The liberal media's blackout

[Montgomery Burns]

Argus:

The irony of this is that the French gleefully and lovingly showed every second of every minute of the LA riots...

NY Sun editorial:

Back in the 1990s, the French sneered at America for the Los Angeles riots. As the Chicago Sun-Times reported in 1992: "the consensus of French pundits is that something on the scale of the Los Angeles riots could not happen here, mainly because France is a more humane, less racist place with a much stronger commitment to social welfare programs." President Mitterrand, the Washington Post reported in 1992, blamed the riots on the "conservative society" that Presidents Reagan and Bush had created and said France is different because it "is the country where the level of social protection is the highest in the world."

It's a barely kept secret that Mr. Chirac led the opposition to the Iraq war out of fear of how his Muslim population would react. This fear is a big part of why France portrays itself as America's counterweight and why it criticizes Israel at every turn and coddled the terrorist Yasser Arafat right up to his death. This doesn't elicit thanks from Muslim radicals in France. It turns out to project an image of weakness. Unsurprisingly when faced with some unhappiness they believe they can pressure the French state into submission.

Now, I don't believe that this was the only reason (oil, nuclear reactor and massive arms sales were unquestionably factors too), but it was certainly one of the reasons.

[newbie]

Another irony. The US is much better at integrating people into its society.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Do the words barrios, ghetto and the projects ring a bell?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Yep/ Reminds me of Canada. EVen ignoring the cities, just drive through an Indian reserve sometimes. You'll have a better understanding then.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Kinda like how African Americans in the deep south are treated. And oh, U.S. also has Indian reservations.

[Montgomery Burns]

Another irony. The US is much better at integrating people into its society.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Do the words barrios, ghetto and the projects ring a bell?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Yep/ Reminds me of Canada. EVen ignoring the cities, just drive through an Indian reserve sometimes. You'll have a better understanding then.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Kinda like how African Americans in the deep south are treated. And oh, U.S. also has Indian reservations.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Really? African Americans are treated like that?

Wow. Where ever would I be without the wisdom of newbie?

And yes there are reservations in the US but they are not as run down as here, nor are they as isolated as in Canada.

With the rampant grinding poverty of Canadian aboriginals, you sound like a hypocrite trying to attack the US. Especially when 2 out of 3 African Americans are middle class. Canada's aboriginals can't make that claim.

[Montgomery Burns]

Argus:

The irony of this is that the French gleefully and lovingly showed every second of every minute of the LA riots, not to mention emphasising the racial element of the New Orleans floods...

BBC quotes Jean-Pierre Aussant in France's Figaro:

"This tragic incident reminds us that the United States has refused to ratify the Kyoto accords. Let's hope the US can from now on stop ignoring the rest of the world. If you want to run things, you must first lead by example. Arrogance is never a good adviser!"

And Philippe Grangereau in France's Liberation:

"Bush is completely out of his depth in this disaster. Katrina has revealed America's weaknesses: its racial divisions, the poverty of those left behind by its society, and especially its president's lack of leadership."

Yeah, I know you detest Bush, but we've been through that many times before...

BBC quotes France's Liberation:

"Bush had already been slow to react when the World Trade Center collapsed. Four years later, he was no quicker to get the measure of Katrina - a cruel lack of leadership at a time when this second major shock for 21st century America is adding to the crisis of confidence for the world's leading power and to international disorder. As happened with 9/11, the country is displaying its vulnerability to the eyes of the world."

And from France's Le Progres:

Katrina has shown that the emperor has no clothes. The world's superpower is powerless when confronted with nature's fury.

Rather arrogant considering France lost 15,000 people during nature's fury (a so-called heatwave) in the summer of 2003.

I wonder how that crow tastes.

Does the pollution caused by all these car torchings (over 21,000 since the start of 2005) count towards France’s Kyoto fume allowance? Or is only industrial pollution measured?

[Black Dog]

IOW, the "liberal" media will want to explain the "root causes" of this violence using whatever flavour-of-the-month, politically correct social theories are currently in vogue.

Yeah, poverty and ghettoization leading to crime and social degredation is a "flavour of the month theory".

I don't know what's more tiresome: the facile nature of your theories or the pompous manner in which you issue them.

