BeaverFever Posted October 31, 2022 Report Posted October 31, 2022 NY Times headline from 2025 "America's emerging dictatorship has liberals on edge. But for some, the stability and absence of hard choices is a welcome change." Dante Atkins, a progressive communicator, and strategist, and principal at Atkins Strategies, laid out a plausible scenario for an American dictatorship. He wrote it as a New York Times story from 2025. It appeared originally on Twitter, and we are running it here with his kind permission. June 19, 2025 It happened imperceptibly, and then all at once. After a hotly contested 2024 election in which incumbent President Joe Biden carried the national popular vote by 9 million votes and appeared to carry the vote in states representing more than the 270 electoral votes necessary, it appeared that Mr. Biden was on his way to serving a second term. Instead, an unpredictable series of events has led to a dramatic change in the American form of government. …First, Republican Secretaries of State and legislatures in states carried by Joe Biden refused to certify Mr. Biden's apparent wins in Georgia, Pennsylvania, Michigan, and Wisconsin, throwing the electoral count into doubt. In the ensuing landmark case before the Supreme Court, "Biden v. Wisconsin," Justice Thomas, writing for the 5-4 majority, held that under the newly adopted Independent Legislature Theory, neither federal nor state courts had the authority to challenge actions decided by state legislatures, who were then free to submit slates of electors chosen by legislatures themselves, rather than by voters. ….In practice, this has led to a situation that was once unthinkable: an acting President of the United States serving an indefinite term of office whose successor is chosen exclusively by activists and delegates from the ruling political party. …While the political battle rages between elected leaders and committees of both parties, the response from the average voter is more muted. At a truck stop diner outside of Columbus, Ohio, Jeremy Williams, 55, said that these changes could make things easier. "I liked Trump before and I like Trump now, so I trust him to run the country and make the best decisions," said Williams. And when asked about America's cherished tradition of quadrennial democratic elections. Mr. Williams demurred. "Voting for president is hard because you don't really know the people you're choosing. But I know Trump and I like him, so that's one less thing to think about," said Williams. Democrats are less convinced.…. https://boingboing.net/2022/10/30/ny-times-headline-from-2025-americas-emerging-dictatorship-has-liberals-on-edge-but-for-some-the-stability-and-absence-of-hard-choices-is-a-welcome-change.html 2 Quote
robosmith Posted October 31, 2022 Report Posted October 31, 2022 Not really unpredictable if you're paying attention. But like last time, it's entirely possible that Republicans are too incompetent to succeed with THEIR PLAN. Quote
MajorJo Posted October 31, 2022 Report Posted October 31, 2022 Trump is so bad it makes me feel sick that anyone with brains voted for him... But I don't think Hilary was very better at all... maybe a little bit. Quote
Nationalist Posted October 31, 2022 Report Posted October 31, 2022 LOL...such fanatical desperation. Quote Its so lonely in m'saddle since m'horse died.
robosmith Posted October 31, 2022 Report Posted October 31, 2022 2 hours ago, Nationalist said: LOL...such fanatical desperation. Yep, Republicans losing the popular vote for POTUS every time but once in the last 30 years has made them desperate enough to resort to anti-democratic methods. Quote
Nationalist Posted October 31, 2022 Report Posted October 31, 2022 2 hours ago, robosmith said: Yep, Republicans losing the popular vote for POTUS every time but once in the last 30 years has made them desperate enough to resort to anti-democratic methods. Anti-democratic methods like what? No kidding man...you're embarrassing yourself now. Quote Its so lonely in m'saddle since m'horse died.
