Time to Ban AirBNB - It's creating a housing crisis

[jacee]

On 6/21/2019 at 12:11 PM, GostHacked said:

To me this is no longer about making money. AirBNB is directly contributing to the rising prices in rental markets. And in NYC they said it increased with a median of 380 dollars a month.   So while you need to make money, this is directly increasing the cost of living for those who need affordable housing. In the end it is not doing a city any good.

It's those abusing the system who are causing problems.

Shut down the abusers, not the system. 

* Municipalities need to stop developers and real estate agents from building/buying properties exclusively for Airbnb purposes: Require that short term rental properties be occupied by owners at least part of the time. 

* Landlords need to enforce lease terms that limit 'subletting'.

 

[GostHacked]

On 6/23/2019 at 1:58 PM, jacee said:

It's those abusing the system who are causing problems.

Shut down the abusers, not the system. 

* Municipalities need to stop developers and real estate agents from building/buying properties exclusively for Airbnb purposes: Require that short term rental properties be occupied by owners at least part of the time. 

* Landlords need to enforce lease terms that limit 'subletting'.

 

The system is rife with abuse. I am all for banning AirBnB until the regulations are in.

https://www.ctvnews.ca/video?playlistId=1.4509274

 

[eyeball]

1 hour ago, GostHacked said:

I am all for banning AirBnB until the regulations are in.

How and against what specifically, just AirBnB or the entire business model? A federal country wide ban? Would you make any attempt to discriminate between the good and the bad and if not what about the financial hardship a ban would cause the good operators?

This would be quite literally akin to throwing hundreds of people and a sizable portion of the entire population where I live out of work.  Many of these are already either legally permitted or in the process of becoming legal. It is just about impossible to cheat the system here because of host compliance software used by local governments and the fact that AirBnB itself identifies hosts to officials when submitting the hotel tax they're required to collect from hosts.

I would suggest the real problem in many places is lazy public officials that are cowed by developers and investors.   That's a different issue that I heartily support digging into much deeper. 

[GostHacked]

45 minutes ago, eyeball said:

How and against what specifically, just AirBnB or the entire business model? A federal country wide ban? Would you make any attempt to discriminate between the good and the bad and if not what about the financial hardship a ban would cause the good operators?

I would ban the business model until regulations are in. As it should be for any industry. I get that people want to make money, but we are seeing multiple issues with just this one type of business. Residents that have to put up with things like that party that lasted till 6 AM.   Shootings, robberies,  ect.  Many horror stories related to AirBnB.

 

Good operators would also push for regulation as it affects their way of making money. It would actually be in your best interest for you to push for that regulation. And not just sitting there, I mean getting into councilors face with it all. All this negativity affects your bottom line. What do you do about it?

45 minutes ago, eyeball said:

This would be quite literally akin to throwing hundreds of people and a sizable portion of the entire population where I live out of work. 

How?

45 minutes ago, eyeball said:

 

Many of these are already either legally permitted or in the process of becoming legal. It is just about impossible to cheat the system here because of host compliance software used by local governments and the fact that AirBnB itself identifies hosts to officials when submitting the hotel tax they're required to collect from hosts.

I would suggest the real problem in many places is lazy public officials that are cowed by developers and investors.   That's a different issue that I heartily support digging into much deeper. 

That I can agree with government is lazy as F to get this under control.  It will come, but that change will only come when it's past the crisis point. I rather it not get there.

If I find out any AirBnBs in my neighborhood I will engage the owners to get rid of it.  Or have a designated place in the city for STRs and keep them out of the way of regular residential areas.

 

[jacee]

On 7/16/2019 at 10:28 AM, GostHacked said:

I would ban the business model until regulations are in. As it should be for any industry. I get that people want to make money, but we are seeing multiple issues with just this one type of business. Residents that have to put up with things like that party that lasted till 6 AM.   Shootings, robberies,  ect.  Many horror stories related to AirBnB.

 

Good operators would also push for regulation as it affects their way of making money. It would actually be in your best interest for you to push for that regulation. And not just sitting there, I mean getting into councilors face with it all. All this negativity affects your bottom line. What do you do about it?