[August1991]

IOW, the "liberal" media will want to explain the "root causes" of this violence using whatever flavour-of-the-month, politically correct social theories are currently in vogue.

Yeah, poverty and ghettoization leading to crime and social degredation is a "flavour of the month theory".

I don't know what's more tiresome: the facile nature of your theories or the pompous manner in which you issue them.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

It is the "M" word that everyone is avoiding, BD.

And since when did poverty justify burning cars and day-care centres?

As to ghettoization, you make it sound as if the French are operating an apartheid system and hence are to blame for these events.

The criminals are victims and the victims are criminals. Orwell would proud of your newthink.

[Black Dog]

It is the "M" word that everyone is avoiding, BD.

Nonsense.

The violence reflects tensions in French neighborhoods marked by youth unemployment of more than 30 percent and large immigrant Muslim communities in the majority Catholic nation.

Youths predominantly from France's large Arab-Muslim minority have rampaged through out-of-town neighbourhoods for 11 straight nights, setting fire to vehicles, businesses and public buildings and attacking police with stones and other missiles.

The country's biggest Muslim fundamentalist organization, the Union for Islamic Organizations of France, issued a fatwa, or religious decree. It forbade all those "who seek divine grace from taking part in any action that blindly strikes private or public property or can harm others."

BTW, were there a lot of Muslims in New York in 1964 and 1968, Wats in 1965, Detroit in 1967, San Francisco in 1966, Washington, DC in 1968, Baltimore in 1967 and 1968, and Chicago and Cleveland in 1968 or L.A. in 1990?

And since when did poverty justify burning cars and day-care centres?

Who said it did?

As to ghettoization, you make it sound as if the French are operating an apartheid system and hence are to blame for these events.

Why is it that I keep seeing words like "housing projects", "slums", and even "ghettos", then? Unemployment in France overall is 10 per cent. Unemployment for immigrants is running at over 20 per cent. France has faile dto integrate its immigrant population, preferring to keep them marginalized and poor as a source of cheap labour.

The criminals are victims and the victims are criminals. Orwell would proud of your newthink.

Spare me your supercilious crap. It doesn't take a genius to figure out that identifying the causes is not the same as supportring or justifying the actions. Nor does it take a genius to see that branding an entire population "criminals" on the basis of race or ethnic origin (all the while ignoring any social factors at work) is simplistic and ignorant.

[August1991]

Why is it that I keep seeing words like "housing projects", "slums", and even "ghettos", then? Unemployment in France overall is 10 per cent. Unemployment for immigrants is running at over 20 per cent. France has faile dto integrate its immigrant population, preferring to keep them marginalized and poor as a source of cheap labour.

Supercilious crap? There you go again BD. You blame the French for the actions of criminals.

Like the typical, old-fashioned North American Left, you're always looking for a victim to save and whose behaviour you want to excuse. Your analyses are concocted with elastic logic.

----

Bloomberg. Liberal media. Can't you do better?

[theloniusfleabag]

Dear August1991,

Like the typical, old-fashioned North American Left, you're always looking for a victim to save and whose behaviour you want to excuse.

No, actually, this thread was started under the false pretences (by a fanatic-cum-troll) that the media is 'liberal biased' (which is farcical) and that therefore the riots were not reported.

There seems to be a common thread through much of the 'right wing', and yet they seem too scared to come out and say it.

War with Islam. I hope you are aware of what it will require to kill all 1 billion+ Muslims.

[sharkman]

The mainstream media proves themselves to be biased every day. The latest case where they had to make a retraction was when the USA Today doctored the Condi Rice photo to give her demonic eyes.

War with Islam? No, the small minority of Muslims who have become rabid about jihad and ignore the rest of their holy book have started a 'holy' struggle. The war, if it is one, is with them, not the peaceful God fearing Muslims who make up the vast majority of that religion.

[Black Dog]

Supercilious crap? There you go again BD. You blame the French for the actions of criminals.

Like the typical, old-fashioned North American Left, you're always looking for a victim to save and whose behaviour you want to excuse. Your analyses are concocted with elastic logic.

Here's the thing: most crimes have motives. If you spent more time trying to understand the basics of cause and effect and less on your soap box trying (and failing) to sound insightful, you'd see that. You are, again, equating understanding what could possibly cause a group of poor and marginalized people to engage in criminal behaviour en masse with justifying those criminal actions. Nothing of the sort is happening here.

