The Color of Crime?

[Argus]

Things are far too dull here lately.

I came across a study mentioned on the net and have tried to find out anything about the truthfulness of it. It is a US study based on US crime statistics. There appears to be some question about the motivation of the head of the organization which is behind the study, and a lot of name-calling about him. But I have not yet found any challenge to the veracity of the study itself or the statistics it cites.

Among those statistics:

* “… between 2001 and 2003, blacks were 39 times more likely to commit violent crimes against whites than the reverse, and 136 times more likely to commit robbery.”

* Between 2001 and 2003, blacks committed, on average, 15,400 black-on-white rapes per year, while whites averaged only 900 white-on-black rapes per year.

* “Of the nearly 770,000 violent interracial crimes committed every year involving blacks and whites, blacks commit 85 percent and whites commit 15 percent.”

* “Blacks commit more violent crime against whites than against blacks. Forty-five percent of their victims are white, 43 percent are black, and 10 percent are Hispanic. When whites commit violent crime, only three percent of their victims are black.”

* Far from being guilty of “racially profiling” innocent blacks, police have been exercising racial bias on behalf of blacks, arresting fewer blacks than their proportion of criminals: “… blacks who committed crimes that were reported to the police were 26 percent less likely to be arrested than people of other races who committed the same crimes.”

* The single greatest indicator of an area’s crime rate is not poverty or education, but race and ethnicity. Even when one controls for income and education, the black crime rate is much higher than the white rate.

Color of Crime

Accuracy in Media

There are several reasons for interest in this story. First, if true, it's interesting how it's gone unreported and ignored by the major media. Second, it would pretty much do away with the argument of racial profiling being a terrible thing. Third, we know, although the government refuses to keep statistics, that the situation in Canada is similar to that in the US. So should we be exploring cultural motivators and other factors behind such crime as a way to counter it? I don't believe behaviour is governed by genetics or race so much as by cultural conditioning. What about Black culture, presuming it is a distinct and seperate culture from the mainstream, results in a higher crime rate?

Or as one of those who responded to statistics on the link above stated:

"Crime-rate figures may indicate common factors. I suggest skin colour is a misleading tool as it hides the more accurate figures of ethnicity, cultural-background, and social-environment rather than a general sterotype for racial propensity to crime. This is what I would rather see here. A more educated approach.

A Black Man does not exist any more than a White Man exist. The French will behave differently to an Australia as a Zimbabwian to a Nigerian."

Is it possible to keep to facts, or at least, the actual topic and leave out ad hominums?

[PocketRocket]

Just to address this at face value, from the title of the thread.....

Is race a principal cause of crime?

I would have to say no.

Although some races tend to have higher rates of crime, just being a member of such a race is not a cause in and of itself.

This reminds me of an incident several years back.

I spent almost 20 years on the road as a touring musician.

One week we were playing way up in Moosonee, on the James Bay coast.

Had to load our equipment from our truck into a train, and then have it transported via a couple pickup trucks from the Moosonee train station to the arena there.

At the gig, the population in the arena was about 95% Native.

There were 3 trouble-makers in the crowd that night.

All 3 were white guys.

Maybe it's just being part of being a minority in any given area that causes people to act out-of-whack.

Hard to say.

I have done many gigs on reserves elsewhere over the years, and have noticed a similar trend. Natives, who are the majority, all well behaved, whites, the minority, acting up and stirring up shit.

Strange.

[Leafless]

I think society is entitled to know especially in a mult- cultural society who the official chronic offenders are and what risk they represent to society.

I certainly believe certain cultures are more prone to crime and believe this is due mainly to early marriage, a lax or immature and irresponsible parenting or raised by dysfunctional parents.

I think something must be done in our society to 'stop' unwanted children or couples who cannot afford to properly raise children or do not posess the necessary degree of intelligence to do the job properly.

[PocketRocket]

I think something must be done in our society to 'stop' unwanted children

We have this thing now called "abortion"....

and this other thing called "adoption".

or couples who cannot afford to properly raise children

Some of the best behaved children I've ever seen come from homes in which, to feed the family, pennies were pinched so hard that they were turned into copper foil.

The state of a family's finances should not be a determining factor in how well behaved a child is.

or do not posess the necessary degree of intelligence to do the job properly.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Intelligence, or temperment.

Unfortunately, this rather draconian suggestion would not likely be adopted.

