Abortion should be banned in the United States (my first topic).

[Aristides]

Just now, Iteration said:

I am not sure why you are responding with this. I am pro-life, and yes, I believe being pro choice is silly. Do you have an argument for the pro choice position, yes or no?

You don't understand what pro choice means. What I personally think about abortion is neither here nor there, I just respect the right of others to make their own choices. 

[Dougie93]

3 minutes ago, Iteration said:

Do you believe what is currently legal determines what ought to be done? 

I believe the states should decide

if there is a two thirds majority in both houses of Congress to amend the constitution either way

I would abide by that as well

[Moonlight Graham]

2 hours ago, Rebound said:

There is no clear delineation, but do you propose jailing men for masturbation?

Should we pass a law mandating that all women and men must engage in as much unprotected sex as possible from the instant of fertility , since any missed opportunity is a lost life? 
 

Why is unborn life more significant than the lives of oppressed foreigners who come to America to flee oppression, and get vilified and caged instead? The Bible exhorts us repeatedly to welcome foreigners into our land, but we leave them to die and we worship the unborn instead?

 

Abortion is not a pleasant procedure. It’s not what people want to do. They do not plan for it or wish it. But women do find themselves in these situations, and it is often married women who do, and unintended pregnancies can destroy their existing family or make life otherwise unlivable for them and their offspring. It’s not fortunate, but that’s how life is. 

Abortion is most unpleasant for the fetus that is being violently assaulted and killed.  It's odd that you feel worse for the mother/couple than the human life that is being killed.

[Moonlight Graham]

1 minute ago, Aristides said:

You don't understand what pro choice means. What I personally think about abortion is neither here nor there, I just respect the right of others to make their own choices. 

Can I choose to punch a baby in the face?  The issue here is that abortion choices affect more than the mother.

[Aristides]

1 minute ago, Moonlight Graham said:

Can I choose to punch a baby in the face?  The issue here is that abortion choices affect more than the mother.

Like I said, no one is going to change their mind on this.

[Iteration]

Quote

You don't understand what pro choice means. What I personally think about abortion is neither here nor there, I just respect the right of others to make their own choices. 

Okay, should an unborn child have rights, yes or no? 

[Moonlight Graham]

1 minute ago, Aristides said:

Like I said, no one is going to change their mind on this.

That has no bearing on the ethics of it.

People want to have sex, sometimes unprotected or not properly protected, and then murder fetuses when they screw up.

[Iteration]

I don't understand why people would be so scared just to give an argument for the legality of abortion. 

[Aristides]

Just now, Iteration said:

Okay, should an unborn child have rights, yes or no? 

Not a big listener are you. Choice is not about imposing your views on others. My views on abortion are my business and not the issue, it's whether I have the right to impose them on others. I do not.

[Moonlight Graham]

1 minute ago, Aristides said:

Not a big listener are you. Choice is not about imposing your views on others. My views on abortion are my business and not the issue, it's whether I have the right to impose them on others. I do not.

Why does a pro-choice person get to impose their views on unborn babies?

[Dougie93]

America itself is a religion

if you are want to amend the American gospel

you need to amend the constitution with a two thirds majority in both houses of Congress

all the Supreme Court has said so far, is that that 14th amendment is not a right to abortion

the Justices have not said that such a right could not exist

all they have said is that it is not currently written into the constitution

so by the Tenth Amendment, that automatically falls back to the state legislatures to decide

America is functioning exactly as it was designed to on this issue

so all is well therein, near as I can see

[Iteration]

Quote

Not a big listener are you. Choice is not about imposing your views on others. My views on abortion are my business and not the issue, it's whether I have the right to impose them on others. I do not.

Okay, that is fine. So presumably, you would want a society where people do not impose their views on others. Sure, I am asking for that normative ethic. You believe abortion should be legal, thus, I am asking based on this, if you believe in unborn should have rights under than view. 

