Mark Norman Case.

[Dougie93]

Basically Canada just needs to admit to itself and everybody else that it is in fact a protectorate of the United States and that a protectorate of the United States doesn't need its own military, and so stop wasting $20 billion a year on this boondoggle.

Just disband the CF and beef up the RCMP and Coast Guard as an armed constabulary, Giant Iceland.

Better to have a kick ass armed constabulary which is affordable by what Canadians are actually willing to spend,  than a useless joke of a Boutique military.

You're never going to spend anything close to what is needed for a real military, so you're just flushing $20 billion a year down a sinkhole.

The CF is on trajectory to collapse anyways, 20 years from now it's going to be an even more pathetic joke,  so just cut to the chase and save the money.

Most of the money just gets diverted to a bloated bureaucracy in Ottawa anyways, the money never gets to the front lines after the REMF's take their cut.

Edited May 13, 2019 by Dougie93

[Dougie93]

Even in a war, when Canadian boys were bleeding out into the dirt in Afghanistan, still Canada was too cheap and incompetent to get them the kit they needed.

So it's not just a boondoggle, you're killing your own kids for this ridiculous clown show.

LAV III is a death trap, the 113 is a death trap, the TAPV is a death trap,  even the ":newest" kit is obsolete.

Heck, even Leopard 2 is a death trap now, the Turks took those into Syria against the Kurds and got slaughtered by 40 year old TOW missiles.

Canada is so far behind the curve against contemporary threats, it's national criminal negligence to send troops into battle with Canadian kit.

The Taliban was nothing, they had AK's and RPG's, imagine if they had had anti tank missiles like the Houthis and Kurds, it would have been a disaster.

If you want to blow sunshine up your own ass about Canada being a real country, fine, but don't take it so far as to get kids killed for that lie.

Edited May 13, 2019 by Dougie93

[Dougie93]

It's like I recruited and trained guys who went on to Afghanistan and were killed, and I'm ashamed of that now.

I'm ashamed to be a Canadian, but I'm most ashamed that I sold those kids a lie, and then they died for it.

That's on me, I'll take that to my grave.

Like, don't join the Canadian Army, it's gone SJW now anyways, but most of all, it's not worth your legs, it's not worth your life, don't die for a lie.

Don't be cannon fodder for the clown show in Ottawa, it ain't worth it.

Edited May 13, 2019 by Dougie93

[WestCanMan]

2 hours ago, Army Guy said:

Come on WestCanMan , you saying the entire fleet was that way, with the beer in modified pop machines in each mess deck, although I was not navy, I was on a ship for a short time, while we practiced beach landings putting Recce teams ashore in RIBs, trust me after 4 days sail from Halifax to NFLD I was one happy grunt to get off that tug boat or what every you called it, and I did mange to swallow a few beer out of those machines, and I can remember more than a few navy guys partaking in way to many as well...At that time I think it was 25 cents for a beer after so many klicks off shore....because you did not have to pay any of the taxes on it.. 

Qu'Appelle was in 4 squadron, which was more of a training squadron for officers than an actual squadron of war-ready vessels. They were frigates mounted with 3"50 and/or 3"70 guns that were designed to shoot down planes of the late 40's and early 50's, plus torpedoes which were actually useful. Hence it ran a 1 in 3 watch system which was a lower state of readiness (only 1/3 of the ship's company is awake 24 hrs a day) than a 1 in 2 watch system (always 50% ready) that the more modern, useful ships were on. 

Normally on a 1 in 3 watch system you had a Saturday routine where the workday was 4 hrs, and if you were on watch in the afternoon then you got the morning off. But on our boat Saturday was a full work day. We go the Saturday routine on the Sunday, but if we worked the afternoon shift we didn't get the morning off. 

Our boat literally sucked (I know most Navy people never say boat, we called the Qu'Appelle "boat all the time), morale was low, the attrition rate was high, and as a result the Captain (Commanding Officer), Executive Officer ad the Chief (Base Chief Warrant Officer to you guys) were all removed of their command. It was the only base/ship in the whole history of all 3 branches of the service where that ever happened. 

Of all the people that I was close friends with on that ship that were LS (Cpl) and below, only 1 guy stayed in after his 3 years were up. For sure, 20 of us got out.  

Quote

And while your day sounds hard to the average civy, it would be a day in the park to most Infantry men , where no sleep is routine, sometimes more than 5 to7 days in a row, now I know this sounds like a dick measuring contest....it's not, this was normal routine while out in the field.... now after 7 days your body starts to shut down, you start hallucinating like a bad acid trip, I once had a long conversation with my ruck sack , who I thought was my wife at the time, about buying a new truck, my fire team partner thought it was funney at the time, but later  he tried to convince me we were about to get stampeded by cows one night, except we were in the high artic, no cows for thousands of miles ................. , after 7 days even ranger rick sandwichs were not enough  " 2 slices of buttered bread, with 3 or 4 packs of instant coffee in between them" ya it tastes as good as it sounds, but it kept you up, and if that did not work there was a pocket full of coffee beans i'd be so jacked up my hands would shake, my heart would be just pounding...Then the army came out with Caffeine gum, it was like legal crack, but you could never get enough of it...that was concentrated caffeine at it's finest, but once it wore off you felt like shit.... 

 I guess the army didn't get that copy of the QR&O,about 4 hours a night.... What we lost in the field we gained in Garrison, PT in the morning, back to work by 10 , coffee break to 10,30, then veh maint, until 11.30, lunch, back at 1, veh maint until 2 pm, more  PT until 3.30 then home...Fridays we normally got off at noon...

