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Time to Ban AirBNB - It's creating a housing crisis


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When I was in Toronto recently for my job, I stayed one week in an AirBNB. There were so many things wrong with the situation (really bad unit) and then I started to see something else. A housing crisis. The building I was in was at least 30% AirBNB rental units. And talking to the security guards at front, they flat out told me they do not like the situation as it makes their job harder. Who is going in and out? Also a lot of tenants were not aware that this was the case. I then started to check in to see how bad the issue is. A lot of units in the downtown core are AirBNB short term rental units.

Overpriced small condo units for short term stays from travelers all while I see people sleeping in the streets. This is unethical.

Several issues with it all, creates a housing crisis, artificially inflates the housing price market.

Now I was able to see it first hand in Toronto, but this is plaguing every major Canadian city.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/fairbnb-report-short-term-rentals-entire-homes-lost-1.4971332

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The report says if the rules were to be enforced today, Airbnb would have to remove about 8,241 properties from its website because they are not in compliance with the regulations.

]https://globalnews.ca/news/5147620/ottawa-long-term-housing-short-term-rentals-coalition/

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Fairbnb said it’s not against short-term rentals altogether, but rather their commercialization. According to a report handed out at the press conference, more than 1,000 homes have been converted into what the coalition calls “ghost hotels” and close to 80 per cent of Airbnb’s estimated revenue in Ottawa is “generated by commercial operators, not ordinary hosts.”

“If you are a host and you have only one listing on a platform, and you rent it for less than 90 days a year, you will not be a problem host,” Fairbnb researcher Thorben Wieditz said.

“But if you have two to 77 entire homes on the platform… or if you rent your own home more than 90 days a year, that means that you’re likely not going to live in this home, and that means that these places will be removed permanently from the housing stock.”

I am not for regulation on AirBNB, I am for an outright ban on them being able to do business in Canada. But if regulation happens, that will be at least a move in the right direction. And will mean a good deal will leave the market as they will not want to put in the extra cost or effort to stay within regulations. Because they would have already gone above and beyond that already.

It only took me a week to understand all this back in December and it should be apparent for anyone else out there as well.

 

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The report says if the rules were to be enforced today, Airbnb would have to remove about 8,241 properties from its website because they are not in compliance with the regulations.

The AirBnB suite I rent out in my home is compliant with regulations and by-laws where I live.   

In any case getting my permit cost me almost $5000 (on top of $40k in renovations) to bring things into compliance and it's only a temporary one and subject to revoking at official whim - every other industry I've worked in was either downsized or shut down entirely due to political or economic expediency and the economic hangover still shows. I'm nearing retirement and I'd likely have to give up my home, move away and rent something myself - AirBnB is a true game-changer.  Resort operators facing competition are furiously lobbying local municipal councils to either do away with STR's or pile on as many taxes, fees and regulations as necessary to cripple them.  I guess if you can''t lobby yourself a subsidy the next best thing to lobby for is impediments to your competition. 

I support regulating short term rentals (STR's) but the approvals process has been up and running for about a year hereabouts and as near as I can tell I'm only the 2nd applicant they've processed.  I'm well aware of dozens of these things operating without permits but I also know most people are terrified of applying and being denied.  Many have been shut down already and sure enough I know people who have to leave because they can't afford to stay in homes they've lived in for years. 

 

5 hours ago, GostHacked said:

I am not for regulation on AirBNB, I am for an outright ban on them being able to do business in Canada.

Du you have a reasonably priced suite I can rent if it comes down to that?  Rental affordability has always been an issue where I live and STR operators are just the latest and unfortunately highly visibly scapegoat available.  Not all STR operators are sociopaths, they're just trying to survive in a sociopathic economy.  The bottom line is that I can make 2 - 3 times with my STR than I could if I rented long term.   I would argue it's not the bonafide Mom & Pop operators that are the problem however. We're just trying to survive too. 

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29 minutes ago, eyeball said:

Du you have a reasonably priced suite I can rent if it comes down to that?  Rental affordability has always been an issue where I live and STR operators are just the latest and unfortunately highly visibly scapegoat available.  Not all STR operators are sociopaths, they're just trying to survive in a sociopathic economy.  The bottom line is that I can make 2 - 3 times with my STR than I could if I rented long term.   I would argue it's not the bonafide Mom & Pop operators that are the problem however. We're just trying to survive too. 

