Trudeau on military misconduct: ‘I wish I could have done more’

[Army Guy]

Perhaps a liberal can explain this to me, How this bold face lie is not being called out... are we to believe that he does not have full disclosure to all his departments under his preview...It is not like this was a secret, this scandal has been ongoing for a long time now. Can't blame it on Harper, i mean he has been reelected 3 times, and on each election there has been issues with this very topic and yet nothing happened..." I wish i could have done more" is that the words of a PM, he does run the show right....or is he powerless. This is just another example of the liberal government flailing their arms around making some noises filling their mindless voters up with excuses... when are liberals going to wake up and see through all this shit... We don't need someone that just ignores problems we want leadership not excuses....

 Trudeau on military misconduct: ‘I wish I could have done more’ (msn.com)

[eyeball]

3 hours ago, Army Guy said:

when are liberals going to wake up and see through all this shit...

I'm sure most liberals do...I'm pretty sure you must mean Liberals but your nod to Harper also suggests you just can't help but smear the issue with just enough ideological shit to give it a stench that's more to your liking. 

As for the politicians I'll have you know I regard Trudeau as being amongst Canada's most overtly right-wing politicians. I can't think of very many who were more concerned about the distribution of power.

[WestCanMan]

Quote

“Looking back, there’s always things that we wish we had done more and faster. But when the very top levels of the military are insisting that there is no problem, it is a challenge for any government to say ‘OK, you’re wrong, we’re going to get rid of you all, we’re going to bring in an entirely new system,’” Trudeau said.

“I wish I could have done more. I wish I had -- I wish I had been able to do more.

I guess he didn't know that it was even a thing. Poor guy. 

Quote

The Trudeau government has known since taking office in 2015 that sexual misconduct was “endemic” throughout the military and that the culture of the Canadian Armed Forces (CAF) was “toxic” towards women and LGBTQ members.

Those were the words used by former Supreme Court Justice Marie Deschamps in her 2015 report on sexual misconduct in the military – an issue that dates back decades.

OK, so people who gave a shit knew, he just didn't know because he was too busy to find out. Or something like that. 

Whatever.

His tears are a huge hit with leftards, and he correctly identified that this wasn't an issue where he needed to blow snot bubbles to make his point so at least we were spared more of that.

Quote

sexual misconduct was “endemic” throughout the military and that the culture of the Canadian Armed Forces (CAF) was “toxic” towards women and LGBTQ members.

I always felt like abuse was celebrated in the military. 

The first thing that happens when you arrive at Cornwallis is you get 'abused' (by leftists standards) and it never really ends. They say "I'll rip off your face and show it to you while it's still screaming" or you're greasy civvis or slack and idle crows or fuckin ODs or hairy bags or run chicken run or m.i.c.k.e.y PPCLI, etc (don't say those last two things if you're a civilian). No matter what you do you'll get abused by higher-ups or members of the other services. In the army they say "The navy is for keeping gays out of the army", and in the navy they say that grunt stands for 'government rejects unfit for naval training' etc. 

One of my best friends worked for a CPO that was black who called him Alfalfa and he called that guy Buckwheat all the time. It's almost like an insult if people don't make fun of you. 

I'm sure that the vast majority of 'abuse' is basically nothing. There was a gay guy at the barracks where I lived in Halifax for the first 6 months of my trades training and there was a gay guy on my ship when I was out in Esquimalt and I never saw or heard of a single instance of either of them ever being teased or abused, aside from the same shit that everyone did, all the time.

Some people can't hack it and it's better to weed out snowflakes in peacetime than during war. Honestly, Trudeau is the exact kind of guy that would have been intentionally abused to the point where he'd quit. 

 

[eyeball]

It's easy to get the sense conservatives would be falling all over themselves lining up to suck GI Jane's dick.

 

 

Edited December 19, 2021 by eyeball

[Army Guy]

21 minutes ago, eyeball said:

It's easy to get the sense conservatives would be falling all over themselves lining up to suck GI Jane's dick.

