God created evil for his pleasure. Do you recognize the pleasure of creating and doing evil?

[Tdot]

16 hours ago, Tdot said:

...check out more truths that help clear up your blurry vision:

...

https://www.christianity.com/wiki/god/does-god-punish-us-for-our-sins.html

Do bad things still happen because we sin?

If through Jesus we are forgiven of all sin, does that mean we can now sin with impunity?

Not quite.

The Bible refers to the discipline of the Lord multiple times. Proverbs 3:11-12says, “My son, do not despise the Lord’s discipline, and do not resent his rebuke, because the Lord disciplines those he loves, as a father the son he delights in.”

Hebrews 12 explains this in greater depth. Sometimes, it says, bad things that happen to us are a result of God’s discipline. They are not a retribution or punishment for sin; rather, they are a correction, as a parent would correct a child. They are not intended to break down, but rather to increase holiness in the believer (Hebrews 12:10).

There are also societal or earthly consequences of sin. Just because God forgives us of murder doesn’t mean a murderer doesn’t have to serve jail time. Some negative experiences will flow naturally out of poor choices, such as financial hardship after gambling away money. These are not God’s “punishment;” they are natural results of our actions.

Is everything bad that happens to me because God is “disciplining” me?

There are several reasons people might suffer that have nothing to do with discipline.

1. Show God’s Glory

In John 9, Jesus and his disciples encounter a man who has been blind from birth. The disciples ask Jesus, “Who sinned, this man or his parents, that he should be born blind?” (John 9:2)

“‘Neither this man nor his parents sinned,’ said Jesus, ‘but this happened so that the works of God might be displayed in him’” (John 9:3).

The disciples were operating under a common assumption of the time that any suffering one experienced was the result of sin that had not been confessed and atoned for. Jesus gave an alternate reason: a person might suffer so that God would be glorified. A person might suffer for a time so that they might experience an even greater good in the future.

2. Improve Us and Bring Us Closer to God

When times are good, it’s easy to forget about our need for God, even though He is the one sustaining the very world we live in. It’s easy to become complacent in our relationship with Him.

Thus, Paul writes, “Not only so, but we also glory in our sufferings, because we know that suffering produces perseverance; perseverance, character; and character, hope” (Romans 5:3-4).

Suffering helps us to lean on God and improves our character. Thus, sometimes suffering is for this reason rather than as the result of any poor choices.

3. A Result of Following Christ

In John 15:18, Jesus says, “If the world hates you, keep in mind that it hated me first.” Christians face discrimination, persecution, and even death for their faith. In this case, the bad things that happen are because the Christian is doing something right. Jesus warned that a sinful world would hate those who were “not of the world” (John 17:16).

Paul encourages us to rejoice in these sufferings (as noted above in Romans 5:3-4).

 

 

Edited April 19, 2020 by Tdot

[pinky tuscadero]

7 hours ago, betsy said:

Lol.  You guys don't even blink about killing a human in his earliest stage of development -

like as if being a fetus isn't a stage of development for all human beings!  You're like cheering spectators in the colliseum - cheering for more blood!

 

How many unborn humans have you guys tortured and  murdered?

 

Don't talk to me about evil, unless you're talking about them!  Pro-choice people are up to their eyeballs in blood!

Very few pro-abortionists watch the 'procedure' from the womb perspective, there tune would change in an instant.

There is a reason why they fight tooth and nail to have even pictures banned.

You would think the very premise that this may be infanticide leads one to a very deep research.

Instead we get them all chanting 'Hoes need abortions, Hoes need abortions.', or gross oversimplifications like 'my body, my choice'.

Now we have gone to one of the last stops on this train, baby born but one little toe still inside and you can kill him/her and if it survives you let it die in alone on the floor.

But somehow in people's minds this is still okay, because if they admit this is not okay, they have to admit a much larger discussion has to take place, they are in a corner.

Here is a good article from a former abortion doc.

Suddenly, this was looking really different to me. For the first time in my life it hit me very powerfully, that this woman had come to me figuratively and said…here’s $800, kill my baby. And I was the type of person who would look right back at her very calmly, and say why sure, I’ll do that.

 

  

2 hours ago, French Patriot said:

 

I do not expect an answer, but what the hell. 

2 Peter 3:9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

 

1 Timothy 2:4 Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.

 

If His Will, will be done. as you claim, that means that none of us will perish as we will all be saved and know the truth.