How?

That I can agree with government is lazy as F to get this under control.  It will come, but that change will only come when it's past the crisis point. I rather it not get there.

If I find out any AirBnBs in my neighborhood I will engage the owners to get rid of it.  Or have a designated place in the city for STRs and keep them out of the way of regular residential areas.

 

It isn't feasible to ban Airbnb. Problems are few in owner operated homes. Nobody parties till 6am in my house,, because I live there too. Lol 

It's the sharks that are a problem:  developers, realtors, property managers with many listings and little supervision. 

Municipalities have to regulate that, not Airbnb. 

If you don't know that your neighbours rent a room on Airbnb, it's obviously not bothering you, so why is it a problem? Lol 

[eyeball]

9 hours ago, jacee said:

It's the sharks that are a problem:  developers, realtors, property managers with many listings and little supervision. 

Municipalities have to regulate that, not Airbnb.

The sharks swim free because of lax regulation of municipal governments. I'm reminded of all the hoopla surrounding Uber, the impact to the value of taxi licences and municipal councillors that also own taxi licences.

You can bet there is collusion occurring between STR sharks and municipal governments making waves for everyone just like there is in the taxi business.

I'd say ban our governance models except the one governing me, its working just fine. I'm an STR operator and I've been a volunteer on our regional district's area planning commission for 30 years.

No one is getting away with much if anything where I live. You need a temporary use permit to operate an STR. Shutting us down to fix Ottawa's problem is just wrong and pointless.  Dong so here will do nothing to alleviate our or Ottawa's long term rental problem. For starters I couldn't get a temporary use permit to allow two residences even if I wanted to, I'd have to go underground and rent out long term illegally.  STR is the only legal option I have and because of the efforts of things like our Area planning commission locals have a way to take advantage of opportunities in our booming tourist industry.

Take that away and hundreds of us would effectively lose half our incomes.

Edited July 20, 2019 by eyeball

[GostHacked]

On 7/20/2019 at 1:25 AM, jacee said:

It isn't feasible to ban Airbnb. Problems are few in owner operated homes. Nobody parties till 6am in my house,, because I live there too. Lol 

I am not talking about owner operated homes. You have more control over that.

On 7/20/2019 at 1:25 AM, jacee said:

It's the sharks that are a problem:  developers, realtors, property managers with many listings and little supervision. 

Yes and until regulations are in, ban it.

On 7/20/2019 at 1:25 AM, jacee said:

Municipalities have to regulate that, not Airbnb. 

If you don't know that your neighbours rent a room on Airbnb, it's obviously not bothering you, so why is it a problem? Lol 

It is a problem even if I don't know it's there.  More and more negative reports on incidents in AirBnBs are weekly/daily now.

[eyeball]

3 hours ago, GostHacked said:

I am not talking about owner operated homes. You have more control over that.

Yes and until regulations are in, ban it.

Are you taking about some sort of anti-trust type of measure that protects owner operators by separating them out from the sharks?

Edited July 22, 2019 by eyeball

[GostHacked]

5 hours ago, eyeball said:

Are you taking about some sort of anti-trust type of measure that protects owner operators by separating them out from the sharks?

That might be a great place to start.  As I've stated It's not people like you that share the home you live in that I have the problem with. 

Limit number of units a person can own and share via AirBnB,  No corporation ownership. No hotels ownership. Set locations where it can exist. Zone for it.

 

[jacee]

2 hours ago, GostHacked said:

That might be a great place to start.  As I've stated It's not people like you that share the home you live in that I have the problem with. 

Limit number of units a person can own and share via AirBnB,  No corporation ownership. No hotels ownership. Set locations where it can exist. Zone for it.

 

That's what municipalities have to do.

Some already are.

Go talk to yours. 

Stop bugging us with "ban it" nonsense.

Edited July 23, 2019 by jacee

[GostHacked]

10 hours ago, jacee said:

That's what municipalities have to do.

Some already are.

Go talk to yours. 

