Why Can'T They Give A Straight LOGICAL Answer?

[Argus]

16 hours ago, cannuck said:

just cleaning up my mess...isn't there a delete post function??.

No, and it's often very annoying.

[Argus]

6 hours ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

True....American media is not obsessing over PM Trudeau and Dr. Tam.

When the circus is in town why pay attention to the painted clown in the next town over?

[bush_cheney2004]

3 minutes ago, Argus said:

When the circus is in town why pay attention to the painted clown in the next town over?

 

Because they believe the next town's circus matters more than your own.

Trump is not responsible for Canada's COVID19 preparation or response, but he makes a fine distraction from your government's failings.

 

[Argus]

4 minutes ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

Trump is not responsible for Canada's COVID19 preparation or response, b

But he is responsible for some of the cases. The number one cause was travelers coming here from the US, where the virus spread far and wide because your lousy government couldn't figure out how to screen or test people.

[bush_cheney2004]

Just now, Argus said:

But he is responsible for some of the cases. The number one cause was travelers coming here from the US, where the virus spread far and wide because your lousy government couldn't figure out how to screen or test people.

 

No, Canada is responsible for its own borders and screening, which was found to be very lacking at the border and at airports.

Freeland had to beg Trump for more 3M masks.

[Argus]

2 hours ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

No, Canada is responsible for its own borders and screening, which was found to be very lacking at the border and at airports.

And yet members of your government are blaming China. Surely you're responsible for your lack of screening and testing at your own airports.

[bush_cheney2004]

10 hours ago, Argus said:

And yet members of your government are blaming China. Surely you're responsible for your lack of screening and testing at your own airports.

 

Of course....all sovereign nations are responsible for their borders.

You blamed Canadian snowbirds.

 

[Argus]

9 hours ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

 

Of course....all sovereign nations are responsible for their borders.

You blamed Canadian snowbirds.

Untrue. I blame our government for not screening people at the borders and not ordering them to self-isolation. Handing out pamphlets is not adequate.

[Guest]

Just now, Argus said:

Untrue. I blame our government for not screening people at the borders and not ordering them to self-isolation. Handing out pamphlets is not adequate.

And there weren't enough pamphlets to go around.  They were told to pass them on when they'd read them.

Just kidding...

[bush_cheney2004]

1 minute ago, Argus said:

Untrue. I blame our government for not screening people at the borders and not ordering them to self-isolation. Handing out pamphlets is not adequate.

 

The messaging from your government was all over the place, from not letting "sick" Canadians board inbound aircraft to requiring 14 days quarantine for all returning Canadians...sorta.    Trudeau added to the confusion by suggesting that all Canadians return to Canada immediately, regardless of their ability to do so.

The border was not closed to non-essential travel until late in the game.  Canadian air carriers were still fetching citizens and legal residents, including the geniuses who jumped on cruise ships for a vacation they will never forget.

 

 

 

[Argus]

7 minutes ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

 

The messaging from your government was all over the place, from not letting "sick" Canadians board inbound aircraft to requiring 14 days quarantine for all returning Canadians...sorta.    Trudeau added to the confusion by suggesting that all Canadians return to Canada immediately, regardless of their ability to do so.

The border was not closed to non-essential travel until late in the game.  Canadian air carriers were still fetching citizens and legal residents, including the geniuses who jumped on cruise ships for a vacation they will never forget.

Yes. So? And how did this differ from your country? Aside from closing the border to China?

[bush_cheney2004]

Just now, Argus said:

Yes. So? And how did this differ from your country? Aside from closing the border to China?

 

Very little practical difference...but this thread was about Canada.

Turns out the spread from China was already well underway by late 2019, and the west coast may already have some herd immunity.

The U.S. east coast is getting hammered by the European strain, which ultimately came from China as well.

[Queenmandy85]

On 4/10/2020 at 4:31 AM, betsy said:

Bottom-line:  Even Tam is now recommending  for us to wear masks!

I think she is saying "stay home, wash your hands."

If you do that, you won't need a mask.

Happy Easter Betsy. Take care

[betsy]

2 minutes ago, Queenmandy85 said:

I think she is saying "stay home, wash your hands."

If you do that, you won't need a mask.

