70th Anniversary of liberation of Buchenwald

[taxme]

31 minutes ago, DogOnPorch said:

Plus, you've got it backwards...

Bormann was Klopher's boss. Heydrich was Eichmann's boss.

After Heydrich's assassination by Czech commandos in 1942, Eichmann and Bormann were forced to work together. Bormann as head of all domestic activities in Reich territory handed over all responsibility for solving the 'Jewish Problem' to Eichmann. But since they both saw eye to eye on this matter...it wasn't a problem to Bormann. Eichmann and his SS cohorts were kept busy well away from Berlin...or East Prussia...Hitler's other hangout. 

Give me a break with all the names you posted, will you. So, I got mixed up with some names.  Who cares. Geez. 

Maybe you would like to explain to me as to why Hitler had this so called hatred for Jews, and as to why Hitler wanted to get rid of them? There must be a good reason for this, right? This I need you to explain this to me. The floor is yours. 

[DogOnPorch]

Just now, taxme said:

Give me a break with all the names you posted, will you. So, I got mixed up with some names.  Who cares. Geez. 

Maybe you would like to explain to me as to why Hitler had this so called hatred for Jews, and as to why Hitler wanted to get rid of them? There must be a good reason for this, right? This I need you to explain this to me. The floor is yours. 

 

You can start a separate Holocaust Denial thread. I'll see you there.

[taxme]

1 minute ago, DogOnPorch said:

 

Why bother?

You're free to deny that the Holocaust happened.

I am free to deny anything I want to deny, and I should to be able to question or challenge anything I want to question or challenge. I do not have to believe any and everything that is said unless there is absolute proof that some historical event did take place. Don't forget that to the victor goes the spoils and the bragging. Gawd only knows what stories that the victors were/are pushing is true or not. It's for dam sure that the stories that have been told about the holocaust, which happened over seventy years ago, should not just be believed and taken as the gospel truth. There will be some lies thrown in the mix for sure, and it is up to us all to try and find those lies and expose them for all to see. Just saying.  

[DogOnPorch]

Anyways...it's rather easy to tell the two factions apart.

The SS were generally in black or dark grey (w/ death heads) uniforms while Bormann's people were in khaki brown uniforms hearkening back to the Brown Shirts.

As for taking notes...both the SS and Bormann's Reich Secretary office took down everything. And much of it survived the War.

You can even download a collection of these various note taking sessions with Hitler in attendance by Bormann himself called 'Hitler's Table Talk'.

[taxme]

9 minutes ago, DogOnPorch said:

 

You can start a separate Holocaust Denial thread. I'll see you there.

Nice avoidance, fella. A simple enough question that you appear to want to avoid answering. By you refusing to answer that question I asked of you than what makes you try to make it appear as though you are such an expert on what happened in the 2nd WW and the holocaust, and what was said? Surely, you must know as to why Hitler had this hatred for Jews? If anyone here can also answer my question, please do so? I am just a curious guy asking a curious simple question. I kind of doubt that anyone can. Just saying. 

[taxme]

6 minutes ago, DogOnPorch said:

Anyways...it's rather easy to tell the two factions apart.

The SS were generally in black or dark grey (w/ death heads) uniforms while Bormann's people were in khaki brown uniforms hearkening back to the Brown Shirts.

As for taking notes...both the SS and Bormann's Reich Secretary office took down everything. And much of it survived the War.

You can even download a collection of these various note taking sessions with Hitler in attendance by Bormann himself called 'Hitler's Table Talk'.

I doubt that even if I started a new thread on holocaust denial and asked you the same question as to why Hitler hated Jews so much and wanted to get rid of them you would still avoid the question. Makes me wonder as to why people like you hate Hitler so much but cannot explain why? Just asking again. But the floor is yours to use now. 

Edited January 31, 2020 by taxme

[DogOnPorch]

Hitler wrote in Mein Kampf:

"...the nationalization of our masses will succeed only when, aside from all the positive struggle for the soul of our people, their international poisoners are exterminated...If at the beginning of the War and during the War twelve or fifteen thousand of these Hebrew corrupters of the nation had been subjected to poison gas, such as had to be endured in the field by hundreds of thousands of our very best German workers of all classes and professions, then the sacrifice of millions at the front would not have been in vain."

...not that the fellow was a bad artist...he just took getting rejected from Vienna's Art Academy a little hard. Just a little...

