God created evil for his pleasure. Do you recognize the pleasure of creating and doing evil?

[French Patriot]

53 minutes ago, Tdot said:

You can't keep making God's Will into, whatever you want it to be, by ignoring what the holy bible tells you God's Will actually is.

It does indeed.

But you show every time you open your mouth that you do not believe he does his will.

Likely because you see him as to incompetent to do it, with your belief in that some of us will end in hell, when he wills that no one be lost to him.

You do not let him be the jealous god that he is and save us all.

God is not the problem, you and most other Christians are. You have no faith or belief in his power.

Regards

DL 

[French Patriot]

59 minutes ago, Tdot said:

You can get mad at the truth, @French Patriot, but you cannot hide from the truth

You are the one hiding from the moral truth of your immoral views. 

Your bible says come reason, and here you are, such a pathetic apologist, that all you can do is quote a bible that you cannot even read and interpret correctly.

That is why the god you see you see as to incompetent to do his will of saving us all.

You try to make god in your image of a pathetic loser who cannot reason without thumping your head off.

 

2 Peter 3:9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

 1 Timothy 2:4 Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.

Regards

DL

Edited April 20, 2020 by French Patriot

[French Patriot]

50 minutes ago, Marocc said:

Genesis 6:6 "The LORD regretted that he had made human beings on the earth, and his heart was deeply troubled."

What does this have to do with god never changing his mind?

If he regretted an act, he would just reverse or cure it. Right? 

Jesus said he came to cure, not kill.

Regards

DL

[Marocc]

3 minutes ago, French Patriot said:

What does this have to do with god never changing his mind?

YHWH created man —> regretted —> drowned men —> let some live....

You can put the changing one's mind -part by any turn of events, imo.

[Tdot]

1 hour ago, French Patriot said:

Your bible says come reason, and here you are, ... all you can do is quote a bible 

You are very deceitful here, once again. Your dishonesty helps to reveal your true mission in creating this thread.

I came here more than once, to Reason, but each time I came here your empty-reservoir had no viable replies. I contributed noteworthy scholarship here, that you could not override with dishonesty, as I helped explain God's Will re: EVIL ---in a way that your insults and offensive remarks could not transcend.  Here is a reminder:

 

https://www.christianity.com/wiki/god/does-god-punish-us-for-our-sins.html

Do bad things still happen because we sin?

If through Jesus we are forgiven of all sin, does that mean we can now sin with impunity?

Not quite.

The Bible refers to the discipline of the Lord multiple times. Proverbs 3:11-12says, “My son, do not despise the Lord’s discipline, and do not resent his rebuke, because the Lord disciplines those he loves, as a father the son he delights in.”

Hebrews 12 explains this in greater depth. Sometimes, it says, bad things that happen to us are a result of God’s discipline. They are not a retribution or punishment for sin; rather, they are a correction, as a parent would correct a child. They are not intended to break down, but rather to increase holiness in the believer (Hebrews 12:10).

There are also societal or earthly consequences of sin. Just because God forgives us of murder doesn’t mean a murderer doesn’t have to serve jail time. Some negative experiences will flow naturally out of poor choices, such as financial hardship after gambling away money. These are not God’s “punishment;” they are natural results of our actions.

Is everything bad that happens to me because God is “disciplining” me?

There are several reasons people might suffer that have nothing to do with discipline.

1. Show God’s Glory

In John 9, Jesus and his disciples encounter a man who has been blind from birth. The disciples ask Jesus, “Who sinned, this man or his parents, that he should be born blind?” (John 9:2)

“‘Neither this man nor his parents sinned,’ said Jesus, ‘but this happened so that the works of God might be displayed in him’” (John 9:3).

The disciples were operating under a common assumption of the time that any suffering one experienced was the result of sin that had not been confessed and atoned for. Jesus gave an alternate reason: a person might suffer so that God would be glorified. A person might suffer for a time so that they might experience an even greater good in the future.

2. Improve Us and Bring Us Closer to God

When times are good, it’s easy to forget about our need for God, even though He is the one sustaining the very world we live in. It’s easy to become complacent in our relationship with Him.

Thus, Paul writes, “Not only so, but we also glory in our sufferings, because we know that suffering produces perseverance; perseverance, character; and character, hope” (Romans 5:3-4).