The amount of these STRs are counter to making rent affordable. You are favoring short term rental for more money instead of providing a needy family a place to live.

What about those who cannot afford housing,  OR actually CAN afford housing, but because of STRs like AirBNB are contributing to a housing crisis?

Again I would have no problem with banning AirBNB from Ottawa all together. Not only is this killing the housing market, but also killing local hospitality revenue.

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A coalition of expediency if there ever was one.

A couple of the sillier arguments I've heard the coalition in my region use against AirBnB is that it encourages strangers to come into our communities - a tourist area that otherwise bends over backwards to encourage 25000 strangers to come here everyday.  That said I don't recognize 3/4 of the people complaining about strangers - many of these also nod up and down and shake their heads over sky-rocketing property values -  I recall when I was a nouveau local.

The other argument that makes me laugh is how STR's change the old core values of our communities. Now I may be old fashioned but I don't recall old-timers getting all warm and fuzzy about village staff using Internet-based By-law Compliance software to root out scofflaws that bent the odd rule in the past. As I recall the foundational ethos was mind your own fucking business.

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13 minutes ago, GostHacked said:

The amount of these STRs are counter to making rent affordable. You are favoring short term rental for more money instead of providing a needy family a place to live.

I'm trying to survive.

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What about those who cannot afford housing,  OR actually CAN afford housing, but because of STRs like AirBNB are contributing to a housing crisis?

 

Build public housing, build infrastructure, increase density, work with resort developers and investors and insist they also build housing for their staff.

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Again I would have no problem with banning AirBNB from Ottawa all together. Not only is this killing the housing market, but also killing local hospitality revenue.

So what you're suggesting is that governments interfere in the natural evolution of the market and technology and direct how and who can or can't compete in the free market.  These issues are not unlike those faced by the introduction of Uber or other innovations leading to a share-economy.

Ban people for being assholes that have over-commercialized things if you must but why throw Mom & Pop out into the street too?

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12 minutes ago, eyeball said:

I'm trying to survive.

I get it, and others are too, but since they cannot find a place to live, they have to resort to public funded things that are payed by your taxes. More of that means more taxes you are going to pay to house them.

12 minutes ago, eyeball said:

Build public housing, build infrastructure, increase density, work with resort developers and investors and insist they also build housing for their staff.

So what you're suggesting is that governments interfere in the natural evolution of the market and technology and direct how and who can or can't compete in the free market.  These issues are not unlike those faced by the introduction of Uber or other innovations leading to a share-economy.

I won't use Uber or Lyft either. I would have no problem with banning them as well.

12 minutes ago, eyeball said:

Ban people for being assholes that have over-commercialized things if you must but why throw Mom & Pop out into the street too?

I think you missed the notion where the majority of these AirBNB units are owned by either property management companies, or large investors that hold multiple units. This is not mom and pop by any means.  Sure there might be a handful of you that can fall into the 'mom and pop' category.  But if you are part of the AirBNB network, you are commercializing residential units which means zoning law issues and such. I would not have a problem with forcing AirBNB to adhere to the same standards hotels and the like have to abide by. But that still does not solve the affordable housing issue and the shortage of units available to people who need a place to live.

 

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1 hour ago, GostHacked said:

I get it, and others are too, but since they cannot find a place to live, they have to resort to public funded things that are payed by your taxes. More of that means more taxes you are going to pay to house them.

I get that. But like I said ban me and I'll join the ones stuck with looking for somewhere to live.

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I won't use Uber or Lyft either. I would have no problem with banning them as well.

In that case you have no problem with the holders of licences to an artificially limited market becoming fabulously wealthy while limiting the ability of ordinary un-entitled people to survive or get ahead.

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I think you missed the notion where the majority of these AirBNB units are owned by either property management companies, or large investors that hold multiple units.

 

You're talking about the majority of problem hosts not Mom and Pop.  What you're talking about are the more unscrupulous sociopaths our economy is so populated with.

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This is not mom and pop by any means.  Sure there might be a handful of you that can fall into the 'mom and pop' category.  But if you are part of the AirBNB network, you are commercializing residential units which means zoning law issues and such.

