Tom DeLay

[kimmy]

You are incorrect. Autonomous breathing and heartbeat can't be sustained without some degree of brain function.

The heart, in fact, has its own "pacemaker" and does beat on its own. Breathing is controlled by a reflex located in the brain-stem. So is swallowing. So is dilation of the pupils in response to light. Eye movements, tongue movements, and various other movements of the head that Schiavo supports said "proved" she was not brain-dead. None of this indicates the presence of any activity in the cerebrum, the part that of the brain that provides the functions that we think of as thought and personality and emotion and identity. The CT scan that was widely circulated during the controversy, and later the autopsy, proved conclusively how severely atrophied her cerebrum had become.

At any rate, the differences between the circumstances of Terri Schiavo and DeLay's father are similar enough that you'd think DeLay might have some empathy instead of running around the country calling Michael Schiavo a barbarian and a murderer.

-k

[BHS]

Michael Schiavo had "moved on" with his life, and formed a common-law marriage with another woman, by whom he had two children. This isn't bigamy? This isn't grounds for a divorce? Under any other circumstances his spousal rights would have been extinguished long before he "remembered" that his former wife had casually mentioned she didn't want to live on life support.

[BHS]

You are incorrect. Autonomous breathing and heartbeat can't be sustained without some degree of brain function.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

The heart, in fact, has its own "pacemaker" and does beat on its own. Breathing is controlled by a reflex located in the brain-stem. So is swallowing. So is dilation of the pupils in response to light. Eye movements, tongue movements, and various other movements of the head that Schiavo supports said "proved" she was not brain-dead. None of this indicates the presence of any activity in the cerebrum, the part that of the brain that provides the functions that we think of as thought and personality and emotion and identity. The CT scan that was widely circulated during the controversy, and later the autopsy, proved conclusively how severely atrophied her cerebrum had become.

At any rate, the differences between the circumstances of Terri Schiavo and DeLay's father are similar enough that you'd think DeLay might have some empathy instead of running around the country calling Michael Schiavo a barbarian and a murderer.

-k

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

So where does the brainstem end and the brain begin? BD's assertion was that she had "no brain", not that she had lost that part of her brain associated with cognative function. Only the autopsy could conclusively prove to what degree she her brain had deteriorated and what her true capacity was. Too bad you can't autopsy while the patient is still alive.

Let me restate my original point, that DeLay allowing his father to die at or around the time of his injury is a great deal different that keeping your wife alive for eight years (and thereby creating a new status quo regarding the quality of her life) and only deciding to follow her wishes (such as you can recollect them) when the fact of her existence inconveniences you.

[Black Dog]

Let me restate my original point, that DeLay allowing his father to die at or around the time of his injury is a great deal different that keeping your wife alive for eight years (and thereby creating a new status quo regarding the quality of her life) and only deciding to follow her wishes (such as you can recollect them) when the fact of her existence inconveniences you.

All of which is, of course, speculation and character assasination. The real point here is that DeLay was fine with having his own father's wishes carried out, but worked furiously to stop Michael Schiavo from carrying out those of his wife.

[kimmy]

So where does the brainstem end and the brain begin? BD's assertion was that she had "no brain", not that she had lost that part of her brain associated with cognative function. Only the autopsy could conclusively prove to what degree she her brain had deteriorated and what her true capacity was. Too bad you can't autopsy while the patient is still alive.

Where does the brainstem stop and the brain begin? The anatomy of the brain is well understood. An enormous amount of research has been put into mapping out which portions of the brain perform which functions. It's not a shades of grey thing. A neurologist could go into a lab and anaesthetize areas of a person's brain with very predictable results on what effect it would have on the person's abilities.

The CT scan which was widely circulated during the controversy was clear evidence of the irreparable loss of capacity she had suffered. I'm sure you've probably seen the CT scan, because it was widely publicized and loudly trumpeted by "Save Terri!" types as "proof" that Terri could be easily saved. The CT scan showed the ventricles in Terri's cerebrum engorged to literally dozens times their normal size. In infants, this is a sign of hydroencephally, which is a condition that can be treated and allow the infant to recover and live normally. In adults, it's not. Hydroencephally is a condition in which the ventricles can not drain quickly enough. In infants, this causes the ventricles to swell due to build-up of cerebrospinal fluid. In infants this can happen because the skull is still soft and can expand to accomodate the extra volume. In adults, this doesn't happen. In adults, the skull is hard and the ventricles do not swell in this situation. In adults, the ventricles can only increase in size if there's a corresponding decrease in size of the surrounding brain tissue. The immense bloating of Terri Schiavo's cerebral ventricles was clear evidence of how much tissue she had lost in her cerebrum. Another thing the CT scan showed, which the "Save Terri!" crowd doesn't appear to have understand in the least, was the large amount of cerebrospinal fluid elsewhere in the brain, which isn't a sign of hydroencephally at all. It's clearly visible, filling what in a normal brain are the well-known grooves on the surface of the brain but in Terri's brain are enormous gaps. Particularly troublesome is the enormous gap between the left and right frontal lobes, showing complete atrophy of what in healthy people is the core of their consciousness. You can look at Terri's CT scan and look at a map of brain function and tick off piece by piece what capabilities she just didn't have anymore because that part of her brain was simply no longer there.