 

 

Well thats was a hard deduction, must have had help with that,  it would have to be conservatives, eyeballing, the left could not stand up and defend themselves. To busy sucking on the governments tit to do anything else...I'm surprise you climbed down from your tree eyeball, neighbors must have moved and cut their intra net...forcing you to hook up to another conservative guy that pays the bills. 

[Army Guy]

2 hours ago, eyeball said:

I'm sure most liberals do...I'm pretty sure you must mean Liberals but your nod to Harper also suggests you just can't help but smear the issue with just enough ideological shit to give it a stench that's more to your liking. 

As for the politicians I'll have you know I regard Trudeau as being amongst Canada's most overtly right-wing politicians. I can't think of very many who were more concerned about the distribution of power.

Liberals are not that smart eyeball, they know where their checks are coming from, they wait for whats the next social program to be announced. They vote for him because they are just like him...void of any morals and values, gullible as shit, and as about as smart, keeping in mind Justin was only a drama teacher and we all know what kind of talent that takes.  

I learned from the best their eyeball, your lord and master made a living out of blaming Harper for everything, and today that stench is you eyeball take a shower, no shower in that tree of yours ?

Eyeball you've been a mental case since day one and you want us to trust your opinion on politics...now thats funney shit. 

[eyeball]

8 minutes ago, Army Guy said:

Liberals are not that smart eyeball,

Again, you refuse to take the time to make it clear if you mean Liberals or liberal. I can only assume you're unaware of the difference or are obsessively bent on giving the impression that only two things in the universe, conservatives and Conservatives, know the difference between right and wrong.

Quote

Eyeball you've been a mental case since day one

No that can't be it, my mom had me tested.

Quote

and you want us to trust your opinion on politics...now thats funney shit.

Actually I really just want you distrust some of your own opinions and assumptions, they're sorta funny but not ha ha funny if you know what I mean.

And just what the heck do you have against trees anyway?

[Army Guy]

59 minutes ago, WestCanMan said:

 

His tears are a huge hit with leftards, and he correctly identified that this wasn't an issue where he needed to blow snot bubbles to make his point so at least we were spared more of that.

I always felt like abuse was celebrated in the military. 

The first thing that happens when you arrive at Cornwallis is you get 'abused' (by leftists standards) and it never really ends. They say "I'll rip off your face and show it to you while it's still screaming" or you're greasy civvis or slack and idle crows or fuckin ODs or hairy bags or run chicken run or m.i.c.k.e.y PPCLI, etc (don't say those last two things if you're a civilian). No matter what you do you'll get abused by higher-ups or members of the other services. In the army they say "The navy is for keeping gays out of the army", and in the navy they say that grunt stands for 'government rejects unfit for naval training' etc. 

One of my best friends worked for a CPO that was black who called him Alfalfa and he called that guy Buckwheat all the time. It's almost like an insult if people don't make fun of you. 

I'm sure that the vast majority of 'abuse' is basically nothing. There was a gay guy at the barracks where I lived in Halifax for the first 6 months of my trades training and there was a gay guy on my ship when I was out in Esquimalt and I never saw or heard of a single instance of either of them ever being teased or abused, aside from the same shit that everyone did, all the time.

Some people can't hack it and it's better to weed out snowflakes in peacetime than during war. Honestly, Trudeau is the exact kind of guy that would have been intentionally abused to the point where he'd quit. 

 

Yes they are changing the entire system one of the first things they did was change to men's dress code, to be more inclusive, men are allowed to have man buns now, and wear make up, and female jewelry. Plus they have changed the promotion system so it to is inclusive, by promoting more LGBTQ, because promotions are not for people who deserve it, or perform well they are reserved to fill some politician white board and all them charts...but rather one based on your sexual prefaces, and ethic back ground, and those who are confused on what gender they are...

DND sexual assaults could mean you heard someone say something of a sexual nature, "like stop being a pussy" and thats that easy... poof your charged, want to ruin a career, all you have to do is accuse someone of anything it does not have to be proven just made public.....Now i agree if you rape or abuse someone they should face the law...19,000 cases have no expiration date, could be 30, 40, 50 years old if someone comes forward, guilty or not your career is finished...and if they clear themselves it is to late, the damage is down... and your out looking for a new job...