Regulate us then and stop including us in the demonization of the asshole capitalists.  I trust you realize I do get demonizing them.  I feel like the poor sap who has to explain why he drove instead of walked to the climate change rally.  Maybe its because I have arthritis and can't walk properly anymore.

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I would not have a problem with forcing AirBNB to adhere to the same standards hotels and the like have to abide by. But that still does not solve the affordable housing issue and the shortage of units available to people who need a place to live.

 

That's what Holiday Inn and other multi-million/billion dollar resort owners lobby village councilors to do - treat Mom and Pop just like them.  It's like Walmart lobbying public officials to level the playing field by treating independent corner stores like multi-national conglomerates.  I've seen this movie before in the fishing industry where thousands lost their occupations and BC's wealthiest billionaire wound up controlling some 40% of the quota.

You make it sound like the lack of affordable housing is some brand new problem that's just reared its head.  I'm pretty sure I can go back decades in time and find all sorts of examples of the same moral panic that's suddenly seized so many people.  Governments from one end of the planet to the other have been dithering around affordable housing forever - along with a more humane and affordable economy I might add.

Edited by eyeball
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16 hours ago, eyeball said:

No its NOT creating it, it's merely drawing another line in a long list of other underlying reasons why there's a crisis.

It actually is creating the crisis. Your solution was for the government to build more affordable housing.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/ottawa/shepherds-good-hope-ottawa-homelessness-1.4946896

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Advocates have called for new affordable housing stock to ease the demand, but 6,500 units would be needed to clear the wait list in Ottawa, according to Ray Sullivan, executive director of Centretown Citizens Ottawa Corporation, an affordable housing provider. 

According to the article below, there are about 3500 AirBNB units in the city which if freed up could solve half of the city's housing crisis easily.

https://obj.ca/article/nearly-80-cent-ottawa-airbnb-revenues-entire-home-rentals-cbre-report

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Mr. Ball said more and more lower-income tenants in those markets are being forced out of their homes by property owners who can earn significantly more money from turning the units into “ghost hotels.”

“It’s changing the ability for people to find affordable housing in the core,” he said. “That’s got some long-term implications.”

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“There is no sharing going on here,” he told OBJ. “This is a rental business, and now it’s a commercial rental business. Airbnb continually promotes publicly that they are home-sharing, whereby Aunt Mabel has an extra couch or room and is in the home and helps visitors better enjoy the city they’re visiting, when in fact … almost 80 per cent of their revenue comes from the commercial operators.

 

Now traditional Bread and Breakfast lodges are quite different in my view where there are actual hosts that make sure your stay is pleasant. 

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4 hours ago, GostHacked said:

Now traditional Bread and Breakfast lodges are quite different in my view where there are actual hosts that make sure your stay is pleasant. 

That would be us except we book thru AirBnB.  We're in a very rural setting and rent a self-contained suite. Our property and septic system is large enough to support three residences if density were relaxed.  I'd love to be part of the solution and open a new suite for a long term renter - we could even hire them to help with the STR.  Density rules at the moment preclude us from doing that legally however.  I'm hoping that will change because I might want to find someone who can manage the STR and provide senior care for my wife and I when we're to old to do so. Again, we're doing all this so we can stay in the home we built.  

You could shut AirBnB down but another online booking agent will simply pop-up, or maybe we could become a command economy that's dictated by big money and big lobbyists and force people into becoming landlords and dictate prices. 

In the meantime...

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Making that policy work to make housing more affordable will come down to the most basic of economic theories: supply and demand.

Ottawa's rental vacancy rate has been dropping since 2015. Housing experts in Ottawa seem to agree that stems from a lack of new rental units built years ago.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/ottawa/cbc-explains-inclusionary-zoning-affordable-housing-1.4833260

Like I said, regulate and tighten up the rules around zoning if you must.  Municipalities around here dictate that you can have a hot plate, mircowave or toaster oven in any any combination of two but not all three, under no circumstances can you have more than one range with oven in your home (I think local restaurants concerned about their corner of the market who lobbied council to do that).  They have an enforcement officer who comes and checks.  Last time I looked council got shook up pretty good in the last election so maybe going down this road isn't going down so well with voters.

In the meantime...more years will go by and no affordable housing will get built.

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On 4/10/2019 at 8:04 AM, GostHacked said:

you’re likely not going to live in this home,

I don't like purpose built or purchased Airbnb. It isn't fair. And it does affect other residents.