Anyways...he told us what he was going to do...and collected huge royalties in the process. Enough to renovate the Berghof into his private palace...and buy-up most of Berchtesgaden sitting below it.

[Guest]

1 hour ago, taxme said:

 There are so many pros and cons to be read and heard on the internet as to what really happened in those concentration camps.

What were the pros?

[Rue]

On ‎1‎/‎30‎/‎2020 at 3:02 AM, kactus said:

Others died in the process but still does not negate the fact that many allies including civilians , Russians, gypsies, etc lost lives. It was inevitable and must not be forgotten.

You now twice feel it necessary twice to state other people other than Jews died in the holocaust. Interestingly no one suggested or stated otherwise. 

Your need to state the above lends to the appearance you are trying to engaging in a passive aggressive exercise of downplaying the significance of why and how Jews were targeted and  died in the holocaust.

Show some integrity and start a thread denying or trivializing the holocaust. I am sure Taxme will join you.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Rue]

17 hours ago, bcsapper said:

What were the pros?

Holocaust deniers like to come on such threads and detract. You really think Taxme is interested in anything other than holocaust denial because he hates Jews? Don't waste your intelligence on him. 

[Rue]

18 hours ago, taxme said:

I doubt that even if I started a new thread on holocaust denial and asked you the same question as to why Hitler hated Jews so much and wanted to get rid of them you would still avoid the question. Makes me wonder as to why people like you hate Hitler so much but cannot explain why? Just asking again. But the floor is yours to use now. 

So go start a thread.

Edited February 1, 2020 by Rue

[Rue]

19 hours ago, taxme said:

I am free to deny anything I want to deny, and I should to be able to question or challenge anything I want to question or challenge. I do not have to believe any and everything that is said unless there is absolute proof that some historical event did take place. 

So why have you not started a thread? Go on start one. 

Edited February 1, 2020 by Rue

[Guest]

8 minutes ago, Rue said:

Holocaust deniers like to come on such threads and detract. You really think Taxme is interested in anything other than holocaust denial because he hates Jews? Don't waste your intelligence on him. 

I couldn't help it.  I've never heard anyone talk of the "pros and cons" of the Holocaust before.

[Rue]

18 hours ago, taxme said:

Give me a break with all the names you posted, will you. So, I got mixed up with some names.  Who cares. Geez. 

 

 

 

[Rue]

18 minutes ago, bcsapper said:

I couldn't help it.  I've never heard anyone talk of the "pros and cons" of the Holocaust before.

Lol. Ask him what a Jewish Nazi is.

[kactus]

1 hour ago, Rue said:

You now twice feel it necessary twice to state other people other than Jews died in the holocaust. Interestingly no one suggested or stated otherwise. 

Your need to state the above lends to the appearance you are trying to engaging in a passive aggressive exercise of downplaying the significance of why and how Jews were targeted and  died in the holocaust.

Show some integrity and start a thread denying or trivializing the holocaust. I am sure Taxme will join you.

 

 

 

 

 

 

You’re free to interpret my posts whichever way you wish

[taxme]

18 hours ago, bcsapper said:

What were the pros?

The prisoners got fed for one. They were not starved to death. 

[taxme]

1 hour ago, Rue said:

So go start a thread.

We are talking about a concentration camp here. I do not believe that a new thread needs to be started.

But why don't you just answer the question? You appear to know more about Hitler and the holocaust than I do. Come on. 

[taxme]

1 hour ago, Rue said:

So why have you not started a thread? Go on start one. 

Start a new thread on what? That I have a right to my opinions and points of view? 

 

1 hour ago, Rue said:

Holocaust deniers like to come on such threads and detract. You really think Taxme is interested in anything other than holocaust denial because he hates Jews? Don't waste your intelligence on him. 

I would like you to point out to me verbatim as to where I have ever said that I was a "holocaust denier"? I only questioned some of the things that have been said about the holocaust that do not add up according to what some researchers and investigators had to say about what happened during the so called holocaust. You are the one that is always trying to show and spread hatred around here, fella. I question, you attack. 

[taxme]

1 hour ago, Rue said:

Lol. Ask him what a Jewish Nazi is.

You tell me what a Jewish Nazi is now that you have mentioned it? Go ahead, make your day. 

[cannuck]

I can agree that there is a considerable amount of contradictory information about the Holocaust on the interwebs, but that can be said of ANYTHING.

