Trudeau to spend a billion dollars pleasing anti-gun nuts

[Army Guy]

This issue is just one more thing that divides our country, and once Justin is retired, the cons will start the long process of undoing everything Justin and his gang of twits , lairs, and law breakers have done period...it will be a slow process, but the country will return to some normalcy over the conservative reign....it will be hell for some liberals and leftist, but they 'll get over it....

[cougar]

7 hours ago, Army Guy said:

The guy that invested 14,000 for just one AR-15 all kitted out is probably not going to be as relaxed as yo are about the ban, thats not counting what he has invested in ammo, other misc gear, not to mention range fees or memberships...

Wasn't he going to be paid fair market value for his gun?  Wasn't this the whole idea behind the program?

Yes, I admit I did not take the time to investigate what they banned.  Basic logic tells me a reasonable person can comfortably live with the ban and still enjoy shooting practice or hunting.

[Argus]

10 hours ago, cougar said:

Wasn't he going to be paid fair market value for his gun?  Wasn't this the whole idea behind the program?

Yes, I admit I did not take the time to investigate what they banned.  Basic logic tells me a reasonable person can comfortably live with the ban and still enjoy shooting practice or hunting.

Well, given they banned a coffee shop and several toy guns, I suppose so.

But it's ridiculously bad policy, and spends a billion dollars to accomplish nothing but pissing people off. Of course, they're the kind of people the Liberals don't mind pissing off, as long as it buys them votes from the low-knowledge urban progressives. But that's quite divisive.

[New World Disorder]

14 hours ago, Army Guy said:

This issue is just one more thing that divides our country, and once Justin is retired, the cons will start the long process of undoing everything Justin and his gang of twits , lairs, and law breakers have done period...it will be a slow process, but the country will return to some normalcy over the conservative reign....it will be hell for some liberals and leftist, but they 'll get over it....

Right we shall get rid of Trudeau only to get another leader who will do the exact same thing. My trust in the government to do this right has gone away.

[New World Disorder]

10 hours ago, cougar said:

Wasn't he going to be paid fair market value for his gun?  Wasn't this the whole idea behind the program?

Yes, I admit I did not take the time to investigate what they banned.  Basic logic tells me a reasonable person can comfortably live with the ban and still enjoy shooting practice or hunting.

Market value does not mean true value. He will get the lowest compensation based on 'market value'

[cougar]

5 minutes ago, New World Disorder said:

Right we shall get rid of Trudeau only to get another leader who will do the exact same thing. My trust in the government to do this right has gone away.

Conservatives are lucky they have him as a leader now that the oil prices have crashed.  They can blame the whole economy slowdown and crisis in Alberta on the Liberals.   But no matter what they do, they will never get my vote.

Edited May 9, 2020 by cougar

[cougar]

4 minutes ago, New World Disorder said:

Market value does not mean true value. He will get the lowest compensation based on 'market value'

What can I say, I too lost money on my RRSPs.    Bad investment.  Whoever has $15K to put in a gun, he has money to burn.  

[New World Disorder]

3 minutes ago, cougar said:

Conservatives are lucky they have him as a leader now that the oil prices have crashed.  They can blame the whole economy slowdown and crisis in Alberta on the Liberals.   But no matter what they do, they will never get my vote.

'Sunny Ways!'  The oil industry was already loosing value before this pandemic hit. So putting the blame on Alberta would be dumb. The pandemic simply accelerated the demise.

[New World Disorder]

3 minutes ago, cougar said:

What can I say, I too lost money on my RRSPs.    Bad investment.  Whoever has $15K to put in a gun, he has money to burn.  

This is going to be a trend across the board. If your RRSPs are invested in things like oil, then you will see a decline in value. Investors and bankers used your money to prop up failing industries. I think people need to be more involved in where that money is invested.

That gun will be more valuable in the near future if society really degrades.

[Army Guy]

10 hours ago, cougar said:

Wasn't he going to be paid fair market value for his gun?  Wasn't this the whole idea behind the program?

Yes, I admit I did not take the time to investigate what they banned.  Basic logic tells me a reasonable person can comfortably live with the ban and still enjoy shooting practice or hunting.