The rest of the country seems to think that it is only the Military that has this problem, that somehow that is what recruits are taught in training... This is liberals holding Canadians attention over here, while they do other shit over there. What a better target than the military, nobody really gives a F888 about those guys anyways.... 

 

[Army Guy]

3 minutes ago, eyeball said:

Again, you refuse to take the time to make it clear if you mean Liberals or liberal. I can only assume you're unaware of the difference or are obsessively bent on giving the impression that only two things in the universe, conservatives and Conservatives, know the difference between right and wrong.

No that can't be it, my mom had me tested.

Actually I really just want you distrust some of your own opinions and assumptions, they're sorta funny but not ha ha funny if you know what I mean.

And just what the heck do you have against trees anyway?

Does it matter really they are all the same, i mean really NDP, Green party, all cut from the same cloth...is that clear enough for you...

I no expert but i can tell your bat shit crazy with out a test...

You want to disprove my opinions , there is the floor big guy talk it up, tell everyone what you think....I stand by opinions, and i'll be man enough to let you know when i'm wrong...or your right...and personally i don't give a rats ass what you think eyeball. 

I got nothing against trees, just that it's the preferred BC hippy hang out, or BC protestor, one that you seem to fit in with. 

You sure your not TAXME, do you fart against the wind, or in small enclosed places, like closets,  according to Michael that is not a good indicator...

[eyeball]

2 hours ago, Army Guy said:

Does it matter really they are all the same, i mean really NDP, Green party, all cut from the same cloth...is that clear enough for you...

Is the cloth you're cut from as stereo-typical?

Quote

I no expert but i can tell your bat shit crazy with out a test...

You probably say that about anyone outside your platoon, you've said many times your bros in arms are all you ever really cared about.

Quote

You want to disprove my opinions , there is the floor big guy talk it up, tell everyone what you think....I stand by opinions, and i'll be man enough to let you know when i'm wrong...or your right...and personally i don't give a rats ass what you think eyeball.

You remember well over a decade ago when I said we should start stuffing empty cargo planes then with Afghan refugees and more to the point why? I told you then we'd completely cock things up and leave Afghans worse off than we found them. Was I right or wrong?

The cloth you're cut from never gave a rat's ass about them at all beyond leaning on them as a self-aggrandizing prop.

[ironstone]

Justin Trudeau's fan base is just big enough and   devoted enough to him that he actually doesn't have to actually do anything meaningful at all no matter the issue. I see him as very lightweight and a narcissist. But to his fans, his tremendous acting ability ? is good enough for them. Results don't really matter in the Wonderful World of Justin, he just has to pretend to want to solve the problem.

I am glad that some people have a great sense of  humour in here.  " I'll have you know I regard Trudeau as being amongst Canada's most overtly right-wing politicians."  Hilarious!!?

[eyeball]

20 minutes ago, ironstone said:

I am glad that some people have a great sense of  humour in here.  " I'll have you know I regard Trudeau as being amongst Canada's most overtly right-wing politicians."  Hilarious!!?

It's no joke according to the original use of the term right-wing that I provided. You'll never get it though if you can't at least entertain the idea that the distribution of power is the more relevant factor in the governance of any socio-economic system than the distribution of wealth. I'm assuming the redistribution of wealth is anathema to you so what about the redistribution of power?  Perhaps you think greed is just as good no matter what it's pursuing.  I'm pretty sure when people say greed is good they are also encompassing the idea that everyone benefits by the trickle down effect.  Where's the corollary to that in the case of power?

[ironstone]

23 minutes ago, eyeball said:

It's no joke according to the original use of the term right-wing that I provided. You'll never get it though if you can't at least entertain the idea that the distribution of power is the more relevant factor in the governance of any socio-economic system than the distribution of wealth. I'm assuming the redistribution of wealth is anathema to you so what about the redistribution of power?  Perhaps you think greed is just as good no matter what it's pursuing.  I'm pretty sure when people say greed is good they are also encompassing the idea that everyone benefits by the trickle down effect.  Where's the corollary to that in the case of power?