I also note you offer absolutely nothing in way of explanation, save for the tacit notion that "those people" are inherently criminal.

Bloomberg. Liberal media. Can't you do better?

Google news search "Paris+riots+ Muslim".

Oh yeah, one more thing (and this is to all those who are pointing to these riots as evidence of the failure of multicultralism): France doesn't have a multicultralist policy.

France's assimilation policy

The government has decided to require the estimated 100,000 legal immigrants arriving in France each year to sign an "integration contract" upon arrival if they wish to obtain a residence card.

By signing the contract, immigrants agree to undergo language training and instruction on the "values of French society." The certificate awarded upon successful completion of these classes entitles the immigrant to a 10-year residence permit. If the immigrant fails to earn the certificate, he or she will receive only a one-year residence permit.

...

France pursued an "integrationist" policy from the mid-1980s onward, devoting government resources to organizations that encouraged immigrants to abide by the law but retain their distinctive cultures and traditions. Starting around 2000, however, right-wing political leaders began to tap public perceptions that immigrants were responsible for increased crime. As their efforts helped shift the French debate to the right, the idea of "assimilation"—explicit pressure on immigrants to adopt quintessentially French behavior and traditions—was revived.

[I Miss Trudeau]

And since when did poverty justify burning cars and day-care centres?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Its pretty dishonest to try to equivocate between explaining and justifying.

[Argus]

Dear August1991,

Like the typical, old-fashioned North American Left, you're always looking for a victim to save and whose behaviour you want to excuse.

No, actually, this thread was started under the false pretences (by a fanatic-cum-troll) that the media is 'liberal biased' (which is farcical) and that therefore the riots were not reported.

There seems to be a common thread through much of the 'right wing', and yet they seem too scared to come out and say it.

War with Islam. I hope you are aware of what it will require to kill all 1 billion+ Muslims.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Nukes are good for that sort of thing. Maybe we need to bring back the neutron bomb.

[Argus]

It is the "M" word that everyone is avoiding, BD.

And since when did poverty justify burning cars and day-care centres?

Who said it did?

How foolish of him not to recognize that it is being a visible, ethnic, religious or sexual minority which justifies burning cars and day-care centres.

As to ghettoization, you make it sound as if the French are operating an apartheid system and hence are to blame for these events.

Why is it that I keep seeing words like "housing projects", "slums", and even "ghettos", then? Unemployment in France overall is 10 per cent. Unemployment for immigrants is running at over 20 per cent. France has faile dto integrate its immigrant population, preferring to keep them marginalized and poor as a source of cheap labour.

This is pretty dishonest, given that French policies, until recently, could not have been more in accord with your own beliefs had you written them yourself. French policies are like Canadian policies, devoted to reassuring the minorities of how wonderful their "home" cultures are and how much we respect them and how much we want them to retain those cultures and not abandon them for ours.

As for slums and housing projects - that's what happens when you allow millions of illiterate goat herders to settle in your larger cities instead of turning them back at the border. Go to Jane and Finch in Toronto and you'll see the same - but wear something bulletproof.

[Argus]

Here's the thing: most crimes have motives.

That's... really deep.

Every action has a motive. Sometimes the motives are pretty shallow. As has long been demonstrated, in the face of widespread criminality and the breakdown in law and order - as we see in France, more and more borderline personality types, esp young men, will seize upon the "freedom" to go out and wreak havoc. Studies after the Rodney King riots showed most of those involved in riot-like behaviour were not particularly upset about King, or didn't even know about it. They were simply gleefully taking part in the general mayhem. In cities which cracked down hard and fast to re-establish the social order, rioting stopped quickly (notably San Francisco). In cities which were timid and hesitant, and allowed the lack of public order to continue, rioting spread and grew as more and more shiftless people took to the streets to take advantage

The answer in France is to crack heads, a lot of heads. Shoot the little bastards down in the street and the rioting and arson will soon stop.

[Black Dog]

Nukes are good for that.

Heil Argus.

How foolish of him not to recognize that it is being a visible, ethnic, religious or sexual minority which justifies burning cars and day-care centres.