The only thing that is law right now is the ban, the bill to give gun owners fair market value has not been crafted yet nor do we know if one will be crafted….. We have no idea what is going to be offered and what is going to covered....  You seem to think that this is not life altering for some people, but there are a lot of sport shooters that earn a good living off that sport, , even skeet shooting which as you know is mostly done with 12 gauge.. So for some it's a matter of losing a job, a source of income for their family, and nobody knows how this is going to effect those that legally sell these guns. I get it tough shit right...you say your a fisher men, if your like me you have a lot of money tied up in that sport, equipment, boat, etc...and if they band fishing we would be hearing the same story.

Bill Blair has already stated there is more fire arms to be added to the list, nobody knows where this ends....

[cougar]

9 minutes ago, New World Disorder said:

That gun will be more valuable in the near future if society really degrades.

This is why Trudeau is doing what he has to, to prevent a full blown civil war and lawlessness.

[New World Disorder]

3 minutes ago, Army Guy said:

 

Bill Blair has already stated there is more fire arms to be added to the list, nobody knows where this ends....

Until they get all the guns out of peoples hands. All of them. Then the real tyranny will begin!

[Army Guy]

24 minutes ago, New World Disorder said:

Right we shall get rid of Trudeau only to get another leader who will do the exact same thing. My trust in the government to do this right has gone away.

We need to get rid of Justin and his merry gang to stop the bleeding, trying to pair down this massive debt we now find ourselves in is not going to be pretty, it is going to mean higher taxes, and more sacrifices...and all of that is going to take leadership...to convince the people that is what is needed...Justins gang as time after time proved that they can not be trusted, they had their time and they failed....will the conservatives be any better , yes, by how much no one can say. 

[cougar]

7 minutes ago, Army Guy said:

... So for some it's a matter of losing a job, a source of income for their family, and nobody knows how this is going to effect those that legally sell these guns. I get it tough shit right...you say your a fisher men, if your like me you have a lot of money tied up in that sport, equipment, boat, etc...and if they band fishing we would be hearing the same story.

I like how you go around exploring and employing all possible lines of defense that suit your argument.     No, I am not convinced.  We have waitresses , hotel operators, flight attendants, retail store clerks, tour guides and just about anyone else lose a job, and they do not participate in a blood sport, I would have no sympathy for a gun seller having a reduced income because now they have to sell cheaper guns.  

And , no I do not invest heavily in my hobbies.   I have no boat and no truck to haul one with.  I like to walk.  I use high-end fishing rods but older models - ( Sage and Loomis ).  I also collect stamps and similarly I do not put too much money into that.  Actually I run this one as a business - I buy new stamps with the profit from selling duplicates.

[New World Disorder]

Just now, cougar said:

This is why Trudeau is doing what he has to, to prevent a full blown civil war and lawlessness.

The lawlessness comes down with an ineffective plan of locking people down for two months. The media DRILLED it into everyone's head day and night , seven days a week, for weeks on end. Covid Covid covid covid.  Do this enough and people are going to start to panic. The lockdown aspects will continue in this slow reopening. People are getting impatient.

Parents who have school aged children and have had to work from home have had it rough. That's a lot to handle. Different stresses for those who lost their jobs during the lockdown. How they going to pay rent, how will be buy food.

If you have to go get groceries and such, you now have to stand in this queue and try to be mindful of everything around you. Some can do it, many cannot. I am starting to lose my patience with it all. If I don't follow all these rules, I can get kicked out of the store, meaning, well now I have to try another store and such. Some people are predicting either really high food prices or scarcity of food. Meaning starvation deaths could be more than the covid.  If people cannot get food, they will start to riot.

The gun can be used for protection of yourself and your family if people really start to loose their shit. Because if you really need the help, the government and police won't be able to help you.

The immense pressure to drastically change how our societies operate in such a short time is a lot of stress on all of us.

[Army Guy]

7 minutes ago, cougar said:

This is why Trudeau is doing what he has to, to prevent a full blown civil war and lawlessness.