I personally think greed is one of the worst vices a person can have. Anyone that works hard and earns a lot of money I wouldn't really characterize as greedy. The distribution of power is a wide open subject. In Canada I think the provinces should have equal control over the same areas. It isn't really the case because Quebec is more equal than the rest but that's another topic.

I am opposed to the forced redistribution of wealth because of the leftist mindset that the accumulation of wealth is a bad thing. I believe there is a large segment of the population that truly do need assistance. But it goes back to the hand up vs the handout analogy. The Elon Musk's of this world help create much more wealth and a higher standard of living for more people than the Bernie Sanders types. I would lump Trudeau and most of his fellow Liberals in with Sanders too. Trudeau is no innovator, he was born into substantial wealth and seems to be pretty greedy, like his mother. He's wealthy but has had no problem charging charities hefty sums for speeches. He could have done so for free. I do make a distinction between those that truly need help and those who are able to contribute but are just too lazy.

[eyeball]

3 minutes ago, ironstone said:

The distribution of power is a wide open subject. In Canada I think the provinces should have equal control over the same areas.

So would you say you have no real issues with a provincial government holding its cards as close to its chest as a federal government?  Some FOI requests can take years at the federal level.

Quote

B.C. NDP passes controversial FOI bill that may mean fees for public information requests

https://bc.ctvnews.ca/b-c-ndp-passes-controversial-foi-bill-that-may-mean-fees-for-public-information-requests-1.5682119

This reminds me of efforts to make it more difficult for people to vote.  AFAIC FOI should require that governments apply to make its business secret - just about the exact opposite of what we have. FOI is just about the most Orwellian thing ever uttered by a government. 

[ironstone]

Unfortunately governments at all levels and political leanings are secretive, some being worse than others. They are all similar in that first and foremost they look after their own interests and then their cronies are next in line.

I have never tried to file a FOI before but I'm not surprised that it would be a very difficult process.

[Army Guy]

20 hours ago, eyeball said:

Is the cloth you're cut from as stereo-typical?

You probably say that about anyone outside your platoon, you've said many times your bros in arms are all you ever really cared about.

You remember well over a decade ago when I said we should start stuffing empty cargo planes then with Afghan refugees and more to the point why? I told you then we'd completely cock things up and leave Afghans worse off than we found them. Was I right or wrong?

The cloth you're cut from never gave a rat's ass about them at all beyond leaning on them as a self-aggrandizing prop.

Damn Skippy it is, and while politicians from both sides have had their wing nuts, nothing compares to Justin reign. I find conservatives to have better morals, values, they are willing to balance social programs with need not want. and everything out of their months are not lies or deceit ...

Why does that bother you ? , is it nessicary for me to like you. And your right,  the bond i have with my comrades in arms is a strong one, they are family. And we look after each other the best we can... is that what bothers you... or is it i don't care much for the average Canadian, i wonder why that is ? 

I remember you and other spouting off about all kinds of things that you had no idea about, shit you were even to research some of it on goggle...don't you worry alot of Canadians think the same way as you do...like you actually contributed something. 

"WE" did not cock anything up in Afghanistan, that you can put at the feet of the governments of the time, and their supporters, that would be you and your gang Skippy, after public opinion had took a drastic turn, the taps where turned off, like they were ever turned on in the first place...while our soldiers carried this mission on their backs alone what was it Canadians did again...Ya they whined like someone was tearing out finger nails...

Well we gave them 13 years without the Taliban, we built a dam for hydro power, paved hundreds of kms of highways and trade routes, we built millions of new wells so they could have clean drinking water, and countless other things, and when the taps where turned off, soldiers bought out of their own pockets ambulances, fire trucks, we built schools,  extended hospital wings with more room and beds, ya we cocked things up but we left Afghanistan better than when we found it... 

