Western supremacy

[Faramir]

Had this conversation with the wife.  I have always believed that the West brought the absolute best in everything to the world and nothing can shine a light to it.  The argument began on the top of colonialism, which was indeed bad in many ways, but the nations who benefited from it are now better than they were.  Who would not want to inherit the Western capitalist traditions and riches that the West created?  Indeed, as bad as the residential schools were you have to admit we dragged millions of natives on the continent into a new exciting world of the West.  The wife's argument was what is different is not better.  And she is right.  The different societies the West encountered were different but not better.  In South East Asia we brought millions out of poverty.  The entire world is richer than it ever was with the exception of Africa.

[athos]

Western mentality is always one of brutal action when confronted with something that they do not like and understand. they seek to dominate in order to bring perceived meaning to their self-designated righteous superiority. The west has no clue how to answer to China and have embarked on an ancient old tradition of propagating war and destruction. They know that china is outmaneuvering them at every corner with class, peace, and resolve. This approach is not only portrayed as alien in substance but also as unacceptable by the west who needs all to play according to their rules of might is right (as they see themselves despite the dire and rapidly degrading condition of their societies). They need and want China to play by their books in order to be able to contain china through their own, and only known, tactic and method of conducting war as the only solution to a problem. The barbaric western psyche has not evolved a bit despite coming into contact with so many various cultures and civilizations, from which they could have learned so much, over the span of centuries.

 

Edited May 12, 2022 by athos

[August1991]

On 5/11/2022 at 11:12 PM, athos said:

Western mentality is always one of brutal action when confronted with something that they do not like and understand. they seek to dominate in order to bring perceived meaning to their self-designated righteous superiority. The west has no clue how to answer to China and have embarked on an ancient old tradition of propagating war and destruction.

===

I strongly disagree.

The Western mentality is based on Voltaire: "I  disagree with what you say but I will defend to my death your right to say it."

 

Edited May 15, 2022 by August1991

[Faramir]

On 5/11/2022 at 8:12 PM, athos said:

Western mentality is always one of brutal action when confronted with something that they do not like and understand. they seek to dominate in order to bring perceived meaning to their self-designated righteous superiority. The west has no clue how to answer to China and have embarked on an ancient old tradition of propagating war and destruction. They know that china is outmaneuvering them at every corner with class, peace, and resolve. This approach is not only portrayed as alien in substance but also as unacceptable by the west who needs all to play according to their rules of might is right (as they see themselves despite the dire and rapidly degrading condition of their societies). They need and want China to play by their books in order to be able to contain china through their own, and only known, tactic and method of conducting war as the only solution to a problem. The barbaric western psyche has not evolved a bit despite coming into contact with so many various cultures and civilizations, from which they could have learned so much, over the span of centuries.

 

OK Chicom

[Yzermandius19]

On 5/11/2022 at 11:12 PM, athos said:

Western mentality is always one of brutal action when confronted with something that they do not like and understand. they seek to dominate in order to bring perceived meaning to their self-designated righteous superiority. The west has no clue how to answer to China and have embarked on an ancient old tradition of propagating war and destruction. They know that china is outmaneuvering them at every corner with class, peace, and resolve. This approach is not only portrayed as alien in substance but also as unacceptable by the west who needs all to play according to their rules of might is right (as they see themselves despite the dire and rapidly degrading condition of their societies). They need and want China to play by their books in order to be able to contain china through their own, and only known, tactic and method of conducting war as the only solution to a problem. The barbaric western psyche has not evolved a bit despite coming into contact with so many various cultures and civilizations, from which they could have learned so much, over the span of centuries.

the Russians are propagating war

and China depends on the West to prop it up

[August1991]

On 5/27/2022 at 9:06 PM, Yzermandius19 said:

the Russians are propagating war

and China depends on the West to prop it up

As it happens, I reckon that Putin was correct to make Crimea part of Russia.

For Putin, it is a war to take back territory where Russians once were.

===

But this current war in so-called Ukraine was entirely avoidable.

IMHO, the deaths are largely on Biden - and somewhat on Trump.

=====

This should have been negotiated.

 

 

 

[Yzermandius19]

15 minutes ago, August1991 said:

As it happens, I reckon that Putin was correct to make Crimea part of Russia.

For Putin, it is a war to take back territory where Russians once were.

===

But this current war in so-called Ukraine was entirely avoidable.

IMHO, the deaths are largely on Biden - and somewhat on Trump.

=====

just because Crimea used to be part of Russia and Russians are there

doesn't mean they are entitled to take it back

the deaths in Ukraine are on Putin

[August1991]

3 hours ago, Yzermandius19 said:

just because Crimea used to be part of Russia and Russians are there

doesn't mean they are entitled to take it back

the deaths in Ukraine are on Putin

Khruschev arbitrarily made Crimea part of the Ukraine.

Stalin arbitrarily drew the borders of the Soviet Union. Ukraine? It is only a "country" in the mind of Woodrow Wilson and Stalin.

Before 1914, where all the western journalists now work, Lemberg was part of the Austrian-Hungarian Empire. A city of dominant Germans and many unilingual Polish-speaking people. Bilingual Jews. Like Montreal in the 1920s.