Really this is more liberal bullshit....almost as bad as the vice PM saying these wpns are responsible for all the domestic violence...or they are designed to kill the most people in the shortest time...to prevent a civil war !!!!!!....here is an idea, how about increasing the size of our military, it would provide more jobs, more security.... Sorry liberals don't like the military either....how about increase the size of our police depts....nope they don't like that idea either.... Lawlessness, the problem according to Justins think tank and the police chiefs is fire arms in the hands of criminals....THEY don't abide by our gun laws...hence why they are criminals....

civil war and lawlessness will only come if the government sets the stage for it to start....and we are miles away form that...this whole topic is getting crazy...

[cougar]

3 minutes ago, New World Disorder said:

The media DRILLED it into everyone's head day and night , seven days a week, for weeks on end. Covid Covid covid covid.  Do this enough and people are going to start to panic.

No, not panic, as I pointed out on page 66 of the COVID thread, people simply can go insane!  I want to wring the neck of that teenager interrupting my Soundgarden song on Youtube to tell me to "Stay home and be safe", with a smile. Yes, I will smile back at them while doing it!    I HAVE HAD ENOUGH OF IT!

[New World Disorder]

4 minutes ago, Army Guy said:

We need to get rid of Justin and his merry gang to stop the bleeding, trying to pair down this massive debt we now find ourselves in is not going to be pretty, it is going to mean higher taxes, and more sacrifices...and all of that is going to take leadership...to convince the people that is what is needed...Justins gang as time after time proved that they can not be trusted, they had their time and they failed....will the conservatives be any better , yes, by how much no one can say. 

I am not sure I can blame Trudeau alone for this debt load. Because many nations have had to do the exact same thing and throw as much money at the crippled economy hoping to flatten a different curve. Only this one goes down first. .

[New World Disorder]

Just now, cougar said:

No, not panic, as I pointed out on page 66 of the COVID thread, people simply can go insane!  I want to wring the neck of that teenager interrupting my Soundgarden song on Youtube to tell me to "Stay home and be safe", with a smile. Yes, I will smile back at them while doing it!    I HAVE HAD ENOUGH OF IT!

That is more of what I was trying to get at. You get it everywhere and all with various messages. Yes it's really f'n annoying and stressing. 

Also, use ad block , you'll see less of those stupid ads on youtube and such.

[Army Guy]

2 minutes ago, New World Disorder said:

I am not sure I can blame Trudeau alone for this debt load. Because many nations have had to do the exact same thing and throw as much money at the crippled economy hoping to flatten a different curve. Only this one goes down first. .

You don't have to use any examples of covid spending....Justins spending record before all of this speaks volumes....

[cougar]

3 minutes ago, New World Disorder said:

 use ad block , you'll see less of those stupid ads on youtube and such.

I will try to find it and install it tonight!  Thanks!

[New World Disorder]

9 minutes ago, Army Guy said:

You don't have to use any examples of covid spending....Justins spending record before all of this speaks volumes....

Ok I am with you here. It would also seem that many economies were already starting to tank before this virus came along. So total depression coming on?

[Army Guy]

25 minutes ago, cougar said:

I like how you go around exploring and employing all possible lines of defense that suit your argument.     No, I am not convinced.  We have waitresses , hotel operators, flight attendants, retail store clerks, tour guides and just about anyone else lose a job, and they do not participate in a blood sport, I would have no sympathy for a gun seller having a reduced income because now they have to sell cheaper guns.  

And , no I do not invest heavily in my hobbies.   I have no boat and no truck to haul one with.  I like to walk.  I use high-end fishing rods but older models - ( Sage and Loomis ).  I also collect stamps and similarly I do not put too much money into that.  Actually I run this one as a business - I buy new stamps with the profit from selling duplicates.

Your free to believe in what ever you want, you've made your mind up long before you responded to this topic, your not interested in facts, or the truth. This whole gun ban thing is not going to last forever, so really there's nothing really to debate.

[Argus]

1 hour ago, cougar said:

This is why Trudeau is doing what he has to, to prevent a full blown civil war and lawlessness.

Did you leave off the '/s'?

[CentristPartyofCanada]

4 hours ago, cougar said:

What can I say, I too lost money on my RRSPs.    Bad investment.  Whoever has $15K to put in a gun, he has money to burn.  