[Iteration]

I am asking about your concept of rights, so I am not sure why you are dodging the question. What determines whether or not someone should have rights? 

[Aristides]

1 minute ago, Iteration said:

I am asking about your concept of rights, so I am not sure why you are dodging the question. What determines whether or not someone should have rights? 

The whole argument revolves around when and if a foetus becomes a person. You can "debate" this till the cows come home and I guarantee you, not one person here will change their mind. 

[Dougie93]

3 minutes ago, Iteration said:

I am asking about your concept of rights, so I am not sure why you are dodging the question. What determines whether or not someone should have rights? 

the SCOTUS has determined that it is not written into the Bill of Rights

thus it falls to the states to decide

when you invoke "Inalienable rights endowed by the Creator"

that is not actually federal

those are states rights

[Iteration]

Quote

The whole argument revolves around when and if a foetus becomes a person. You can "debate" this till the cows come home and I guarantee you, not one person here will change their mind. 

First, I do not care if you change your mind or not. My goal to to argue against the pro choice view. So if you believe it is personhood that determines whether or not someone has rights, what is the standard that determines whether or not someone is a person? 

[Iteration]

Quote

the SCOTUS has determined...

Do you believe that what is legal currently determines what ought to be legal? 

[Dougie93]

1 minute ago, Iteration said:

Do you believe that what is legal currently determines what ought to be legal? 

the SCOTUS has not actually determined that either way

what the SCOTUS has said, is that if you want to make something legal, or illegal, you have to follow the process

and I agree with that

[Iteration]

Okay, so let's try and repeat the question, because I am not seeing an answer. 

Do you believe that what is currently legal determines what ought to be legal? 

[Dougie93]

4 minutes ago, Iteration said:

Okay, so let's try and repeat the question, because I am not seeing an answer. 

Do you believe that what is currently legal determines what ought to be legal? 

as a Republican in the classical sense, thus charged to preserve the Union at any cost

I would not impose my personal beliefs over & above the constitution on this issue

I am satisfied that the constitution is being adhered to in this case,

thanks to a 6-3 conservative majority at the SCOTUS

thus I will let the chips fall where they may

as I am perfectly happy for the states to decide what is legal or not within their own jurisdictions

[Aristides]

19 minutes ago, Iteration said:

First, I do not care if you change your mind or not.

Of course you do, that's why you are here.

Quote

My goal to to argue against the pro choice view. So if you believe it is personhood that determines whether or not someone has rights, what is the standard that determines whether or not someone is a person? 

In Canada there is no abortion law but the CMA says a foetus is viable after 20 weeks (with a lot of help in a NICU) and doctors will not do abortions in the third trimester unless the mother's life is in imminent danger or the foetus is badly deformed. That's the way it is and I don't pretend to know better.

[Iteration]

@Dougie93

Let's see if we can repeat the question because I am not sure why you are dodging it. 
Do you believe that what is currently legal determines what ought to be legal? Yes or no? 

Edited October 9, 2022 by Iteration

[Iteration]

@Aristides

Let me see if I can repeat the question that you did not answer. You stated that personhood determines whether or not someone has rights. My question is, what determines whether or not someone is a person? 

[Dougie93]

4 minutes ago, Iteration said:

@Dougie93

Let's see if we can repeat the question because I am not sure why you are dodging it. 
Do you believe that what is currently legal determines what ought to be legal? Yes or no? 

I am not dodging anything

you are dodging the issue

which is that there is no unitary law in America

there is federal law & state law

the SCOTUS has simply sent this issue back to the states to determine, as per the 10th amendment

that is what ought to be, in terms of jurisprudence, by reading of the constitution

[Dougie93]

29 minutes ago, Aristides said:

 

In Canada there is no abortion law

that is essentially what the SCOTUS has said for America as well

there is no federal abortion law in America

so it falls to the states to decide

a Canadian province could write a law regarding abortion as well, there is nothing precluding that in Canada