I have a niece who is, shall we say, not playing with a full deck.

She has two kids.

The first was taken away by my niece's mother.

I don't know where the second is as I have not had contact with them for a couple years.

But thankfully my niece got her tubes tied after the second kid (at the insistence of her mother).

I shudder to think how those kids would turn out if my niece were to raise them.

[Argus]

I think society is entitled to know especially in a mult- cultural society who the official chronic offenders are and what risk they represent to society.

I certainly believe certain cultures are more prone to crime and believe this is due mainly to early marriage, a lax or immature and irresponsible parenting or raised by dysfunctional parents.

Let me give an example of this, in response to the oft-repeated claim that measurable crime statistics on race will simply encourage racism while doing no good.

In the case in Toronto, the Jamaican origin of the offenders is known. Jamaicans tend to be far more prone to crime than almost any other subgroup in Canada. Is it because of Black skin? Of course not.

Several of the articles I've read on the subject speak about the origins of the Jamaican community in Canada. It started out with women who were single mothers coming across as housekeepres and maids. After many years, they won citizenship and the right to sponsor family. But by then their kids had been away from them for many years, usually living with grandparents (grandmothers, really) who they considered their real mother. Suddenly they are taken away from everything and eveyrone they know and thrust into this cold, unknown land to live with a mother they barely remember. Their education levels are not up to par, and their behaviour is not considered acceptable. They band together, they hang around, they get into trouble, they hate school because they're behind and drop out, they get into more trouble. Etc. etc. A sociological origin to the criminal behaviour of a cultural group which could and ought to be addressed, but never has been because you first need to admit that there is a problem. And the liberals won't admit it.

[tml12]

I think society is entitled to know especially in a mult- cultural society who the official chronic offenders are and what risk they represent to society.

I certainly believe certain cultures are more prone to crime and believe this is due mainly to early marriage, a lax or immature and irresponsible parenting or raised by dysfunctional parents.

I think something must be done in our society to 'stop' unwanted children or couples who cannot afford to properly raise children or do not posess the necessary degree of intelligence to do the job properly.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Perhaps the multicultural society is what is most at fault.

I mean, if immigrants from a country (say "X") wanted to live in an "X" community, they could have stayed in their own country.

As we saw in France and in the UK, when you ghettoize people and put them in their own communities, they feel left out and they rebel against the society that put them there.

As an Arab friend of mine said: "Many of these kids were born in France, so the Arab countries don't consider them naturally part of their parent's Arab country. Yet the French see them as immigrants, not actually French. So, though it is wrong, what do you expect them to do? How do you expect them to feel?"

[crazymf]

Just to address this at face value, from the title of the thread.....

Is race a principal cause of crime?

I would have to say no.

Although some races tend to have higher rates of crime, just being a member of such a race is not a cause in and of itself.

This reminds me of an incident several years back.

I spent almost 20 years on the road as a touring musician.

One week we were playing way up in Moosonee, on the James Bay coast.

Had to load our equipment from our truck into a train, and then have it transported via a couple pickup trucks from the Moosonee train station to the arena there.

At the gig, the population in the arena was about 95% Native.

There were 3 trouble-makers in the crowd that night.

All 3 were white guys.

Maybe it's just being part of being a minority in any given area that causes people to act out-of-whack.

Hard to say.

I have done many gigs on reserves elsewhere over the years, and have noticed a similar trend. Natives, who are the majority, all well behaved, whites, the minority, acting up and stirring up shit.

Strange.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Touche' brother. I too have spent many years out there road warrioring. Mostly country bands. Natives are hard on themselves generally, but don't stir the pot to the band much, if you have a fiddle. Don't go to an Indian bar without a fiddle. Don't do it. Doesn't work. Besides, one of them will bring one and you'll be stumbling along to him coming in one beat early all night. Makes for lots of work. If you drink a lot, it begins to make sense, but not before.

Anyway, white young males usually are the ones causing violence in a mixed crowd. Indians love music and will give you their last dollar to hear 'Blue Eyes Crying in The Rain', just one more time, again and again.

[sharkman]

I believe behaviours are learned and not inherent to race. The black culture n the U.S. is very unhealthy, with poverty, unemployment, drugs, racism and lack of hope all contributing to the problem. It's a troubling report, and the usual response to the bearer of politically incorrect news is to shoot the messenger.

