When they talk about de-funding or dismantling Law Enforcement

Boges · June 10, 2020

The reason George Floyd is being martyred, is because he was so obviously murdered by a police officer. He wasn't a threat, he was unarmed and he was handcuffed, yet he still ended up getting killed.

It's more of a straw that broke the camel's back regarding this police brutality thing.

And unlike in past years, there's clearly an appetite for hearing African-Americans out in regards to police brutality.

Edited June 10, 2020 by Boges

Infidel Dog · June 10, 2020

7 hours ago, Michael Hardner said:

I commented on her use of the term 'the new normal'. Sorry I offended you.

That's OK, you didn't offend me. I just can't help noticing the obvious. For example that wasn't the term in the title. The title described the new, new normal.

It was a surprising puzzle that you responded with an air of superiority to a video by assuming without watching it that you knew what it was in it, then talked about something else and that something else didn't even exist.

I mean I've heard of 'strawman arguments' but let's try to keep it in this reality.

Edited June 10, 2020 by Infidel Dog

Shady · June 10, 2020

14 hours ago, Infidel Dog said:

So you were just knowledgeably replying to something you knew nothing about then?

Sure that makes sense.

Unfortunately he has a pattern of this. I posted about some ridiculous things Democrats were insisting be part of the covid financial relief bill. I even linked directly to the legislation itself. He refused to read even a word of it.

Michael Hardner · June 10, 2020

7 minutes ago, Infidel Dog said:

1. It was a surprising puzzle that you responded with an air of superiority
2. ...to a video
3. I mean I've heard of 'strawman arguments' but let's try to keep it in this reality.

1. I'm sorry you feel me to be superior, somehow. I don't feel that.
2. I wasn't responding to the video. I already told you that.
3. I was responding to the idea that 'normal' is normal. You seem to have entirely missed that.

I'm not interested in FOX Opinion pieces - they are pure angertainment, not for me.

Infidel Dog · June 10, 2020

24 minutes ago, Boges said:

The reason George Floyd is being martyred, is because he was so obviously murdered by a police office. He wasn't a threat, he was unarmed and he was handcuffed, yet he still ended up getting killed.

It's more of a straw that broke the camel's back regarding this police brutality thing.

And unlike in past years, there's clearly an appetite for hearing African-Americans out in regards to police brutality.

And yet there were no riots when whites such as Tony Timpa, Daniel Shaver and Justine Diamond were "murdered" by police and twice as many whites are killed by police as blacks.

Why is that there were no riots? Is it this appetite thing of which you speak? What justifies that then? Where did that come from? Actually I think I know but I'd like to hear your explanation.

Edited June 10, 2020 by Infidel Dog

Michael Hardner · June 10, 2020

8 minutes ago, Shady said:

Unfortunately he has a pattern of this. I posted about some ridiculous things Democrats were insisting be part of the covid financial relief bill. I even linked directly to the legislation itself. He refused to read even a word of it.

There's lots I don't read. Maybe you don't read things sometimes. I wouldn't expect you to read a long screed from Slavoj Zizek - would that be fair of me ? Worse of all were people who posted 1-hour long videos about Trudeau and expected me to watch :lol:

FOX News is angertainment, but only for those already angry. It is the equivalent of blowing on a glowing fire through dentures...

Infidel Dog · June 10, 2020

4 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said:

1. I'm sorry you feel me to be superior, somehow. I don't feel that.
2. I wasn't responding to the video. I already told you that.
3. I was responding to the idea that 'normal' is normal. You seem to have entirely missed that.

1. I don't but it does give me a chuckle when you posture like you are.

2. And yet you quoted the entire post including the video, then postulated on some out the butt nonsense that you'd rather talk about. If you want to reveal your belief in the unsupported by reality just do it. Don't pretend to be responding to something that has nothing to do with it.

3. But you weren't even responding to the correct title, Bud. How's the air in your world?

Boges · June 10, 2020

14 minutes ago, Infidel Dog said:

And yet there were no riots when whites such as Tony Timpa, Daniel Shaver and Justine Diamond were "murdered" by police and twice as many whites are killed by police as blacks.

