Trump and his supporters supporting the NRA and gun lobby total madness.

[blackbird]

10 hours ago, Infidel Dog said:

That will never happen without totalitarianism. Maybe not even then. If you think it can, tell me how. If you can't, it's off the table.

Bullshit.

Only three percent of mass shootings (using the 4 or more hit rule) used assault rifles.

Hero Who Stopped Texas Gunman: I Couldn’t Have Stopped Him Without My AR-15

Armed woman kills man who fired rifle into crowd at West Virginia birthday party

It's pointless to debate with people who think more guns is the answer.  By the way there were 13 more mass shootings on this last Memorial Day weekend in the U.S.  The NRA and gun advocates claim that a good guy with a gun is the solution is a sick excuse and pure insanity.   In Uvalde Texas, where one guy with an AR-15 killed 19 children and 2 school teachers, there were about 19 "good" guys with guns who were prevented by their leading officer from going into the classroom to stop the shooter for around an hour.  So much for good guys with guns.   Your example of a woman with a gun shooting a bad guy with a gun is a very rare situation and does not in any way justify 337 million Americans having 900 million guns.  It is pure nonsense.  There is no human right to owning or possessing guns.  That is pure fiction.

Edited May 31, 2022 by blackbird

[Aristides]

The only reason Americans feel the need to carry a firearm is because they are afraid of the world around them. Every post you make just confirms that. Sorry, but I don't want to live in a world like that, no sane person does.  Americans are welcome to it.

[Infidel Dog]

13 minutes ago, blackbird said:

It's pointless to debate with people who think more guns is the answer. 

Don't then but I'd say preparedness is one possible solution when all others don't work.

But as to this:

Quote

In Uvalde Texas, where one guy with an AR-15 killed 19 children and 2 school teachers, there were about 19 "good" guys with guns who refused to go into the classroom and stop the shooter for around an hour.  So much for good guys with guns. 

Do you realize you're arguing against yourself? Those guys represent the protection you've got. Those were the local police. Not much were they? The same thing happened in Parkland.

Remember Parkland's 'Officer Smugly' or whatever he was called on every liberal talk show for weeks then it turned out his incompetence and his officer's cowardice was a major part of the death count. He got fired. Hope they're better prepared now because, yeah, preparedness is an obvious reaction when nothing else works.

Edited May 30, 2022 by Infidel Dog

[Infidel Dog]

4 minutes ago, Aristides said:

The only reason Americans feel the need to carry a firearm is because they are afraid of the world around them. Every post you make just confirms that. Sorry, but I don't want to live in a world like that, no sane person does.  Americans are welcome to it.

Fine. Give me a better solution than "be prepared" then.

I'm listening. 

Haven't heard one yet.

[blackbird]

14 minutes ago, Infidel Dog said:

Don't then but I'd say preparedness is one possible solution when all others don't work.

But as to this:

Do you realize you're arguing against yourself? Those guys represent the protection you've got. Those were the local police. Not much were they? The same thing happened in Parkland.

Remember Parkland's 'Officer Smugly' or whatever he was called on every liberal talk show for weeks then it turned out his incompetence and his officer's cowardice was a major part of the death count. He got fired. Hope they're better prepared now because, yeah, preparedness is an obvious reaction when nothing else works.

You're not thinking rationally at all.  Just firing from the hip so to speak like the wild west gun slingers in the cowboy movies.   Wake up!   Something like 20,000 innocent Americans are killed per year by guns and tens of thousand more wounded.  The rare case where someone is able to defend themselves with a gun in no way justifies allowing 20,000 innocent people to be murdered every year.  That is the problem in a nutshell.  Guns need to be removed from most American hands and only made available to hunters and such under strict controls and conditions.  The present system is not working and you should be concerned about the enormous senseless loss of life. 

The chart at this website shows the actual numbers:

Firearm Deaths, All Ages: 1999-2016
	Suicides		Homicides		Unintentional		Legal Intervention		Undetermined Intent
Year	% of Total Firearm Deaths for Year*		% of Total Firearm Deaths for Year		% of Total Firearm Deaths for Year		% of Total Firearm Deaths for Year		% of Total Firearm Deaths for Year		Total
1999	16,599 57.5%		10,828 37.5%		824 2.9%		299 1.0%		324 1.1%		28,874
2000	16,586 57.9%		10,801 37.7%		776 2.8%		270 0.9%		230 0.8%		28,663
2001	16,869 57.0%		11,348 38.4%		802 2.7%		323 1.1%		231 0.8%		29,573
2002	17,108 56.6%		11,829 39.1%		762 2.5%		300 1.0%		243 0.8%		30,242
2003	16,907 56.1%		11,920 39.6%		730 2.4%		347 1.2%		232 0.8%		30,136
2004	16,750 56.6%		11,624 39.3%		649 2.2%		311 1.1%		235 0.8%		29,569
2005	17,002 55.4%		12,352 40.2%		789 2.6%		330 1.1%		221 0.7%		30,694
2006	16,883 54.6%		12,791 41.4%		642 2.1%		360 1.2%		220 0.7%		30,896
2007	17,352 55.6%		12,632 40.5%		613 2.0%		351 1.1%		276 0.9%		31,224
2008	18,223 57.7%		12,179 38.5%		592 1.9%		326 1.0%		273 0.9%		31,593
2009	18,735 59.8%		11,493 36.7%		554 1.8%		333 1.1%		232 0.7%		31,347
2010	19,392 61.2%		11,078 35.0%		606 1.9%		344 1.1%		252 0.8%		31,672
2011	19,990 62.0%		11,068 34.2%		591 1.8%		454 1.4%		248 0.8%		32,351
2012	20,666 61.6%		11,622 34.6%		548 1.6%		471 1.4%		256 0.8%		33,563
2013	21,175 63.0%		11,208 32.8%		505 1.5%		467 1.4%		281 0.8%		33,636
2014	21,386 63.7%		11,008 32.6%		461 1.4%		464 1.4%		275 0.8%		33,594
2015	22,018 60.7%		12,979 35.8%		489 1.3%		484 1.3%		282 0.8%		36,252
2016	22,938 59.3%		14,415 37.3%		495 1.3%		510 1.3%		300 0.8%		38,658
Total	336,579 58.8%		213,175 37.2%		11,428 2.0%		6,744 1.2%		4,611 0.8%		572,537
Average Per Year	18,699		11,843		635		375		256		31,808

US Gun Deaths by Year - Gun Control - ProCon.org

Edited May 30, 2022 by blackbird

[Aristides]

11 minutes ago, Infidel Dog said:

Fine. Give me a better solution than "be prepared" then.

I'm listening. 

Haven't heard one yet.

Not my problem. I guess you will have to live with the body count as you are prepared to do nothing other than add more guns to the 400 million already owned by Americans.  More dead kids in the name of freedum.

You won't even support real background checks that actually vet people.

[Infidel Dog]

6 minutes ago, blackbird said:

You're not thinking rationally at all. 

Really? Caution and preparedness aren't rational in your world? I'd question the definition of "rational" in your world then.

Apparently pushing controls that won't, can't or have been shown not to work is the new "rational" over there, is it?

Yeah...no thanks.

[blackbird]

21 minutes ago, Infidel Dog said:

Fine. Give me a better solution than "be prepared" then.

I'm listening. 

Haven't heard one yet.

The stats show 97% of gun deaths are by suicide or illegal homicide/murder.  Only 1.2% of gun deaths are what you could say are legal.  That tells me there is a huge problem with all the guns available.  

Edited May 30, 2022 by blackbird

[Infidel Dog]

5 minutes ago, Aristides said:

Not my problem.

What is your problem then? 

Is it like "Wah? Bad things are happening and nobody cares but me. I'm so much better than people who want to protect themselves and those around them."

[Infidel Dog]

2 minutes ago, blackbird said:

The stats show 97% of gun deaths are by suicide or illegal homicide/murder.  Only 1.2% of gun deaths are what you could say are legal.  That tells me there is a huge problem with all the guns available.  

So what's your solution then. Grab all the guns? It can't be done. Next. 

[blackbird]

The gun issue in the U.S. should be a non-partisan issue.  People should not be embracing more guns or defending all the shootings and massive prevalence of guns in society simply because they are conservative or Republican or believe in freedom.  This is simply a common sense issue of public safety that effects everyone.  Nobody is invincible from bullets and guns.  

[blackbird]

I knew a young man who had a good job in the telephone company with all the benefits and good pay.  He left it all and moved to Las Vegas, Nevada because he believed he should be able to carry a hand gun to protect himself.  Sad.

Edited May 30, 2022 by blackbird

[Aristides]

9 minutes ago, Infidel Dog said:

What is your problem then? 

Is it like "Wah? Bad things are happening and nobody cares but me. I'm so much better than people who want to protect themselves and those around them."

Go ahead and "protect" yourself but you are just protecting yourself from yourself because you are prepared to change nothing.

[Infidel Dog]

3 minutes ago, blackbird said:

The gun issue in the U.S. should be a non-partisan issue.  People should not be embracing more guns or defending all the shootings and massive prevalence of guns in society simply because they are conservative or Republican or believe in freedom.  This is simply a common sense issue of public safety that effects everyone.  Nobody is invincible from bullets and guns.  