Again you don't know what your talking about, currently Canadian vets are actively working to find as many Afghanis in Afghanistan  that worked for us during the conflict, and smuggling them out, every cent for this adventure is paid out vets pockets , private donations and soldiers pockets, .....while our federal government is still trying to find its ass...what did you do again... yes you want me to stop whining, and forget completely a conflict long past it's time... that would be easy as you have nothing invested in Afghanistan do you....and I will once our nation steps up and truly returns benefits we once had,  and upgrades other benefits so we have the same level as any other Canadian I'll stop, so sit down it's going to be awhile....   

[WestCanMan]

8 minutes ago, Army Guy said:

Why does that bother you ? , is it nessicary for me to like you. And your right,  the bond i have with my comrades in arms is a strong one, they are family. And we look after each other the best we can... is that what bothers you... or is it i don't care much for the average Canadian, i wonder why that is ? 

Not many people form bonds with other adults that are as close as the ones formed in the military. It's just a fact of life.

Humans always need to have close personal relationships with others in order to be healthy, and when young adults leave home to live thousands of miles away, as they do in the military, that need is just way stronger. Throw in the stress of working 100+ hr weeks and [in your case, not mine] the danger of working in the theatre of war/peacekeeping and it's at a crazy level. The need for trust is unparalleled in the civilian world outside of maybe law enforcement.

I've had a few good friends from every place that I ever worked but I'm not in contact with many of them anymore. My longest close civilian friendship is about 18 years but I still have friends from the navy that I see when I can. I got out 31 years ago. I'll never stop being friends with those guys. 

[eyeball]

39 minutes ago, Army Guy said:

Damn Skippy it is, and while politicians from both sides have had their wing nuts, nothing compares to Justin reign. I find conservatives to have better morals, values, they are willing to balance social programs with need not want. and everything out of their months are not lies or deceit ...

Why does that bother you ? , is it nessicary for me to like you.

No but you'll have to stop hating people for being liberal simply because you hate Liberals if you expect to get any respect.  By the same token you'll also have to recognize some liberals can also have conservative views without defaulting to disbelief and coming unglued over it.  

 

47 minutes ago, Army Guy said:

"WE" did not cock anything up in Afghanistan, that you can put at the feet of the governments of the time, and their supporters, that would be you and your gang

No, "WE" is Canada. That's OUR gang and our cock up. I still take responsibility for it. People of your cloth look for scapegoats and others to pin your share of the blame on and in so doing you deceive yourselves far more than anyone else does by identifying anyone outside your wire as the enemy - you've gaslit yourselves into a state of utter stupefaction.

[Army Guy]

2 minutes ago, eyeball said:

No but you'll have to stop hating people for being liberal simply because you hate Liberals if you expect to get any respect.  By the same token you'll also have to recognize some liberals can also have conservative views without defaulting to disbelief and coming unglued over it.  

 

No, "WE" is Canada. That's OUR gang and our cock up. I still take responsibility for it. People of your cloth look for scapegoats and others to pin your share of the blame on and in so doing you deceive yourselves far more than anyone else does by identifying anyone outside your wire as the enemy - you've gaslit yourselves into a state of utter stupefaction.

I don't hate liberals, hate is to strong word, They may not be my favorite people, but i don't hate them,  and it's not just Liberals it's the entire left side of the political spectrum. And your right some do have some right wing views, but thats not a common trait. If you support or voted for Justin more than once after knowing what he had done, then i believe that person lacks moral character, and does not share the same values as i do.

I'm not here to be voted class president, or poster of the year.  I'm here to listen to other opinions and comment on them maybe learn something along the way.  And not everyone is going to like me or my opinions. 

Me and you have spared over this topic for years, and my opinion is not going to change, neither will yours. 

And NO "WE" does not include any military members that served over there, we did what our government told us to do, and much much more, and it was not to hand out blankets it was to close with and destroy them... we did not cock anything up...perhaps you can shed some light on what we cocked up ? and why we should share some of the blame here..... what little resources our nation gave us to do the job we worked miracles with. We did all the heavy lifting , we contributed our blood sweat and tears, back home only whined and cried, about everything really... People like you and our previous governments cocked everything up, our government both liberal and conservative did everything they could to ruin that mission, as for the people, once the mission became unpopular the government cut the funding....The entire mission funding came out of DND budget, at the price of new equipment, training, basic supplies, ammo to train with...the list is endless, perhaps you can explain to me what the left contributed. crickets...