Happy Easter Betsy. Take care

Well - I'm talking about groceries!  She did talked about wearing a mask.

Btw, you don't go to the other forum anymore?  DP?

Happy Easter, too.  Stay safe. 

Edited April 11, 2020 by betsy

[Rue]

On 4/10/2020 at 12:55 PM, bush_cheney2004 said:

 

Because they believe the next town's circus matters more than your own.

Trump is not responsible for Canada's COVID19 preparation or response, but he makes a fine distraction from your government's failings.

 

Or his own government's for that matter. All governments have screwed up..hopefully they learn from it..blaming its leaders is I guess karma...these leaders are given personal credit for all the good stuff they  never did...so they take shit for all kinds of bad stuff they never did..goes with the job I guess.

Edited April 11, 2020 by Rue

[Rue]

1 hour ago, betsy said:

Well - I'm talking about groceries!  She did talked about wearing a mask.

Btw, you don't go to the other forum anymore?  DP?

Happy Easter, too.  Stay safe. 

Happy Easter. I would try hug you but you would probably kill me with a waffle iron so I will stay far far away. You could put lamb blood on your door but I think on this one just stick to Leviticus.

Edited April 11, 2020 by Rue

[bush_cheney2004]

41 minutes ago, Rue said:

Or his own government's for that matter. All governments have screwed up..hopefully they learn from it..blaming its leaders is I guess karma...these leaders are given personal credit for all the good stuff they  never did...so they take shit for all kinds of bad stuff they never did..goes with the job I guess.

 

Right, but it is not just governments or elected leaders.   The medical experts were also asleep as the switch, from the WHO on down.

The leaders only know how to throw money at a crisis after it happens. 

[betsy]

1 hour ago, Rue said:

Happy Easter. I would try hug you but you would probably kill me with a waffle iron so I will stay far far away. You could put lamb blood on your door but I think on this one just stick to Leviticus.

Happy Easter, Rue.  

 

[cannuck]

On 4/9/2020 at 10:47 AM, Argus said:

Wearing a mask doesn't have side effects.

Yeah, it does if distancing is thus ignored.

BTW: ran across this today:   Full article at https://www.usatoday.com/in-depth/ne...ts/2866340001/

Coronavirus might spread much farther than 6 feet in the air. CDC says wear a mask in public.

"The study published in the Journal of the American Medical Association found that under the right conditions, liquid droplets from sneezes, coughs and just exhaling can travel more than 26 feet and linger in the air for minutes.

Findings such as these may have some bearing on the CDC's recommendation on Friday that Americans wear non-surgical face masks in public — especially in places "where other social distancing measures are difficult to maintain."

“There is no virtual wall at this 3- to 6-feet distance” says Lydia Bourouiba, the study's author, who specializes in fluid dynamics and is an associate professor at the Massachusetts Institute of Technology. These findings suggest the greatest risk is for health care workers working with infected patients, she says.

As seen in this video, shot from different views and posted with Bourouiba's report, the invisible cloud can travel up to 26 feet:"

...

"A lot goes into how far the cloud and its droplets travel: a person's physiology, the environment, humidity and temperature. “The cloud can reach up to 26 feet for sneezes and less than that for coughs — about 16 to 19 feet,” Bourouiba says.

According to a 2009 World Health Organization report, when someone coughs, they can spray up to 3,000 droplets. A sneeze could yield 40,000."

""It is important, therefore, to understand that such masks are not necessarily protective for the wearer in terms of preventing inhalation of the residual droplets in the air, which enter from the sides unfiltered, but they can provide a way to reduce the range of contamination from the droplets-laden cloud.”"

"The start of allergy season could also hasten new infections. Bourouiba warned that asymptomatic carriers could spread COVID-19 through any sneezing and coughing triggered by allergies."

[Argus]

16 minutes ago, cannuck said:

Yeah, it does if distancing is thus ignored.

This is the same sort of thing which says people can't be trusted to wear masks because they'll touch them and fool around with them and not get them to fit right etc. And sure, there are idiots out there. Every day more of them are arrested for spitting at or coughing on police. But most people are smart enough to figure it out. And the flip side is many people touch their face constantly. Having a mask on might remind them to not do so.