[tml12]

I believe behaviours are learned and not inherent to race.  The black culture n the U.S. is very unhealthy, with poverty, unemployment, drugs, racism and lack of hope all contributing to the problem.  It's a troubling report, and the usual response to the bearer of politically incorrect news is to shoot the messenger.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Of course. Those who want to change the current wonderful situation, i.e. "projects", is a racist!!!

[Guest eureka]

I posted something in another thread that bears on this. Professor W.J. Wilson of Harvard found in his studies of the urban poor, that the rate of violent crime in young Blacks was no higher than for Whites among the employed. The rate was much higher as a group but employment was the factor that determined the crime rate.

There may have been information in the book that is relevant to the other questions but I don't recall them. It was some time ago that I read it.

Also, is it not possible that those percentages may not seem so significant if it is remembered that Whites outnumber Blacks by about 10 to 1 in the US. Indeed, given the closeness of a couple, it seems that Black on Black crime may be more prevalent.

The more extreme figures are simply not believable. 900 rapes by Whites on Blacks is absurd. Of course, it may be that American Whites have a collective guilt feeling that deters them from that crime. After a couple of centuries of routine rape of Blacks, they may have decided to stick to Whites for a time.

[Riverwind]

I posted something in another thread that bears on this. Professor W.J. Wilson of Harvard found in his studies of the urban poor, that the rate of violent crime in young Blacks was no higher than for Whites among the employed. The rate was much higher as a group but employment was the factor that determined the crime rate.

There is no significant population of blacks in Vancouver: the poor tend to be a mixture of whites and natives. However, there have been an alarming number of gang shootings in the indo-canadian community. These cases are interesting because, indo-canadians in Vancouver are not a dispossesed minority living in ghettos - for the most part they are middle class families with both parents present and accounted for. Yet, we have a gang problem. There are many theories about how some unique aspects of indian culture contributed to this situation, however, no one really knows for sure.

The situation in Vancouver shows that you cannot link these kinds of problems to race or poverty. My belief is that anytime these kinds of problems become a problem in a community then it is a sign that there is a problem with the culture of the community. This also means that these problems cannot be solved until that community is willing to acknowledge that they are part of the problem and work to address those issues. Anyone who simply wants to blame the problems on racism and poverty will simply ensure the problems will never be solved.

[Argus]

Also, is it not possible that those percentages may not seem so significant if it is remembered that Whites outnumber Blacks by about 10 to 1 in the US. Indeed, given the closeness of a couple, it seems that Black on Black crime may be more prevalent.

The more extreme figures are simply not believable. 900 rapes by Whites on Blacks is absurd. Of course, it may be that American Whites have a collective guilt feeling that deters them from that crime. After a couple of centuries of routine rape of Blacks, they may have decided to stick to Whites for a time.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I have tried to find statistics on Black vs White rape on the internet but it's extremely difficult. I have heard the claim that interracial rapes are overwhelmingly black on white many, many times, and seen other such studies which made the same claim (none handy at the moment). Unfortunately, the only sites on the internet which logically, would have much interest in publicizing that sort of thing are racist sites, which are not reliable for that reason. It does make sense, however. Most Blacks in the US still live in largely Black communities. Not many white guys are going to venture there to date them, much less rape them.

Anecdotally, every time I see an interracial couple it is a Black man and White woman, not the reverse. I have never seen the reserve in my life, come to think about it. It may be that culturallly speaking, White men don't have that much interest in Black women. That is, their features are not the type broadly publicized as "attractive" by our society. We've observed that sort of complaint from Black women, that Black men prefer Black women with lighter skin and more Eureasian or Arabic features.

[August1991]

We discussed this here, sort of.

You can get some stats here: Attorney-General California

[Black Dog]

Given that the concept of race is entirely a social construct, then referring to race as a cause of crime is problematic.

It's a troubling report, and the usual response to the bearer of politically incorrect news is to shoot the messenger.

There's been plenty written on race and crime. The subject is not taboo. However, this study isn't adding anything of value to the debate. It fails to take any social factors into account. Instead, we are led to conclusion that blacks and Hispanics are inherently more violent based on their skin colour. Which, based on "American Renassiance" (and teh comments on the blog above) is the desired result.

[theloniusfleabag]

Dear Argus,

Anecdotally, every time I see an interracial couple it is a Black man and White woman, not the reverse. I have never seen the reserve in my life, come to think about it.