Right?

Regards

DL

You can start here for a perspective of what we may call Christian Universalism (different from Unitarianism), I would recommend that site to believer and un-believer alike.

 

Edited April 19, 2020 by pinky tuscadero
added link

[Guest]

1 minute ago, pinky tuscadero said:

Very few pro-abortionists watch the 'procedure' from the womb perspective, there tune would change in an instant.

There is a reason why they fight tooth and nail to have even pictures banned.

You would think the very premise that this may be infanticide leads one to a very deep research.

Instead we get them all chanting 'Hoes need abortions, Hoes need abortions.', or gross oversimplifications like 'my body, my choice'.

Now we have gone to one of the last stops on this train, baby born but one little toe still inside and you can kill him/her and if it survives you let it die in alone on the floor.

But somehow in people's minds this is still okay, because if they admit this is not okay, they have to admit a much larger discussion has to take place, they are in a corner.

 

  

You can start here for a perspective of what we may call Christian Universalism (different from Unitarianism), I would recommend that site to believer and un-believer alike.

 

I'm pro choice, and I support the right to have pro life demonstrations, even those that set up on campuses or outside clinics that provide abortions.  I support the right to show whatever photographs you want.  As long as no-one tries to stop a woman from entering, or prevent a doctor from carrying out the procedure, they can do what they want. 

Pro choice means lots of things.

[pinky tuscadero]

14 minutes ago, bcsapper said:

I'm pro choice, and I support the right to have pro life demonstrations, even those that set up on campuses or outside clinics that provide abortions.  I support the right to show whatever photographs you want.  As long as no-one tries to stop a woman from entering, or prevent a doctor from carrying out the procedure, they can do what they want. 

Pro choice means lots of things.

One should never hinder the free movement of anyone (I even dislike when union picketers do this, it is a form of bullying, or worse it actively seeks out a physical confrontation).

 

To me, the more information available and freely shared (on any topic) is good for society,

I abhor the current state of 'I and my friends have decided the debate is over, now shut-up'.

Edited April 19, 2020 by pinky tuscadero

[French Patriot]

23 minutes ago, pinky tuscadero said:

You can start here for a perspective of what we may call Christian Universalism (different from Unitarianism), I would recommend that site to believer and un-believer alike.

So you think a right wing fundamentalist bunch of literalists who do not know how to read scriptures is a good source of morality.

They hasve some of the worst porn watching and divorce rates in all of Christiandom for god's sake.

Why send us there?

Are you not able to do your own apologetics?

If you can, lets see you do it on the following that shows how immoral your views are.

On Jesus dying for you.

It takes quite an  inflated ego to think a god would actually die for you, after condemning you unjustly in the first place.

You have swallowed a lie and don’t care how evil you make Jesus to keep your feel good get out of hell free card.

It is a lie, first and foremost because, like it or not, having another innocent person suffer or die for the wrongs you have done, --- so that you might escape responsibility for having done them, --- is immoral. To abdicate your personal responsibility for your actions or use a scapegoat is immoral.

You also have to ignore what Jesus, as a Jewish Rabbi, would have taught his people.

Ezekiel 18:20 The soul that sinneth, it shall die. The son shall not bear the iniquity of the father, neither shall the father bear the iniquity of the son: the righteousness of the righteous shall be upon him, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon him.

Deuteronomy 24:16 (ESV) "Fathers shall not be put to death because of their children, nor shall children be put to death because of their fathers. Each one shall be put to death for his own sin.

Psa 49;7  None of them can by any means redeem his brother, nor give to God a ransom for him:

There is no way that you would teach your children to use a scapegoat to escape their just punishments and here you are doing just that.

Jesus is just a smidge less immoral than his demiurge genocidal father, and here you are trying to put him as low in moral fibre as Yahweh.

Regards

DL

 

[pinky tuscadero]

Okay buddy, take care.

[Goddess]

On 4/18/2020 at 9:44 AM, bcsapper said:

Yeah, one has to find a way of letting religious types know that such is utterly, absolutely wrong, and they have no right whatsoever to expect anyone else on Earth to act according to their beliefs. 

This is the crux of it.  Christians especially somehow have gotten the idea that they have been given the same authority on earth as Jesus was given.

Jesus was the Son of God.  He was given the authority to judge humans, the authority to condemn humans because he was a perfect human - something not even Betsy can claim to be.  No individual Christian was given that same authority - yet they take it for themselves and think nothing of it.