[cannuck]

2 minutes ago, Argus said:

This is the same sort of thing which says people can't be trusted to wear masks because they'll touch them and fool around with them and not get them to fit right etc. And sure, there are idiots out there. Every day more of them are arrested for spitting at or coughing on police. But most people are smart enough to figure it out. And the flip side is many people touch their face constantly. Having a mask on might remind them to not do so.

All bringing us back to what I have been saying about Dr. Tam.   She no doubt is far more aware of the issues and complexities than we untrained boobs dabbling in someone else's back yard.

This was the most telling sentence from the link above:  ""It is important, therefore, to understand that such masks are not necessarily protective for the wearer in terms of preventing inhalation of the residual droplets in the air, which enter from the sides unfiltered, but they can provide a way to reduce the range of contamination from the droplets-laden cloud.”"

[Argus]

2 minutes ago, cannuck said:

All bringing us back to what I have been saying about Dr. Tam.   She no doubt is far more aware of the issues and complexities than we untrained boobs dabbling in someone else's back yard.

This was the most telling sentence from the link above:  ""It is important, therefore, to understand that such masks are not necessarily protective for the wearer in terms of preventing inhalation of the residual droplets in the air, which enter from the sides unfiltered, but they can provide a way to reduce the range of contamination from the droplets-laden cloud.”"

They are indeed not 'necessarily' protective of the wearer. Yes. That doesn't mean they offer no protection. If someone is shooting at you will you hold up a shield which will likely stop half the bullets or not bother because it won't stop them all?

[cannuck]

1 minute ago, Argus said:

They are indeed not 'necessarily' protective of the wearer. Yes. That doesn't mean they offer no protection. If someone is shooting at you will you hold up a shield which will likely stop half the bullets or not bother because it won't stop them all?

This is where it gets into the technicalities.   Unless it is a sealed mask, properly fitted (and then is not a mask but a respirator), it does next to nothing (as flow will bias towards the leaks that can augment inhalation of contaminant).   A lesser mask performs even poorer - and the majority of what is here is counterfeit crap from China.   I have been looking at some FFP3 Euro masks and find that to reach the Type IIR level, the delta P across the filtration medium is much greater - thus will leak much more as a mask.

It's not a matter of half the bullets vs. none, but the false sense of security means half of a thousand times more shots being deflected.   Do the math.

[betsy]

19 hours ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

 

The messaging from your government was all over the place,

They also informed Canadians that it's okay to travel (during the early stages) - then they turned around to say, "you all gotta come home now!"

[betsy]

14 hours ago, cannuck said:

This is where it gets into the technicalities.   Unless it is a sealed mask, properly fitted (and then is not a mask but a respirator), it does next to nothing (as flow will bias towards the leaks that can augment inhalation of contaminant).   A lesser mask performs even poorer - and the majority of what is here is counterfeit crap from China.   I have been looking at some FFP3 Euro masks and find that to reach the Type IIR level, the delta P across the filtration medium is much greater - thus will leak much more as a mask.

It's not a matter of half the bullets vs. none, but the false sense of security means half of a thousand times more shots being deflected.   Do the math.

Lol.   Tam has changed her tune now.  All masks are okay - better than none. 

 

 

Quote

 

Dr. Tam’s about-face on masks damages trust at a crucial time

 

This week, Dr. Theresa Tam did a complete about-face: actually, the use of non-medical masks can help to control the spread of COVID-19, she said. “Wearing a non-medical mask, even if you have no symptoms, is an additional measure that you can take to protect others around you in situations where physical distancing is difficult to maintain, such as in public transit or maybe in the grocery store.”

 

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/opinion/article-dr-tams-about-face-on-masks-damages-trust-at-a-crucial-time/

 

We have to assume the position that we could be asymptomatic!

 

 

 

 

Quote

 

14 hours ago, cannuck said:

All bringing us back to what I have been saying about Dr. Tam.   She no doubt is far more aware of the issues and complexities than we untrained boobs dabbling in someone else's back yard.

 

If that's the case, you should agree with her! 

 

actually, the use of non-medical masks can help to control the spread of COVID-19, she said. “Wearing a non-medical mask, even if you have no symptoms, is an additional measure that you can take to protect others around you in situations where physical distancing is difficult to maintain, such as in public transit or maybe in the grocery store.”

Edited April 12, 2020 by betsy