Heart and cancer surgeries are being cancelled because beds are filled with those who chose not to be vaccinated. Unacceptable.

Aristides · January 8, 2022

Just now, Winston said:

I would be happy to admit it, please provide the data that supports this.

We are looking for the same data.

The data you provided confirms it if the reason for the difference isn't vaccines.

Winston · January 8, 2022

6 minutes ago, Aristides said:

Well what's the reason for the higher percentage of unvaccinated in ICU's if it isn' vaccines?

That is exactly what I am trying to figure out, hence the question " are they (vaccinated and unvaccinated) hospitalize with COVID or because of COVID ",

Aristides · January 8, 2022

5 minutes ago, Shady said:

I do t know. What’s the reason fully vaccinated are overly represented in the ICU in Ontario. It shouldn’t be 50/50 should it? Shouldn’t the vast majority be unvaccinated? Isn’t that what should be expected?

It isn't 50/50. It's 20/3.5. It's clear you don't understand percentages.

Edited January 8, 2022 by Aristides

Aristides · January 8, 2022

3 minutes ago, Winston said:

That is exactly what I am trying to figure out, hence the question " are they (vaccinated and unvaccinated) hospitalize with COVID or because of COVID ",

No, you are trying to make a case that they aren't and by comparing groups you want to say they are counted differently. It's nothing but a conspiracy theory.

See Occam's Razor

CITIZEN_2015 · January 8, 2022

4 hours ago, Winston said:

Hospitalization cases:

Unvaccinated cases 441

Partially vaccinated cases 100

Fully vaccinated cases 1327

Says that right in the data

Putting facts to your numbers:

A Star analysis of data shows unvaccinated people have been admitted to the ICU at a rate 7 times higher and in the hospital overall 3.4 times higher than people who have been fully vaccinated.

Because of Ontario’s strong uptake in vaccines, fully vaccinated people account for a large percentage of the overall population. That means they would logically account for a higher percentage of people in hospital when looking at raw numbers.

https://www.thestar.com/news/gta/2022/01/04/ontario-reporting-1290-people-in-hospital-with-covid-19-266-in-icu-on-tuesday.html

Edited January 8, 2022 by CITIZEN_2015

Winston · January 8, 2022

1 minute ago, Aristides said:

The data you provided confirms it if the reason for the difference isn't vaccines.

We do not know this, we need data to confirm that is the case, this is simple data analysis.

If the vast majority of hospitalization cases are due to the comorbidities, than COVID is not a concern for the general public. But if the vast majority of hospitalization cases are due to COVID, then there is higher concern. If the hospitalization cases are in the 70+ age group, there is less of a concern. If the hospitalization cases are in the age of 40 or less, than there is greater concern.

How many of these hospitalization cases are due to cancer?

Shady · January 8, 2022

5 minutes ago, Aristides said:

It isn't 50/50. It's 20/3.5. It's clear you don't understand percentages.

In Ontario, there are 119 unvaccinated in the ICU vs 106 fully vaccinated. Why are the fully vaccinated so overly represented in the ICU?

Aristides · January 8, 2022

Just now, Winston said:

We do not know this, we need data to confirm that is the case, this is simple data analysis.

If the vast majority of hospitalization cases are due to the comorbidities, than COVID is not a concern for the general public. But if the vast majority of hospitalization cases are due to COVID, then there is higher concern. If the hospitalization cases are in the 70+ age group, there is less of a concern. If the hospitalization cases are in the age of 40 or less, than there is greater concern.

How many of these hospitalization cases are due to cancer?

Confirm what? Are you saying it is a conspiracy and they are counted differently? A little honesty would be nice.

CITIZEN_2015 · January 8, 2022

2 minutes ago, Shady said:

In Ontario, there are 119 unvaccinated in the ICU vs 106 fully vaccinated. Why are the fully vaccinated so overly represented in the ICU?

Read my post above this.

Aristides · January 8, 2022

2 minutes ago, Shady said:

In Ontario, there are 119 unvaccinated in the ICU vs 106 fully vaccinated. Why are the fully vaccinated so overly represented in the ICU?

You really don't understand percentages. I guess I understand now.

Edited January 8, 2022 by Aristides

Winston · January 8, 2022

4 minutes ago, Aristides said:

Confirm what? Are you saying it is a conspiracy and they are counted differently? A little honesty would be nice.

I am asking questions, you seem quite concerned that I am asking questions.

Nope not saying conspiracy, nope not saying they are counted differently.

Asking for transparent data.

In science we need data to prove our conclusion, we need data in order to confirm or counter our hypothesis. This is quite basic scientific methodology.

Edited January 8, 2022 by Winston

CITIZEN_2015 · January 8, 2022

4 minutes ago, Winston said:

I am asking questions, you seem quite concerned that I am asking questions.

You are also misrepresenting the facts. And the facts are that unvaccinated people have 7 times more risk of ICU admission and 3.4 times higher risk of hospitalization but your earlier figures hide the facts stated.

Edited January 8, 2022 by CITIZEN_2015

Aristides · January 8, 2022

3 minutes ago, Winston said:

I am asking questions, you seem quite concerned that I am asking questions.

Nope not saying conspiracy, nope not saying they are counted differently.

Asking for transparent data.

In science we need data to prove our conclusion, we need data in order to confirm our hypothesis. This is quite basic scientific methodology.

I'm not concerned about questions. You are suggesting that covid patients are counted as such on the basis of whether they are vaccinated or not. You are just looking for a conspiracy and maintaining health authorities are lying to you. Call me a liar and I will tell you to fuck off. I won't give you an explanation.