Nowadays, Western Ukraine has no Jews. It has no Germans, and no Polish-speaking people. 

=====

Putin has a historical view of Russia.

[August1991]

After Yeltsin resigned in 1999, Tony Blair flew frequently to Russia to meet Putin. I listened to a recent Blair discussion about this.

Others have discussed a NATO meeting in 2008 in Romania: this made Putin change

Putin himself has referred to the Kiev coup in February 2014.

Some have noted that his wife left him and his daughters are in the UK.

=====

I reckon simply that Putin decided that he will do what is best for Russia.

[August1991]

For modern Americans, read these words of Abraham Lincoln written in 1862:

"f I could save the Union without freeing any slave I would do it, and if I could save it by freeing all the slaves I would do it; and if I could save it by freeing some and leaving others alone I would also do that. What I do about slavery, and the colored race, I do because I believe it helps to save the Union; and what I forbear, I forbear because I do not believe it would help to save the Union. I shall do less whenever I shall believe what I am doing hurts the cause, and I shall do more whenever I shall believe doing more will help the cause. I shall try to correct errors when shown to be errors; and I shall adopt new views so fast as they shall appear to be true views."

I reckon that these words are a better understanding of Putin's thinking than any other journalist.

====

BTW, Lincoln wrote these words to Greeley at about the same time that Tolstoi was writing about the French invasion in 1812.

Edited May 31, 2022 by August1991

[Yzermandius19]

5 hours ago, August1991 said:

Khruschev arbitrarily made Crimea part of the Ukraine.

Stalin arbitrarily drew the borders of the Soviet Union. Ukraine? It is only a "country" in the mind of Woodrow Wilson and Stalin.

Before 1914, where all the western journalists now work, Lemberg was part of the Austrian-Hungarian Empire. A city of dominant Germans and many unilingual Polish-speaking people. Bilingual Jews. Like Montreal in the 1920s.

Nowadays, Western Ukraine has no Jews. It has no Germans, and no Polish-speaking people. 

=====

Putin has a historical view of Russia.

the Austro-Hungarian Empire and Ottoman Empire should not be restored and absorb the countries that used to be part of them

just because those countries aren't that old and the Empire's lasted a long time by comparison

the same is true of Ukraine being absorbed by Russia

just because it was that way in the past, doesn't mean it should be that way in the present or future

Putin is not entitled to annex areas that used to be part of Russia

Hitler was not entitled to annex areas that used to be part of Germany

Edited May 31, 2022 by Yzermandius19

[August1991]

On 5/31/2022 at 8:19 AM, Yzermandius19 said:

the Austro-Hungarian Empire ..... should not be restored...

And yet, that is what Trudeau Snr wanted to recreate in North America.

A federal state, bilingual at the federal level - state bureaucrats must answer in both languages - but no official culture.

 

Edited June 3, 2022 by August1991

[August1991]

I'm no fan of Putin. He's a thug.

So, I agree with Biden that the world would be a better place without guys like Putin.

=====

But I prefer the American way: Their thugs hate each other; and they change their thugs every so often without violence or death. 

Edited June 3, 2022 by August1991

[Yzermandius19]

1 hour ago, August1991 said:

And yet, that is what Trudeau Snr wanted to recreate in North America.

A federal state, bilingual at the federal level - state bureaucrats must answer in both languages - but no official culture.

and that has been a mistake

further proof it's a bad idea

[August1991]

39 minutes ago, Yzermandius19 said:

and that has been a mistake

further proof it's a bad idea

On the contrary,

The world of Lemberg, pre-1914 Europe, is wonderful. It is the modern Trudeau Snr world.

====

Question: Is it sustainable? 

[Yzermandius19]

19 minutes ago, August1991 said:

On the contrary,

The world of Lemberg, pre-1914 Europe, is wonderful. It is the modern Trudeau Snr world.

====

Question: Is it sustainable? 

Austro-Hungary collapsed for a reason

so will Canada

and it will be an improvement

just as it was when decrepit Austro-Hungarian Empire and Ottoman Empire collapsed

Edited June 3, 2022 by Yzermandius19

[August1991]

30 minutes ago, Yzermandius19 said:

Austro-Hungary collapsed for a reason.

so will Canada

.....

Mulroney?

I prefer the Stephen Harper answer to this: "Americans always figure out a way."

----

As a country, you could not wish for a better neighbour.

Edited June 3, 2022 by August1991

[Yzermandius19]

4 hours ago, August1991 said:

Mulroney?

I prefer the Stephen Harper answer to this: "Americans always figure out a way."

----

As a country, you could not wish for a better neighbour.

