News Media...Twitter and The Internet...MSM...CNN...FOX...Where Does The Truth Live?

[Nationalist]

@Michael Hardner We discussed the differences between FOX News and CNN a few days ago. I said I'd watch both, and have. This thread...I hope...will be a discussion and a search...of sorts...for real truth. Cold facts to issues and events. Participate or don't...

 

I watched CNN fairly regularly through the 90's and 2000's. I worked for a Canadian embassy in Europe in the 90's and either CNN or CBC ran constantly in the offices. I remember first seeing Tucker Carlson on CNN...in a bow tie. In 1996 FOX News came into being. It was brash and obviously biased toward the Republican party and conservatism. A lot o' water under the bridge since then.

CBC meant only 1 thing to me for my entire life...Hockey Night In Canada. They blew that and I found no more use for them.

But FOX and CNN...lately. Over the last couple weeks I've seen CNN play the Russian Harp primarily. Endless interviews with Ukrainian mothers who speak English...pictures of reported Russian bombing and atrocities...the last few days, lots of Elon Musk and Twitter. Oddly enough, little to nothing about Hunter and his fabled laptop.

On FOX I see lots of the Russian Harp as well. But I also get a small whiff of Russian propaganda as well. Statements from Russian notaries and such. An interesting view point. I see a lot of Hunter's fabled laptop and talk of Joe's possible...if not obvious...participation and profiting. They still hammer on the border pretty hard daily and report on urban violence quite a bit.

All in all, I find FOX present a more diverse selection of subjects than does CNN. I also find the CNN personalities use terms like "potentially", "could be", and likes to play the obligatory race card regularly. They flat out deny the very existence of CRT and fell for the whole "Don't say gay" horseshit.

On the other side of the fence...Hannity is not enamoured with Joe Biden what so ever...and its bloody obvious. His disdain for Biden is as intense as Don leMon's hatred of Trump.

My analysis leads me to conclude that FOX News provides a superior product, if only because of the wider array of issues they report on and discuss. I have to admit as well that, while both of these MSM news channels have obvious biases, CNN tends to lie a little too much and a little too often for my liking.

So...what about the "alternative" news sources? I sometimes watch Czech news with my wife. Pretty interesting opinions over seas people.

How do you view the MSM news? Do you believe anything any of them say? How do you get you news fix and what sources really "nail it"?

 

[Nationalist]

So...Mikey doesn't wanna touch this now.

What a shocker...

Now we have a private citizen buying Twitter and has most of the media all flustered about the prospect.

The administration reacts by making an embarrassing little twit, head of a new truth commission. How...pathetic. 

[Great American]

On 4/26/2022 at 7:31 PM, Nationalist said:

In 1996 FOX News came into being. It was brash

No it wasn't.

Quote

It was brash and obviously biased toward the Republican party and conservatism.

Wrong. Here's what you do not understand.

A cable news station is like a newspaper. There is a hard news section, opinion section, plus a sports and entertainment section.

Fox "Hard News" section has always been fair and balanced, while CNN and MSNBC ae mostly leftist propaganda. And thats what matters.

Fox "opinion" did have mostly Republican opinion, but O'Reilly and Greta were independents and Gerald Riviera was left of center. Meanwhile, CNN and MSNBC are totally far left, no diversity.

Fox News is the only good news on television.

Here are my news links: https://terryobrien.online/

EDIT: Thank you for the like @Nationalist It takes a good person to like a post that was somewhat critical of your own post. I respect that

 

Edited May 8, 2022 by Great American

[Michael Hardner]

On 4/26/2022 at 7:31 PM, Nationalist said:

 

1. I've seen CNN play the Russian Harp primarily. Endless interviews with Ukrainian mothers who speak English...pictures of reported Russian bombing and atrocities...the last few days, lots of Elon Musk and Twitter. Oddly enough, little to nothing about Hunter and his fabled laptop.