This is stuff that is well understood within the medical community. Except, apparently, by the gang of witch-doctor quack snake-oil salesmen who served as the Schindlers' medical consultants and conned them into believing that they could rehabilitate Terri. Ultimately, Dr. Hammesfahr and his associates at their privately owned quack-science clinic were the only winners in the Terri Schiavo fiasco, as they got a ton of publicity for themselves, and no doubt conned the Schindlers out of a fortune in fees.

Let me restate my original point, that DeLay allowing his father to die at or around the time of his injury is a great deal different that keeping your wife alive for eight years (and thereby creating a new status quo regarding the quality of her life) and only deciding to follow her wishes (such as you can recollect them) when the fact of her existence inconveniences you.

And I maintain that the differences between the two cases are hardly enough to justify DeLay's grandstanding against Michael Schiavo. I don't think DeLay was thinking of modest differences like the difference between artificial feeding vs artificial respiration or the length of the condition when he was publicly blasting him as a barbarian and essentially accusing him of murder.

-k

[kimmy]

The charge concerns the activities of Texans for a Republican Majority (TRMPAC), a political action committee created by Mr. DeLay and his aides to orchestrate the GOP's takeover of the Texas legislature in 2002. The issue is whether Mr. DeLay and his political aides illegally used the group to evade the state's ban on corporate contributions to candidates. The indictment alleges that TRMPAC took $155,000 in corporate contributions and then sent a check for $190,000 to the national Republican Party's "soft money" arm. The national committee then wrote $190,000 in checks from its noncorporate accounts to seven Texas candidates. Perhaps most damning, TRMPAC dictated the precise amount and recipients of those donations.

This was an obvious end run around the corporate contribution rule. The more difficult question is whether it was an illegal end run -- or, to be more precise, one so blatantly illegal that it amounts to a criminal felony rather than a civil violation. For Mr. DeLay to be convicted, prosecutors will have to show not only that he took part in the dodge but also that he knew it amounted to a violation of state law -- rather than the kind of clever money-trade that election lawyers engineer all the time.

WaPo

Pretty clearly these guys are total amateurs. They should hire Chuck Guite and Alfonso Gagliano as consultants to show them how pros do it.

-k

[Yodeler]

The real point here is that DeLay was fine with having his own father's wishes carried out, but worked furiously to stop Michael Schiavo from carrying out those of his wife.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I forget ... how much time had passed before Schiavo started trumpeting Terri's wishes?

Why did he wait so long? Hm? Hmm?? HMMM ???

[newbie]

The real point here is that DeLay was fine with having his own father's wishes carried out, but worked furiously to stop Michael Schiavo from carrying out those of his wife.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I forget ... how much time had passed before Schiavo started trumpeting Terri's wishes?

Why did he wait so long? Hm? Hmm?? HMMM ???

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I recall that he gave her enough time to make a decision. He could have "pulled the plug" immediately, but he, as I recall, gave her about 4 years to recover. When that wasn't apparent, he began proceeding against the families wishes. So Terry suffered needlessly for years while the courts fought it out. At any rate, it is really none of our business as to his decision. Under Florida law and supported by rulings of State and Federal courts, Michael Schiavo, Terri's husband, was her legal guardian. Schiavo says his wife would not have wanted to live in a persistent vegetative state and that he was fighting for her right to die. It was atrocious when the Republicans got involved, and went against 19 judges and 6 courts, as well as 7 neurologists.

[Yodeler]

I recall that he gave her enough time to make a decision. He could have "pulled the plug" immediately, but he  ....................

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Had you finished the above with ... "waited until the settlement came through" ... you'd be absolutely correct.

But ..... you didn't.

[Black Dog]

I recall that he gave her enough time to make a decision. He could have "pulled the plug" immediately, but he  ....................