America is great

Canada doesn't work

Edited June 3, 2022 by Yzermandius19

[Robert Salyers]

On 5/11/2022 at 11:12 PM, athos said:

Western mentality is always one of brutal action when confronted with something that they do not like and understand. they seek to dominate in order to bring perceived meaning to their self-designated righteous superiority. The west has no clue how to answer to China and have embarked on an ancient old tradition of propagating war and destruction. They know that china is outmaneuvering them at every corner with class, peace, and resolve. This approach is not only portrayed as alien in substance but also as unacceptable by the west who needs all to play according to their rules of might is right (as they see themselves despite the dire and rapidly degrading condition of their societies). They need and want China to play by their books in order to be able to contain china through their own, and only known, tactic and method of conducting war as the only solution to a problem. The barbaric western psyche has not evolved a bit despite coming into contact with so many various cultures and civilizations, from which they could have learned so much, over the span of centuries.

 

From what O see china is the aggression one 

[August1991]

On 6/3/2022 at 5:05 AM, Yzermandius19 said:

America is great

Canada doesn't work

Canada doesn't work? Look how we have managed a civilised society.

We Canadians have different languages, religions - for centuries - without a constitution and a second amendment.

(Founders? In Canada, we don't have this. Our BNA Act and its various amendments are a mess.)

===

IMHO, Americans could not wish for better neighbours to the north.

And we Canadians could not wish for better neighbors to the south.

 

Edited June 5, 2022 by August1991

[Army Guy]

On 6/3/2022 at 1:36 AM, August1991 said:

----

As a country, you could not wish for a better neighbour.

why is that? what makes Canada a good neighbor? 

[August1991]

On 6/5/2022 at 10:44 PM, Army Guy said:

why is that? what makes Canada a good neighbor? 

When was the last time that Canada invaded you?

Compare that to Russia/Poland/France/Sri Lanka/Egypt/Israel etc. etc.

I'll leave aside our "invasion" of questionable comedians and the question of your southern border.

====

On a related note, I had a chat with an electrician a few days ago. He feared the influx of immigrants to Montreal. I rolled my eyes (kids say cringe, nowadays) and answered that our cold weather will protect us.

Unlike Australia, Canada's net immigration is realtively small. Canada accepts many immigrants but they don't stay. They move south. In Quebec speak, le Canada est une passerelle.

===

Sadly, I fear that we'll see more and more walled houses - even in Canada. 

[Army Guy]

19 hours ago, August1991 said:

When was the last time that Canada invaded you?

Compare that to Russia/Poland/France/Sri Lanka/Egypt/Israel etc. etc.

I'll leave aside our "invasion" of questionable comedians and the question of your southern border.

====

On a related note, I had a chat with an electrician a few days ago. He feared the influx of immigrants to Montreal. I rolled my eyes (kids say cringe, nowadays) and answered that our cold weather will protect us.

Unlike Australia, Canada's net immigration is realtively small. Canada accepts many immigrants but they don't stay. They move south. In Quebec speak, le Canada est une passerelle.

===

Sadly, I fear that we'll see more and more walled houses - even in Canada. 

That is a pretty weak comeback, I guess the standard was low to start with. My neighbor has never invaded my property either does not mean he is not an asshole. So I guess burning the white house down does not count, Our nation has taken part in many invasions of South Africa, France, Germany, Netherlands, Cyprus, Iraq, Libya, Afghanistan, Korea, there are lots more...

How about orchestrating a change of government in Haiti.

Aside from invading other nations, here are some other reasons we make shitty neighbors, we pay little attention to international defense agreements we have signed on to, NORAD, NATO, 5 EYES, to which we have lied constantly to, even signed an agreement to spend 2 % of GDP, days later the PM told the international media we had no intention of keeping our word. We told the Un assembly we were back and would take on more UN taskings, that was over 6 years ago, but still has not happened, another lie. We make it a national sport to talk behind our neighbors back here in Canada, but also international as well in front of other nations' leaders. I did not know stabbing a good neighbor and allied in the back was being a good neighbor.

Why are we good neighbors again?   

[August1991]

On 6/7/2022 at 7:05 PM, Army Guy said:

That is a pretty weak comeback, I guess the standard was low to start with. My neighbor has never invaded my property either does not mean he is not an asshole. So I guess burning the white house down does not count, Our nation has taken part in many invasions of South Africa, France, Germany, Netherlands, Cyprus, Iraq, Libya, Afghanistan, Korea, there are lots more...

How about orchestrating a change of government in Haiti.

You forgot Chile.

In the case of Haiti, to what effect?

====

Compare both to South Korea.

Or the Korean peninsula. Imagine a world where all Koreans can speak together.

 

Edited June 9, 2022 by August1991

[Army Guy]

13 hours ago, August1991 said:

You forgot Chile.

In the case of Haiti, to what effect?

====

Compare both to South Korea.

Or the Korean peninsula. Imagine a world where all Koreans can speak together.

 

I did say there is a lot more, my point was Canada is not the nice neighbor you paint it to be or use to be, now we could not even invade PEI, some source of pride in that somehow. 

To what effect, to change the government without the Haitians ' consent, goggle it. Then we had the balls to send in peacekeepers, ya nice guys them Canadians. 

Ya back then that was an honorable outcome, one worth blood and treasure, today nobody cares about those ideals anymore, we are a nation of talkers, not doers, we leave that for other nations... we are that little barking dog in the background, where we like to take the stage and point to ourselves looked at what we did, but if we have to put in any effort or treasure, were done...

So how are we good neighbors again...