2. On FOX I see lots of the Russian Harp as well. But I also get a small whiff of Russian propaganda as well. Statements from Russian notaries and such. An interesting view point. I see a lot of Hunter's fabled laptop and talk of Joe's possible...if not obvious...participation and profiting. They still hammer on the border pretty hard daily and report on urban violence quite a bit.

3. All in all, I find FOX present a more diverse selection of subjects than does CNN. I also find the CNN personalities use terms like "potentially", "could be", and likes to play the obligatory race card regularly. They flat out deny the very existence of CRT and fell for the whole "Don't say gay" horseshit.

4. How do you view the MSM news? Do you believe anything any of them say? How do you get you news fix and what sources really "nail it"?

 

1. Pretty crazy statement if I am inferring correctly.  Are you saying that the Hunter Biden story is as important as Russia invading Ukraine ?  I would expect that any stories about Biden's laptop would follow the pattern of stories on the NY Attny General's investigation of Trump Co - basically official dispatches from investigators.  Objectively, there's not much else that would constitute news, ie. new information.

2. They are reporting on Trump talking points that make Biden look bad but I believe CNN has covered border issues too, especially as Biden continued the policies that Democrats had previously criticized.

3. But both are selecting which stories to cover, and therefore deciding what is 'important' news.  This, you have now seen.

4. I like to get my news on here, and via text not via filmic dispatches.  So wherever it comes from, I get it on here and primarily with news "copy".

The important thing is that the facts are stated, and that the news comes from named entities with some kind of reputation.   Online news is rife with paid propaganda and fools fall for that easily.  Annoying fools will accuse folks of being biased because they don't believe sh*t news...

Here's an example of shit news saying that the Florida governor is worth $52 million.  I see a lot of Democrats sharing this online.  Indeed he may be worth that much but there's no evidence.  

https://caknowledge.com/ron-desantis-net-worth/

 

[Michael Hardner]

Let's have a chat now about what MIGHT show up on FOX and CNN and hasn't.

I thought about this a lot, because your post seems to have an assumption that there IS important news out there and some networks cover it, and some don't.  "News", though, is new information about important events.  So the relationship between news and the events, as well as how they are deemed important is worth looking at.

What impacts our lives ?  Economics, and its attachment to "the" public known as the 'political economy' is one.  International relations, is also related here.  Then you have climate, and health.

One major problem I have with private news networks such as CNN and FOX is that they are paid by advertisers, so have a built-in interest to generate attention.  This gives us the adage "if it bleeds it leads".  The affect of that configuration is that problems of deep importance that lack excitement are ignored until they bubble up to the surface.

Think "North Korean missile tests" "Pandemic preparedness" or myriad international immergencies.

Right now there is a major drought happening in the US.  It's "doom" news, but not excitingly so and there's no quick fix.  So this very important news story is being under covered.

I just checked CNN and FOX websites.  Nothing on CNN.  FOX only has a piece on the discovery of a body in a barrel that came out from a reservoir drying up.  Nevada, the mob, excitement and "if it bleeds it leads"

Here's a story that's interesting.  Did you know that alfalfa is being grown in drought-impacted areas ?  That it takes a lot of water and a lot of the crops are exported to feed cattle in China, Japan, Saudi Arabia.  

https://www.motherjones.com/environment/2021/06/foreign-companies-export-virtual-water-american-drought-southwest/

We now have social media so there should be bandwidth to discuss big and boring topics like this.  But "the" public needs to WANT to.  And that means we should be moving away from angertainment and towards edusolutions... (copyright MH 2022 all rights reserved)

[Nationalist]

32 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said:

1. Pretty crazy statement if I am inferring correctly.  Are you saying that the Hunter Biden story is as important as Russia invading Ukraine ?  I would expect that any stories about Biden's laptop would follow the pattern of stories on the NY Attny General's investigation of Trump Co - basically official dispatches from investigators.  Objectively, there's not much else that would constitute news, ie. new information.

2. They are reporting on Trump talking points that make Biden look bad but I believe CNN has covered border issues too, especially as Biden continued the policies that Democrats had previously criticized.