Seniors renting part to stay in their house? I think that's awesome. 

But developers and realtors using it as a business?  

Nah.

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I don’t think more regulations on or banning of AirBnB is the answer.  What gives hoteliers the right to monopolize the STR market using an old business model? The answer is increasing the supply of affordable housing.  The city could easily designate several acres of the Leslie St. spit and abandoned properties in the Port Lands as leasable property and install a few thousand boxcars, stacked in three storeys with their own septic systems and even wind/solar power.  The units could be rent to own, rent only, or buyable outright.  The infrastructure required would require minimal outlay from the city.  This could be a sustainability experiment as well, where best practices and research-based low income housing solutions like mini-homes are tested out.  Partnerships with universities and the private sector would help.  Boosting low income housing supply, if done substantially enough, will lower all home prices.  There are many possible creative solutions.  I don’t know why this is so difficult.  

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19 hours ago, Zeitgeist said:

I don’t think more regulations on or banning of AirBnB is the answer.  What gives hoteliers the right to monopolize the STR market using an old business model? The answer is increasing the supply of affordable housing.  The city could easily designate several acres of the Leslie St. spit and abandoned properties in the Port Lands as leasable property and install a few thousand boxcars, stacked in three storeys with their own septic systems and even wind/solar power.  The units could be rent to own, rent only, or buyable outright.  The infrastructure required would require minimal outlay from the city.  This could be a sustainability experiment as well, where best practices and research-based low income housing solutions like mini-homes are tested out.  Partnerships with universities and the private sector would help.  Boosting low income housing supply, if done substantially enough, will lower all home prices.  There are many possible creative solutions.  I don’t know why this is so difficult.  

Building codes, zoning and Official Community Plans.

Generally speaking anything goes in Canada, until someone complains.  That's when life becomes a Gordian Knot.

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17 minutes ago, GostHacked said:

You opposed to building codes and zoning plans?

Not at all. I'll probably benefit when authorities shut down illegal STR's. Speaking of which I suspect many of the illegal STR's will still be just as illegal if they switch to LTR's.

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On 4/15/2019 at 11:33 AM, eyeball said:

Not at all. I'll probably benefit when authorities shut down illegal STR's. Speaking of which I suspect many of the illegal STR's will still be just as illegal if they switch to LTR's.

Airbnb has to be regulated at the municipal level, so there's a wide variety of approaches. The real problems are occurring in cities, where developers are building whole condo complexes largely dedicated to STR's, limiting LTR availability. So some cities are now limiting STR's to (eg) 20% of units. That makes sense. 

Also, realtors are buying houses and using them for STR income. That also limits LTR availability and affects other residents and neighbourhoods. I'm not sure how you regulate that. 

Airbnb started as student couch-surfing and has morphed into largely high-end splashy executive condo suites that raised the bar for ratings and put Mom&Pop suites at risk. 

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7 hours ago, jacee said:

Airbnb has to be regulated at the municipal level, so there's a wide variety of approaches. The real problems are occurring in cities, where developers are building whole condo complexes largely dedicated to STR's, limiting LTR availability. So some cities are now limiting STR's to (eg) 20% of units. That makes sense. 

Also, realtors are buying houses and using them for STR income. That also limits LTR availability and affects other residents and neighbourhoods. I'm not sure how you regulate that. 

Airbnb started as student couch-surfing and has morphed into largely high-end splashy executive condo suites that raised the bar for ratings and put Mom&Pop suites at risk. 

There are certainly problems alright and whether its a matter of need or greed that compel people to become hosts these problems underscore other fundamental pathologies and unfairness that exist in the economy. There's real problems with homelessness in rural areas too, especially in a tourist area leading to people living in tents and vehicles and a shortage of reliable staff for local business.  Homelessness among the mentally ill in rural areas is probably an indication of what's likely to happen - many homeless will end up migrating to the cities.  It's interesting how many if not most of the solutions and suggestions lean towards official intervention if not outright social engineering to make things less unfair.  There's also a lot of talk about greater enforcement, more compliance and regulations, laws, cracking down and outlawing things - in other threads in this forum people are discussing rounding homeless people up and forcing them into government funded housing.  It all seems hopelessly angry and vindictive but maybe that's just the tone of the times - some of that pathology shining forth I guess.  