Suffering helps us to lean on God and improves our character. Thus, sometimes suffering is for this reason rather than as the result of any poor choices.

3. A Result of Following Christ

In John 15:18, Jesus says, “If the world hates you, keep in mind that it hated me first.” Christians face discrimination, persecution, and even death for their faith. In this case, the bad things that happen are because the Christian is doing something right. Jesus warned that a sinful world would hate those who were “not of the world” (John 17:16).

Paul encourages us to rejoice in these sufferings (as noted above in Romans 5:3-4).

[Tdot]

Along with a few other members here... The link above, covers your thread's title and OP with the chunks of meats, to fill your blurry-vision's appetite for clarity and clearness.

Edited April 21, 2020 by Tdot

[French Patriot]

On 4/20/2020 at 8:44 PM, Marocc said:

YHWH created man —> regretted —> drowned men —> let some live....

You can put the changing one's mind -part by any turn of events, imo.

That was stupid.

When you change your mind on something, do you destroy it when you can fix it?

Not if you have half a brain, so why are you indicating that god has only half a brain and would destroy what he can fix?

You seem hell bent on making Yahweh a murderer even though Jesus, the other head of god, said he came to cure and not to kill.

You cannot help it when so foolish as to read a myth literally instead of applying Midrash to it.

I put an O.P. on god's will that speak to this idea of his murdering and doing his will.

Don't be a moral coward. Jump in.

Regards

DL

Edited April 22, 2020 by French Patriot

[French Patriot]

On 4/20/2020 at 9:10 PM, Tdot said:

I contributed noteworthy scholarship here,

From those who use inquisitions.

Are you that brain dead.

Scholarship my ass.

You are a useless thumper of the thought of other because you cannot reason.

Regards

DL

[Tdot]

On April 20, 2020 at 6:13 PM, Tdot said:

Along with a few other members here... The link above, covers your thread's title and OP with the chunks of meats, to fill your blurry-vision's appetite for clarity and clearness.

 

[Marocc]

1 hour ago, French Patriot said:

When you change your mind on something, do you destroy it when you can fix it?

Depends on whether I regret doing it or regret doing it on a certain way. For sure, if I continued discussing with you one-sidedly, I would regret it.

[French Patriot]

16 minutes ago, Marocc said:

Depends on whether I regret doing it or regret doing it on a certain way. For sure, if I continued discussing with you one-sidedly, I would regret it.

So like your god, you would rather kill human souls instead of curing them.

Thanks for showing us what Satan thinks like.

Regards

DL

 

[Rue]

French P. You choose to discuss religion. I  note the troll who tries to buzz you.  That said...

I would contend to be able to understand good we also must understand evil because our enlightenment depends on a constant dialectical  conflict between the two to fuel the movement towards more developed enlightenment through the lessons learned in those conflicts.So using that construct, I  do not define the path to enlightenment as something "God" would "enjoy".  If there is an origin or creator of this spiritual path we chose,  I would speculate it  probably is beyond human descriptions of enjoyment, pain, joy, sorrow or anything in our current state we could truly understand including even assuming it 

I also think the closer one claims get to understanding what they call God  through developing their own enlightenment, they may also be fabricating simply their own truths and not necessarily all encompassing truth which I believe remains forever outside the reach of any path of enlightenment.

I  also  appreciate many need to  project or ascribe  to a God human qualities ...just as we see human faces in clouds or human qualities in our pets or believe all alien life forms will look like us and speak English. 

It's easier to grasp than referencing God as a concept of energy and quantum physics.

I also appreciate many of us feel the need to be comforted by  a God that is all knowing and forgiving and expressed through a human vessel not a burning bush

 I respect and  people's constructs if they are loving, tolerant, peaceful.

If they are used to incite hatred, intolerance, evil, then I probably by destined choice may  choose to clash...what motivates the decision to go to war depends on how badly one wants goodness to prevail over evil...in any battle the best anyone achieves is a temporary treaty or pause...

Evil like goodness takes on any form and pretense. In that sense they have the exact same appearance. It takes more than the 5 senses or logic to discern Satan from God using those humanesque andcromantic terms of good and evil

It's why I like canines or felines or animals. Their ability to discern the differences is far more acute. Unlike homo sapiens they have no ego to distort their perceptions abilities. 

To become enlightened one needs to observe animal behaviour. I find horses, canines, felines, pigs, birds, insects, whales, make excellent Rabbias.

