Martin goes on the attack.

[shoop]

Québéc is a tough nut for the Conservatives. I agree Sharkman that they will try and take the high road. Not much room for making inroads there and appearing statesmanlike can only help in la belle provence.

That's far worse an outcome than Harper's description.  I'm waiting for the CPC to start drawing this parallel but they will probably take the high road on this one, hoping Quebec changes her mind.

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[normanchateau]

Norman, the end result of the Liberal party's actions in Quebec will be a loss of all their seats come the election, and a big push towards separation.  If the Liberals win a minority or a majority they will have zero credibility in Quebec and may be in power when Quebec walks away.  That's far worse an outcome than Harper's description.  I'm waiting for the CPC to start drawing this parallel but they will probably take the high road on this one, hoping Quebec changes her mind.

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So Harper saying that the Liberals were "guilty of breaking every conceivable law in the province Quebec" is taking the high road? By the way given Harper's claims of "Liberal corruption", can you name a single Liberal MP running in this election who has broken a law in Quebec or any other province?

[Argus]

Ultimately, Harper has to reassure many women in Ontario.  For the moment, he seems like an Angry Ex-Husband who gripes about paying alimony (or an Angry Husband who simply gripes).

He has to reassure them that when he kept changing his position on abortion due to the upopularity of his stance, that he really means it... honest... he won't try to ban abortions.... honest.... really... cross my fingers...

Did Harper ever say his party would ban abortion? Was it ever the policy of the Reform Party, the Alliance, the or the Tories to ban abortion?

[southerncomfort]

Did Harper ever say his party would ban abortion? Was it ever the policy of the Reform Party, the Alliance, the or the Tories to ban abortion?

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No it was not a policy, and they have never said such a thing, and is not a policy now. This is just more drive by slander. Wait for it, it'll get worse Last election it was "scary", now it's "Harper hates Canada". or Harper wil.... insert whatever scary comment here. Sigh

[Guest eureka]

They won't answer you, Norman. They are Conservative hacks, and, as such, are uncomfortable with the truth.

[August1991]

Can you name a single Liberal MP running in the January election who has broken every conceivable law? Can you name a single Liberal MP running in the next election who has broken even one law?  The "Liberal corruption" chant and drone didn't work last time and it won't work this time.  Canadians are fair-minded. They know that their current Liberal MPs had no more to do with adscam than the other CPC MPs had to do with the antics of Grewal or the NDP MPs had to do with Svend's ring. Bye bye Harper and save your lies for the CPC supporters.

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Are you seriously equating Grewal taping a conversation and the millions of dollars stolen from Canadian taxpayers and then funneled back to the government party for use during election campaigns?

Name? In the late 1990s, Denis Coderre was VP of Groupe Polygone - one of the advertising firms implicated in Adscam. In all likelihood, Coderre will not be re-elected in Bourassa (despite the new GG).

Needless to say, Gomery was specifically told not to investigate Earnscliffe or any contracts allocated by the Minister of Finance. I'll add that Gomery did not lead a judicial enquiry. Gomery was not asked to lay charges.

BTW, you might find it useful to look up the term "fall-guy".

----

Norman, you seem to be under the illusion that the Liberal Party under Paul Martin is pristeen. Since we live in a civilized democracy, you are welcome to your opinion. But you might be interested to know that your fellow Canadians fundamentally disagree with you:

The Ipsos-Reid poll, done for CanWest News Service and Global News, shows a public itching for change - 57 per cent of those surveyed agreed the "federal Liberal party is fundamentally corrupt and does not deserve to be re-elected."

CanWest

[newbie]

How can you have, in the same poll, "57 per cent of those surveyed agreed the federal Liberal party is fundamentally corrupt and does not deserve to be re-elected" and at the same time have the Libs and Cons tied at 31%?

[sharkman]

So Harper saying that the Liberals were "guilty of breaking every conceivable law in the province Quebec" is taking the high road? By the way given Harper's claims of "Liberal corruption", can you name a single Liberal MP running in this election who has broken a law in Quebec or any other province?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Norman, you ascribe my comment of Harper taking the high road to something I clearly didn't connect it to, then point to it as wrong? If you continue to think this way you will end up confusing yourself.

The Liberals have done so much damage in Quebec with their scandal, Quebec may seperate. Can you get your head around that? The laws that were broken will probably never come to the light of day since there isn't much of a paper trail, the Liberals were paying in CASH to avoid paper trails. But support them all you want. I don't really care if they get arrested, right now I just want to throw the bums out.

