as Martin that a PM is different?)

To me, anyway, the same sex marriage issue should be over. Any opinions now are not political ones, but personal ones. I believe Martin is right when he says that its a charter issue, concerning personal rights and freedoms, it shouldnt be something up to a vote based on personal opinion, it should be something covered and protected under the charter of rights and freedoms. The free vote that Harper is calling for isnt a free vote, and nobodys personal opinions (even those of elected officials) should threaten someones basic freedoms (freedom from discrimination based on sexual orientation). Any vote that overturns the current position will simply happen again under the next new government, and if it sounds like everyone is beating a dead horse now, imagine what it will sound like in 4 years, or 8, or 12.

I think any candidate should be allowed to express their opinions, contradictory to their party policy as they may be, as long as everyone knows its a personal view, and not one endorsed by the party. But the SSM issue isnt a political issue anymore, or at least it shouldnt be, its a charter issue now.

I hate arguing from work. so distracting.

[August1991]

"So you want Prime Minister Stephen Harper!?! Scary! He wants to turn the entire country into Alberta. The Conservatives are like the Republican Party of Canada!"

Actual Torontonian, 22 December 2005

Some Blog

I know this is old but the quote explains the following:

While the media have been giving Stephen Harper credit for running a smooth campaign so far, Canadians are saying it is Paul Martin and the Liberals who have run the best campaign up to the Christmas break.

CTV

----

To me, anyway, the same sex marriage issue should be over. Any opinions now are not political ones, but personal ones. I believe Martin is right when he says that its a charter issue, concerning personal rights and freedoms, it shouldnt be something up to a vote based on personal opinion, it should be something covered and protected under the charter of rights and freedoms.

Captain, you have entirely avoided my question. Schreyer could not bring himself to say that he is in favour of SSM - yet Layton stands by him as an NDP candidate. IOW, Layton is taking the same position as Harper.

I note too that you don't say it is protected under the Charter but rather it should be protected under the Charter.

A long time ago, different parts of Canada dealt with these kinds of social issues differently. It is one reason Canada is a federal state. By forcing all Canadians to accept this change in rights, and doing it in a backdoor manner, leaves many Canadians silently muttering - like Schreyer. Live and let live works both ways; Canada works when there is a spirit of compromise.

[August1991]

In connection with a shooting in downtown Toronto:

The rash of shootings prompted police to launch a gun amnesty program in November. However, of the 261 weapons collected, only 33 were handguns.

CBC, 26 December 2005

Only 33?

[August1991]

"Mike has been a long-time Liberal and holds the Liberal values of diversity and tolerance and inclusiveness so [making racial remarks] certainly wasn't his intention. His intention was to have a humorous site with some biting humour that he and some fellow Liberals could [read]. He recognized there's a couple of things that crossed the line."

Stephen Heckbert, 27 December 2005, speaking about once fellow Liberal campaign activist, Michael Klander

G & M

Stephen Heckbert was/is press guy for Joe Volpe, but now appears to be the press guy at the Liberals' Ontario office. (A "volunteer" too?)

I have always felt sorry for press guys. They have to make dumb remarks, knowing full well that they are making dumb remarks.

[August1991]

"The young people talked to me about the void in their lives, and what hopelessness and what exclusion can bring."

Paul Martin, 28 December 2005, offers an explanation/excuse for shootings in Toronto

Toronto Star

[Guest eureka]

Something that Conservatives will never understand from the comfort of suburbia and their commuter cars.

[August1991]

Goodale has his Kim Campbell moment:

"This is an election campaign and politicians will do what politicians do, but I do not intend to . . . respond in kind because this is an issue that I just take too seriously to be treated as the ordinary, run-of-the-mill political football in the middle of an election campaign," Mr. Goodale said.

Ralph Goodale, 28 December 2005

G & M

----

Some politicians just don't get it. They want to be able to exercise power without the pesky scrutiny of the public, particularly a public that is about to vote.