I am friends with (or family of) 4 inter-racial couples, and only one, a cousin, is a female married to a black man. Really, really black, from Nairobi. Another male cousin married a girl from Trinidad, (they live in Toronto). With the other friends, I don't know the background.

Regarding the question "Is race a principal cause of crime?", the answer is absolutely no. Age and gender are the principal factors, but are no more 'the cause' than race.

[Argus]

Regarding the question "Is race a principal cause of crime?", the answer is absolutely no. Age and gender are the principal factors, but are no more 'the cause' than race.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I don't think anyone believes that blacks are genetically inclined towards crime more than whites. Nor do I believe anyone sane thinks skin pigmentation causes criminal behaviour. However, there is a distinct correlation between blacks and crimes in this and every other western country with a signiciant black population. Is that mere coincidence? Re-stating from one of the posted links

"Crime-rate figures may indicate common factors. I suggest skin colour is a misleading tool as it hides the more accurate figures of ethnicity, cultural-background, and social-environment rather than a general sterotype for racial propensity to crime. This is what I would rather see here. A more educated approach.

A Black Man does not exist any more than a White Man exist. The French will behave differently to an Australia as a Zimbabwian to a Nigerian."

So is there something about the cultural background of Blacks, or socioenvironmental factors of black culture which leads to a higher propensity towards crime? According to the statistics presented, or at least, the statement of those statistics, even controlling for economic factors blacks, ie in a middle class neighborhood will commit more crimes than whites or asians in the same socioeconomic class.

Oh, and btw, didn't bother making much of a search, but found this:

Although mixed-race partnering has increased, the United States still shows huge disparities between black male and black female endogamy statistics. The 1990 Census reports that 17.6% of black marriages occur with whites. Yet, it is found that black men are 2.5 times more likely to be married to a white woman than a black woman to a white man. Indeed, when racial group size is controlled, white women are most likely to participate in exogamy.

[RB]

Anecdotally, every time I see an interracial couple it is a Black man and White woman, not the reverse. I have never seen the reserve in my life, come to think about it. It may be that culturallly speaking, White men don't have that much interest in Black women. That is, their features are not the type broadly publicized as "attractive" by our society. We've observed that sort of complaint from Black women, that Black men prefer Black women with lighter skin and more Eureasian or Arabic features.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I believe that colored women have prioritized race as a starting point of their self-identification oppose to gender as a "black woman".

My opinion is based on the reasoning that "whites" and "white racism" define and treats all color folks as "black".

An example in history is that, while a white woman and her white man goes out of the house to work, the black woman stayed behind and looked after their homes and children. I question how did feminism got to be an all white experience when we reflect on women's experiences.

Anyway, black women were made invisible and their experiences have disappeared. So in defining the color woman, she has no identity and also she is being exploited.

The other reasoning as to why "Whiteman" has no encounters with black females is the very reason that black women has always worked. What I mean is there is no separation from public and private spheres for black woman.

But, we must also face that white woman are desirable mothers and sexual partners to both blacks and whites. Black middle class male can form alliances with white females to preserve economic privilege and are able to bond easily hence the increasing number of inter-racial marriages.

A color woman relates to white men via rejection, degradation and undesirability.

Furthermore, a white woman can freely attack a white man or a black man because of these special benefits for white women only. It is called white woman privilege.

Women of color have to confront this.

In the end, women of color have been unable to forge alliances with Whiteman and do not participate in the seduction dynamics.

[FTA Lawyer]

I think this whole issue is unnecessarily raised (not criticising you for doing it...just saying it's smoke and mirrors in my view).

Of course race does not cause crime. And if there are valid statistical correlations of some sort between race and crime...well, okay, I can accept that...it still strikes me as meaningless.

I don't mean to be gratuitously crass, but if you are anally raped in prison, do you really care about the color of the guy's skin?

Shouldn't we be expending efforts / resources on figuring out how to prevent people from being anally raped rather than noting their complexion in a standard deviation plot?

As a criminal lawyer, I can tell you that criminals truly are individuals and will in most cases immediately dismantle myths and stereotypes, even if they exhibit particular patterns of behaviour. That is to say, robbers act like robbers, rapists act like rapists...regardless (in large part) of their race.