 

Edited May 4, 2020 by Rue

[French Patriot]

14 hours ago, Rue said:

Evil like goodness takes on any form and pretense. In that sense they have the exact same appearance. It takes more than the 5 senses or logic to discern Satan from God using those humanesque andcromantic terms of good and evil

Thanks for a well put post.

I disagree with this bit.

If believers cannot fathom than a genocidal god is more satanic than, Satan she is shown to be in scriptures, then they are mentally and morally deficient.

You seem to think that most theists work towards enlightenment. I do not see it as the vast majority just follow culture, custom, fashions and religions that they are born into.

I thank all the gods that the newer generations are not as sheepish as their immoral genocidal god loving parents. 

 

14 hours ago, Rue said:

 

To become enlightened one needs to observe animal behaviour. I find horses, canines, felines, pigs, birds, insects, whales, make excellent Rabbias.

I agree but focus more on the human animal as it can express himself with words that give a lot of information on how his instincts are expressing themselves.

 

Regards

DL

[Rue]

32 minutes ago, French Patriot said:

Thanks for a well put post.

I disagree with this bit.

If believers cannot fathom than a genocidal god is more satanic than, Satan she is shown to be in scriptures, then they are mentally and morally deficient.

You seem to think that most theists work towards enlightenment. I do not see it as the vast majority just follow culture, custom, fashions and religions that they are born into.

I thank all the gods that the newer generations are not as sheepish as their immoral genocidal god loving parents. 

 

I agree but focus more on the human animal as it can express himself with words that give a lot of information on how his instincts are expressing themselves.

 

Regards

DL

Excellent points. Defer. Just for clarification I have no preconceived ideas of others you call agnostics or gnostics or myself. I claim to barely begin to understand myself let alone you or others. I know  I am culturally, ethnically  and reform Jewish but you know I could easily for the same reasons be gnostic Christian, Unitarian, Buddhist, Taoist, wingnut to others and feel quite comfortable with you referring to md as gnostic but yah I would not presume about others other than to presume they are unique and entitled to be treated the the way I want to be treated.

When you call me gnostic its complementary...but I do not claim to be enlightened or presume it in others. All I know is when someone is respectful like you are and welcomes my words and does not reject my stab at these discussions as you do I consider youa fellow student. I struggle for the same answers as you do. 

Like you someone depicting God as enjoying evil or not caring about life, I  probably disagree with at a certain level of reference...in my presentvxtatd  I find human emotional projections illogical and subjective distortions. I do not claim to know as fact this just subjective opinion which I say is defective.

In your case what you call Satan for me is negative energy projected by human and higher evolved life forms or energy sources and it mutates in form, intensity, appearance..it can look no different han positive energy if one is at a place and time that distorts their ability to pereceive clearly without undue interference as to free choice or bec ablea to conceive absolutely without distortion which may or may not be possible...if you believe Buddhists or Hindus they say it is possible to get to that state...what do I know...

Edited May 4, 2020 by Rue

[French Patriot]

36 minutes ago, Rue said:

...what do I know...

You know enough to not believe B.S., from what I can see.

As a Jew, you should know that Judaism was on the right track to a moral ideology in their thinking of god, before Christianity usurped you god, and changed the moral of the biblical story to suit their homophobic and misogynous ways.

Judaism was led by those who kept the oral Torah, which can and does over rule the written Torah.

As Jesus asked the Jews, have ye forgotten that ye are gods?

Most people have.

Not Gnostic Christians and the esoteric Jews who are still within Judaism.

Study the older systems as they were and are better than the newer corrupted systems.

I hope you can see how intelligent the ancients were as compared to the mental efforts that modern preachers and theists are using with the literal reading of myths.

 

https://bigthink.com/videos/what-is-god-2-2

 

Further.

http://www.pbs.org/moyers/journal/03132009/watch.html

 

Rabbi Hillel, the older contemporary of Jesus, said that when asked to sum up the whole of Jewish teaching, while he stood on one leg, said, "The Golden Rule. That which is hateful to you, do not do to your neighbor. That is the Torah. And everything else is only commentary. Now, go and study it."

 

Please listen as to what is said about the literal reading of myths.