Stop bugging us with "ban it" nonsense.

You keep replying, yet I am bugging YOU?  I will call for a ban and keep calling for it.

[jacee]

23 hours ago, GostHacked said:

You keep replying, yet I am bugging YOU?  I will call for a ban and keep calling for it.

Calling for banning Airbnb is ridiculous.

There will never be a global ban or a national ban. It's regulated at the municipal level. 

Go lobby your municipal Council. They're the only ones that can ban it in your area. But they won't because it's good for business. Unfortunately, they are also reluctant to regulate the real problem: developers, realtors & property managers taking up multiple rental properties and making Airbnb their full-time job, because those people have influence on Councils. 

Some cities are addressing these regulations:

Vancouver

https://vancouver.ca/doing-business/short-term-rentals.aspx

Toronto

https://www.toronto.ca/community-people/housing-shelter/rental-housing-standards/short-term-rentals/

 

 

[GostHacked]

1 hour ago, jacee said:

Calling for banning Airbnb is ridiculous.

There will never be a global ban or a national ban. It's regulated at the municipal level. 

Go lobby your municipal Council. They're the only ones that can ban it in your area. But they won't because it's good for business. Unfortunately, they are also reluctant to regulate the real problem: developers, realtors & property managers taking up multiple rental properties and making Airbnb their full-time job, because those people have influence on Councils. 

Some cities are addressing these regulations:

Vancouver

https://vancouver.ca/doing-business/short-term-rentals.aspx

Toronto

https://www.toronto.ca/community-people/housing-shelter/rental-housing-standards/short-term-rentals/

 

 

Yes because the model is terrible. I've already posted about the shortages of housing that AirBnB is contributing to. Just seems to back my notion up more.

[eyeball]

3 hours ago, GostHacked said:

Yes because the model is terrible. I've already posted about the shortages of housing that AirBnB is contributing to. Just seems to back my notion up more.

When happened to all the other things that caused housing shortages in the past? I must have missed how and when those problems were eliminated. It seems AirBnb is the only thing causing problems now.

[GostHacked]

4 hours ago, eyeball said:

When happened to all the other things that caused housing shortages in the past? I must have missed how and when those problems were eliminated. It seems AirBnb is the only thing causing problems now.

There are lots of things, but this in a short time seems to be having a bigger impact than people understand.

[eyeball]

1 hour ago, GostHacked said:

There are lots of things, but this in a short time seems to be having a bigger impact than people understand.

Probably mostly due to technology - the booking, hosting and payment software is huge compared to hanging out a shingle or a brochure and website in the more traditional bnb model.  The new model has also had an impact on resort development if the seeming lack of new bigger developments in the works where I live is anything to go by. OTOH I think the local hardware stores and trades are doing a booming business on home renovating.

I'm increasingly surprised at how few public notices there have been in the local paper of applicants being considered for temporary use permits.  I would have expected more by now.  The application process could undo you if it's difficult to meet the requirements for health, by-law or zoning compliance.   Between host compliance software and hotel tax remittances by AirBnb its only a matter of time before your STR is 'lit up'.

I'm quite certain there is a day of reckoning coming for both municipalities and property owners that have been slow or remiss to regulate.  In addition to the sharks there are other bubbles that will be popping soon enough. I doubt cracking down will do anything to help the housing shortage and it could even worsen it.  It stands to reason that former LTR's that don't make the STR compliance grade will find it that much harder to go back to being an LTR once they've been forced into the light.

[jacee]

On 7/24/2019 at 6:53 PM, GostHacked said:

There are lots of things, but this in a short time seems to be having a bigger impact than people understand.

Prove it. 

If some cities are finding that true, they are free to regulate Airbnb in their city.

Banning Airbnb worldwide is not going to happen. Your wild accusations just aren't evidence of sufficient problem. 

You have to deal with any problems it is causing at the local level. 

Edited July 27, 2019 by jacee

[GostHacked]

On 7/27/2019 at 2:04 AM, jacee said:

Prove it. 

If some cities are finding that true, they are free to regulate Airbnb in their city.