FTA

[kimmy]

As a criminal lawyer, I can tell you that criminals truly are individuals and will in most cases immediately dismantle myths and stereotypes, even if they exhibit particular patterns of behaviour.  That is to say, robbers act like robbers, rapists act like rapists...regardless (in large part) of their race.

FTA

Yes, people are people and individuals can't be dealt with in stereotypes.

But in the bigger picture, doesn't avoiding a discussion of racial and cultural factors prevent us from figuring out *why* the statistics are so heavily skewed?

As Argus says, I don't think anybody here is suggesting that skin pigmentation determines criminal behaviour. So why *are* the statistics what they are? What causes it, and what can we do as a society to fix it?

-k

[Argus]

Shouldn't we be expending efforts / resources on figuring out how to prevent people from being anally raped rather than noting their complexion in a standard deviation plot?

If certain segments of the community are involved in a greatly disproportionate amount of crime, then it behooves us to examine the cultural factors at work which might be causing this level of criminality. Without noting and admitting to a problem how can the problem be addressed?

As a criminal lawyer, I can tell you that criminals truly are individuals and will in most cases immediately dismantle myths and stereotypes, even if they exhibit particular patterns of behaviour.  That is to say, robbers act like robbers, rapists act like rapists...regardless (in large part) of their race.

FTA

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

And yet, statistical abnormalities to the degree we see in regard to black crime are unexplainable except by some cultural/ethnic factor unique to that particular group. Thus if we're to address them we have to examine that group to see how such cultural factors might be eliminated or redressed. There are innumerable programs which seek to address specific cultural problems within minority communities. Why not one addressing crime? Because no one in authority wants to come out and admit that the Black community, or at least, some portion of it, has a problem with criminality.

I saw a Globe article once where a reporter sat all day in what was then a new thing, a special drug court in Toronto. The reporter observed that only about 2% of the defendants appearing before the judge that day were white. That says there is a problem within what is still, when we're speaking of visible minorities, the immigrant community. And I don't think anything has changed since then. Or am i wrong that virtually all those being murdered in Toronto are non-white, along with virtually all the murderers?

[Black Dog]

If certain segments of the community are involved in a greatly disproportionate amount of crime, then it behooves us to examine the cultural factors at work which might be causing this level of criminality. Without noting and admitting to a problem how can the problem be addressed?

Fair enough, but I get the nagging feeling that "examining the social factors at work" is not what the folks behind this study had in mind.

American Renaissance's "genteel rascism"

Reading through some of the material they have, it's not hard to see why groups like Stormfront and the National Alliance are drawn to A.R.

[PocketRocket]

Fair enough, but I get the nagging feeling that "examining the social factors at work" is not what the folks behind this study had in mind.

American Renaissance's "genteel rascism"

Reading through some of the material they have, it's not hard to see why groups like Stormfront and the National Alliance are drawn to A.R.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I think you got that right.

Checked out the link, and it held such informed, scientific hypotheses such as.......

During the 1996 conference, for instance, Canadian professor and race theorist Philippe Rushton lectured at length about the sexual differences among various races, arguing that blacks, while possessing smaller brains, reproduce at a faster rate due to the larger size of their sex organs.

(Uh, let's see now, black man has larger penis, but how long is a black woman's gestation period???

9 months???

Oh, well, I guess they CANNOT pop out kids faster after all.)

However, he must LOVE Asians, who are reputed to be somewhat less well-endowed. (DISCLAIMER: please take note of the word "reputed")

In fact, what would be his excuse for the population of China???

And then this little gem......

"Not to reinforce stereotypes," he has said elsewhere, "but it's a trade-off: more brain or more penis, you can't have everything."

No prizes for guessing how well-hung this particular "intellectual" is.

Other quotes from that link......

An AR book review declared that the New Testament's Great Commission "instructs believers to preach the Gospel to all nations -- not to invite them to settle in your neighborhood and marry your daughter. There was a time in the not too distant past when white people understood this."

There was also a time in the not-too-distant past when we burned witches.

And, of course, the ever delightful......

The civilization we as whites created in Europe and America could not have developed apart from the genetic endowment of the creating people, nor is there any reason to believe that the civilization can be successfully transmitted to a different people

Call this civilization??? Bosnia??? Herzegovina??? Chechnya??? Detroit???

As far as "civilizations" go, the civilization created by white men is a johnny-come-lately.

