World Economic Forum (WEF) Influence on Canadian Policy

[Moonbox]

25 minutes ago, West said:

Just because someone can regurgitate what a university professor tells them doesn't make them intelligent. 

Not by default, but listening to and acknowledging a consensus of experts across the world and their expertise would be a sign of intelligence.  Listening to smarter, more knowledgeable people than you is a type of intelligence in an of itself. 

Reading stuff on social media and determining that you know better is the opposite of that.  

[West]

3 minutes ago, Moonbox said:

Not by default, but listening to and acknowledging a consensus of experts across the world and their expertise would be a sign of intelligence.  Listening to smarter, more knowledgeable people than you is a type of intelligence in an of itself. 

Reading stuff on social media and determining that you know better is the opposite of that.  

The "consensus of experts" act within an echo chamber and utters ultimatum and threats to anyway who strays away. 

I guess if leveraging power over licensing bodies etc to get their way builds consensus, then so be it lol

Edited March 18, 2022 by West

[Zeitgeist]

Imposing crushing restrictions and taxes on people‘s behaviour and energy supply is how the wealthy elites can tell themselves they’re saving the planet as they recover from their benders in Davos whilst eating caviar on the flight home.  Thanks for looking out for families and working people.  It must be such a personal sacrifice…

[Michael Hardner]

28 minutes ago, Zeitgeist said:

1. “Alt-right”?  Is that all you’ve got?  

2. I don’t even consider myself right-wing.  

3. You sound like Trudeau ...

4. Michelle Rempel downplays the WEF because she’s part of the WEF “young global leader” creepfest.

5. You’re basically an Internationalist collectivist 

6. Just don’t whine about the drop in living standards and our government’s quasi-totalitarian policies 

1. No - I said that they didn't complain when Harper did it.  When Trudeau did it, it was the end of civilization.  Also I had 7 other responses.

2. I don't care if you are or not - these talking points didn't come from you they came from alt-right news sources.

3. No, I just think it's weird that the world is ending if Trudeau does something.  I didn't agree with how he handled this, but to say "freedoms are being curtailed" is an overstatement to say the least.

4. "She's part of the conspiracy" is that all you've got ?  What about her points ?  Because she has been there you just throw them out ?

5. I already explained why that term is meaningless.

6. Conspiracy... yawn...

Try addressing my points.  I can acknowledge that Trudeau's response was heavy-handed, can you acknowledge that the concerns are overblown ?  That the WEF scare is a big nothing ?  That the word 'collectivist' is being used for scare mongering ?  That security sometimes needs to be updated to acknowledge present circumstances ?  That global problems require coordination ?

 

[Moonbox]

7 minutes ago, West said:

The "consensus of experts" act within an echo chamber and utters ultimatum and threats to anyway who strays away. 

The echo chamber spanning across borders, ideologies, institutions and even hostile competing nations?  Yeah...that definitely makes the most sense.    

[West]

1 minute ago, Michael Hardner said:

3. No, I just think it's weird that the world is ending if Trudeau does something.  I didn't agree with how he handled this, but to say "freedoms are being curtailed" is an overstatement to say the least.

I always find people who argue this are the ones where they were able to work from home and didn't miss a paycheque. If you were a small business owner who was forced to close down, a clergyman who missed several months pay because government threatened to board up their building if they dared showed up to the building, a parent who's child suffered from extreme anxiety, isolation or suicide attempts because they were isolated, etc then maybe you'd understand. 

To say no freedoms were curtailed, frankly, those people don't live in reality or don't care to acknowledge the very real societal impacts lockdowns and restrictions had on people. 

[West]

6 minutes ago, Moonbox said:

The echo chamber spanning across borders, ideologies, institutions and even hostile competing nations?  Yeah...that definitely makes the most sense.    

Most of the information comes from centralized authorities like the WHO or the CDC. There are certain people called "influencers". 

Yet you are the one peddling the conspiracy theory that every doctor is getting together and developing consensus ?. Your understanding on the role of government institutions and licensing bodies is astounding. 

Edited March 18, 2022 by West

[Michael Hardner]

7 minutes ago, Moonbox said:

The echo chamber spanning across borders, ideologies, institutions and even hostile competing nations?  Yeah...that definitely makes the most sense.    

The unifying theme of these conspiracy theories is that Canada should get out of all organizations... NATO, the UN, all of them are corrupt and bring us down.  We need a long undefended border with Russia if we really want to be free you see.  Just like Ukraine.

[West]

5 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said:

The unifying theme of these conspiracy theories is that Canada should get out of all organizations... NATO, the UN, all of them are corrupt and bring us down.  We need a long undefended border with Russia if we really want to be free you see.  Just like Ukraine.

Most of these organizations are more interested in political statements than actual science. It's evident. 