ironstone Posted October 31, 2022 Report Posted October 31, 2022 4 hours ago, robosmith said: Yep, Republicans losing the popular vote for POTUS every time but once in the last 30 years has made them desperate enough to resort to anti-democratic methods. Constitutional republic. It's not decided by the popular vote. This point has been made many times in this forum yet nobody on the left seems to understand it. 1 Quote "Socialism in general has a record of failure so blatant that only an intellectual could ignore or evade it." Thomas Sowell
BeaverFever Posted October 31, 2022 Author Report Posted October 31, 2022 (edited) 2 hours ago, Nationalist said: Anti-democratic methods like what? No kidding man...you're embarrassing yourself now. The “Independent State Legislature” Theory is something Republicans are actively pushing through the courts. It argues that state government is supreme to all laws and courts and that, among other things it is the state legislature alone that decides which candidates get their electoral votes, not the citizens. This would allow Republican controlled states to simply always declare Republicans the winner no matter the voting results. US Supreme Court opens term with a case that could redefine originalism … The case is Moore v. Harper, and the doctrine at issue is called the “independent state legislature theory.” The case concerns gerrymandering in North Carolina by the Republican-majority legislature. The N.C. Supreme Court ruled that it was an “egregious and intentional partisan gerrymander” put in place to promote the Republican Party. Republicans have now appealed to the U.S. Supreme Court. Before Roe v. Wade was overturned, I wouldn’t have thought the court would even hear this case, but times have changed. N.C. legislators are arguing that the “free elections” clause of the U.S. Constitution gives state legislatures the power to control everything related to federal elections without being subject to judicial review and without even having to follow their own state constitutions. The only limitation on a state legislature would have to come directly from Congress. Think about what this would mean. As Eliza Sweren-Becker and Ethan Herenstein of the Brennan Center for Justice point out, if the Supreme Court accepts this theory, it would “throw elections into chaos.” Gerrymandering could not be reviewed at any level within the state. Any election laws that were enacted by ballot initiatives would immediately be voided. State administrative regulations on voter registration, early voting and mail-in voting would not stand. State legislatures could even establish partisan rules for counting votes. https://www.postandcourier.com/opinion/commentary/stevens-us-supreme-court-opens-term-with-a-case-that-could-redefine-originalism/article_9103eaac-401d-11ed-8a24-5318af4386d4.html Edited October 31, 2022 by BeaverFever Quote
robosmith Posted October 31, 2022 Report Posted October 31, 2022 2 hours ago, Nationalist said: Anti-democratic methods like what? No kidding man...you're embarrassing yourself now. Like state legislatures passing laws saying they get to decide who wins instead of the voters. You NOT KNOWING what's going on is YOUR EMBARRASSMENT, NOT MINE. 1 Quote
robosmith Posted October 31, 2022 Report Posted October 31, 2022 20 minutes ago, ironstone said: Constitutional republic. It's not decided by the popular vote. This point has been made many times in this forum yet nobody on the left seems to understand it. Democratic republic. Representatives are chosen by the popular vote. Only POTUS is chosen by the EC, but the EC is mandated to be chosen by the popular vote in every state. Quote
Nationalist Posted October 31, 2022 Report Posted October 31, 2022 17 minutes ago, BeaverFever said: The “Independent State Legislature” Theory is something Republicans are actively pushing through the courts. It argues that state government is supreme to all laws and courts and that, among other things it is the state legislature alone that decides which candidates get their electoral votes, not the citizens. This would allow Republican controlled states to simply always declare Republicans the winner no matter the voting results. US Supreme Court opens term with a case that could redefine originalism … The case is Moore v. Harper, and the doctrine at issue is called the “independent state legislature theory.” The case concerns gerrymandering in North Carolina by the Republican-majority legislature. The N.C. Supreme Court ruled that it was an “egregious and intentional partisan gerrymander” put in place to promote the Republican Party. Republicans have now appealed to the U.S. Supreme Court. Before Roe v. Wade was overturned, I wouldn’t have thought the court would even hear this case, but times have changed. N.C. legislators are arguing that the “free elections” clause of the U.S. Constitution gives state legislatures the power to control everything related to federal elections without being subject to judicial review and without even having to follow their own state constitutions. The only limitation on a state legislature would have to come directly from Congress. Think about what this would mean. As Eliza Sweren-Becker and Ethan Herenstein of the Brennan Center for Justice point out, if the Supreme Court accepts this theory, it would “throw elections into chaos.” Gerrymandering could not be reviewed at any level within the state. Any election laws that were enacted by ballot initiatives would immediately be voided. State administrative regulations on voter registration, early voting and mail-in voting would not stand. State legislatures could even establish partisan rules for counting votes. https://www.postandcourier.com/opinion/commentary/stevens-us-supreme-court-opens-term-with-a-case-that-could-redefine-originalism/article_9103eaac-401d-11ed-8a24-5318af4386d4.html Lol...what a complete warping of reality... Quote Its so lonely in m'saddle since m'horse died.
Nationalist Posted October 31, 2022 Report Posted October 31, 2022 14 minutes ago, robosmith said: Like state legislatures passing laws saying they get to decide who wins instead of the voters. You NOT KNOWING what's going on is YOUR EMBARRASSMENT, NOT MINE. Dude...don't tell anyone but... The law happens to give the states the power to decide the rules for a federal election in their state and if I'm not mistaken...they have always sent their own delegates to report the election outcomes. Don't be so childish. Quote Its so lonely in m'saddle since m'horse died.