My take on the whole affair comes from a few very first hand observers.  For one, of course, my wife's Aunt.  She was there, in a camp and was a first hand witness and victim of so many atrocities.  I have absolutely no doubt about her credibility nor her accuracy.   The second, strangely, would be one of my recently deceased very close friends.   Hitler Yugen - a genuine Nazi.  NEVER did he ever even suggest that there was anything but a slaughter of millions in the death camps of his youth (he was a driver for the SS in early teens, so once again, an eye witness WITHOUT any pro-Jewish bias...quite the contrary).  Finally, another very close friend with whom we will celebrate his 98th birthday in 9 weeks (we usually do this while participating in closing runs at nearby ski hill.).  He was a USAF sergeant at the end of the war and occupational force member for almost 2 years.  Once more, a first hand account from a highly credible source who was actually on hand for camp liberation, support of survivors and some relocation.  The mere suggestion that somehow these events did not take place, or were in any way less of an atrocity than history has very well documented is exactly WHY this story must be told.

Were there other victims?  Sure as Hell were, and once again, these are very well documented.   BUT: the question from TM was not denial of the Holocaust (I think) but why is it that the Jewish side of the story is so well told and persistant while other victims seem to be forgotten?   The answer, IMHO, is pretty simple:  the Jewish population  was the well documented primary target in the "Final Solution", and within their culture, the story has been very well preserved and related to the HUGE ongoing issue of displacing a massive surviving population to yet another hostile location.  The amount of organization to do this is significant.   Why do the Founding Fathers of the USA still have such great coverage and presence in our everyday lives?   Just a few tiny skirmishes with the Brits and a handfull of smart guys who wrote a bit of good documentation.   BUT: the end result has been a great nation, thus the events and people that defined it loom far greater in our rear view mirror.    Add to that the financial success of the Jewish community IN the USA and their disproportionate presence in the ownership of the print and electronic media that shape our everyday opinions.   If the Roma, for instance, want some kind of similar high profile for their suffering at the hands of the Nazis, they are quite free to buy a few publishing and broadcasting networks and have at it.

Curiously, I too had a German girlfriend all through high school.  The difference is that we were raised on military bases, and my girlfriend's Dad (and a few other friend's Fathers) were on the opposite side of many battles from other Fathers on that same base.  It wasn't all that long after the war, and we boomers were to say the least, surrounded by WWII history and people.  While there was a small amount of open hostility, and a large amount of discrimination, at NO TIME was there ever any great fuss over the Holocaust either to validate or deny the events.  I feel and felt that a lot of this was left unsaid at the time out of respect for the victims and the desire of our parents to spare us from the horrors of that war.  I say this in support of the previous paragraph: the survivors and their cultural mates were busy recovering, not yet able to organize and "advertise".

[DogOnPorch]

29 minutes ago, cannuck said:

I can agree that there is a considerable amount of contradictory information about the Holocaust on the interwebs, but that can be said of ANYTHING.

 

 

Yes indeed.

When my German uncle used to tell his war stories along with all the other fellows telling their tales, he wasn't being coy about his duties burning both partisans and Jews in barns with flamethrowers. And it certainly wasn't in the hopes of convincing taxme that he was on the job.

[DogOnPorch]

3 hours ago, Rue said:

So why have you not started a thread? Go on start one. 

 

No need as he is sea-lioning.

No amount of evidence would convince.

What's amazing is how closely tied the War in the Middle East is to the Holocaust...via the Grand Mufti that none of the pro-Arab types like to mention...or like having mentioned.

Or that Arafat was his nephew.

[taxme]

22 hours ago, cannuck said:

I can agree that there is a considerable amount of contradictory information about the Holocaust on the interwebs, but that can be said of ANYTHING.

My take on the whole affair comes from a few very first hand observers.  For one, of course, my wife's Aunt.  She was there, in a camp and was a first hand witness and victim of so many atrocities.  I have absolutely no doubt about her credibility nor her accuracy.   The second, strangely, would be one of my recently deceased very close friends.   Hitler Yugen - a genuine Nazi.  NEVER did he ever even suggest that there was anything but a slaughter of millions in the death camps of his youth (he was a driver for the SS in early teens, so once again, an eye witness WITHOUT any pro-Jewish bias...quite the contrary).  Finally, another very close friend with whom we will celebrate his 98th birthday in 9 weeks (we usually do this while participating in closing runs at nearby ski hill.).  He was a USAF sergeant at the end of the war and occupational force member for almost 2 years.  Once more, a first hand account from a highly credible source who was actually on hand for camp liberation, support of survivors and some relocation.  The mere suggestion that somehow these events did not take place, or were in any way less of an atrocity than history has very well documented is exactly WHY this story must be told.