Why is that? Is it this appetite thing of which you speak? What justifies that then? Where did that come from? Actually I think I know but I'd like to hear your explanation.

1) If more whites are killed by blacks, then that speaks to the idea that police need to be checked. See the gentleman in Buffalo. That's caused a bit of a commotion. I'm outraged by cops committing violence to all people.

2) Blacks are incarcerated at a higher rate than Whites and are killed at a higher rate based on their representation in the population.

3) This is where this debate will circle the drain. Racist will continue to contend that more black are put in jail and killed because they somehow deserve it, or that they're more violent than others. Those aren't debates that can be won or lost with facts, they're just feelings because for decades black and indigenous communities have been put into cycles of poverty by past generations. Cops don't reduce crime, reducing poverty reduces crime.

4) Who cares what you or I think? This is the side of history you find yourself on. The more you want to contend that racism doesn't really exist the more you look like a dinosaur. You'll look like people that disagree with Bi-Racial Marriage, Abortion, Gay Marriage, Legalized Weed etc etc etc.

Edited June 10, 2020 by Boges

Boges · June 10, 2020

12 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said:

There's lots I don't read. Maybe you don't read things sometimes. I wouldn't expect you to read a long screed from Slavoj Zizek - would that be fair of me ? Worse of all were people who posted 1-hour long videos about Trudeau and expected me to watch

FOX News is angertainment, but only for those already angry. It is the equivalent of blowing on a glowing fire through dentures...

He often posts articles that are behind paywalls. He doesn't even read his own cites.

Infidel Dog · June 10, 2020

12 minutes ago, Boges said:

1) If more whites are killed by blacks, then that speaks to the idea that police need to be checked. See the gentleman in Buffalo. That's caused a bit of a commotion. I'm outraged by cops committing violence to all people.

2) Blacks are incarcerated at a higher rate than Whites and are killed at a higher rate based on their representation in the population.

3) This is where this debate will circle the drain. Racist will continue to contend that more black are put in jail and killed because they somehow deserve it, or that they're more violent than others. Those aren't debates that can be won or lost with facts, they're just feelings because for decades black and indigenous communities have been put into cycles of poverty by past generations. Cops don't reduce crime, reducing poverty reduces crime.

4) Who cares what you or I think? This is the side of history you find yourself on. The more you want to contend that racism doesn't really exist the more you look like a dinosaur. You'll look like people that disagree with Bi-Racial Marriage, Abortion, Gay Marriage, Legalized Weed etc etc etc.

Blacks don't just commit more crimes they commit more violent crimes. A vastly disproportionate amount by demographic or any other criteria you'd like to mention. As a result they find themselves in more violent confrontations with the police - often with black officers.

Institutionalized racism against blacks doesn't exist. Show me how it does. Don't pose like you have factual support for something if you don't. If dinosaurs are reasoning with facts and the New, New Normal is running on out-the-butt reasoning sign me up as a T Rex.

And even if there was factual support (which there isn't) for "institutionalized racism" the riots are happening in areas run by Democrats, sometimes (as in the riot-ridden cases of Baltimore and Minneapolis run by black police chiefs) so explain that.

Boges · June 10, 2020

8 minutes ago, Infidel Dog said:

Blacks don't just commit more crimes they commit more violent crimes. A vastly disproportionate amount by demographic or any other criteria you'd like to mention. As a result they find themselves in more violent confrontations with the police - often with black officers.

There are systematic reasons for that. But it's when you see a black person that isn't being violent that gets murdered, that's when you get BLM protests. Going on 2 weeks now. Seems a lot of effort for something that's a fabrication.

Quote

Institutionalized racism against blacks doesn't exist. Show me how it does. Don't pose like you have factual support for something if you don't. If dinosaurs are reasoning with facts and the New, New Normal is running on out-the-butt reasoning sign me up as a T Rex.