Years ago when you were forced to give up fishing, did you have polite things to say about the feds fisheries dept. who you said mismanaged the entire fisheries,  even the province had hands in all those decisions, did you welcome them with open arms handing out hugs and kisses... no you did not, you where pissed and you let everyone know about it. I don't recall anyone telling you where gaslighting.

The way our military and our vets are treated in this country is disgusting, and everyone knows about all of it, the ,media has reported extensively on this for years and years... it has never been an election point, it has never been discussed seriously by the liberal government, yes Justin did move a few things that benefited vets but nothing substantial, mean while hundreds of vets are still fighting our government in courts for benefits, like having to prove every year the legs you lost in battle have not grown back.... my grand son can tell you that is not going to happen... these benefits most Canadians already enjoy. and yet all we here from the majority of Canadians is silence. the problem will not get recognition by the people being silent. The suicide rate for vets since 2014 has reached well over 450, thats twice as many that died on the battle field. thousands live in the streets homeless, they become addicts and fad into the history books... And now your asking me to stop whining put it all behind me...and you wonder why a lot of vets are sour when it comes to regular Canadians, because they are the enemy right now...

We can have a white girl serving her prison sentence in a sweat lodge in BC returned back to a regular prison in a few weeks because Canadians let their voices be heard... But we can not find the time to look after our vets...and you still want us to salute the flag and pretend we are happy. "Maybe this time you guys are asking for more than we can give"

 

 

[eyeball]

12 hours ago, Army Guy said:

Years ago when you were forced to give up fishing, did you have polite things to say about the feds fisheries dept. who you said mismanaged the entire fisheries,  even the province had hands in all those decisions, did you welcome them with open arms handing out hugs and kisses... no you did not, you where pissed and you let everyone know about it. I don't recall anyone telling you where gaslighting.

You should recall that because when it became apparent to me just how opaque and unaccountable much of our governance is and just how much that contributed to the mismanagement I started wondering why Canadians put up with it and wtf was wrong with them.   I guess I have a way of asking that question that grates against the grain.  

 

13 hours ago, Army Guy said:

The way our military and our vets are treated in this country is disgusting, and everyone knows about all of it, the ,media has reported extensively on this for years and years...

Same thing with fisheries, everyone knows so either you get in line or I get in line while we get our respective issues straightened out or we perhaps realize we might kill two birds with one stone by straightening out Ottawa.   This is where it all breaks down however because well...I think you like so many other Canadians are too much the team players when it comes to the ideology and politics embedded in our governance.  Note how I never blame fisheries problems on any one particular party or even jurisdiction and I subscribe to a pox-on-all-their-houses approach.  That's because the problem is rooted in how we govern ourselves not who is governing us.  Approaching the problem this way for whatever reasons seems to trigger a visceral reaction amongst many Canadians that amounts to nothing less than a defence of the status quo and which seems to rapidly default to more partisan polarized defence of our institutions no matter how rotten they are.  Maybe its the likelihood that so much of what we need to do to make our systems of accountability as robust as possible will require constitutional changes and that's just too verboten a concept I guess.

Like you I've concluded the problem is ultimately with Canadians themselves. Unlike me though you are too easily distracted by ideology to maintain what is a correct conclusion and default to ideological partisanship.  No, we'll never see eye to eye but I fully realize I'm the outlier here.  I'm actually pretty resigned to the fact we're fucked and none of us are getting out of this alive and it'll always be a challenge to resist flinging a few peanuts and told-you-so's from the gallery.  My bad I know.

[Army Guy]

23 hours ago, eyeball said:

1. You should recall that because when it became apparent to me just how opaque and unaccountable much of our governance is and just how much that contributed to the mismanagement I started wondering why Canadians put up with it and wtf was wrong with them.   I guess I have a way of asking that question that grates against the grain.  