Banning Airbnb worldwide is not going to happen. Your wild accusations just aren't evidence of sufficient problem. 

You have to deal with any problems it is causing at the local level. 

I  care about banning it in Canada. I don't care what they do elswhere.  And the problems are plenty, many of which I already posted about.

[GostHacked]

But we can talk about the problems with it abroad.

https://www.bbc.com/news/technology-49149983

Quote

Council tenant Toby Harman, 37, created the fake identity "Lara" on Airbnb to rent out his studio apartment.

The flat, in Victoria, had been advertised since 2013 and received more than 300 reviews, Westminster City Council said.

Anti-fraud software had found Harman's first name in reviews and connected the listing to him.

Harman's bank statements showed he had been receiving payments from Airbnb for a number of years.

He had been taken to court and, after a failed appeal, evicted and ordered to pay £100,974 in unlawful profits, the Times reported.

This article is linked in that one.

https://www.bbc.com/news/business-47910700

Quote

How many properties are listed?

Nearly 80,000 rooms or homes in London are listed on Airbnb - more than any other UK city, according to figures from housing advocacy site Inside Airbnb analysed by the BBC.

Apparently that number has quadrupled since 2015. Still.. no problem?

[eyeball]

8 hours ago, GostHacked said:

I  care about banning it in Canada. I don't care what they do elswhere.  And the problems are plenty, many of which I already posted about.

How do you ban it without harming operators that are in compliance with the law?  Are taxpayers expected to compensate them?

As I wrote earlier I've lost two occupations in life now by governments reacting to people who wanted us 'banned' and didn't care.  I guess it's just that kind of world now.

[jacee]

14 hours ago, GostHacked said:

I  care about banning it in Canada. I don't care what they do elswhere.  And the problems are plenty, many of which I already posted about.

That won't ever happen. The best you could do is try to ban it in your own town. But that isn't likely either. It's none of your damn business if people rent part of their house, etc. 

You have not provided any evidence of any problems.

[GostHacked]

On 7/30/2019 at 1:53 AM, jacee said:

That won't ever happen. The best you could do is try to ban it in your own town. But that isn't likely either. It's none of your damn business if people rent part of their house, etc. 

You have not provided any evidence of any problems.

I've provided enough evidence against it in this thread.  But you keep going back to 'if people want to rent out part of their house' when the problem is a few people or corps having multiple properties that have been taken out of the long term market to make money in the short term market. And that has been proven to contribute to the shortage in available long term rental. And affordable long term rental housing.   As the days go on, I keep reading more about AirBnB that simply backs up my view on them.

[jacee]

On 7/31/2019 at 10:58 AM, GostHacked said:

I've provided enough evidence against it in this thread.  But you keep going back to 'if people want to rent out part of their house' when the problem is a few people or corps having multiple properties that have been taken out of the long term market to make money in the short term market. And that has been proven to contribute to the shortage in available long term rental. And affordable long term rental housing.   As the days go on, I keep reading more about AirBnB that simply backs up my view on them.

I agree with you that there are some problems with corporate abuse of Airbnb.

And some cities are already creating regulations to address that issue. 

If yours isn't, then there's your route to make the changes needed. 

[Moonlight Graham]

There's lots of reasons for the housing crisis in certain cities like Toronto.  People buying property for investment and then renting it out to cover the cost of taxes/mortgage etc is one of them.

[GostHacked]

https://www.bbc.com/news/av/world-europe-49285719/locals-kicked-out-of-their-homes-for-holiday-lets

Those stats are staggering.  And I bet this is happening all over where AirBNB operates.  Developers buying property and kicking residents out of their homes.

https://www.bbc.com/news/av/business-48042818/how-have-airbnb-and-short-lets-changed-edinburgh

Yikes

And then this info ..

https://www.bbc.com/news/av/uk-politics-42736067/tighter-rules-need-for-short-term-lets

Seems easier and cheaper for a city to ban AirBnB than to implement regulations. Needing to hire people in order to make sure they are adhering to laws and standards.