Edited January 8, 2022 by Aristides

Shady · January 8, 2022

3 minutes ago, Aristides said:

You really don't understand percentages. I guess I understand now.

You guys keep flipping between percentages and raw numbers when it suits your argument. Fine, if you want to look at raw numbers, no, unvaccinated people aren’t taking up all the hospital beds etc.

Shady · January 8, 2022

1 minute ago, CITIZEN_2015 said:

You are also misrepresenting the facts. And the facts are that unvaccinated people have 7 times more risks of ICU and 3.4 times higher risk of hospitalization but your earlier figures hide the facts stated.

You’re also flipping between percentages and raw numbers when it suits you. The raw numbers indicate that no, unvaccinated people aren’t taking up all the hospital beds. They’re evenly split.

Winston · January 8, 2022

8 minutes ago, CITIZEN_2015 said:

Putting facts to your numbers:

Who is filling up the most hospital beds CITIZEN_2015?

There is 1433 vaccinated in hospital beds

There is 560 unvaccinated in hospital beds

Vaccinated patients take 2.5 x more hospital beds than unvaccinated.

https://covid-19.ontario.ca/data/hospitalizations#vaccine-status-data

Your entire argument hinges on beds taken, with this idea than we should look to vaccine status as a point to blame. I would rather look to the people in charge, who get paid and who have responsibility to maintain the hospital.

Aristides · January 8, 2022

2 minutes ago, Shady said:

You guys keep flipping between percentages and raw numbers when it suits your argument. Fine, if you want to look at raw numbers, no, unvaccinated people aren’t taking up all the hospital beds etc.

The numbers don't lie Shady. You still don't seem to understand that the vaccinated and unvaccinated are not 50/50. They are more like 85/15. On that basis, the unvaccinated are taking up six times as many beds.

Aristides · January 8, 2022

3 minutes ago, Winston said:

Who is filling up the most hospital beds CITIZEN_2015?

There is 1433 vaccinated in hospital beds

There is 560 unvaccinated in hospital beds

Vaccinated patients take 2.5 x more hospital beds than unvaccinated.

https://covid-19.ontario.ca/data/hospitalizations#vaccine-status-data

Your entire argument hinges on beds taken, with this idea than we should look to vaccine status as a point to blame. I would rather look to the people in charge, who get paid and who have responsibility to maintain the hospital.

And the vaccinated account for 6 times the population. Are you guys really that obtuse?

CITIZEN_2015 · January 8, 2022

2 minutes ago, Winston said:

Who is filling up the most hospital beds CITIZEN_2015?

There is 1433 vaccinated in hospital beds

There is 560 unvaccinated in hospital beds

Vaccinated patients take 2.5 x more hospital beds than unvaccinated.

https://covid-19.ontario.ca/data/hospitalizations#vaccine-status-data

Your entire argument hinges on beds taken, with this idea than we should look to vaccine status as a point to blame. I would rather look to the people in charge, who get paid and who have responsibility to maintain the hospital.

As I said before ICU admissions are more important than hospital beds because lack of ICU beds causes cancellation of surgeries. Hospital beds can be put in the corridors and OVER HALF OF ICUs ARE OCCUPIED BY LESS THAN 10% OF UNVACCINATED POPULATION.

Shady · January 8, 2022

6 minutes ago, Winston said:

Who is filling up the most hospital beds CITIZEN_2015?

There is 1433 vaccinated in hospital beds

There is 560 unvaccinated in hospital beds

Vaccinated patients take 2.5 x more hospital beds than unvaccinated.

https://covid-19.ontario.ca/data/hospitalizations#vaccine-status-data

Your entire argument hinges on beds taken, with this idea than we should look to vaccine status as a point to blame. I would rather look to the people in charge, who get paid and who have responsibility to maintain the hospital.

They’ll flip to percentages now. ?

Winston · January 8, 2022

7 minutes ago, Aristides said:

I'm not concerned about questions. You are suggesting that covid patients are counted as such on the basis of whether they are vaccinated or not. You are just looking for a conspiracy and maintaining health authorities are lying to you. Call me a liar and I will tell you to fuck off. I won't give you an explanation.

"You are suggesting that covid patients are counted as such on the basis of whether they are vaccinated or not."

Please cite where I state or make this claim?

"I'm not concerned about questions."- Great than answer the question: is it possible that someone who tests positive for covid, is not hospitalized because of covid, say maybe for cancer?

CITIZEN_2015 · January 8, 2022

3 minutes ago, Aristides said:

The numbers don't lie Shady. You still don't seem to understand that the vaccinated and unvaccinated are not 50/50. They are more like 85/15. On that basis, the unvaccinated are taking up six times as many beds.

The fully vaccinated versus unvaccinated is 81/12 really.

CITIZEN_2015 · January 8, 2022

11 minutes ago, Winston said:

Vaccinated patients take 2.5 x more hospital beds than unvaccinated.

Are you seriously impaired to understand the simpler fact that vaccinated population is 8 times higher than unvaccinated???.

In spite of that the most important indicator, the ICU admission is almost equal between the two population.

Edited January 8, 2022 by CITIZEN_2015

Winston · January 8, 2022

2 minutes ago, CITIZEN_2015 said:

As I said before ICU admissions are more important than hospital beds because lack of ICU beds causes cancellation of surgeries. Hospital beds can be put in the corridors and OVER HALF OF ICUs ARE OCCUPIED BY LESS THAN 10% OF UNVACCINATED POPULATION.

If you want to talk about only ICU then yes I 100% agree that over half of ICUs are occupied by unvaccinated, (leaving out partially vaccinated).

But that brings me to the question, why? Why is a Vaccinated or unvaccinated person in ICU? Is it because of covid or is it because of another condition?