A few weeks earlier Fauci said masks were basically useless against Corona. Pelosi and the rest of the leftist cronies wanted to make a statement that masks meant that you care and if you didn't wear a mask you hate science and probably loved donnie and Putin. Immediately Fauci says that the masks are the savior. In mask we trust. ?.. but SCIENCE lol. 

In the vp debates, Harris said something to the effect of she was skeptical of the vaxx because of the limited research done on it. They finally win and automatically saying the same thing as Harris did would land you in the "anti science, pro Putin" camp. 

Docs who disagreed with the "consensus" had their licenses threatened. No conspiracy theory. Just reality there. 

Edited March 18, 2022 by West

[Michael Hardner]

9 minutes ago, West said:

1. Most of these organizations are more interested in political statements than actual science. It's evident. 

2. A few weeks earlier Fauci said masks were basically useless against Corona.

3. Pelosi and the rest of the leftist cronies ...

 

1. Well, countries are political entities so 'more interested' ... yeah, sure.  I would concur that the communication of issues can be overstated in order to get a response and that's a problem IMO
2. Did he say they were useless ?  If he did, which I wonder about, looks like he was wrong with that one.
3. Pelosi is not a leftist, sorry.  The Democrats enable corporate wealth-hoarding and the increase in private power which is about keeping their donors happy.

[West]

4 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said:

1. Well, countries are political entities so 'more interested' ... yeah, sure.  I would concur that the communication of issues can be overstated in order to get a response and that's a problem IMO
2. Did he say they were useless ?  If he did, which I wonder about, looks like he was wrong with that one.
3. Pelosi is not a leftist, sorry.  The Democrats enable corporate wealth-hoarding and the increase in private power which is about keeping their donors happy.

1. And the CDC or those "experts" we all listen to get a good bulk of their funding from tax payers. Hard to separate the fact that this so called "science" may actually be heavily influenced by political parties hoping to win elections. 

What i see is those who say "listen to the experts" are good at pointing out when those darn Republicans may be "influencing science". Not so good when it's their side that is doing it (confirmation bias). 

2. He said they may stop a droplet or two but aren't an effective tool against the spread of Rona. 

He was right initially. The only "studies" that show mask effectiveness should be taken with a grain of salt given the political element and the "we hate Donnie" nonsense. 

3. So you finally see the issues with the whole thing. Pandering to big pharma should be considered a factor when you look at why we are forcing people with zero risk to take a covid vax.

[West]

In Saskatchewan, the main "expert" they tout is a failed NDP political candidate trying to tell us how bad a man Scott Moe is. 

Hard to take the "appeal to authority" fallacy seriously when that's who you get on the news media

[Moonbox]

1 hour ago, West said:

Most of the information comes from centralized authorities like the WHO or the CDC. There are certain people called "influencers". 

and you don't think doctors in South Korea, or Turkey, or India can examine and filter the CDC's conclusions? 

1 hour ago, West said:

Yet you are the one peddling the conspiracy theory that every doctor is getting together and developing consensus ?. Your understanding on the role of government institutions and licensing bodies is astounding. 

Considering that virtually every country in the world treated COVID-19 as a real threat and had some sort of mandate/restrictions to combat it, and considering how heavily they all pushed vaccines, it's pretty silly to say there wasn't consensus on most (though maybe not all) of the major findings...but sure.  Tucker Carlson knows better - always.  

 

[Michael Hardner]

1 hour ago, West said:

In Saskatchewan, the main "expert" they tout is a failed NDP political candidate trying to tell us how bad a man Scott Moe is. 

Hard to take the "appeal to authority" fallacy seriously when that's who you get on the news media

Trying to parse this.  Maybe name the culprit?

[Michael Hardner]

1 hour ago, West said:

1. And the CDC or those "experts" we all listen to get a good bulk of their funding from tax payers. Hard to separate the fact that this so called "science" may actually be heavily influenced by political parties hoping to win elections. 

2. What i see is those who say "listen to the experts" are good at pointing out when those darn Republicans may be "influencing science". Not so good when it's their side that is doing it (confirmation bias). 

3. He said they may stop a droplet or two but aren't an effective tool against the spread of Rona. 

 

1. It doesn't follow.  Doug Ford disagreed with his experts, for example.  

2. I don't know what examples there are of Republicans influence science. 

3. Looks like he changed his mind.

 

 

[West]

2 hours ago, Moonbox said:

and you don't think doctors in South Korea, or Turkey, or India can examine and filter the CDC's conclusions? 

Considering that virtually every country in the world treated COVID-19 as a real threat and had some sort of mandate/restrictions to combat it, and considering how heavily they all pushed vaccines, it's pretty silly to say there wasn't consensus on most (though maybe not all) of the major findings...but sure.  Tucker Carlson knows better - always.  

 

1. You obviously weren't paying attention. When Doctors did question the validity of mandates (especially children) they faced issues from their licensing body. 