There were only 2 instructions given to followers - 

1. Love God with your whole heart, soul, mind and strength.

2. Love your neighbour.

That was it.  That was all.

They were given no power to judge others.  They were given no power to condemn others.  They were given no power to force change on others.

Yet, here they are - judging, condemning and forcing others to accept their  OWN interpretations.

On 4/18/2020 at 9:38 AM, dialamah said:

directing believers to make sure everyone has been notified of God's disapproval,

They had better been REEEEEEAAAALLLLL clear on what God disapproves of then.  Or they are in violation of the second commandment Jesus gave - love for others.

Like sapper, I have no problem with religious nutters spouting their own interpretations of what God disapproves of.

In all the time Jesus was supposedly on earth - he said nothing about homosexuality.  He did, however, say a lot about judging and condemning others harshly.

A true Christian would go by what Jesus actually SAID and DID and no further.  To judge on condemn fellow humans based on what you THINK Jesus really meant or what you SUSPECT he was inferring on a matter, well, that doesn't seem to be what Jesus instructions for his followers were.  His strongest condemnations in the Bible were for the harsh, exacting and rule-making religious leaders.  I don't think Betsy thinks about any of this, though.  She has given herself the same authority as the Son of God AND with the harsh, condemning and judging ofthe Pharisees - a dangerous position to put oneself in, if you are a true believer.

 

[Marocc]

6 minutes ago, Goddess said:

There were only 2 instructions given to followers - 

1. Love God with your whole heart, soul, mind and strength.

2. Love your neighbour.

Ever heard of the ten commandments?

[Goddess]

1 minute ago, Marocc said:

Ever heard of the ten commandments?

Ever heard Jesus said he fulfilled the law and boiled all the commands down to those 2?

 

[Marocc]

4 minutes ago, Goddess said:

Ever heard Jesus said he fulfilled the law and boiled all the commands down to those 2?

 

No. I haven't. Please, explain to the ignorant.

[Goddess]

8 minutes ago, Marocc said:

No. I haven't. Please, explain to the ignorant.

Haha, it's been explained.  Continuing to explain to those willfully ignorant is an exercise in futility.

You and Betsy feel authority has been given you to judge and condemn your fellow humans based on your own interpretations, inferences and assumptions of what scripture says.  Nothing is going to change that. Religious entitlement is a nasty attitude.

Edited April 20, 2020 by Goddess

[Marocc]

20 minutes ago, Goddess said:

Haha, it's been explained. 

No. I literally don't remember ever hearing that.... But if you're unwilling, I guess I should be able to find the claim myself.

22 minutes ago, Goddess said:

based on your own interpretations,

Nah-a, - I would not knowingly provide my interpretations. That would be wrong.

23 minutes ago, Goddess said:

Religious entitlement

What is 'religious entitlement'?

[Goddess]

46 minutes ago, Marocc said:

 

What is 'religious entitlement'?

It's pretty self-explanatory.

Which word are you stuck on - "religious" or "entitlement"?

[Marocc]

2 minutes ago, Goddess said:

Which word are you stuck on - "religious" or "entitlement"?

'Entitlement' more so than the other. Sometimes two people understand the same word differently.

[Goddess]

5 minutes ago, Marocc said:

'Entitlement' more so than the other. Sometimes two people understand the same word differently.

Let's just go with the dictionary definition. 

Google is your friend.

 

en·ti·tle·ment

/inˈtīdlmənt,enˈtīdlmənt/

 

the belief that one is inherently deserving of privileges or special treatment.

 

[French Patriot]

5 hours ago, Goddess said:

they are in violation of the second commandment

Just a reminder that Christians all break the first commandment as they have based theur religion on Jesus and not on Yahweh.

If they can't even do the first commandment -------

Regards

DL

[French Patriot]

On 4/19/2020 at 2:27 PM, pinky tuscadero said:

Okay buddy, take care.

I will.

You to,  moral coward.

Jesus curses those who cannot do decent apologetics for him and just run away.

He said his people would fight for him and you and your ilk just run for the hills.

Regards

DL

[French Patriot]

5 hours ago, Marocc said:

Ever heard of the ten commandments?

The ones that Christians ignore?

Especially the first one?

Regards

DL

[French Patriot]

5 hours ago, Goddess said:

Ever heard Jesus said he fulfilled the law and boiled all the commands down to those 2?