Why should I have to convince someone who's being willfully ignorant of something? You're not black, you can't comment on a black person's experiences with police.

Quote

And even if there was factual support (which there isn't) for "institutionalized racism" the riots are happening in areas run by Democrats, sometimes (as in the riot-ridden cases of Baltimore and Minneapolis run by black police chiefs) so explain that.

You deny racism then say something like that. :lol: Dallas, Texas has a black Police Chief. Toronto did up until he resigned this week.

Keep being on the wrong side of history.

Edited June 10, 2020 by Boges

Boges · June 10, 2020

You have a US History of Subjugating black people, enslaving them, then segregating them, then incarcerating them.

And then when they finally say what's up? Why is society so unfair? Whitey claims that their concerns don't exist.

I can totally see racism in society now.

Edited June 10, 2020 by Boges

Infidel Dog · June 10, 2020

5 minutes ago, Boges said:

There are systematic reasons for that. But it's when you see a black person that isn't being violent that gets murdered, that's when you get BLM protests. Going on 2 weeks now. Seems a lot of effort for something that's a fabrication.

I deny racism with facts. If reality offends you that's not my problem.

If you believe you have some evidential support for systematic reasons explaining the vastly disproportionate violent crime committed by blacks produce it. Either that or just admit you don't have it and we can write it off as just another thing you'd like to believe.

One more time...whites such as Tony Timpa, Daniel Shaver, and Justine Diamond were slaughtered by the police. It isn't just blacks.

Infidel Dog · June 10, 2020

Show me why the below is factually incorrect or just admit it and move on:

Quote

Every year, American police officers have about 370 million contacts with civilians. Most of the time nothing happens, but 12 to 13 million times a year, the police make an arrest. How often does this lead to the death of an unarmed black person? We know the number thanks to a detailed Washington Post database of every killing by the police. What is your guess as to the number of unarmed blacks killed by the police every year? One hundred? Three hundred? Last year, the figure was nine.

That number is going down, not up. In 2015, police killed 38 unarmed blacks. In 2017, 21. What about white people? Last year, police killed 19 unarmed whites, in addition to the 9 unarmed blacks. We know the number of black and white people arrested every year, so it is possible to make an interesting calculation. The chances of being unarmed, arrested, and then killed by the police are higher for whites than for blacks. For both races, it’s very rare: One out of 292,000 arrests for blacks, and out of 283,000 arrests for whites. This is hardly what we would expect from the way the media report these deaths.

What about the people the police kill who are armed?

Since 2015, when the Post began tracking these numbers, the police have killed about 1,000 people a year. Every year, about one quarter of them are black. This is about twice their share of the population, which is 13 percent. Is this proof of police racism? No. The more likely explanation is that blacks are more likely than whites to act in violent, aggressive ways that give the police no choice but to shoot them. In 2018, the most recent year for which we have statistics, blacks accounted for 37 percent of all arrests for violent crimes, 54 percent of all arrests for robbery, and 53 percent of arrests for murder. With so many blacks involved in this kind of violent crime, that blacks should account for 25 percent of the people killed by the police seem like a surprisingly low figure.

https://www.unz.com/article/the-manufactured-crisis-of-police-racism/

Edited June 10, 2020 by Infidel Dog

Michael Hardner · June 10, 2020

40 minutes ago, Infidel Dog said:

1. I don't but it does give me a chuckle when you posture like you are.

2. And yet you quoted the entire post including the video, then postulated on some out the butt nonsense that you'd rather talk about. If you want to reveal your belief in the unsupported by reality just do it. Don't pretend to be responding to something that has nothing to do with it.

3. But you weren't even responding to the correct title, Bud. How's the air in your world?

1. I already told you I don't feel that way. If you don't believe me, I don't know why you are even talking to someone you see as a liar
2. Not out the butt... the excerpt was in your post. How could it have nothing to do with it if it was in your post ? Sorry though, I shouldn't have excerpted the whole post if I did that .... and I just checked and I DIDN'T quote the entire post :lol: Wow, I'm good... (but NOT superior)
3. What ? What do you mean 'correct title' ? I was pointing out that the 'old normal' isn't good.