ironstone Posted October 31, 2022 Report Posted October 31, 2022 14 minutes ago, robosmith said: Democratic republic. Representatives are chosen by the popular vote. Only POTUS is chosen by the EC, but the EC is mandated to be chosen by the popular vote in every state. Is the United States a Republic? (constitutionus.com) Constitutional Republic - Definition, Examples, Cases, Processes (legaldictionary.net) I keep reading that the US is defined as a Constitutional Republic to be specific. Not to be confused with the Democratic Republic of Congo. More representation for the smaller states. It's explained very nicely and simply here by Charlie Kirk. 1 Quote "Socialism in general has a record of failure so blatant that only an intellectual could ignore or evade it." Thomas Sowell
robosmith Posted October 31, 2022 Report Posted October 31, 2022 45 minutes ago, ironstone said: Is the United States a Republic? (constitutionus.com) Constitutional Republic - Definition, Examples, Cases, Processes (legaldictionary.net) I keep reading that the US is defined as a Constitutional Republic to be specific. Not to be confused with the Democratic Republic of Congo. More representation for the smaller states. It's explained very nicely and simply here by Charlie Kirk. Kirk is a right wing activist and extremist. Our American Government Quote The Constitution establishes a federal democratic republic form of government. That is, we have an indivisible union of 50 sovereign States. It is a democracy because people govern themselves. It is representative because people choose elected officials by free and secret ballot. Quote
Nationalist Posted October 31, 2022 Report Posted October 31, 2022 5 minutes ago, robosmith said: Kirk is a right wing activist and extremist. Our American Government Your point being? Quote Its so lonely in m'saddle since m'horse died.
robosmith Posted October 31, 2022 Report Posted October 31, 2022 53 minutes ago, Nationalist said: Dude...don't tell anyone but... The law happens to give the states the power to decide the rules for a federal election in their state and if I'm not mistaken...they have always sent their own delegates to report the election outcomes. Don't be so childish. You ARE mistaken. The EC representatives are required by law to be assigned according to the popular vote in ALL states. That is democratic. Republicans are SEEKING to change that, independent of their state constitution, review by their courts, and VETO by their governor, as described ABOVE in BeaverFeaver's post on Moore v. Harper currently being heard by SCOTUS. 1 Quote
robosmith Posted October 31, 2022 Report Posted October 31, 2022 Just now, Nationalist said: Your point being? His opinion is highly biased. We are a democratic republic because our representatives are ELECTED by the people, as specified in the CONSTITUTION. Quote
Nationalist Posted October 31, 2022 Report Posted October 31, 2022 2 minutes ago, robosmith said: You ARE mistaken. The EC representatives are required by law to be assigned according to the popular vote in ALL states. That is democratic. Republicans are SEEKING to change that, independent of their state constitution, review by their courts, and VETO by their governor, as described ABOVE in BeaverFeaver's post on Moore v. Harper currently being heard by SCOTUS. Interesting. I'm sure there's more to it than that, but we'll see how the SCOTUS rules. Quote Its so lonely in m'saddle since m'horse died.
Nationalist Posted October 31, 2022 Report Posted October 31, 2022 3 minutes ago, robosmith said: His opinion is highly biased. We are a democratic republic because our representatives are ELECTED by the people, as specified in the CONSTITUTION. And your opinion isn't? 1 Quote Its so lonely in m'saddle since m'horse died.
ironstone Posted October 31, 2022 Report Posted October 31, 2022 19 minutes ago, robosmith said: Kirk is a right wing activist and extremist. Our American Government Can you cite some examples of things he has said that you would categorize as extremist? 1 Quote "Socialism in general has a record of failure so blatant that only an intellectual could ignore or evade it." Thomas Sowell
BeaverFever Posted November 1, 2022 Author Report Posted November 1, 2022 4 hours ago, Nationalist said: Lol...what a complete warping of reality... So then if you know better why don’t YOU explain what independent legislature theory is then and why Republicans are pushing it. . Oh and when you do pretend you didn’t just learn about it now from me. Quote
Nationalist Posted November 1, 2022 Report Posted November 1, 2022 8 hours ago, BeaverFever said: So then if you know better why don’t YOU explain what independent legislature theory is then and why Republicans are pushing it. . Oh and when you do pretend you didn’t just learn about it now from me. I have no intention of climbing down a rabbit hole with a rodent like you...Beaver. Quote Its so lonely in m'saddle since m'horse died.
robosmith Posted November 1, 2022 Report Posted November 1, 2022 18 hours ago, Nationalist said: And your opinion isn't? My opinion easily refutes his because neither of us are experts. Quote
robosmith Posted November 1, 2022 Report Posted November 1, 2022 (edited) 18 hours ago, ironstone said: Can you cite some examples of things he has said that you would categorize as extremist? Charlie Kirk Says a ‘Patriot’ Should Bail Out Alleged Paul Pelosi Attacker Edited November 1, 2022 by robosmith 1 Quote
Nationalist Posted November 1, 2022 Report Posted November 1, 2022 1 hour ago, robosmith said: My opinion easily refutes his because neither of us are experts. hilarious. Quote Its so lonely in m'saddle since m'horse died.
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