 

"Origen, the great second or third century Greek commentator on the Bible said that it is absolutely impossible to take these texts literally. You simply cannot do so. And he said, "God has put these sort of conundrums and paradoxes in so that we are forced to seek a deeper meaning."

 

Matt 7;12 So in everything, do to others what you would have them do to you, for this sums up the Law and the Prophets.

 

This is how early Gnostic Christians view the transition from reading myths properly to destructive literal reading and idol worship.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oR02ciandvg&feature=BFa&list=PLCBF574D

 

Regards

DL

[Rue]

On 5/4/2020 at 1:23 PM, French Patriot said:

You know enough to not believe B.S., from what I can see.

As a Jew, you should know that Judaism was on the right track to a moral ideology in their thinking of god, before Christianity usurped you god, and changed the moral of the biblical story to suit their homophobic and misogynous ways.

Judaism was led by those who kept the oral Torah, which can and does over rule the written Torah.

As Jesus asked the Jews, have ye forgotten that ye are gods?

Most people have.

Not Gnostic Christians and the esoteric Jews who are still within Judaism.

Study the older systems as they were and are better than the newer corrupted systems.

I hope you can see how intelligent the ancients were as compared to the mental efforts that modern preachers and theists are using with the literal reading of myths.

 

 

 

https://bigthink.com/videos/what-is-god-2-2

 

 

 

Further.

 

http://www.pbs.org/moyers/journal/03132009/watch.html

 

 

 

Rabbi Hillel, the older contemporary of Jesus, said that when asked to sum up the whole of Jewish teaching, while he stood on one leg, said, "The Golden Rule. That which is hateful to you, do not do to your neighbor. That is the Torah. And everything else is only commentary. Now, go and study it."

 

 

 

Please listen as to what is said about the literal reading of myths.

 

 

 

"Origen, the great second or third century Greek commentator on the Bible said that it is absolutely impossible to take these texts literally. You simply cannot do so. And he said, "God has put these sort of conundrums and paradoxes in so that we are forced to seek a deeper meaning."

 

 

 

Matt 7;12 So in everything, do to others what you would have them do to you, for this sums up the Law and the Prophets.

 

 

 

This is how early Gnostic Christians view the transition from reading myths properly to destructive literal reading and idol worship.

 

 

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oR02ciandvg&feature=BFa&list=PLCBF574D

 

 

 

Regards

 

DL

I agree with much of what you said but I do not describe Christianity as usurping the Jewish religion by creating a human God other than God. 

To me God is a borrowed word from Greek used to refer to the concept of a singular intelligent entity that created everything. It is a human construct. 

I do not define God as having human qualities but as an abstract concept of the origin of energy.

 The first Christians  never defined God in a human form. THE  story of  son of God sent to save humanity from itself in fact came from  King Constantine demanding a group of men to put into writing a set of stories to explain a value system that mixed together pagan and Christian beliefs to avoid a civil war and if fact the son of God story  is a common pagan story repeated in over 80 pagan belief systems.

The New Testament was drafted by a committee of Constantine's choosing who picked and chose from many stories yhose values they  felt  could be best used to meet Constantine's political agenda to avoid a war between pagans and Chridtians and enable a way to keep the masses under constant surveillance.

Given the erosion  of organized religion today it does not surprise me governments look to new stories to justify controlling us and nos use apps, the cell phone and internet to track us rather than confessional booths.

The creation of physical church created a confessional process that could track the thought  processes of the masses and providedan early warning system to identify  political opponents and their plots.

It also institutionalized a hierarchy of leaders to control beliefs of their followers and be used as a control agent of the state.

This control agent then went rogue and created it's own state to control other states.

Religions are based on organized structures of groups who wish to create a pack or collective a basic primal behaviour common to homo sapiens and other mammal species.  Some would argue our religions were  also influenced by insectoid behaviour and their hive mentality and reptile behaviour and their swarming mentality.

I do not understand quite frankly many of your lead ins and responses. They appear at times for me to serve as platform to use the lead ins to preach an evangelical form of Christianity.

I use the same critical approach to any institution with a hierarchy and has an ability to impose itself on others to usurp free choice if we use the word usurp.

Your use of labels like Jew or gnostic I find quaint. 

My Jewish identity is on a collective concept of shared persecution and continuing anti-semitism. It is an existential exercise and it has no one easy to stereotype definition. 