This is a pretty terrible argument. Things like RRSPs are investment vehicles. Firearms are a hobby in Canada. Unless it's a collector's item no one uses firearm as investment vehicles.

Someone spending $15k on a firearm that brings them joy doesn't mean they have money to burn, it just means they choose to spend their money a certain way. Just how some people spend upwards of 30k on nice motorcycles or vehicles doesn't necessarily mean they have money to burn - all it means is that it is how they choose to spend their money.

I find it disturbing that you're okay with people losing large sums of money at the stroke of the government's pen just because you don't share their passion for a certain hobby. It sounds like you have a lot of anger.

I imagine that individual, and many like him, did everything right in terms of following the law. The government gave him regulations and rules to follow, whether it's storage, taking courses, background checks, etc - and he complied. The deal is you follow the government's laws and you can acquire, possess, transport, and use firearms.

 

 

There are over 2 million firearm licensed individuals in Canada.

A few million Canadians own 7 million firearms between them, and the death toll from fire arm related homicides on a yearly basis is less than 200, of which a large part are gang related. 2017 had the most firearm homicides since the 1990s, making it an outlier.

 

• In 2017, police reported 660 homicide victims in Canada;

• The [...] increase [...] was driven by an increase in firearm-related and gang-related homicides;

• The number of gang-related homicides rose to 163 in 2017 (25% of all homicides);

• Almost 9 out of every 10 (87%) gang-related homicides were committed with a firearm, usually a handgun;

• Overall, there were 266 victims killed by a firearm in 2017; and

• The firearm-related homicide rate increased for the fourth consecutive year, rising 18% in 2017. At 0.72 per 100,000 population, this marked the highest rate of firearm-related homicides seen in Canada since 1992.

https://www150.statcan.gc.ca/n1/pub/85-002-x/2018001/article/54980-eng.htm

 

• Research continues to rely on surveys to estimate the number of firearm-owning households, firearm owners and firearms in circulation. Survey findings are fairly consistent but may underestimate the prevalence of firearms in Canada;

• Recent estimates indicate that 26 percent of Canadian households own at least one firearm;

• Approximately 7 million firearms are estimated to be owned by private individuals, this number includes as many as 1.2 million restricted firearms; and

• The overall rate of firearm ownership is at least 241 per 1,000 population and is comparable to ownership rates in other countries where hunting is a significant activity.

https://www.justice.gc.ca/eng/rp-pr/csj-sjc/jsp-sjp/wd98_4-dt98_4/p2.html

Due to the proximity to the United States, and the extent to which the Canadian media focuses on American news, Canadians falsely believe that Canada has a gun (violence) problem.

 

A number of studies have concluded that the most effective policies regarding reducing firearm crimes include in-depth background checks, registration, mandatory education of firearm safety and laws, and not allowing a person to carry a firearm on their person in public (concealed/open carry). These requirements have been part of Canadian firearm regulation for decades. Interestingly enough, the Czech Republic allows concealed carry and has less firearm related crime than Canada.

In addition, enforcement is a significant factor in the effectiveness of firearm regulation. Canada consistently and strictly enforces firearm regulations. The majority of firearm related crimes are gang related and do not involve the average person. The majority of the firearms used in crimes in Canada are from the US.

In addition, paintball and airsoft guns, among others, fall under the category of “firearm” – which can be misleading when interpreting statistics. Currently, there is no logic behind banning or restricting various firearms other than for aesthetic reasons.

The AR15, one of the firearms being banned, has only killed ONE person within Canada, since its introduction in the mid 1970s. So why is it being banned?

The Ruger Mini 14, a vermin firearm, is being banned because of its usage in the 1989 Polytechnique shooting. Since then (over 30 years!), it has not be attributed to any crime.

We're going to spend billions of dollars for what? To try and reduce the ~100 deaths a year related to firearms to 0? Even though a significant number, if not all, of experts and law enforcement personnel agree that it will actually do nothing? All the while the world economy is reeling from the Coronavirus.

In the end, you don't care that this new ban will see the loss of over 2 billion taxpayer dollars a year, in perpetuity. You don't care that the crime rate will not actually go down. All you care about is punishing a group you don't like.

Edited May 9, 2020 by CentristPartyofCanada