2. There was never a "consensus" on masks, nor is there "consensus" on vaccine mandates especially for children. Several states in the US didn't lock down nor did they impose vaccine mandates or forced masking as one example. Countries in Europe opted out of the child vaccine experiment. 

 

 

Edited March 19, 2022 by West

[West]

1 hour ago, Michael Hardner said:

1. It doesn't follow.  Doug Ford disagreed with his experts, for example.  

2. I don't know what examples there are of Republicans influence science. 

3. Looks like he changed his mind.

 

 

1. Who exactly are these "experts"? 

3. I know. That was my point. Only after Palosi wanted to make it a campaign issue did the "science" change. Mask science has been settled for years. Pelosi comes along and wants to go after Donny and viola they impose the face diaper. 

[Michael Hardner]

1 hour ago, West said:

1. Who exactly are these "experts"? 

2. I know. That was my point.

1. Public Health officials, and they know more than you.

2. Why did you call her a leftist?

[West]

39 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said:

1. Public Health officials, and they know more than you.

2. Why did you call her a leftist?

1. Like any deputy minister or person in those positions, they have to be political. 

2. Because she is

[Michael Hardner]

20 minutes ago, West said:

1. Like any deputy minister or person in those positions, they have to be political. 

2. Because she is

1. Uh huh.

2. Uhn nuh.

 

[West]

14 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said:

1. Uh huh.

2. Uhn nuh.

 

Yes they are all about science. 

It was easier for them to blame YOU for not wearing a mask then admit their incompetence was what led to a near collapse of health care. 

All anti vaxxers were the reason their policy didn't work. Ya okay

Edited March 19, 2022 by West

[Zeitgeist]

Nature is always the best.   Avoid meds if you can.   If you’re in crisis be thankful for modern medicine.  It’s a delicate balance between freedom and health and safety, but a life without freedom isn’t worth living.  Liberty is a condition of human health.  

[Moonbox]

17 hours ago, West said:

1. You obviously weren't paying attention. When Doctors did question the validity of mandates (especially children) they faced issues from their licensing body. 

What they generally faced issues with was promoting garbage science and issuing bullshit vaccine exemptions.  The licensing body disciplined nobody for merely questioning the justification for mandates.  

17 hours ago, West said:

2. There was never a "consensus" on masks, nor is there "consensus" on vaccine mandates especially for children. Several states in the US didn't lock down nor did they impose vaccine mandates or forced masking as one example. Countries in Europe opted out of the child vaccine experiment. 

and the results speak for themselves in a lot of these countries - particularly in the USA.  

[West]

24 minutes ago, Moonbox said:

What they generally faced issues with was promoting garbage science and issuing bullshit vaccine exemptions.  The licensing body disciplined nobody for merely questioning the justification for mandates.  

and the results speak for themselves in a lot of these countries - particularly in the USA.  

1. They are more an expert in their field than you are. When they raised concerns about lockdowns and children, they had their license threatened. You are fine with it because as a leftist your first reaction to someone disagreeing with you is to throw a tantrum like a child. What was really comical is people like you yelling "follow the science" while not having a degree in medicine and trying to impose draconian health restrictions on you.

The fact people like you have to threaten shows the science actually isn't on your side. You trample informed consent and have done irreparable damage to the scientific method. 

People like you aren't concerned about "the science". You are concerned about protecting your fragile little ego. 

2. The states that faired the worst (New York) also had some of the most draconian restrictions and mandates. There was no correlation between your mandates and better outcomes. In fact, you could argue wholisfically their health was in a worse space. 

Edited March 19, 2022 by West

[Zeitgeist]

The reason that extreme restrictions and vaccine mandates are unsustainable and ultimately immoral is that man does not live by bread alone.  There’s much more to life than mere physical survival.  We have a wide range of human needs: social, emotional, physical, spiritual…

Sacrificing all of these human needs to protect ourselves against one virus is extreme and anti-human.  I understand that early on people were very scared.  Having access to the vaccines was a great assurance against the first variants and Delta.  Now we have a mild form of Covid that most people can fight easily with their natural immunity, though the vaccines are added protection.  Omicron is everywhere, almost everyone who is vulnerable is vaccinated, PPE is widely available, and there are effective antiviral treatments available.   If I didn’t get tested a month ago, I wouldn’t have known I had Omicron.  It was minor.

Maintaining mandates is unsustainable after more than two years.  It’s also unnecessary, and many people believe, unconstitutional.  They have divided our country and created two-tier citizenship.    Even our federal Chief Medical Officer Dr. Tam has said we need to learn to live with Covid.

There were many different medical opinions about vaccines and Covid measures, but there was a consensus that became enforced.  We made our beds.  Did Canada do well?   I think we did relatively well on the death rate, but our democracy took a big hit and I’m not sure we’ll ever be as free as we were before the pandemic.  It’s a real worry.  Ask the Freedom Convoy protesters.