As for holy books   Jread them all as I do Aesop's fables, Isaac Bolshevik Singer's stories and passages from Taoism, Kao Tzu, Confucious, the Buddha, WWE wrestlers, not literally  but as parables with as many possible interpretations as humans wish to project on and then from gh ed CD EA words they read from these parables.

I do not literally believe Moses parted a sea or Jesus walked on water any more than I believe my favourite wrestlers are in fact the characters they play. If that were the case I would believe Rowdy Roddy Piper was my Messiah. 

So I find some of your comments in reference to what you think  I believe inaccurate.  I may not interpret the Koran or Bible literally but I am capable of seeing and understanding how others do. I do not think them wrong or right..I only get concerned ifvtheybuse their beliefs go engage in orvjustify violence or imposition of it on others.

I do not answer questions unless asked and I have no truths to share. I have atbtimes subjective opinions and at other times opinions I believe are based on objectively prove  methodology but I do not claim to know truth and never have.

For me truth is a concept that differs in each human. In my concept it's an illusion brought on by neurological or psychiatric phenomena, chemicals in the brain, hormones and chromosomes as well as environmental, political, socio-economic stimuli, medical conditions, lifestyle and dietary habits.

 

 

Edited May 20, 2020 by Rue

[Tdot]

On April 22, 2020 at 10:20 AM, French Patriot said:

So like your god, you would rather kill human souls instead of curing them.

Thanks for showing us what Satan thinks like.

Regards

DL

 

French P. French P. You choose to disrespect religion. I note the narcissistic demonfoolery stalking my account, every thread, including in here where I engaged you and everywhere else I post scholarship that his deceit cannot override. Nonetheless, just like I showed you in the Judas Iscariot thread; You cannot disregard, real life, just to make God's Will into something which you fully know God is not about. 

Humans were created to worship God by seeking, Righteousness, which is the exact opposite of seeking Sin. As Sin, can bring about evil's wraths, by which the way to avoid those wraths is by following the golden rule ---same rule which you alluded to.

Edited May 21, 2020 by Tdot

[French Patriot]

On 5/20/2020 at 2:12 PM, Rue said:

I agree with much of what you said but I do not describe Christianity as usurping the Jewish religion by creating a human God other than God. 

Oh they left Yahweh as supernatural, genocidal and infanticidal. Christians and Muslims have just ignore Midrash, which is a must if you are to understand Judaism.

Hence the quote in my last post on not reading myths literally.

On 5/20/2020 at 2:12 PM, Rue said:

It is a human construct. 

I agree. All the gods are man made.

On 5/20/2020 at 2:12 PM, Rue said:

is a common pagan story repeated in over 80 pagan belief systems.

80!

I know of about 6 son's of gods that died for us. Your reading is more extensive than mine. Way to go.

On 5/20/2020 at 2:12 PM, Rue said:

The first Christians  never defined God in a human form.

True. That stupidity came later, as you say, thanks to Constantine.

On 5/20/2020 at 2:12 PM, Rue said:

I do not understand quite frankly many of your lead ins and responses. They appear at times for me to serve as platform to use the lead ins to preach an evangelical form of Christianity.

Hell no. 

The opposite in fact. The right is wrong, to the point of ridicule, and the left is right. I preach for better than both by showing Gnostic Christian thinking and morals.

You have seen me try to have Christians engage in moral discussions and you have also seen them run for the hills every time. Not because I have the best arguments but because they cannot even argue against bad arguments.

On 5/20/2020 at 2:12 PM, Rue said:

For me truth is a concept that differs in each human.

I like an old comedians definition of truth and reality. Truth is a collective hunch.

Thanks for your informative post.

You have gone into mode, it seems. 

Have you looked into the Jewish esoteric/mystical sects?

Do they still exist as kabbalists or by some other designation? 

Regards

DL

 

 

 

[French Patriot]

On 5/20/2020 at 9:15 PM, Tdot said:

same rule which you alluded to.

Yes, and which Jesus nor Yahweh live by.

If you know what god is all about, why do you run from discussing his moral tenets with me?

I keep asking, and you keep running.

Grow some balls and we can chat to an end game instead of the garbage you like to delve into, mythos, which has no end game because all you have are lies and speculative nonsense as you cannot prove of justify anything.

I like how you brag, to yourself. Try earning the kudos your give yourself. 

Regards

DL