 

Scriptures have Yahweh saying he never changes his mind and once he says something, it is forever.

Even Trinitarians cannot have the 2 heads contradict each other.

Regards

DL

[French Patriot]

5 hours ago, Marocc said:

What is 'religious entitlement'?

Inquisitions and jihads, just for starters. Homophobia and misogyny, especially in Islam for next.

Regards

DL

[Tdot]

1 hour ago, French Patriot said:

Just a reminder that Christians all break the first commandment as they have based theur religion on Jesus and not on Yahweh.

You can't keep making God's Will into, whatever you want it to be, by ignoring what the holy bible tells you God's Will actually is.

[Tdot]

7 hours ago, Marocc said:

No. I haven't. Please, explain to the ignorant.

She's right.  It's self-explanatory.

Reflect on the single scripture of "Do unto others, as you would have them do unto you" then compare it to each of the 10 Commandments/see if you notice the interchangeable reality. 

Edited April 20, 2020 by Tdot

[Tdot]

On April 18, 2020 at 5:36 PM, Tdot said:

This is pretty sad and pathetic to read, that you feel like you have to post trifling insults at peaceful people who post respectfully to you. Although you are sent here by, Satan, and I am glad to read that members love you.

Here, check out more truths that help clear up your blurry vision:

...

https://www.christianity.com/wiki/god/does-god-punish-us-for-our-sins.html

Do bad things still happen because we sin?

If through Jesus we are forgiven of all sin, does that mean we can now sin with impunity?

Not quite.

The Bible refers to the discipline of the Lord multiple times. Proverbs 3:11-12says, “My son, do not despise the Lord’s discipline, and do not resent his rebuke, because the Lord disciplines those he loves, as a father the son he delights in.”

Hebrews 12 explains this in greater depth. Sometimes, it says, bad things that happen to us are a result of God’s discipline. They are not a retribution or punishment for sin; rather, they are a correction, as a parent would correct a child. They are not intended to break down, but rather to increase holiness in the believer (Hebrews 12:10).

There are also societal or earthly consequences of sin. Just because God forgives us of murder doesn’t mean a murderer doesn’t have to serve jail time. Some negative experiences will flow naturally out of poor choices, such as financial hardship after gambling away money. These are not God’s “punishment;” they are natural results of our actions.

Is everything bad that happens to me because God is “disciplining” me?

There are several reasons people might suffer that have nothing to do with discipline.

1. Show God’s Glory

In John 9, Jesus and his disciples encounter a man who has been blind from birth. The disciples ask Jesus, “Who sinned, this man or his parents, that he should be born blind?” (John 9:2)

“‘Neither this man nor his parents sinned,’ said Jesus, ‘but this happened so that the works of God might be displayed in him’” (John 9:3).

The disciples were operating under a common assumption of the time that any suffering one experienced was the result of sin that had not been confessed and atoned for. Jesus gave an alternate reason: a person might suffer so that God would be glorified. A person might suffer for a time so that they might experience an even greater good in the future.

2. Improve Us and Bring Us Closer to God

When times are good, it’s easy to forget about our need for God, even though He is the one sustaining the very world we live in. It’s easy to become complacent in our relationship with Him.

Thus, Paul writes, “Not only so, but we also glory in our sufferings, because we know that suffering produces perseverance; perseverance, character; and character, hope” (Romans 5:3-4).

Suffering helps us to lean on God and improves our character. Thus, sometimes suffering is for this reason rather than as the result of any poor choices.

3. A Result of Following Christ

In John 15:18, Jesus says, “If the world hates you, keep in mind that it hated me first.” Christians face discrimination, persecution, and even death for their faith. In this case, the bad things that happen are because the Christian is doing something right. Jesus warned that a sinful world would hate those who were “not of the world” (John 17:16).

Paul encourages us to rejoice in these sufferings (as noted above in Romans 5:3-4).

 

 

You can get mad at the truth, @French Patriot, but you cannot hide from the truth

[Marocc]

1 hour ago, French Patriot said:

Scriptures have Yahweh saying he never changes his mind and once he says something, it is forever.

Genesis 6:6 "The LORD regretted that he had made human beings on the earth, and his heart was deeply troubled."

[Marocc]

1 hour ago, French Patriot said:

The ones that Christians ignore?

Especially the first one?

Yes. Those 10.