I suppose the housing market can be regulated, managed, or engineered to be fairer but not without doing the same to other things going on in the economy many of which have long been contributing to homelessness for decades.   

Boil it all down and as usual it comes to greed vs need - clearly a difficult thing to balance and something we often don't do a very good job of accomplishing.  The technology that makes STR hosting so simple and lucrative will also likely keep spreading to other areas of the economy as well.  I suspect there will be other challenges and opportunism to address in the future so we should probably put some effort into getting it right.

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9 hours ago, jacee said:

Airbnb has to be regulated at the municipal level, so there's a wide variety of approaches. The real problems are occurring in cities, where developers are building whole condo complexes largely dedicated to STR's, limiting LTR availability. So some cities are now limiting STR's to (eg) 20% of units. That makes sense. 

Could or should existing hotels and resorts be compelled to dedicate 20% of their units to LTR's?  Where will Mom and Pops that find themselves displaced if they're forced to stop operating and can no longer afford to keep their homes go to live?  As I said earlier there are no shortage of hotel and resort operators lobbying public officials to make life difficult for STR operators.  Is this a case of greed vs need or is it the other way around?

In addition to people approaching retirement where I live that are looking at STR's as a way to make the income they need to grow old here, just about every young person I know who's purchased a home hereabouts also operates a STR to meet their mortgage payments so they can grow old here too.

Anyone else feel like they live in an economy that resembles a Tumble Tower Stacking Wood Block Game or is it just me?

48 Pieces Timber Tower Topples Wood Block Stacking Game Original Edition

Edited by eyeball
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13 hours ago, eyeball said:

Could or should existing hotels and resorts be compelled to dedicate 20% of their units to LTR's?  Where will Mom and Pops that find themselves displaced if they're forced to stop operating and can no longer afford to keep their homes go to live?  As I said earlier there are no shortage of hotel and resort operators lobbying public officials to make life difficult for STR operators.  Is this a case of greed vs need or is it the other way around?

In addition to people approaching retirement where I live that are looking at STR's as a way to make the income they need to grow old here, just about every young person I know who's purchased a home hereabouts also operates a STR to meet their mortgage payments so they can grow old here too.

Anyone else feel like they live in an economy that resembles a Tumble Tower Stacking Wood Block Game or is it just me?

 

I think the difference is obvious: 

Cities need to limit developers from  purpose-built Airbnb condo complexes that are reducing LTR capacity. That's a huge swath of housing units that nobody ever lives in long term. Some cities already have limited them - Vancouver & Toronto, I think.

Some communities also have complaints about realtors with purpose-bought Airbnb houses in their neighbourhood, where nobody ever lives long term. 

It's the hotels and resorts vs. the developers and realtors, not us. People living in their home and renting part of it STR? Not a problem. Nobody's upset about that. Nobody's bothering us. No worries. ;)

Edited by jacee
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18 hours ago, eyeball said:

Could or should existing hotels and resorts be compelled to dedicate 20% of their units to LTR's?

Could they? Yes. Should they? I do not know.  But you cannot treat hotels and AirBNBs the same. And in my view you can't treat AirBNB and regular Bead and Breakfast's that are run by actual hosts.

18 hours ago, eyeball said:

Where will Mom and Pops that find themselves displaced if they're forced to stop operating and can no longer afford to keep their homes go to live?  As I said earlier there are no shortage of hotel and resort operators lobbying public officials to make life difficult for STR operators.  Is this a case of greed vs need or is it the other way around?

As stated it is not the mom and pop's that are ruining it. It is other entities that are controlling this market for the most part.

18 hours ago, eyeball said:

In addition to people approaching retirement where I live that are looking at STR's as a way to make the income they need to grow old here, just about every young person I know who's purchased a home hereabouts also operates a STR to meet their mortgage payments so they can grow old here too.

The more we do this the bigger the problem will become and in a few more years, housing, and affordable housing will be out of reach for a lot of people.

18 hours ago, eyeball said:

Anyone else feel like they live in an economy that resembles a Tumble Tower Stacking Wood Block Game or is it just me?

 

https://ottawa.ctvnews.ca/tenant-fights-eviction-and-wins-1.4382783

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Blanchard alleges the family that operates her building wants to turn the space into an Airbnb and rent it out on a short-term basis at a higher cost. 

