Our national pride - Canadian women's soccer team wins gold-medal.

[Yzermandius19]

9 minutes ago, bcsapper said:

I think their thinking might align with mine sometimes.  If you say so.

Good to know, really.

that is the case with others as well

they may not know who is responsible for influencing their thinking

but that influence exists regardless

you stand on the shoulders of giants

as do we all

you may think you are flying

because you are so high in the air

and don't look directly down so you can see the giant's shoulders

that you stand on

but you're not flying

 

humans didn't invent the world from scratch, the moment you were born

the past matters

as do the great thinkers of the past

what they have done echoes for an eternity

and forms much of the basis for what you see around you

Edited August 7, 2021 by Yzermandius19

[OftenWrong]

19 hours ago, bcsapper said:

No, it's not bigotry.  It's just a fact.

I assume you're talking about Ice Hockey.  Boring game, like Basketball.  Still, I bet at the same level of competition, you would never put your own money on the women.

 

Guess you’re not listening to me, but so what. 

I do not say women are “just as good as men”.

I say women are also good but in a different way. Vive la difference.

Would I bet that the Canadian womens football could kick the Canadian men’s teams ass?

Sure I would.

Only a jackass would think the men will always win in a contest.

 

[Yzermandius19]

34 minutes ago, OftenWrong said:

Would I bet that the Canadian womens football could kick the Canadian men’s teams ass?

Sure I would.

Only a jackass would think the men will always win in a contest.

ha ha ha

the women's team would lose 100 times out of 100

[Guest]

2 hours ago, OftenWrong said:

Guess you’re not listening to me, but so what. 

I do not say women are “just as good as men”.

I say women are also good but in a different way. Vive la difference.

Would I bet that the Canadian womens football could kick the Canadian men’s teams ass?

Sure I would.

Only a jackass would think the men will always win in a contest.

 

I guess you're not listening to me, but I said at the same level of competition.  The Women's team are currently ranked 8th in the world.  That would be Argentina for the men.  I know Messi is getting on a bit, but still.

The Wagon and Horses Bradford Sunday League side after a good Saturday night would kick the Canadian men’s team's ass.

And I still wouldn't put any of my money on the Canadian women beating the Canadian men.   It would certainly be a spectacle though.

[Yzermandius19]

10 minutes ago, bcsapper said:

And I still wouldn't put any of my money on the Canadian women beating the Canadian men.   It would certainly be a spectacle though.

a one sided ass kicking, that would be

betting on the women would just be throwing your money away

Edited August 8, 2021 by Yzermandius19

[Galloway]

On 8/7/2021 at 5:03 AM, Michael Hardner said:

Just another opinion, agree with it or don't.  It's not a threat or anything.

Trump's primary campaign strategy is always to use fear and hate to energize his base, no matter what the topic.    People standing against racism and bigotry is seen as a HUGE threat by most White Conservatives.

[Yzermandius19]

4 minutes ago, Galloway said:

Trump's primary campaign strategy is always to use fear and hate to energize his base, no matter what the topic.    People standing against racism and bigotry is seen as a HUGE threat by most White Conservatives.

when the people "standing against racism and bigotry" are far more racist and bigoted than the White Conservatives they project their own racism on

that is a threat

they are Orwellian af

the biggest group of racists going around shouting about the imagined racism from others who disagree with their racism, as somehow proving everyone else are the real racists

Edited August 8, 2021 by Yzermandius19

[Galloway]

1 minute ago, Yzermandius19 said:

when the people "standing against racism and bigotry" are far more racist and bigoted than the White Conservatives they decry, yeah they clearly are

How did you get to the point where you let people tell you black is white, and wrong is right?

[Yzermandius19]

2 minutes ago, Galloway said:

How did you get to the point where you let people tell you black is white, and wrong is right?