We never beat any navy guys up, can't say I was not jealous of 3 meals a day and a warm bed....

On MCWU we got 1-2 hrs a day of sleep, but we only did that for two weeks out of the entire time I was on that boat. Aside from that, most of the rest of the time was like I described above. 14-20 hrs/day. We were away from our home port about 190 days a year, but some of that time was spent in foreign ports. Usually about 2-3 out of every 12 days. So we did about 150 days a year at sea, and they were 14-20 hrs long. 

It might be better than the inf, but it still really sucked. 

[Dougie93]

19 minutes ago, WestCanMan said:

It might be better than the inf, but it still really sucked. 

It ain't better than the infantry, who wants to be stuck on a rust bucket sleeping in those tiny racks crammed into those messes?

Give me a bivvy bag in the great outdoors, I sleep like a baby in the fresh air.

Petawawa in particular is like an outdoor recreational paradise, it's beautiful, and  you have it all to yourself, bivouac anywhere you want.

Edited May 13, 2019 by Dougie93

[Dougie93]

Working at the battleschool was the most fun, because when you're the instructor you are large and in charge, plus you don't have to be tactical.

So you can set up the bivvy with hoops, insect net, mountain stove, field chairs, it's fuckin' government paid camping.

Any work that needs to be done?  That's what candidates are for.

Teaching at the battleschool was the cats ass.

[Dougie93]

The two best jobs in the military are Recce Patrolman and Infantry Instructor.

Reason being, you are in charge of your own little sub unit, away from the kindergarten string of Rifle Company,  and away from the chickenshit of the Head Shed.

Even as a junior NCO, you run your own det, your run your own section, you control things, you decide what to do, you make all the calls, you teach all the lectures.

The only caveat is that you have to maintain an extremely high standard at all times, you can't screw the pooch, but the RCR trains you for that.

[WestCanMan]

10 hours ago, Dougie93 said:

It ain't better than the infantry, who wants to be stuck on a rust bucket sleeping in those tiny racks crammed into those messes?

Give me a bivvy bag in the great outdoors, I sleep like a baby in the fresh air.

Lol. The tight quarters aren't the worst part. Seasickness is the worst part. I threw up a lot in the first year and I never gt over the queasiness and nausea.

Quote

Petawawa in particular is like an outdoor recreational paradise, it's beautiful, and  you have it all to yourself, bivouac anywhere you want.

I never though an infantryman would call a base paradise lol. You might be crazy.

Side note, Petaweewee is the worst name for a military base ever. WTF were they thinking?

[Goddess]

I was wondering how long before someone pointed this out:

 

https://torontosun.com/opinion/editorials/editorial-the-added-insult-to-norman-is-that-khadr-was-treated-better

 

 

[Dougie93]

33 minutes ago, WestCanMan said:

Lol. The tight quarters aren't the worst part. Seasickness is the worst part. I threw up a lot in the first year and I never gt over the queasiness and nausea.

I never though an infantryman would call a base paradise lol. You might be crazy.

Yeah, I can't abide constant vomiting, that just ruins the day.

Pet is like a wilderness park on the banks of the Ottawa river, except no tourists allowed.

One big government paid camp site, military only.

It is small town living, but there were girls there, I had a girlfriend, and she and her family took good care of me, so that made it nice too.

[Dougie93]

1 hour ago, Goddess said:

I was wondering how long before someone pointed this out:

 

https://torontosun.com/opinion/editorials/editorial-the-added-insult-to-norman-is-that-khadr-was-treated-better

 

 

Ottawa fears a mutiny more than they fear terrorists.  Terrorists can't bring the government down.

[Argus]

As Kelly McParland points out, the Norman affair shows us just how lacking in moral integrity, not to mention competence the bureaucracy is. 

The comedy routine started right off the bat. The RCMP seems to have decided the only people worth interviewing were those who had an interest in seeing Norman found guilty of the charge that he leaked information on an important ship-building contract. They didn’t question Norman himself — why on Earth would the police care about the accused’s side of the story? — or members of the Harper government who approved the ship. If a person was accused of shop-lifting they’d expect the police to at least take the time to ask for an explanation, but apparently a military officer who has devoted 35 years to his country’s defence doesn’t deserve the same courtesy.

Chief of the Defence Staff Gen. Jon Vance proved about as useful in ensuring fairness for his colleague as a busted rudder on a battleship. As Postmedia’s David Pugliese has reported, Norman was ousted before a charge had even been laid. Vance declared he had lost confidence in his deputy, without details or explanation. As Pugliese notes, “there would be no internal hearing, and no formal opportunity for Norman to present his side of the story. The decision was based on the unproven claims that underpinned the RCMP’s search warrant that had been executed on Norman’s home.”

 

https://nationalpost.com/opinion/kelly-mcparland-mark-norman-fiasco-brutally-lays-bare-ottawas-incompetence?video_autoplay=true

[Dougie93]

That's absolutely the culture of the Canadian Forces.

Anybody who even slightly defies the careerist Ruperts is immediately thrown under the bus and everybody else flees from them lest they be caught up in the witch burning.

It's not just Vance, they're all like that, anybody who is not a careerist Rupert just quits in disgust and so the Ruperts are all that is left.

It's rotten to the core.   This is why I no longer have any emotional connection to it;  Canadian Forces boondoggle delenda est.

Edited May 13, 2019 by Dougie93