You seem to be recommending a societal overhaul of rethink.

I'm not necessarily opposed to that but the current push for it - what I'll mistakenly call the "progressive" approach just because that's what they call themselves - hasn't worked, doesn't work, will never work and personally, I believe is what got us where we are.

I'd be more for rediscovering what we had before everything went wrong. Societally speaking I mean. Family, Freedom with personal responsibility and the golden rule. That sort of thing

[Infidel Dog]

4 minutes ago, Aristides said:

Go ahead and "protect" yourself but you are just protecting yourself from yourself because you are prepared to change nothing.

Thanks. Until you can tell me exactly how you plan to create this "change" I'll do just that and recommend others to the same. 

[Aristides]

5 minutes ago, Infidel Dog said:

Thanks. Until you can tell me exactly how you plan to create this "change" I'll do just that and recommend others to the same. 

You don't want change, so why bother. You won't even discuss proper background checks before people can buy a firearm.

[Aristides]

16 minutes ago, Infidel Dog said:

You seem to be recommending a societal overhaul of rethink.

I'm not necessarily opposed to that but the current push for it - what I'll mistakenly call the "progressive" approach just because that's what they call themselves - hasn't worked, doesn't work, will never work and personally, I believe is what got us where we are.

I'd be more for rediscovering what we had before everything went wrong. Societally speaking I mean. Family, Freedom with personal responsibility and the golden rule. That sort of thing

Right, it's progressives who are responsible for the 400 million guns Americans own. It's progressives who are preventing a vote on Bill HR8 in the Senate. ?

Edited May 30, 2022 by Aristides

[Aristides]

In 2019 there were 45,000 firearms related deaths in the US. There were 36,000 traffic fatalities. 

[Michael Hardner]

Just now, Aristides said:

Right, it's progressives who are responsible for the 400 million guns Americans own.?

Family, Freedom and personal responsibility except...

-No daycare funding
-Take away freedoms for gender identity, sexual preference 
-Remove abortion rights from women in place for 40-50 years
-Criminals and the mentally ill aren't to be held accountable for their past and given weapons rights
-You're not free to form a union, since the employer has a right to ignore them 

 

[Infidel Dog]

4 hours ago, Aristides said:

Right, it's progressives who are responsible for the 400 million guns Americans own. It's progressives who are preventing a vote on Bill HR8 in the Senate. ?

For the guns, no. 

For the societal breakdown that propagates deviance, moral breakdown, self and external destruction, yeah.

Although...without all that normal people wouldn't need so many guns, maybe.

Edited May 30, 2022 by Infidel Dog

[Infidel Dog]

3 hours ago, Aristides said:

In 2019 there were 45,000 firearms related deaths in the US. There were 36,000 traffic fatalities. 

More than half firearms related deaths are suicides. That's interesting.

And here's another interesting little fact about firearms related deaths. They increased drastically this millennium with the empowerment of what some like to think of themselves as "Progressives." 

[Aristides]

21 minutes ago, Infidel Dog said:

For the guns, no. 

For the societal breakdown that propagates deviance, moral breakdown, self and external destruction, yeah.

Although...without all that normal people wouldn't need so many guns, maybe.

So you are saying the US is a basket case and that is why it needs so many more guns than any other country. 

[Infidel Dog]

4 hours ago, Aristides said:

You don't want change, so why bother. 

How would you know? I'm still waiting to see you offer some specifics on what that change would look like.

Go ahead. Offer something that makes sense and I might surprise you.

I'm not going to hold my breath though.

[Aristides]

4 minutes ago, Infidel Dog said:

How would you know? I'm still waiting to see you offer some specifics on what that change would look like.

Go ahead. Offer something that makes sense and I might surprise you.

I'm not going to hold my breath though.

So why are Senate Republicans blocking a vote on HR8 which is a bipartisan bill passed in the House, designed to correct the deficiencies in the current federal background check?

Edited May 30, 2022 by Aristides

[Infidel Dog]

2 minutes ago, Aristides said:

So you are saying the US is a basket case and that is why it needs so many more guns than any other country. 

Sure looks to be going in that direction since 2020 when we started hearing about the Progressive Stack and such.

Would you like to see it again?

Notice that big spike since the Soros attorney generals started to kick it into gear with lax sentences? And then the progs gifted us with the defund the police movement.

You guys loved your lockdowns too. Suicides soared with those. And as I noted more than half firearms related deaths are suicides.

See this is what Progs do. They create a problem then they offer to solve the problem. Never works. They don't actually have solutions as you've illustrated with such dogged determination not to offer any.