You haven't really absorbed my point or taken away from it as far as I can see.

Boges · June 10, 2020

14 minutes ago, Infidel Dog said:

I deny racism with facts. If reality offends you that's not my problem.

If you believe you have some evidential support for systematic reasons explaining the vastly disproportionate violent crime committed by blacks produce it. Either that or just admit you don't have it and we can write it off as just another thing you'd like to believe.

Racism isn't an objective thing. It's 100% subjective based on your perspective.

I'm sure in the 60's people thought that support for segregation wasn't racist. And there were racists who believed their opinion was based on facts.

Which is why people that think these protest are bad are on the wrong side of history.

The history of systemic racism in the US can't be denied. The systemic racism of the past creates the poverty that creates the crime noted today.

But even then the racism is factually obvious. Black and Latinos are incarcerated for Drug crimes at a much higher rate than white. But they don't do drugs at any higher a rate.

Quote

One more time...whites such as Tony Timpa, Daniel Shaver, and Justine Diamond were slaughtered by the police. It isn't just blacks.

All the more reason to defund the police. I notice you don't include the assault of Martin Gugino.

Edited June 10, 2020 by Boges

Boges · June 10, 2020

Quote

Since 2015, when the Post began tracking these numbers, the police have killed about 1,000 people a year. Every year, about one quarter of them are black. This is about twice their share of the population, which is 13 percent. Is this proof of police racism? No. The more likely explanation is that blacks are more likely than whites to act in violent, aggressive ways that give the police no choice but to shoot them. In 2018, the most recent year for which we have statistics, blacks accounted for 37 percent of all arrests for violent crimes, 54 percent of all arrests for robbery, and 53 percent of arrests for murder. With so many blacks involved in this kind of violent crime, that blacks should account for 25 percent of the people killed by the police seem like a surprisingly low figure.

That quote is so racist, I can see where you get your opinions from.

Blacks are more violent, so they deserve to deserve to be killed by the police.

George Floyd and Breonna Taylor weren't violent.

Edited June 10, 2020 by Boges

Michael Hardner · June 10, 2020

3 minutes ago, Boges said:

George Floyd and Breonna Taylor weren't violent.

Boges - you need to follow the logic to its racist conclusion: it may not be THEIR fault but because it's the fault of ALL BLACKS that they are more violent, it is their fault ... bascially because they are black.

I know this logic from 9/11 and the assertion that Muslims need to convert from their religion because 9/11 happened. Whites and their mass shootings, holocausts, genocides and serial killings have other reasons for being violent, which can and should be excused.

Infidel Dog · June 10, 2020

3 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said:

I'm not just telling you I have an opinion based on facts. I gave you the facts then told you the conclusion I derived from them. If the facts are incorrect show me other facts that call them into question. If you don't have them (and by now it's pretty obvious you don't) show me why you think my reasoning on what I say I can conclude from them is incorrect.

Don't be thinking you can replace the facts with feels and jump to the conclusion therefore there is "institutional racism" - which is a real thing requiring real facts to support its existence.

Facts aren't racist. They're facts.

Boges · June 10, 2020

3 minutes ago, Infidel Dog said:

Facts aren't racist. They're facts.

Really?

You have a fact that more Whites are killed by the Cops.

Then it's pointed out that Blacks are actually killed at a higher rate.

So then it HAS to be because they're involved in more violent crime, which justifies why they're killed at a higher rate. Which is highly racist.

Facts can be cherry-picked to fit a narrative.

Edited June 10, 2020 by Boges

Infidel Dog · June 10, 2020

The facts don't say blacks are "more violent therefore they deserve to be killed."

They say blacks are far more statistically likely to be involved in violent crime and therefore far more likely to get into a violent confrontation with police. Police killings of blacks are rare but less likely than police killings of whites, even when you factor in the fact they make up a smaller percentage of the population.