3. But both are selecting which stories to cover, and therefore deciding what is 'important' news.  This, you have now seen.

4. I like to get my news on here, and via text not via filmic dispatches.  So wherever it comes from, I get it on here and primarily with news "copy".

The important thing is that the facts are stated, and that the news comes from named entities with some kind of reputation.   Online news is rife with paid propaganda and fools fall for that easily.  Annoying fools will accuse folks of being biased because they don't believe sh*t news...

Here's an example of shit news saying that the Florida governor is worth $52 million.  I see a lot of Democrats sharing this online.  Indeed he may be worth that much but there's no evidence.  

https://caknowledge.com/ron-desantis-net-worth/

 

1. Hunter's laptop makes it clear that Joe has been breaking the law. That IS bigger than war between 2 back-ass-wards Eastern European nations.

2. If they have, I haven't seen or heard it.

3. So...it "important" for CNN to lie endlessly? I suppose you have a point there. Hell without all the lies, they'd have to admit what big liars they are.

4. Why is Desantis's worth news?

Edited May 9, 2022 by Nationalist

[Nationalist]

7 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said:

Let's have a chat now about what MIGHT show up on FOX and CNN and hasn't.

I thought about this a lot, because your post seems to have an assumption that there IS important news out there and some networks cover it, and some don't.  "News", though, is new information about important events.  So the relationship between news and the events, as well as how they are deemed important is worth looking at.

What impacts our lives ?  Economics, and its attachment to "the" public known as the 'political economy' is one.  International relations, is also related here.  Then you have climate, and health.

One major problem I have with private news networks such as CNN and FOX is that they are paid by advertisers, so have a built-in interest to generate attention.  This gives us the adage "if it bleeds it leads".  The affect of that configuration is that problems of deep importance that lack excitement are ignored until they bubble up to the surface.

Think "North Korean missile tests" "Pandemic preparedness" or myriad international immergencies.

Right now there is a major drought happening in the US.  It's "doom" news, but not excitingly so and there's no quick fix.  So this very important news story is being under covered.

I just checked CNN and FOX websites.  Nothing on CNN.  FOX only has a piece on the discovery of a body in a barrel that came out from a reservoir drying up.  Nevada, the mob, excitement and "if it bleeds it leads"

Here's a story that's interesting.  Did you know that alfalfa is being grown in drought-impacted areas ?  That it takes a lot of water and a lot of the crops are exported to feed cattle in China, Japan, Saudi Arabia.  

https://www.motherjones.com/environment/2021/06/foreign-companies-export-virtual-water-american-drought-southwest/

We now have social media so there should be bandwidth to discuss big and boring topics like this.  But "the" public needs to WANT to.  And that means we should be moving away from angertainment and towards edusolutions... (copyright MH 2022 all rights reserved)

Previously you said,

Quote

 Online news is rife with paid propaganda and fools fall for that easily.  Annoying fools will accuse folks of being biased because they don't believe sh*t news...

and now you say,

Quote

Here's a story that's interesting.  Did you know that alfalfa is being grown in drought-impacted areas ?  That it takes a lot of water and a lot of the crops are exported to feed cattle in China, Japan, Saudi Arabia.  

https://www.motherjones.com/environment/2021/06/foreign-companies-export-virtual-water-american-drought-southwest/

We now have social media so there should be bandwidth to discuss big and boring topics like this.  But "the" public needs to WANT to.  And that means we should be moving away from angertainment and towards edusolutions... (copyright MH 2022 all rights reserved)

TV and MSM news are sensationalized...and should not be. I find FOX does a "better" job of reporting issues that are not glamorous. But both CNN and FOX know that the general public is either too busy or too lazy to really question their opinions and reporting. Hence...RUSSIA RUSSIA RUSSIA. The bald-faced Libbie LIE that keep on giving.

BTW..."edusolutions". Good one...I like it.

