Peter Mackay and Jeb! Bush

[August1991]

Am I the only one who sees a similar resemblance?

=====

IMHO, this Trump/BoJo/Brexit attitude sorta sweeping the Anglo world is not striking Canada in the same way because, well, we are not an Anglo country.

But make no mistake: this attitude is also striking Canada because, well, people in Quebec have a particular view of, uh, survival - as Margaret Atwood incorrectly and badly described it.   

 

 

[Moonlight Graham]

August I love your threads.

[August1991]

On 2/16/2020 at 11:14 PM, Moonlight Graham said:

August I love your threads.

Après tout, I love this terrain, including the snow and rain.

And, as it happens, I've generally loved people who survive.

[eyeball]

On 2/15/2020 at 8:20 PM, August1991 said:

IMHO, this Trump/BoJo/Brexit attitude sorta sweeping the Anglo world is not striking Canada in the same way because, well, we are not an Anglo country.

But make no mistake: this attitude is also striking Canada because, well, people in Quebec have a particular view of, uh, survival - as Margaret Atwood incorrectly and badly described it. 

Aren't you overlooking the part of the country where Quebec's views are often given as one more reason to exit Canada?  Ironically its being overlooked that's given as the main reason.

[SkyHigh]

On 2/15/2020 at 11:20 PM, August1991 said:

people in Quebec have a particular view of, uh, survival -

May i assume you speak french fluently?

That you understand the difference between the words, souveraineté association, souverainiste, nationalistes, and indépendantiste? 

Because if you don't, your in no place to comment on Quebec politics

Don't get me wrong, I in NO way, shape or form support the separation of Quebec, but having now lived in Montreal for almost 20 and speaking fluent french i can now appreciate the nuances of the movement, and the fact that many of their reasonable "demands"( not all their demands are reasonable) for more autonomy whould be supported by other provincial governments.

As far a survival, the french language is worth protecting, and again though it can most definitely go to far in some areas, bill 101 overall is net positive, and will prevent a Catalonia situation here

Not to mention the original "souveraineté association", proposed by René Levesque (that was actually the name he wanted and not the "Partie Québécois" that was finally decided upon against his will)gave us things like campaign finance laws and nationalized(that what they call province run here) enery, things now taken for granted by most Canadians.

 

[August1991]

On 2/19/2020 at 1:11 AM, eyeball said:

Aren't you overlooking the part of the country where Quebec's views are often given as one more reason to exit Canada?  Ironically its being overlooked that's given as the main reason.

No, and I say this without sarcasm/irony, I love skating. In winter.

But I hate the kids/idiots who want to play hockey while I merely want to skate.

Edited February 23, 2020 by August1991

[Rue]

On 2/20/2020 at 6:04 PM, SkyHigh said:

May i assume you speak french fluently?

That you understand the difference between the words, souveraineté association, souverainiste, nationalistes, and indépendantiste? 

Because if you don't, your in no place to comment on Quebec politics

Don't get me wrong, I in NO way, shape or form support the separation of Quebec, but having now lived in Montreal for almost 20 and speaking fluent french i can now appreciate the nuances of the movement, and the fact that many of their reasonable "demands"( not all their demands are reasonable) for more autonomy whould be supported by other provincial governments.

As far a survival, the french language is worth protecting, and again though it can most definitely go to far in some areas, bill 101 overall is net positive, and will prevent a Catalonia situation here

Not to mention the original "souveraineté association", proposed by René Levesque (that was actually the name he wanted and not the "Partie Québécois" that was finally decided upon against his will)gave us things like campaign finance laws and nationalized(that what they call province run here) enery, things now taken for granted by most Canadians.

 

You also get why as a Jew(minority) from Montreal, being bilingual was for me not a political issue but one of common courtesy. 90% of the province spoke French, why would I not? I never saw it as a political issue until it was used symbolically to express a greater anxiety Quebec felt in North America. I did experience a Catholic church anti Semitism in the Quebecois culture but nothing that could not be settled on a hockey rink or football field and sometimes in certain work sectors where being a Jew or any minority was verboten. There's a reason we went into professions and started out own hospitals in Quebec and elsewhere in Canada, no different than many other minorities. My model of dealing with it was from the Irish I grew up with. Never apologize for your heritage but don't get to stupid about it you still need the guy to play hockey with.

Levesque as you were well aware was in the Minister in charge of electricity in Lesage's government and actually felt Quebec got ripped off in hydro deals although how he arrived at that conclusion when it was in fact Newfoundland ripped off in the hydro deal with Quebec is beyond me. Levesque was no bigot. He was there at the first concentration camps as a war correspondent seeing it first hand. The man never used a bigoted word against minorities in Quebec. Some of his colleagues though were out and out bigots. Parizeau was one example. Luciens Bouchard who was a Tory was no bigot. But other than those two, and Johnson of course, the rest of that movement got taken over by neo nationalists with out and out fascist tendencies couched in reference to protecting minorities and the references in French were never subtle.