Edited June 10, 2020 by Infidel Dog

Boges · June 10, 2020

11 minutes ago, Infidel Dog said:

The facts don't say blacks are "more violent therefore they deserve to be killed."

They say blacks are far more statistically likely to be involved in violent crime and therefore far more likely to get into a violent confrontation with police. Police killings of blacks are rare but less likely than police killings of whites, even when you factor in the fact they make up a smaller percentage of the population.

But instances where Cops are caught on film killing someone who either wasn't violent or ceased to be violent when the cops had the upper hand are what's causing these protests.

It's irrelevant if Black are more likely to be involved in violent crime that they'd be violent when encountering the police.

It's assuming the cause of those deaths by cop. It doesn't implicitly state that all or even a majority of the deaths involving the police were a result of violence towards the cops. You would have to present that fact first.

You could claim the Breonna Taylor was because of a violent interaction with the cops. You have plain-clothes cops breaking into a house looking for a suspect. They didn't identify themselves as cops so her boyfriend exchanged fire thinking his apartment was being broken into. But it's 100% the cops fault she died.

Edited June 10, 2020 by Boges

Michael Hardner · June 10, 2020

23 minutes ago, Infidel Dog said:

You quoted me but I don't think I made the post you quoted coming from me.

Michael Hardner · June 10, 2020

26 minutes ago, Infidel Dog said:

Facts aren't racist. They're facts.

The conclusion involves assumptions that are informed by racist tropes IMO.

Infidel Dog · June 10, 2020

1 hour ago, Boges said:

But instances where Cops are caught on film killing someone who either wasn't violent or ceased to be violent when the cops had the upper hand are what's causing these protests.

It's irrelevant if Black are more likely to be involved in violent crime that they'd be violent when encountering the police.

It's assuming the cause of those deaths by cop. It doesn't implicitly state that all or even a majority of the deaths involving the police were a result of violence towards the cops. You would have to present that fact first.

You could claim the Breonna Taylor was because of a violent interaction with the cops. You have plain-clothes cops breaking into a house looking for a suspect. They didn't identify themselves as cops so her boyfriend exchanged fire thinking his apartment was being broken into. But it's 100% the cops fault she died.

First of all nobody cares about the daytime protests. although there's a lot Democrat hypocrisy there if you factor in the lack of social distancing. But it's more the night time riots, of violence, vandalism and looting rational people object most to.

Irrelevant to what? Statistics are very relevant to disproving the idea there is "institutionalized racism." Not only can one notice that there is no actual proof of institutional racism but one can see the real mechanics of what is offered up as support for the fallacy. Blacks are not violently persecuted in a way that other races are not. Such cases of excessive police violence against black are random, rare, not distinguishable by race and any claim of disproportionate persecution by race is neutered by the fact blacks are more likely to be involved in a violent confrontation with police. They are committing more violent crime even when you factor in their smaller demographic.

But if you want to emotionalize individual events - White Daniel Shaver was on his knees with his hands up begging police not to shoot when they shot him. Justine Diamond was a white lady in her pyjamas. Tony Timpa was a white guy gasping for air, telling police he couldn't breath.

According to the Washington Post there were 19 cases like that of police killing whites last year. There were only 9 cases of police killing blacks.

So knowing that and the fact that over 50% of violent murders are committed by the black 13% of the population let's reconsider the hyper-emotionalized case of Breona Taylor. Taylor was in what the police considered "a drug-house." She was with her boyfriend. The police had a warrant. There are conflicting statements as to whether they announced their presence. Taylor's boyfriend shot first. He was licensed to carry. Taylor was caught in the following spray of gunfire.

Tragic, but how does it show institutional racism? If she's black then possible excessive force is racism, but if you're white like Tony Timpa (who also couldn't breath), Daniel Shaver (shot on his knees with his hands up) or Justine Diamond (shot by a police officer of a different race in her pyjamas) it doesn't. Is that your point?

Edited June 10, 2020 by Infidel Dog