[Michael Hardner]

16 minutes ago, Nationalist said:

1. Hunter's laptop makes it clear that Joe has been breaking the law.

2. That IS bigger than war between 2 back-ass-wards Eastern European nations.

3. If they have, I haven't seen or heard it.

4. So...it "important" for CNN to lie endlessly? I suppose you have a point there. Hell without all the lies, they'd have to admit what big liars they are.

5. Why is Desantis's worth news?

1. I have not followed the story and I really don't have the time to go down that rabbit hole.

2. A leading nuclear power and UN security council member invading another country ?  No, not even close.

3. You explicitly say so in your post about the diversity of stories they choose to cover.

4. Whatever you are using as a definition for 'lies' would apply to FOX too.

5. I can't believe you missed the point on this.  It's not news - and not covered by FOX or by CNN - because it is FAKE.  That is the point.  If his worth went from $300K to $52 million while in office as is alleged then of course it would be news.

[Michael Hardner]

And the Mother Jones article is from a left-leaning magazine that has been around forever.  Unlike, say, the Buffalo Chronicle.  

North America built up a network of news information that most people don't seem to be aware of, including you.  This means that reputation means nothing to a lot of new news followers because they don't know what is old and what is new... and they disrespect the old.  

This is a problem but not exactly a new one.  When CNN appeared on the air, traditionalists like me thought it was garbage ( I mean, I still do ) and the same with USA Today newspaper.  There simply is no appetite for hard news, analogous to the lack of appetite for nutritious food.

[Nationalist]

2 hours ago, Michael Hardner said:

1. I have not followed the story and I really don't have the time to go down that rabbit hole.

2. A leading nuclear power and UN security council member invading another country ?  No, not even close.

3. You explicitly say so in your post about the diversity of stories they choose to cover.

4. Whatever you are using as a definition for 'lies' would apply to FOX too.

5. I can't believe you missed the point on this.  It's not news - and not covered by FOX or by CNN - because it is FAKE.  That is the point.  If his worth went from $300K to $52 million while in office as is alleged then of course it would be news.

1. How convenient.

2. Not even close to the POTUS being compromised by that same security council member PLUS Ukraine AND China. OK got it...Nice cover-up.

3. Covering for CNN are we?

4. Really? Where? Exemplify these lies please?

5. His "worth"? Would that include campaign donations?

[Michael Hardner]

11 minutes ago, Nationalist said:

1. How convenient.

2. Not even close to the POTUS being compromised by that same security council member PLUS Ukraine AND China. OK got it...Nice cover-up.

3. Covering for CNN are we?

4. Really? Where? Exemplify these lies please?

5. His "worth"? Would that include campaign donations?

First off you need to understand this is a metdia

1.  This is a conversation about media and I think we discussed this, so it's done.   Apart from that I don't give a s**t about Biden, and I suspect you think that I LIKE him.  I don't. 

2.  Even if there was a smoking gun - what is the biggest story to come out of this ?  

3. No.  I think they're both bad.

4. I need to understand what you call 'lies' first.  And neither of us would get very far.  I will say they both are the same.

5. Yes, ostensibly.

What do you think about the drought story ?  Don't you think that that is a non partisan problem that should get more coverage.

I keep explaining that there's no appetite for hard news, that people just want to fight about petty things etc. and your response seems to be "let's talk about Hunter Biden" or CNN.  How many ways can I say I don't want to play ?

[Nationalist]

14 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said:

First off you need to understand this is a metdia

1.  This is a conversation about media and I think we discussed this, so it's done.   Apart from that I don't give a s**t about Biden, and I suspect you think that I LIKE him.  I don't. 

2.  Even if there was a smoking gun - what is the biggest story to come out of this ?  

3. No.  I think they're both bad.

4. I need to understand what you call 'lies' first.  And neither of us would get very far.  I will say they both are the same.

5. Yes, ostensibly.

What do you think about the drought story ?  Don't you think that that is a non partisan problem that should get more coverage.

I keep explaining that there's no appetite for hard news, that people just want to fight about petty things etc. and your response seems to be "let's talk about Hunter Biden" or CNN.  How many ways can I say I don't want to play ?