I can ask you the same the question

the "anti-racists" are the biggest racists of them all

war is peace level orwellian doublespeak

and you fall for that garbage

Edited August 8, 2021 by Yzermandius19

[Galloway]

1 minute ago, Yzermandius19 said:

I can ask you the same the question

the "anti-racists" are the biggest racists of them all

war is peace level orwellian doublespeak

Exactly what I said, you think black is white, that anti-racists are the biggest racists.   That's some crazy brainwashing going on there.  Do you use sources other than FOX News?

[Yzermandius19]

the woke anti-racists are just next level absurd

it would be like if a group claiming to be the ultimate American patriots

went around chanting "Death to America!"

and said that anyone who pointed out that they really hate America

and don't love it at all

were the real America haters

but then a large of group of idiots actually believe

they are somehow the biggest pro-America group around

it's straight up dystopic

Edited August 8, 2021 by Yzermandius19

[Yzermandius19]

4 minutes ago, Galloway said:

Exactly what I said, you think black is white, that anti-racists are the biggest racists.   That's some crazy brainwashing going on there.  Do you use sources other than FOX News?

what they think is racism is actually anti-racism

and what they think is anti-racism is racism

they are the ones who can't tell black from white

and neither can you

Edited August 8, 2021 by Yzermandius19

[Michael Hardner]

@Yzermandius19 and @Galloway - please continue to discuss as I step back.

I'm hoping you can progress this discussion beyond just critiques of tropes, symbols and stereotypes.  It's difficult, though, because there is no 'woke' organization or manifesto that we can gather around to compare against others.

[OftenWrong]

5 hours ago, Michael Hardner said:

@Yzermandius19 and @Galloway - please continue to discuss as I step back.

I'm hoping you can progress this discussion beyond just critiques of tropes, symbols and stereotypes.  It's difficult, though, because there is no 'woke' organization or manifesto that we can gather around to compare against others.

You didn’t mention sappersucker though.

# personal bias

 

[OftenWrong]

7 hours ago, bcsapper said:

I guess you're not listening to me, but I said at the same level of competition.  The Women's team are currently ranked 8th in the world.  That would be Argentina for the men.  I know Messi is getting on a bit, but still.

The Wagon and Horses Bradford Sunday League side after a good Saturday night would kick the Canadian men’s team's ass.

And I still wouldn't put any of my money on the Canadian women beating the Canadian men.   It would certainly be a spectacle though.

Its still comparing apples and oranges to some extent because, as I said earlier, women’s sports are also underfunded. Therefore it doesn’t bring out the best in their athleticism.

But again if they wore better uniforms, that would bring more money in. Admit it, you guys would watch then...

 

[Yzermandius19]

4 hours ago, OftenWrong said:

Its still comparing apples and oranges to some extent because, as I said earlier, women’s sports are also underfunded. Therefore it doesn’t bring out the best in their athleticism.

But again if they wore better uniforms, that would bring more money in. Admit it, you guys would watch then...

 

women's sports are overfunded

men's sports and/or government handouts have to fund women's sports because women's sports can't fund themselves

even if they made as much as men, that would not close the athleticism gap,  not even close

Edited August 9, 2021 by Yzermandius19

[OftenWrong]

6 minutes ago, Yzermandius19 said:

women's sports are overfunded

men's sports and/or government handouts have to fund women's sports because women's sports can't fund themselves

even if they made as much as men, that would not close the athleticism gap,  not even close

I didnt say they deserve more government handout money. But the big money is in men’s sports, there is no question.

[Yzermandius19]

10 hours ago, Michael Hardner said:

@Yzermandius19 and @Galloway - please continue to discuss as I step back.