[kimmy]

So Harper saying that the Liberals were "guilty of breaking every conceivable law in the province Quebec" is taking the high road? By the way given Harper's claims of "Liberal corruption", can you name a single Liberal MP running in this election who has broken a law in Quebec or any other province?

Has anybody running for the Liberals in Quebec been charged in connection with the sponsorship program? No, I guess not.

How many candidates running for the Liberals in Quebec had previous campaigns paid for by money stolen through the sponsorship program?

How many of the Liberals' Quebec wing organizers had hands-on roles? How many people who knew what was going on didn't receive the "lifetime bans" that Paul Martin was dishing out? How much more went on that we didn't find out about?

How much went on outside the scope of Gomery's mandate? What about Earnscliffe? What about all those "Foundations" established in 1997 that were designed to be not subject to the access to information act and not subject to scrutiny from the auditor general? How about the firearms registry: the RCMP has already laid 2 charges for bogus expenses in the gun registry, how much more is waiting to be discovered?

At Enron, the slogan was "Don't send a memo if you can make a phone call, don't make a phone call if you can say it in person, and don't say anything if a wink or a nod will suffice." Add in some references to brown envelops left on tables, and that could be the Liberals too.

Proven guilty beyond a reasonable doubt might be the standard when it comes to deciding whether to throw someone in jail. And I suppose that for some people, "they couldn't find enough evidence to lay charges" might be reason enough to vote for somebody. But personally my standard is a little higher.

-k

[Guest eureka]

Your standard in that post, unfortunately, is innuendo.

[sharkman]

I wonder what Quebec's standards are, being that they are going to do what we all should do and throw the bums out. When a government resorts to paying by envelopes of cash to remove a paper trail, then their 'standards' are too low.

[shoop]

I think that would be a great ad. The image of an envelope full of cash in a restaurant with questions about sponsorship...

I wonder what Quebec's standards are, being that they are going to do what we all should do and through the bums out.  When a government resorts to paying by envelopes of cash to remove a paper trail, then their 'standards' are too low.

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[kimmy]

Your standard in that post, unfortunately, is innuendo.

We've heard sworn testimony about the lengths the Liberals went to in obfuscating their activities and in leaving no paper trail of their activities. Why would anyone assume there wasn't more? I don't see any reason to assume there wasn't. I see no reason to give them the benefit of the doubt.

It is not innuendo that the RCMP has filed charges for fraudulent expenses at the gun registry. It is a fact, and it is a fact that should raise suspicion given spiralling costs and the pattern of behavior we saw in sponsorship.

The issue of the "Foundations" remains of interest to me. Given that they were specifically established in such a way as to be outside the scope of scrutiny, at the height of sponsorship money laundering, why shouldn't people be suspicious? They've resisted Shiela Fraser's efforts to get more access. Doesn't that seem suspicious, considering Paul Martin's supposed enthusiasm for openness and transparency?

Is it innuendo to talk about why you no longer trust an institution? Is it innuendo if they've brought suspicion on themselves with their own record? If you don't think I'm being fair, then go ahead and convince me that any of my suspicions are unjustified.

-k

[Argus]

Your standard in that post, unfortunately, is innuendo.

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Actually it was logic, but I've long noticed your lack of familiarity with the concept so I can see where you'd be a bit confused.

[Argus]

I think that would be a great ad. The image of an envelope full of cash in a restaurant with questions about sponsorship...

I wonder what Quebec's standards are, being that they are going to do what we all should do and through the bums out.  When a government resorts to paying by envelopes of cash to remove a paper trail, then their 'standards' are too low.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Yes, the ad should have shady looking men in a dingy restaurant, checking each other for wires, looking out for the cops, then passing envelopes stuffed with cash across the table. If you want them to say anything, one can say "Now do i get the contract?" The other can reply. "The minister will see that you're taken care of".

[shoop]

That would be awesome. Hmmm, still time enough to produce that one for the *real* campaign after Xmas. Take note anybody in the Conservative war room...

Yes, the ad should have shady looking men in a dingy restaurant, checking each other for wires, looking out for the cops, then passing envelopes stuffed with cash across the table. If you want them to say anything, one can say "Now do i get the contract?" The other can reply. "The minister will see that you're taken care of".

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[normanchateau]

Can you name a single Liberal MP running in the January election who has broken every conceivable law? Can you name a single Liberal MP running in the next election who has broken even one law?  The "Liberal corruption" chant and drone didn't work last time and it won't work this time.  Canadians are fair-minded. They know that their current Liberal MPs had no more to do with adscam than the other CPC MPs had to do with the antics of Grewal or the NDP MPs had to do with Svend's ring. Bye bye Harper and save your lies for the CPC supporters.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Are you seriously equating Grewal taping a conversation and the millions of dollars stolen from Canadian taxpayers and then funneled back to the government party for use during election campaigns?