1. The Hunter Biden story is the biggest story there is. If you even looked at the top of the rabbit hole, you'd realize that.

2. https://nypost.com/2022/03/25/two-thirds-of-americans-say-hunter-biden-laptop-important-story-poll/

3. So if they're both bad...and I've seen you claim you get most of your news on this site...and knowing how partisan this site is...how do you learn the truth without independent investigation?

4. OK... The whole Russia "Collusion" thing was a bald-faced lie. The story about Hunter's laptop being "Russian Disinformation" was a bald-faced lie. That Trump built cages for kids was a bald-faced lie. The entire Steele Dossier was a bald-faced lie. Shall I go on?

5. So a politician collects campaign donation and you include that as some sort of corruption evidence? LOL...get serious.

I think droughts are bad and they happen. Solution...don't live in a desert.

Petty things...like the squelching of a story that would have changed the outcome of the last election. OK.

[Michael Hardner]

23 minutes ago, Nationalist said:

1. The Hunter Biden story is the biggest story there is. If you even looked at the top of the rabbit hole, you'd realize that.

2. https://nypost.com/2022/03/25/two-thirds-of-americans-say-hunter-biden-laptop-important-story-poll/

3. So if they're both bad...and I've seen you claim you get most of your news on this site...and knowing how partisan this site is...how do you learn the truth without independent investigation?

4. OK... The whole Russia "Collusion" thing was a bald-faced lie. The story about Hunter's laptop being "Russian Disinformation" was a bald-faced lie. That Trump built cages for kids was a bald-faced lie. The entire Steele Dossier was a bald-faced lie. Shall I go on?

5. So a politician collects campaign donation and you include that as some sort of corruption evidence? LOL...get serious.

6. I think droughts are bad and they happen. Solution...don't live in a desert.

 

1. That is laughable to me.
2. Ok so ?
3. This site is partisan ?  Huh ?  It's a mosaic of political views of all stripes.
4. Did they state that it was collusion or report somebody saying it was ?  Like a leaker or the FBI ?  All networks reported that WMDs were found in Iraq so they're all liars right ?  Right ?
5. If it's his personal worth then yes.  They're supposed to use that money for campaigns.  You knew that right ?  And again THE NEWS IS BULLSHIT.  Are you so f***cking gullible that you are debating fake news that I posted to point out what fake news is ?
6. That is also quite retarded.  You don't seem to care about the cause of one of the major disasters coming to the SW US and that wi impact Canada too.  You seem to be proud to be part of the problem of sugar-addicted morons sparring off between CNN and FOX.  This website used to have smart conservatives liberals socialists and libertarians talking about policy and now they're talking about the shit-news that runs the country.

Why am I even talking to you...

[Michael Hardner]

And I hate to be a dick about it, but it's really like being a rugby fan and trying to watch NFL or some such.

All good, but be assured that the conversations that I want to have are still happening, even if not in a political context.  They're happening in the lobbying rooms, and logistics planning conferences and political consultant rooms throughout the nation.

By choosing to make politics about rock 'em sock 'em robots, you surrender the real power IMO.

But enjoy your game.

[Nationalist]

2 hours ago, Michael Hardner said:

1. That is laughable to me.
2. Ok so ?
3. This site is partisan ?  Huh ?  It's a mosaic of political views of all stripes.
4. Did they state that it was collusion or report somebody saying it was ?  Like a leaker or the FBI ?  All networks reported that WMDs were found in Iraq so they're all liars right ?  Right ?
5. If it's his personal worth then yes.  They're supposed to use that money for campaigns.  You knew that right ?  And again THE NEWS IS BULLSHIT.  Are you so f***cking gullible that you are debating fake news that I posted to point out what fake news is ?
6. That is also quite retarded.  You don't seem to care about the cause of one of the major disasters coming to the SW US and that wi impact Canada too.  You seem to be proud to be part of the problem of sugar-addicted morons sparring off between CNN and FOX.  This website used to have smart conservatives liberals socialists and libertarians talking about policy and now they're talking about the shit-news that runs the country.