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Had you finished the above with ... "waited until the settlement came through" ... you'd be absolutely correct.

But ..... you didn't.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

You mean the settlement that was completely eaten up by lawyer's fees and care for his wife? Or were you talking about the offers ranging from $1 million to $10 million Schiavo was reportedly offered to walk away, but turned down?

[Yodeler]

You mean the settlement that was completely eaten up by lawyer's fees and care for his wife?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Didn't he get to keep about one third of that money?

Wouldn't he be a multimillionaire today had it not taken eight years before the courts finaly caved in and let him kill her?

What a bastard!

[Black Dog]

Michael Schiavo was awarded $300,000 of the $1 million malpractice settlement. The remainder was put in escrow to pay for Terri's continuing medical care. Out of that $300,000, I'm sure there were the legal fees from that battle and the subsequent battles with the Schindlers. As I said, if it was about money, he could have taken any number of offers to walk away a very wealthy man. He didn't. So, unles syou have any actual evidence for supporting your allegations, your slurs are unfounded.

[Yodeler]

Or were you talking about the offers ranging from $1 million to $10 million Schiavo was reportedly offered to walk away, but turned down?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

You would be fooled by that, wouldn't you?

Michael wasn't the sharpest knife in the drawer either ... unfortunately he had the services of too many lawyers, and they managed to keep him out of major trouble.

[Montgomery Burns]

Kimmy:

The CT scan showed the ventricles in Terri's cerebrum engorged to literally dozens times their normal size. In infants, this is a sign of hydroencephally, which is a condition that can be treated and allow the infant to recover and live normally. In adults, it's not. Hydroencephally is a condition in which the ventricles can not drain quickly enough. In infants, this causes the ventricles to swell due to build-up of cerebrospinal fluid. In infants this can happen because the skull is still soft and can expand to accomodate the extra volume. In adults, this doesn't happen. In adults, the skull is hard and the ventricles do not swell in this situation. In adults, the ventricles can only increase in size if there's a corresponding decrease in size of the surrounding brain tissue. The immense bloating of Terri Schiavo's cerebral ventricles was clear evidence of how much tissue she had lost in her cerebrum. Another thing the CT scan showed, which the "Save Terri!" crowd doesn't appear to have understand in the least, was the large amount of cerebrospinal fluid elsewhere in the brain, which isn't a sign of hydroencephally at all.

My cat's name is Mittens.

[Argus]

Or were you talking about the offers ranging from $1 million to $10 million Schiavo was reportedly offered to walk away, but turned down?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

You would be fooled by that, wouldn't you?

Michael wasn't the sharpest knife in the drawer either ... unfortunately he had the services of too many lawyers, and they managed to keep him out of major trouble.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Let me see if I can understand your "point".

He was killing her for money, and the reason he turned down millions of dollars to let her live was that he wasn't too bright, and his lawyers kept him from doing something stupid. Because lawyers are known for not caring about money when it comes to morality. Is that basically it?

[Yodeler]

Or were you talking about the offers ranging from $1 million to $10 million Schiavo was reportedly offered to walk away, but turned down?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

You would be fooled by that, wouldn't you?

Michael wasn't the sharpest knife in the drawer either ... unfortunately he had the services of too many lawyers, and they managed to keep him out of major trouble.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Let me see if I can understand your "point".

He was killing her for money, and the reason he turned down millions of dollars to let her live was that he wasn't too bright, and his lawyers kept him from doing something stupid. Because lawyers are known for not caring about money when it comes to morality. Is that basically it?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Since both, Argus and Red Dog, insist that there WAS a genuine and perfectly enforcable promisory note for ten million dollars (among others) presented to Mr. Schiavo in exchange for his walking away from Terri's life ..... they must be right. After all, those two guys are just about never wrong when in synch.

But before I eat crow, I would like to appeal to all the other posters here who may have any information to the contrary to please step forward and post it.

Thanks!

I'm going fishing for a couple of days .... hoping to see Argus and Red Dog being hung out to dry when I get back.

Thanks in advance!

[crazymf]

On Tom Delay:

Where there's smoke, there's fire.

I live with the premise that all politicians are crooked people who use public resources to line their own pockets. The bottom line is how well they cover their butts. In the end, if they do more good than bad, what more can we expect?

With politicians, the end really does justify the means because the history books have a way of judging after the fact only when the full impact of their actions have been felt and analyzed.

That's also why GW can't be crucified right now.