Those of us brought up on the Mordecai Richler perception of Quebec, i.e., the minorities caught in between the old time English and French realized without us in the middle as a buffer zone they really did not like each other. So we managed as the buffers and we did well.  We were the most cosmopolitan city even more so than Vancouver at one point with all  our minorities thriving and providing bagels to  both English and French and everyone was interconnected by the religion of Maurice Richard and Les Canadiens which to this day remains sacred ground. 

Today I have to agree with you, what Quebec asks for is what all other provinces want but.. I would add.,.. HAVE NOT been given because they haven't been able to use language as the pretext to claim victimhood.

Ah its a strange world.  I respect Quebec's right to protect its culture no different than I do native peoples,  Newfoundland's or Alberta's  on and on but when it comes to political jurisdiction squabbles over who controls natural resources, I become grumpy Sky. As a taxpayer I do not car which government does the job as long as both governments to not be redundant and corrupt about it. I think too many politicians are simply building their power base and only that. What do I know, because I define Quebec by only two things, bagels and Les Canadiens. Everything else is b.s. Albertans need to invent their own bagel. They have  had both their teams win Stanley Cups so they have no need to whine. Only Vancouver and Winnipeg get to.  Quebec City never should have had any team and Atlantic Canadians I wish could have their own team in Halifax called the Mooseheads or even better the Atlantic Stompin Toms named after the patron saint of PEI.

 

[SkyHigh]

On 2/23/2020 at 9:56 AM, Rue said:

Jew(minority) from Montreal

The experience of minorities in Quebec is most definitely full of nuance. The contributions of minorities ie Jewish, Greek, Portuguese etc..are undeniable yet often ignored especially from those advocating for separation, in fact I feel one of the major stumbling blocks to Quebec fully integrating into the "Canadian ideal" is that they're(politicians, media, etc..) quick to bring up concerns that revolve around, perceived or valid afronts to their linguistic minority, but at the same time refuse to acknowledge the influence and treatment of minorities in the province.

On 2/23/2020 at 9:56 AM, Rue said:

.  I respect Quebec's right to protect its culture

Here I made a point to talk about "protection of the french language" and not solely Quebec, as they do not speak for every francophone, and I resent when separatists claim Quebec is the only french nation in North America, willfully omitting,Franco Ontarienne,Franco Manitobain, Acadiens, etc.... My roots are Acadian( the first and longest existing french nation) but because i was born in Toronto and speak with an accent( though im essentially bilingual,with more french blood coursing through my viens than anything else) im perceived as an Anglophone. 

 

On 2/23/2020 at 9:56 AM, Rue said:

I would add.,.. HAVE NOT been given because they haven't been able to use language as the pretext to claim victimhood

Here i must respectfully disagree, though language has been used as a pretext(bill 101 of course an exception, as it serves one purpose and is independent of separation) it(language) I feel was just used as a manner to coalesce people around a political issue(levesques political genius) and if any other jurisdiction could come together in the same way similar results would arise, also the shear size of Quebec(25% of our population) and it's proximity to Ontario(economic motor of Canada) which together represent 60% of our population, are major contributors

 

[August1991]

On 2/23/2020 at 9:56 AM, Rue said:

...

Those of us brought up on the Mordecai Richler perception of Quebec....

....

 

Wow.

=====

Lemberg no longer exists, and I'm not Jewish. 

 

 

Edited February 26, 2020 by August1991

[August1991]

On 2/24/2020 at 1:16 PM, SkyHigh said:

.... My roots are Acadian( the first and longest existing french nation) but because i was born in Toronto and speak with an accent( though im essentially bilingual,with more french blood coursing through my viens than anything else) im perceived as an Anglophone.

...

Your roots?

Zillions of people in Canada have myriad roots. Heck, we all have "parents" who lived at the time of the Pyramids.

IMHO, your claim to roots is irrelevant.

=====

Should the State treat/respect you differently? Should the State make a distinction between you and others?

IMHO, the State should do so if:  

You cannot change the colour of your skin.

You cannot change whether you are left-handed or right-handed.

You cannot change your accent when speaking (unless you don't speak an Official State Language).

(and so on)

Edited February 28, 2020 by August1991

[SkyHigh]

9 hours ago, August1991 said:

Your roots?

Zillions of people in Canada have myriad roots. Heck, we all have "parents" who lived at the time of the Pyramids.

IMHO, your claim to roots is irrelevant.

=====

Should the State treat/respect you differently? Should the State make a distinction between you and others?

IMHO, the State should do so if:  

You cannot change the colour of your skin.

You cannot change whether you are left-handed or right-handed.

You cannot change your accent when speaking (unless you don't speak an Official State Language).

(and so on)

My "roots" were mentioned for ONE reason only, to illustrate that French Canadians exist outside of Quebec, nothing more. No idea what your objection could be with that