Why am I even talking to you...

3. My bad. I should have said "how partisan the users are".

1. and 2. So the POTUS is involved in a scam that is becoming impossible to deny. You can hope it'll go away...but it won't and its a HUGE issue.

4. Yes the WMD was a massive lie. And yes, the collusion story was a massive lie.

5. Are you so limp that you would just choke down the bile they shovel at you? You're the one always harping about believing the institutions. Are you saying the institution of new media is as corrupt as it appears to be now?

6. You shouldn't IMO. The time for limp acceptance and continuity of the status quo is now dangerous. Your "smart conservatives liberals socialists and libertarians" allowed this BS to fester and become a real threat to our way of life. A threat to society. Look at you now...rolling over again. The Fifth Estate has failed. Its now nothing more than a cheap neon highway billboard selling the latest horseshit du jour. Of those, FOX is far less part of the problem. The internet now owns real news.

[Great American]

8 hours ago, Michael Hardner said:

. . . . I have not followed the story and I really don't have the time to go down that rabbit hole. . . . .

That is your story in every thread: You don't know Jack, you don't want to know Jack, and you still make dumb comments anyway. Amazing. Aren't you embarrassed? You should be.

[Nationalist]

In the meantime...

Twitter refuses to prove that only 5% of their users are automated bots.

Musk has offered 40 some odd billion for the company and says he would make it what it should be. But he's now waffling over the percent of bots and Twitter won't produce real numbers.

I smell a Biden at the bottom of this.

[Michael Hardner]

Tucker reveals the great replacement theory is coming from the Democrats

 

The one thing that a cult demands is that you do not believe your own eyes and ears - only what they say.  FOX news completely downplays the Buffalo shooter being triggered by racist broadcasts from their own network and even omitted references to replacement theory and the shooter's manifesto.  

I guess that's the 'truth' around the FOX-Republican-violence cycle.  Mentally ill people being fed racist lies for profit is an excusable practice as long as we get the truth about Hunter Biden's laptop out there.   It's seeping over the border too - we even had a poster here call for the 'destruction' of Marxist-Democrats.

Politics is about communication, not calling for apocalyptic violence.





https://www.foxnews.com/opinion/tucker-democratic-party-change-electorate

 

[sharkman]

Where does the truth live?  Everywhere and no where, of course.  Today’s empty heads feel that truth is subject to their feelings and they can shape it to their will.

[Michael Hardner]

4 hours ago, sharkman said:

  Today’s empty heads feel that truth is subject to their feelings and they can shape it to their will.

Agreed.  So much anger and tribalism... making things personal when it doesn't help.

[eyeball]

On 5/9/2022 at 10:27 AM, Michael Hardner said:

I don't give a s**t about Biden, and I suspect you think that I LIKE him.  I don't.

It seems you need to be seen in the same hateful vengeful state as Nationalist to be taken seriously.

I'm reminded of stories of children being forced to kill their own parents to demonstrate and prove their loyalty to a dictator or warlord.

Edited June 16, 2022 by eyeball

[HaydenJenkins]

On 5/18/2022 at 4:09 PM, Michael Hardner said:

Tucker reveals the great replacement theory is coming from the Democrats

 

The one thing that a cult demands is that you do not believe your own eyes and ears - only what they say.  FOX news completely downplays the Buffalo shooter being triggered by racist broadcasts from their own network and even omitted references to replacement theory and the shooter's manifesto.  

I guess that's the 'truth' around the FOX-Republican-violence cycle.  Mentally ill people being fed racist lies for profit is an excusable practice as long as we get the truth about Hunter Biden's laptop out there.   It's seeping over the border too - we even had a poster here call for the 'destruction' of Marxist-Democrats.

Politics is about communication, not calling for apocalyptic violence.





https://www.foxnews.com/opinion/tucker-democratic-party-change-electorate

 

Thank you so much for sharing.