I'm hoping you can progress this discussion beyond just critiques of tropes, symbols and stereotypes.  It's difficult, though, because there is no 'woke' organization or manifesto that we can gather around to compare against others.

there is multiple manifestos

White Fragility and How to be an Anti-Racist were New York Times Bestsellers

the woke have thought leaders, like Ibram X Kendi and Robin DiAngelo, you just never read what they have to say, and want to believe the woke are some purely amorphous group who just want "social justice", which you also probably think is an amorphous concept no one can disagree with, as if the woke thought leaders haven't already defined what that means and made it an inherently racist concept

when I say the anti-racists are the biggest racists going, I am not just singling out the worst of the woke who have no influence on the larger movement, I am singling out their most prominent figures with the most influence of the larger movement

figures who openly state that the only way to fight racism is with racism targeted towards the groups they view as the most racist, which is no longer racist now, but "anti-racism", repressive tolerance they call it

you just never heard of them or their ideas in detail,  because you spend too much of your focus on racism on the right, to pay enough attention to the extremists on the left, because you misguidedly believe the right wing racism is worse and more numerous and the left wing racists are some right wing boogeyman

Edited August 9, 2021 by Yzermandius19

[Galloway]

On 8/8/2021 at 9:21 AM, Michael Hardner said:

@Yzermandius19 and @Galloway - please continue to discuss as I step back.

I'm hoping you can progress this discussion beyond just critiques of tropes, symbols and stereotypes.  It's difficult, though, because there is no 'woke' organization or manifesto that we can gather around to compare against others.

I was surprised as anyone to see people defending racists by gaslighting us with "being anti-racist means you're the real racist," in a thread about the Canadian National Women's Soccer Team.   I think you are correct, and I will quit discussing it here.  ?

Edited August 9, 2021 by Galloway

[Yzermandius19]

22 minutes ago, Galloway said:

I was surprised as anyone to see you and others defending racists by gaslighting us with "being anti-racist means you're the real racist," in a thread about the Canadian National Women's Soccer Team.   I think it would be great if you guys quit doing that, but that's up to you.  ?

the anti-racists literally say that if you don't judge people on their group identities and instead on their character, that you are racist

they think that judging people based on their race is "anti-racist"

MLK is now a white supremacist to these clowns

they are the one's gaslighting you, they are the racists

they think what makes you anti-racist is admitting how racist you are against non-whites and vowing to be racist against white people instead from now on

that is what they think "anti-racism" is, it so bizarre, you can't make this up, the truth is stranger than fiction

the people who espouse this nonsense become NYT Bestsellers and are lauded as saintly visionaries by the woke mainstream media

Edited August 9, 2021 by Yzermandius19

[Galloway]

14 minutes ago, Yzermandius19 said:

the anti-racists literally say that if you don't judge people on their group identities and instead on their character, that you are racist

they think that judging people based on their race is "anti-racist"

MLK is now a white supremacist to these clowns

they are the one's gaslighting you, they are the racists

they think what makes you anti-racist is admitting how racist you are against non-whites and vowing to be racist against white people instead from now on

that is what they think "anti-racism" is, it so bizarre, you can't make this up, the truth is stranger than fiction

the people who espouse this nonsense become NYT Bestsellers and are lauded as saintly visionaries by the woke mainstream media

Thank you for proving my point so elegantly.

[Yzermandius19]

8 minutes ago, Galloway said:

Thank you for proving my point so elegantly.

you're the one gaslighting people by pretending that racists are actually the champions of fighting racism, just because they say they are

you just don't know you are, because you believe their lies, and are the victim of their gaslighting

Edited August 9, 2021 by Yzermandius19

[Michael Hardner]

8 hours ago, Yzermandius19 said:

 

1. White Fragility and How to be an Anti-Racist were New York Times Bestsellers

2. the woke have thought leaders, like Ibram X Kendi and Robin DiAngelo,

3. you just never read what they have to say,

4. and want to believe the woke are some purely amorphous group who just want "social justice", which you also probably think is an amorphous concept no one can disagree with, as if the woke thought leaders haven't already defined what that means and made it an inherently racist concept

5. I am singling out their most prominent figures with the most influence of the larger movement

6.you just never heard of them or their ideas in detail,  because you spend too much of your focus on racism on the right, to pay enough attention to the extremists on the left, because you misguidedly believe the right wing racism is worse and more numerous and the left wing racists are some right wing boogeyman

1. Excellent. You have done a great job of finding something that we can get behind as representing the woke mindset. Let's start looking at that, to determine what the woke people are saying.