[mowich]

I really think you guys would be shocked to learn that Adscam isn't top of mind for mot voters... Preserving our Health Care, Social Infrastructure, creating jobs and our strong economy is... and THAT is why Harper has a slim chance of winning the big tostada!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

When will people wake up and realize It Is Not the business of any government to create jobs! That is done by the private sector without which we wouldn't have the money to spend on social programs. And why would anyone want to "preserve Health Care" the way it is currenlty run. Social Infrastructure? You want more governmnet intervention in your life??? Slim chance is still a chance and we Conservatives will run with it.

[August1991]

In response to an RCMP investingation of Income Trust leaks, Martin appeals to the strong form of the Efficient Markets Hypothesis for an explanation:

"There are a lot of people who are essentially ... saying out there that what you're dealing with is ... simply the way that ... markets function," said the prime minister.

Paul Martin, 30 December 2005

CBC

[Canuck E Stan]

January 2,2006

Martin tries to hit campaign re-set button

"The effort began early Monday, when Martin began a series of interviews with nine major news organizations. It carried on into the afternoon when he repeated his tightly scripted message at a campaign event"

"This is a very different government than the previous government, in terms of the way we approach child care is an example."

When it was pointed out national child care was a promise in the 1993 Liberal platform, Martin bridled.

"Wait a minute. The fact is, we brought it in."

The whole article is full of Martin one liners.

[newbie]

From Jack Layton: “So voting Liberal isn’t being smart. It’s being played, played by a broken Liberal party, by a leader who doesn’t know what he believes - The Toronto Star. Poor Layton. He must really be scared by comments like that. Kind of reminds me of one I read just recently on this forum. I guess desperation calls for belittling of a person's right to choose.

.

[August1991]

Flying over Saskatchewan and looking down:

"Y'know what Canada is? Canada is full of fuck all."

Denis Thatcher, October 1987

The Guardian

[Kiraly]

Link to Goodale Comment

From our Finance Minister

The federal Conservatives continue to dismiss Liberal claims that proposed Tory policies would plunge the government into a deficit.

Liberal cabinet ministers are raising the issue in the two weeks leading up to the election, including Finance Minister Ralph Goodale in Saskatoon Monday.

He said a government under Stephen Harper would lead to increased taxes, a cut in programs, and a deficit.

Increase in taxes + Cut in Programs = Deficit.

Aye carumba!

[tml12]

Link to Goodale Comment

From our Finance Minister

The federal Conservatives continue to dismiss Liberal claims that proposed Tory policies would plunge the government into a deficit.

Liberal cabinet ministers are raising the issue in the two weeks leading up to the election, including Finance Minister Ralph Goodale in Saskatoon Monday.

He said a government under Stephen Harper would lead to increased taxes, a cut in programs, and a deficit.

Increase in taxes + Cut in Programs = Deficit.

Aye carumba!

That's how they are running it now Kiraly (I still am getting used to your user name)...

[August1991]

In response to a suggestion that he would support Michael Ignatieff in an upcoming Liberal leadership race:

"Bull, total baloney and a cheap shot... Everybody knows that if there is a leadership race, I'd support Frank McKenna."

David Peterson, 10 January 2006

Toronto Star

Curiously, the NDP website is also carrying this quote.

[tml12]

In response to a suggestion that he would support Michael Ignatieff in an upcoming Liberal leadership race:

"Bull, total baloney and a cheap shot... Everybody knows that if there is a leadership race, I'd support Frank McKenna."

David Peterson, 10 January 2006

Toronto Star

Curiously, the NDP website is also carrying this quote.

I don't think a lot of people know where Ignatieff stands on a lot of the issues. I mean, I think we know a lot more about where he stands on the Russian government, not the Canadian one.

[stignasty]

"One of the reasons I am voting Conservative, aside from standing up for Canada" - tml12

[tml12]

"One of the reasons I am voting Conservative, aside from standing up for Canada" - tml12

Glad you found it funny...