 

2.  Same thing with fisheries, everyone knows so either you get in line or I get in line while we get our respective issues straightened out or we perhaps realize we might kill two birds with one stone by straightening out Ottawa.   This is where it all breaks down however because well...I think you like so many other Canadians are too much the team players when it comes to the ideology and politics embedded in our governance.  Note how I never blame fisheries problems on any one particular party or even jurisdiction and I subscribe to a pox-on-all-their-houses approach.  That's because the problem is rooted in how we govern ourselves not who is governing us.  Approaching the problem this way for whatever reasons seems to trigger a visceral reaction amongst many Canadians that amounts to nothing less than a defence of the status quo and which seems to rapidly default to more partisan polarized defence of our institutions no matter how rotten they are.  Maybe its the likelihood that so much of what we need to do to make our systems of accountability as robust as possible will require constitutional changes and that's just too verboten a concept I guess.

3.. Like you I've concluded the problem is ultimately with Canadians themselves. Unlike me though you are too easily distracted by ideology to maintain what is a correct conclusion and default to ideological partisanship.  No, we'll never see eye to eye but I fully realize I'm the outlier here.  I'm actually pretty resigned to the fact we're fucked and none of us are getting out of this alive and it'll always be a challenge to resist flinging a few peanuts and told-you-so's from the gallery.  My bad I know.

1. I did not fully understand your point back then until i was thinking of my last response to you, then it hit me you have experience something similar, with out all the death and suicide, atleast on the level of losing your means of making a living because of Government interference and them not knowing what they were doing...also the fact that Canadians around you were not in the least effected by it , nor did they seem to be interested in what you had to say, i include myself in that. I get it i was being a dick...

2. Our nation is not that ambitious, we are afraid to take on anything hard, or matters that require to much effort. and in my opinion we would need to take apart a shit ton of laws and policies and ways of thinking and build something new, again we do not seem to want to do the work nor are we capable right now.

Your right my ideology is very distracting, and i can not process how the left thinks , nor understand their actions to me it is alien and does not make any sense at all. In my case vets and the military best interests very rarely come from the left, a while the right has failed in this department as well they lead in that area by a giant step. which is my default position . 

That is the problem with todays world , or atleast in our country, very few people are interests in listening or debating anything there are no compromising it is their way or the high way... not just on the left but also on the right, our nation is so divided it gets to complicated to even express your opinions without some one getting offended or going of the deep end. It is not a verboten process, we just don't have the energy or drive to handle that, i think it comes from being to lazy...and we are afraid of offending someone. 

3. I am very distracted by ideology, nor do i have any solutions to unite everyone with a similar goals, and i don't think many others do. It is easy to say we all have to come to together to defeat a come enemy...but getting everyone on the same page seems to be mission imposable. I don't think we are doomed, but i don't think we are getting out of all these problems with all our arms and legs...

Flicking peanuts seem to be one of my specialties and it is way to easy to do. I was a dick like i said before for,  that I'm sorry,  it was uncalled for. I want to thank you for being the bigger man and continuing your post while i was to busy being deaf to your opinion and being a dick.  

[eyeball]

On 12/21/2021 at 10:50 AM, Army Guy said:

1. I did not fully understand your point back then until i was thinking of my last response to you, then it hit me you have experience something similar, with out all the death and suicide, atleast on the level of losing your means of making a living because of Government interference and them not knowing what they were doing...also the fact that Canadians around you were not in the least effected by it , nor did they seem to be interested in what you had to say, i include myself in that. I get it i was being a dick...

There was anger, family dysfunction, divorce, bankruptcy and even suicide stemming from our dispossession, not on the scale you've experienced but dispossession doesn't have to be violent and there may not have been anyone trying to kill or disappear us but it can still be damaging to the point it can crush people's spirits, especially when its something as all powerful as a government doing the dispossessing.  My own gun is rusting away on the bottom where I tossed it after chambering a round amidst a flurry of dark thoughts - instead I sat and watched the sun go down thru the wheelhouse window called it a career and went home.  Loggers went thru all this hereabouts as well too...there were lots of universal nonpartisan themes that made it easier when amongst others going thru the same thing.  Perhaps you can glean some insight as to why I might be sympathetic towards people in other countries who find themselves being dispossessed and having their lives and world violently interfered with by some distant uncaring government.  I'll never forget the day I was working with an unemployed logger who like me had been hired to restore fish habitat and deactivate old logging roads and such.  One day they sent us off with a truck load of diesel and ammonium nitrate and I couldn't help but ask my buddy, 'anything wrong with this picture...a pissed off fisherman and logger driving around with enough explosives to...'  'No!' he almost shouted 'I wasn't thinking about that at all'.   