Christ, can any of you half-wits make the distinction between cause and effect and justifying? By your logic, a statement like "the cause of World War 2 was Hitler's invasion of Poland" would be treated as an endorsement of Nazism.

It's not hard, people.

This is pretty dishonest, given that French policies, until recently, could not have been more in accord with your own beliefs had you written them yourself. French policies are like Canadian policies, devoted to reassuring the minorities of how wonderful their "home" cultures are and how much we respect them and how much we want them to retain those cultures and not abandon them for ours.

Actually (as I pointed out elsewhere), they aren't: rather, they are aggressivly assimilationist. In other words: you're wrong.

But keeping beating that straw man.

(Also, please refrain from telling me what my beliefs are: I've never taken any kind of position on the immigration/multicultralism debate, so you are, once again, full of shit.)

As for slums and housing projects - that's what happens when you allow millions of illiterate goat herders to settle in your larger cities instead of turning them back at the border. Go to Jane and Finch in Toronto and you'll see the same - but wear something bulletproof.

I love the smell of rascism in the afternoon...smells like...privilege.

Every action has a motive. Sometimes the motives are pretty shallow. As has long been demonstrated, in the face of widespread criminality and the breakdown in law and order - as we see in France, more and more borderline personality types, esp young men, will seize upon the "freedom" to go out and wreak havoc. Studies after the Rodney King riots showed most of those involved in riot-like behaviour were not particularly upset about King, or didn't even know about it. They were simply gleefully taking part in the general mayhem. In cities which cracked down hard and fast to re-establish the social order, rioting stopped quickly (notably San Francisco). In cities which were timid and hesitant, and allowed the lack of public order to continue, rioting spread and grew as more and more shiftless people took to the streets to take advantage

But what is it about conditons of poverty and ghettoization that breed such "borderline" personality types? Maybe they are just inferior, eh....

[Argus]

Nukes are good for that.

Heil Argus.

Being practical is Nazism now?

This is pretty dishonest, given that French policies, until recently, could not have been more in accord with your own beliefs had you written them yourself. French policies are like Canadian policies, devoted to reassuring the minorities of how wonderful their "home" cultures are and how much we respect them and how much we want them to retain those cultures and not abandon them for ours.

Actually (as I pointed out elsewhere), they aren't: rather, they are aggressivly assimilationist. In other words: you're wrong.

Yes, I did see that. What you pointed out was that they had the same multiculturalism policy as us for the last twenty years, but recently, they started asking immigrants to learn something about France, including the language. Damn them! Of all the nerve! Expecting immigrants to learn their language! Who do they think they are!? What an insult to Muslim pride! It's no wonder there were riots!

As for slums and housing projects - that's what happens when you allow millions of illiterate goat herders to settle in your larger cities instead of turning them back at the border. Go to Jane and Finch in Toronto and you'll see the same - but wear something bulletproof.

I love teh smell of rascism in the afternoon...smells like...privilege.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Smells like judgement, you mean, something you lack.

[Black Dog]

Being practical is Nazism now?

Genocide is a hall mark of Nazism.

Yes, I did see that. What you pointed out was that they had the same multiculturalism policy as us for the last twenty years, but recently, they started asking immigrants to learn something about France, including the language. Damn them! Of all the nerve! Expecting immigrants to learn their language! Who do they think they are!? What an insult to Muslim pride! It's no wonder there were riots!

Fact: France's policy is no longer multicultural. The rest is yet another strawman argument.

Smells like judgement, you mean, something you lack.

Judgement is like opinions and assholes: everybody has 'em. Whether they are sound or not is a different story. You demonstrated some staggeringly shitty judgement here, creating a strawman out of beliefs I never articulated or professed to hold.

[Argus]

Being practical is Nazism now?

Genocide is a hall mark of Nazism.

Muslims are not a race. Besides, I didn't advocate it. I merely pointed out it could be done.

Yes, I did see that. What you pointed out was that they had the same multiculturalism policy as us for the last twenty years, but recently, they started asking immigrants to learn something about France, including the language. Damn them! Of all the nerve! Expecting immigrants to learn their language! Who do they think they are!? What an insult to Muslim pride! It's no wonder there were riots!