China's civilization goes back, WITH A WRITTEN HISTORY , for over 7,000 years. Japan's nearly as long.

I won't even start in about the ancient Egyptians, Aztecs, Incas, Greece, Rome, Mesopotamia etc etc etc, MOST of which were not societies founded by whites.

Hell, we can't even decide whether or not there really was a king named Arthur only 1,000 years ago.

In fact, up until only about 100 years ago, only a very small percentage of "white" population knew how to read and write.

But that's okay, we're white, we live in a wealthy nation founded by a few visionaries and a lot of hard work and luck, and being their distant descendents, that makes us superior to all others.

Reminds me of a member of another site I used to frequent, whose nickname ended in "nazi".

Apparently, according to him, the holocaust never occured.

If these supposed "intellectuals" were born and raised in a place like Bosnia, I wonder if they'd be quite so confident in the supremacy of the white race.

[Argus]

If certain segments of the community are involved in a greatly disproportionate amount of crime, then it behooves us to examine the cultural factors at work which might be causing this level of criminality. Without noting and admitting to a problem how can the problem be addressed?

Fair enough, but I get the nagging feeling that "examining the social factors at work" is not what the folks behind this study had in mind.

American Renaissance's "genteel rascism"

Reading through some of the material they have, it's not hard to see why groups like Stormfront and the National Alliance are drawn to A.R.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I'm aware of some questionable contacts and links with this group. But it's very difficult to tell how pervasive they are. After all, the fact that this or that questonable person attended meetings, or even gave lectures really doesn't tell me how such things are organized and whether they check out who attends. I did try to do some digging, but it seems there are only two groups of people who are interested in putting any kind of race based crime information on the internet, the Heritage Front crowd, who are, clearly, of little use, and the anti-racism crowd, who dismiss any link of any kind and blame everything on the police and racism. They are equally unhelpful. I specifically looked for information on this study in hopes of finding some web site or other which would question its findings, that is, would say the statistics they quote are wrong or misleading or taken out of context. I didn't find any. And most of what the study contains reinforces items I have previously found elsewhere from known, mainstream sites. And in any event, anyone who doubts there is a problem with regard to black crime need only examine the faces of the murder victims and those arrested on the front page of the Toronto Star every week.

[Black Dog]

I'm aware of some questionable contacts and links with this group. But it's very difficult to tell how pervasive they are. After all, the fact that this or that questonable person attended meetings, or even gave lectures really doesn't tell me how such things are organized and whether they check out who attends.

Dunno, it seems to me that the list of questionable characters includes the top people in the organization.

I specifically looked for information on this study in hopes of finding some web site or other which would question its findings, that is, would say the statistics they quote are wrong or misleading or taken out of context. I didn't find any. And most of what the study contains reinforces items I have previously found elsewhere from known, mainstream sites. And in any event, anyone who doubts there is a problem with regard to black crime need only examine the faces of the murder victims and those arrested on the front page of the Toronto Star every week.

I don't think anyone is questioning the conclusion that crime is a serious problem in the black community. But groups that dismiss racism or social factors are just as questionable who blame everything on rascism and social factors.

[FTA Lawyer]

As a criminal lawyer, I can tell you that criminals truly are individuals and will in most cases immediately dismantle myths and stereotypes, even if they exhibit particular patterns of behaviour.  That is to say, robbers act like robbers, rapists act like rapists...regardless (in large part) of their race.

FTA

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Yes, people are people and individuals can't be dealt with in stereotypes.

But in the bigger picture, doesn't avoiding a discussion of racial and cultural factors prevent us from figuring out *why* the statistics are so heavily skewed?

As Argus says, I don't think anybody here is suggesting that skin pigmentation determines criminal behaviour. So why *are* the statistics what they are? What causes it, and what can we do as a society to fix it?

-k

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Kimmy,

I hear you, and I'm not saying "hush hush, let's not point out the stats because it might anger people". I'm one of the first to be prepared to have such discussions.

Perhaps what my real point is here is so what if there is a statistical differentiation? If our goal is to have an even percentage of each ethnic group of the population in jail, then encouraging more white people to commit crime would actually achieve this goal...but that's silly.

The real goal is to reduce crime...if specific race-related measures can help do this, then we should be exploring them...but if at the end of the day we never see a less-skewed statistical picture, I'm not going to be bothered by that on its face.

FTA