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2. Our nation is not that ambitious, we are afraid to take on anything hard, or matters that require to much effort. and in my opinion we would need to take apart a shit ton of laws and policies and ways of thinking and build something new, again we do not seem to want to do the work nor are we capable right now.Your right my ideology is very distracting, and i can not process how the left thinks , nor understand their actions to me it is alien and does not make any sense at all.

I'm not surprised given the apparent mis-characterizations about lefties that seem to populate your thinking.  My apologies and especially to other lefties if I've had anything to do with creating these impressions lol.

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In my case vets and the military best interests very rarely come from the left, a while the right has failed in this department as well they lead in that area by a giant step. which is my default position . 

Not mine, Ottawa is what left us high and dry, it didn't matter a single bit who or what was in power. It's always about how that power was used and abused that's mattered to me, full stop. Ottawa mismanaged us into oblivion pure and simple. Thinking about it this way makes it much easier to see where and what the problem really is.

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That is the problem with todays world , or atleast in our country, very few people are interests in listening or debating anything there are no compromising it is their way or the high way... not just on the left but also on the right, our nation is so divided it gets to complicated to even express your opinions without some one getting offended or going of the deep end. It is not a verboten process, we just don't have the energy or drive to handle that, i think it comes from being to lazy...and we are afraid of offending someone. 

I think it comes from how we govern ourselves and the manner by which virtually all official business having to do with  the public's domain is conducted behind a thick layer of secrecy and obfuscation. I think after years and years of the uncertainty and not knowing about who or what to trust and the cynicism, my god the cynicism - is it any wonder so many Canadians are so polarized against one another?   

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3. I am very distracted by ideology, nor do i have any solutions to unite everyone with a similar goals, and i don't think many others do. It is easy to say we all have to come to together to defeat a come enemy...but getting everyone on the same page seems to be mission imposable. I don't think we are doomed, but i don't think we are getting out of all these problems with all our arms and legs...

Recall my mentioning how DFO managed me with a black box using GPS tracking and cameras to monitor my fishing activities...like an untrustworthy criminal? No, I actually came to embrace the technology and methods and above all else the purpose of it which is to ultimately protect the public's interest in seeing to it that their fish stocks are being utilized and managed appropriately.  If I'm distracted by anything its my conviction that we should monitor our government very similarly and for the exact same reason. Strangely though I find there is an almost universal tendency of lefties and righties alike to look at me like I'm nuts for thinking this might be possible.

I've said it before and will until the day I die that simply outlawing private sector lobbying may be the one and only thing we need to do to protect our shared interest in accountability and having a government we can all depend on. No need for rewriting the constitution or separating at all. 

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Flicking peanuts seem to be one of my specialties and it is way to easy to do. I was a dick like i said before for,  that I'm sorry,  it was uncalled for. I want to thank you for being the bigger man and continuing your post while i was to busy being deaf to your opinion and being a dick.

I apologize too if I seemed like I was being a dick that was indifferent to the plights of our soldiers.  I'm really not but my thinking gets complicated when I see our generals clustering around in the background lending photo-op support when our political leaders lead us off into some war - especially with allies possessed of so me very dubious morality, especially as it relates to interfering in other parts of the world and often dispossessing people of their lives.  What certainly doesn't matter to me is if its a left or right or conservative or Liberal or liberal or a conservative government, when they participate in this and we don't speak up we all have the same filthy pox on us.

Edited December 23, 2021 by eyeball

[eyeball]

6 minutes ago, eyeball said:

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Edited December 23, 2021 by eyeball