 

2. How can we call them leaders?  Do they have something behind them like best sellers, or some official position?

 

3. I find it weird that you think I'm bought into this, yet you read them and I don't?

 

4. I don't want to believe anything. I want to look at the evidence and make my mind up. When I ask people for evidence, it's often short of the mark. Anecdotal evidence, or sensitive corporations looking after their market share aren't convincing to me.

5. Excellent.

6. The character of right-wing racism is entirely different, and results in different problems.  The problem I see with right wing racism is with disinformation agents, often foreign based, trying to disunify or in the worst case activate violent racist acts on shore.

The issue with what you're talking about is illiberalism, on a large scale. They are both huge problems.

And the problem with the latter, further to what I've said, is that liberals look the other way because the examples are brought forward too frequently and anecdotally. I would rather frame these issues as illiberalism, because that differentiates between popular complaints and actual risks to our institutions that liberals and conservatives can understand.

I realize I'm using the word liberal two ways here, my apologies.

But you seem to have read up a lot of on this new ideology, and you seem smart so I would like you to quote these popular works, explain why the people you named should be widely accepted as leaders and then maybe we can look at what they are saying also.

Of course, you don't know me, so if you think I'm not going to be open to looking at this stuff we should just stop this discussion right now and not waste any more time.

Edit: I get my analysis primarily on discussion boards, from conservatives themselves. I thought I should point that out.

Edited August 9, 2021 by Michael Hardner

[Michael Hardner]

6 hours ago, Galloway said:

I was surprised as anyone to see you and others defending racists by gaslighting us with "being anti-racist means you're the real racist," in a thread about the Canadian National Women's Soccer Team.   I think it would be great if you guys quit doing that, but that's up to you.  ?

I don't think that I said that.  I don't believe it.  Someone else said it, and I'm waiting to read how that can be justified.

[Yzermandius19]

52 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said:

2. How can we call them leaders?  Do they have something behind them like best sellers, or some official position?

6. The character of right-wing racism is entirely different, and results in different problems.  The problem I see with right wing racism is with disinformation agents, often foreign based, trying to disunify or in the worst case activate violent racist acts on shore.

The issue with what you're talking about is illiberalism, on a large scale. They are both huge problems.

And the problem with the latter, further to what I've said, is that liberals look the other way because the examples are brought forward too frequently and anecdotally. I would rather frame these issues as illiberalism, because that differentiates between popular complaints and actual risks to our institutions that liberals and conservatives can understand.

I realize I'm using the word liberal two ways here, my apologies.

2) Ibram X Kendi was named one of Time Magazines 100 most influential people of 2020, because he is a leader of the woke

he is the director of the Center for Antiracist Research at Boston University

he is the face of the Anti-Racist movement, and the biggest influencer on defining what "Anti-Racism" actually is,  he literally wrote the book on "How to be an Anti-Racist"

Robin DiAngelo is considered America's most visible expert on anti-bias training, and she has been in that field for 20 years, her academic field of expertise is whiteness studies and critical discourse analysis, and no I didn't make up the term whiteness studies to mock the woke, they literally call it that unironically

she is the face of those who cry "white privilege" and workplace diversity training, and is the biggest influencer on defining what that actually means, she wrote White Fragility, which is the most famous book on white privilege that there is

both are authors of NYT Bestsellers, and are easily two of the most famous woke thought leaders on the planet, widely acknowledged as such by the woke themselves

6) if you are worried about illiberalism on all sides of the political spectrum and the potential threat they pose to the liberal institutions you hold so dear

then the woke are biggest threat to liberalism in western civilization, so you should probably look into them if you are so worried about illiberal groups

seeing your focus on illiberal groups on the right, clearly it is something you claim to care about, so focus a little more on the illiberal groups on the left, because the woke are in your blindspot

despite being a far bigger threat than the illiberal groups you are focused on, somehow that didn't alert you to the threat they pose

Edited August 9, 2021 by Yzermandius19