I wasn't even referring to the tapes. Grewal was involved in numerous sleazy antics and was still under investigation for two charges when he resigned "for the good of the party". But let's return to my questions.

The liar Stephen Harper stated on November 24th that the Liberals were "guilty of breaking every conceivable law in the province of Quebec." Can you name a single Liberal MP running in the January election who has broken every conceivable law?

Can you name a single Liberal MP running in the next election who has broken even one law?

Harper might try being honest for a change instead of fabricating stories.

[shoop]

If you are stuck using week old quotes for attacks the Liberals are in pretty bad shape. It was hyperbole, but even the CBC has let that one go. Move on already.

Better watch the liar line. Definitely breaking the rules of the forum...

The liar Stephen Harper stated on November 24th that the Liberals were "guilty of breaking every conceivable law in the province of Quebec."  Can you name a single Liberal MP running in the January election who has broken every conceivable law?

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[tml12]

If you are stuck using week old quotes for attacks the Liberals are in pretty bad shape. It was hyperbole, but even the CBC has let that one go. Move on already.

Better watch the liar line. Definitely breaking the rules of the forum...

The liar Stephen Harper stated on November 24th that the Liberals were "guilty of breaking every conceivable law in the province of Quebec."  Can you name a single Liberal MP running in the January election who has broken every conceivable law?

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<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

It probably was hyperbole but Harper should not be campaigning like this. See my post: How To Win This Election.

Quebecers are not just to vote for Harper because. This is a politically-sensitive province.

[normanchateau]

If you are stuck using week old quotes for attacks...

The liar Stephen Harper stated on November 24th that the Liberals were "guilty of breaking every conceivable law in the province of Quebec."  Can you name a single Liberal MP running in the January election who has broken every conceivable law?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Oh no, a week old! Imagine expecting Harper to have not changed his position or not flipflopped for an entire week. That is expecting a lot

[shoop]

See norman, the media has moved on and you probly should too.

btw, nice cut and paste removing the comments about breaking the message board rules. Very classy.

Oh no, a week old! Imagine expecting Harper to have not changed his position or not flipflopped for an entire week. That is expecting a lot 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

[normanchateau]

See norman, the media has moved on and you probly should

Oh no, a week old! Imagine expecting Harper to have not changed his position or not flipflopped for an entire week. That is expecting a lot 

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<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Why is it relevant that the media have moved on? The media are far too kind to Harper and have failed to remind Canadians that Harper is even more socially conservative than many of his supporters. CPC is doomed in the next election given that 70% of Canadians prefer parties to the left of Harper's and Harper has positioned himself such that he seems even more conservative than much of his own party.

[shoop]

The media is far too kind to Harper? Wow, you are lost in your own world. The media controls the agenda, that is the way it is. You would be very hard pressed to find *any* neutral media analyst who would concur with your warped world view.

The relevant point you are missing, as are many Liberals, is respect for people and common decency. There are rules to this board, that involve respect and treating people decently. Calling Harper a liar was out of line. Grow up and play by the rules.

Why is it relevant that the media have moved on?  The media are far too kind to Harper

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[normanchateau]

The relevant point you are missing, as are many Liberals, is respect for people and common decency.

Why is it relevant that the media have moved on?  The media are far too kind to Harper

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Speaking of respect and common decency, who said the following?

The Liberal party has "been found guilty of breaking every conceivable law in the province of Quebec with the help of organized crime..."

Does that statement show respect and common decency? Is the statement true?

If the statement is not true, what does it say about the person who uttered it?

Calling it hyperbole does not, of course, make the statement true.

[shoop]

Unfortunately normie, the lies you have posted cannot be proven fales.

I know the quote you put up isn't accurate. But can't prove it. So you can sit in your track pants and bask in the glory of your victory.

Alas, your Liberals won't win the election so it will be a pretty pyrrhic victory.

Please do respect the rules of the board though. It is the only decent thing to do. I thought Liberals stood for decency in Canada. (Don't attack me again, I have had enough of it.)

Speaking of respect and common decency, who said the following?

The Liberal party has "been found guilty of breaking every conceivable law in the province of Quebec with the help of organized crime..."

Does that statement show respect and common decency?  Is the statement true?

If the statement is not true, what does it say about the person who uttered it?

Calling it hyperbole does not, of course, make the statement true.

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