Were there other victims?  Sure as Hell were, and once again, these are very well documented.   BUT: the question from TM was not denial of the Holocaust (I think) but why is it that the Jewish side of the story is so well told and persistant while other victims seem to be forgotten?   The answer, IMHO, is pretty simple:  the Jewish population  was the well documented primary target in the "Final Solution", and within their culture, the story has been very well preserved and related to the HUGE ongoing issue of displacing a massive surviving population to yet another hostile location.  The amount of organization to do this is significant.   Why do the Founding Fathers of the USA still have such great coverage and presence in our everyday lives?   Just a few tiny skirmishes with the Brits and a handfull of smart guys who wrote a bit of good documentation.   BUT: the end result has been a great nation, thus the events and people that defined it loom far greater in our rear view mirror.    Add to that the financial success of the Jewish community IN the USA and their disproportionate presence in the ownership of the print and electronic media that shape our everyday opinions.   If the Roma, for instance, want some kind of similar high profile for their suffering at the hands of the Nazis, they are quite free to buy a few publishing and broadcasting networks and have at it.

Curiously, I too had a German girlfriend all through high school.  The difference is that we were raised on military bases, and my girlfriend's Dad (and a few other friend's Fathers) were on the opposite side of many battles from other Fathers on that same base.  It wasn't all that long after the war, and we boomers were to say the least, surrounded by WWII history and people.  While there was a small amount of open hostility, and a large amount of discrimination, at NO TIME was there ever any great fuss over the Holocaust either to validate or deny the events.  I feel and felt that a lot of this was left unsaid at the time out of respect for the victims and the desire of our parents to spare us from the horrors of that war.  I say this in support of the previous paragraph: the survivors and their cultural mates were busy recovering, not yet able to organize and "advertise".

As you already wrote "the Jewish community in the US and their disproportionate presence in the ownership of the print and electronic media that shape our everyday opinions" is quite evident and quite true. The Jews are shaping our opinions and points of view on many events, past and present, every day, as they pretty much do own the print and electronic media, and this is where the problems and questions come into play. I am not trying to downplay anything here about the holocaust. Something terrible happened and many people of many backgrounds suffered while in some prison camp in Germany. We never hear all that much about the Holodomor where millions of Ukrainians were pretty much starved to death and murdered by the Russian communists. Yet we hardly ever hear about that holocaust and what the evils of communism was and still is all about today. Nazi party's are not allowed but communist party's are allowed. Why do you think this is so? Communism gets a pass, while Hitler gets the book thrown at him. Something is truly wrong with this picture. Question more. 

As one who tries to look for and get the other side of the story, the other side of the story that I have read on the internet in the past does appear at times to conflict with the supposedly real story of what really happened during the war and the holocaust. I know that there are many Jews here who take it as an an attack and are offended by my actions. But this is what freedom of speech is all about? As Larry King(Jewish)always says at the end of his show: "question more".  And I have taken him up on those two words he always says at the end of his show. But what annoys me even more is the fact that the German people of today cannot be allowed to forget what took place during the Nazi regime, and are being forced to pay reparations to the Jews for what someone else did 80 years ago. When the mainstream Jewish media keeps using the word Nazi all the time that surely must have to be an insult to the German people who no doubt are offended by the use of that word because they know that the word is being used to remind and against them all the time.  Question more. There is always to sides to every story. The problem here is which story or event is to be believed and which story or event is no to be believed. A quote; "To know one side of the story is to know nothing at all". Question more. 

But thanks for being decent and civil in your reply, and not call me some nasty name like some members here who always enjoy doing just that. They do indeed prefer to enjoy to speak before they think. Just saying.  

 

[taxme]

22 hours ago, DogOnPorch said:

 

No need as he is sea-lioning.

No amount of evidence would convince.

What's amazing is how closely tied the War in the Middle East is to the Holocaust...via the Grand Mufti that none of the pro-Arab types like to mention...or like having mentioned.

Or that Arafat was his nephew.

Again, I will ask you, and your tag team partner Rue? Why do you think that Hitler had this hatred for Jews? No one hates another person unless there is some good reason for it. What pizzed Hitler off about the Jews that made him want to get rid of them? A simple question, don't you think? Instead of constantly trying to avoid the question, why not just answer the question? Just give me something, will you? Over to you.