Fact: France's policy is no longer multicultural. The rest is yet another strawman argument.

Fact. You're spinning around like a weasel trying to excuse multiculturalism, which is entirely responsible for the mess in France. The fact they now require immigrants to actually learn their language doesn't mean France no longer has any respect for multiculturalism.

Smells like judgement, you mean, something you lack.

Judgement is like opinions and assholes: everybody has 'em. Whether they are sound or not is a different story. You demonstrated some staggeringly shitty judgement here, creating a strawman out of beliefs I never articulated or professed to hold.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

You are one the main defenders of the sacred creed of political correctness on this group. I don't feel any problem in judgement in blaming that kind of close-minded, idiotic policy for the fact French Muslims don't feel the least bit French.

[Black Dog]

Muslims are not a race. Besides, I didn't advocate it. I merely pointed out it could be done.

Actually, you're right. Looks like I was doing the same thing as you before. I hang my head in shame.

You are one the main defenders of the sacred creed of political correctness on this group.

Yet I've never said a word about multicultralism before today. So shove off.

[newbie]

With the rampant grinding poverty of Canadian aboriginals, you sound like a hypocrite trying to attack the US.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I think some of the problem here with poverty on the reservations is corrupt band leaders.

[August1991]

Here's the thing: most crimes have motives. If you spent more time trying to understand the basics of cause and effect and less on your soap box trying (and failing) to sound insightful, you'd see that. You are, again, equating understanding what could possibly cause a group of poor and marginalized people to engage in criminal behaviour en masse with justifying those criminal actions. Nothing of the sort is happening here.

I also note you offer absolutely nothing in way of explanation, save for the tacit notion that "those people" are inherently criminal.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Gee, Officer Krupke

We're very upset

We never had the love

That every child oughta get

We ain't no delinquents

We're misunderstood

Deep down inside us there is good

[Gotta thank Steyn for that one.]

[theloniusfleabag]

Dear August1991,

[Gotta thank Steyn for that one.]

Actually you can thank Stephen Sondheim for writing it. However, it burns my ass how well criminals are treated, including those in France.

[Guest eureka]

In his study of the Urban Poor in America, "When Work Disappears," Professor W.J. Wilson cites figures for violent crime. At the age of 11, black and white are about equal but reach a differential of 4:1 during the late twenties. However, when EMPLOYED black and white males were compared, there was no significant difference in violent behaviour patterns. This it was argued was because of the greatly higher rates of unemployment in the poor black population and the overwhelmong predominance of blacks in the urban ghettoes.

The figures in recent decades also correspond to the increase of crack-cocaine addiction and use in the ghettoes.

This is a window on what is happening in France. There, the riots are an outburst by a marginalized visible minority herded into ghettoes and with similar unemployment levels and equally dim prospects.

It is poverty and ghettoization that are the cause of the violence and, I think that the reaction that suggests innate criminality is more a fear of what is inside us all than a considered or informed response.

It is all too easy for us to take the outdated view of nature over nurture. It relieves us of the responsibility to do anything about the desperate social conditions of the victims.

[August1991]

"Quand il est dans la bande, un garçon fera n'importe quoi, comme jeter un cocktail Molotov. Tout seul, jamais il fera un truc pareil" , affirme Grace. "Ils sont engraînés. Leur réputation est en jeu, c'est leur fierté" , ajoute "Misteek". Celui qui refuse de participer se met à l'écart du groupe. "T'es un bouffon, un canard, un bolos" , dit Grace. "C'est la honte. Même les filles peuvent te traiter" , glisse une troisième jeune fille, Audrey, 17 ans, également en lycée général à Aulnay.

Un peu plus loin, dans la cité, Habiba, 15 ans, voilée, porte un regard identique sur les jeunes émeutiers. "Dans un groupe, il suffit qu'il y en ait un qui dise "T'es pas chiche ?" et l'autre doit le faire, sinon c'est un bouffon. Et, dans la cité, il est mort."

Le Monde

These kids are just punks. Alone, they're scared young kids but in a gang, they feel strong and like many young boys, they have no sense of their mortality.

The government should impose a strict curfew from sundown to sun-up and put the army in the street to scare them. Round-up the supposed ring leaders.

I think the Islamist aspect of this problem is inchoate.