[Black Dog]

Since both, Argus and Red Dog, insist that there WAS a genuine and perfectly enforcable promisory note for ten million dollars (among others) presented to Mr. Schiavo in exchange for his walking away from Terri's life ..... they must be right. After all, those two guys are just about never wrong when in synch.

But before I eat crow, I would like to appeal to all the other posters here who may have any information to the contrary to please step forward and post it.

Nice how you build in the caveats in advance ("a genuine and perfectly enforcable promisory note..."). Fact is, Schiavo was offered substansial sums to walk.

Man offers $1 million to save Terri

A California businessman has offered $1 million to the husband of a brain-damaged Florida woman if he will give up guardianship of her – a move that would save her from court-ordered starvation set to begin next Friday.

...Enter Robert Herring Sr., the founder of electronics firm HERCO Technology and founder of WEALTHTV. Herring has secured the services of celebrity lawyer Gloria Allred, who today held a press conference to announce the million-dollar offer.

"[Terri's] situation has deeply moved and distressed our client Mr. Herring who has been observing the case in the media, as millions of others have, for about a year," Allred told reporters.

"He recognizes that unless something is done immediately, Terri Schiavo is not likely to survive very long after March 18. Knowing that time is of the essence and realizing that he is fortunate enough to be able to help, he has decided to take action."

Continued Allred: "He contacted me and retained my law firm to convey the following offer to Terri's husband. If Mike Schiavo agrees to transfer the legal right to decide all of Terri's current and future medical decisions to Terri's parents, then Mr. Herring will pay Mr. Schiavo the amount of $1 million (subject to court approval of Terri's parents as her conservators or guardians)."

The money was deposited in Allred's law firm's client trust account. She says Schiavo has until 4 p.m. Monday to accept the offer.

[Black Dog]

Just to put this $190,000 deal into perspective and demonstrate the petty, vindictive nature of this partisan investigation, the study also reveals that Democrats transferred a total of approximately $11 million dollars in soft money from its national parties to fund Texas campaigns in 2002, compared to $5.2 million transferred by Republicans. But none of those national Democrat committees received money from corporations, of course. Certainly not from Enron.

Corporate donations aren't illegal in Texas, provided the money is used to cover overhead costs. The issue in this case is DeLay's PAC is allegged to have used the corporate money to pay for consultants, pollsters, phone banks and professional fundraisers trying to raise donations for Texas candidates' campaigns.

[Montgomery Burns]

I think this is going to turn out to be another liberal wet dream--the case appears to be very weak

Three days after a grand jury turned down a second indictment of House Majority Leader Tom DeLay, prosecutor Ronnie Earle went to a new grand jury citing new evidence and won indictments on charges of money laundering and conspiracy to launder money.....Mr. Earle, the district attorney for Travis County, Texas, tried but failed to get still another grand jury to indict Mr. DeLay, apparently on money-laundering charges.

"We have inquired carefully into the case... and in this said matter, we have failed to find a bill of indictment against him," the grand jurors said in their "no-bill" statement regarding Mr. DeLay and two political associates.  Also, the foreman of the first grand jury, which returned the campaign-finance conspiracy indictment, yesterday said that his vote to indict was based on TV commercials that he disliked and were run by a Texas business group in 2002 and not on any evidence presented to the grand jury.

"My decision was based upon those, not based upon what happened in the grand jury room," William Gibson told Austin radio station KLBJ. "They were stating their positions, and I could state my position by saying I don't like that."  Mr. DeLay's supporters e-mailed the transcript and an audio clip of the radio interview to journalists and others yesterday as evidence that something was wrong with the process.

[masterkush]

No need for the surmons from both sides .

Rehtoric accomplishes nothing

just look in the mirror

And ask your self, is there enough evedence

is there a mountain of evedence circumstantial or not

if any doubt is raised kick HIS rear out of power

you can have no shroud of doubt to remain credible

both the demos and the reps are puppets of the elite rich that have their money in off shore bank accounts

and dont pay taxes

why do you persist to vote for these 2 heads of the nazi rich ELITE I can not phathom

but it is a certainty, that if a course of action isnt taken from that direction.

there will be mayhem, in the streets across America !

The people will uprise and split America to cinders

the electorate votes split roughly 50/50

there will be a bastille day in America

[Shady]

Watch out everyone, troll alert!

[masterkush]

Watch out everyone, troll alert!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

all you can say is troll because you are of the

nintendo plug in youth you have nothing but that to lean on in times of troubles

you are the troll of america

locked in a fight with the 2 heads of the elite

you are american the destitute

[crazymf]

Whacko alert!!!!!!

[Shady]

Whacko alert!!!!!!

LOL