Scott Lopes, the landlord’s son, admits four of the six units in the building are already available on Airbnb. 

Still, he maintains he wishes to occupy this particular unit after renovating it. 

“We’re absolutely not trying to turn in into an Airbnb,” Lopes said. 

“We are definitely trying to generate more income out of the existing rental properties we do have, but she just happens to live in the particular unit that I have been looking at moving into.” 

There was an article on CTV where a lady was fighting er hevition from her rental unit of 33 years. Because the son of the landlord wanted to move into that unit, and most likely then rent it out as AirBNB for 3-4x the price. Also the landlord is lying 100% because if they wanted to make more money on the unit, the son would not be the one moving in. He would move in, renovate and then put it up for AirBNB and if all the other units are AirBNB, then I would suggest rezoning as a hotel or some other commercial entity. Obviously they are not accommodating the rental market,  they are catering to travelers.

She won the fight and is staying in her unit.

Should landlords have the right to evict current tenants to accommodate STRs ? 100% No.

 

 

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https://montreal.ctvnews.ca/facing-a-rental-shortage-montrealer-takes-unusual-step-to-find-an-apartment-1.4363161

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“We're talking about international students, temporary workers from abroad and also refugees,” he said. “Net migration is normally around 45,000 people per year. In the last two years, it was around 65,000 and 75,000 people. Most of those people when they arrive in Montreal are going to rent an apartment.”

The demand for rental units is now so high, developers have taken note. In 2016, they built 4,500 rental units in the Montreal area; in 2017, they built 7,000; and last year, they built 10,000.

“More rental units are being built than condos for the last three years. The last time we saw that was in the 80s,” said Cortellino.

It’s still not enough to make a dent in the vacancy rate, though.

https://www.ctvnews.ca/canada/vancouver-pleased-with-short-term-rental-rules-but-warns-egregious-operators-1.4336553

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Vancouver has seen an "incredibly high" number of property owners getting business licences for short-term rentals but there remain a number of people who are refusing to follow the rules, says the city's chief licence inspector.

The city brought in rules last September that require people who list rentals on vacation websites such as Airbnb and VRBO to obtain a business licence. At the time, there were some 6,600 illegal listings, Kathryn Holm said Thursday.

Illegal operators not following by laws.

https://atlantic.ctvnews.ca/nova-scotia-to-regulate-short-term-accommodations-in-bid-to-grow-sector-1.4326567

And here is where the government is helping contribute to the housing crisis.

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6 hours ago, GostHacked said:

As stated it is not the mom and pop's that are ruining it.

It's good to know that's the case.  This realization should indicate that banning AirBnB or other hosting platforms like it is not the solution and suggests STR's have not created a new crisis, but are simply exacerbating an old one that's existed for awhile, quite a while in fact.  I admit this exacerbation is significant - hopefully its significant enough to light a fire under governments to get serious about building and helping to provide good decent housing for people. 

I'm probably just a little sensitive to having been caught up in the local vilification of STR's but I do recognize there are problems and want to be part of the solution and I think ensuring there is also a human face on the hosting side of this issue is part of that.  Dialing things back a bit would help and like I said earlier the tone of the times is such that there's clearly other deeper more fundamental issues exacerbating things as well.

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  • 2 weeks later...
On ‎4‎/‎11‎/‎2019 at 12:04 PM, eyeball said:

 

Like I said, regulate and tighten up the rules around zoning if you must.  

Totally agree with all Eyeball's comments on this topic. People like Eyeball are not causing a housing crisis they are a symptom of it and trying to survive. They should not be used as the scapegoat for the reality of what causes a housing crisis and that is high condensation of population in small living spaces and patterns of where work is situated.

City planning or actually deficiencies in city planning  from 100 to 50 years ago, not today along with economic conditions and population movement to inner cities have caused the current problems. Their developments are highly complex.

On thing our federal government is directly responsible for is immigration movement to inner cities creating a strain on exisiting housing. We have to find a way to encourage more Canadians and in particular new Canadians to move to places outside the large inner cities. Easier said than done.

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https://www.cbc.ca/news/business/biggest-airbnb-hosts-canada-corporations-1.5116103

It's not the mom and pop's ruining it for the rest of you.  As I said it is corps and property management companies that seem to hold the large majority of available AirBNB units.

There is a lot to take in with this article.  Sums up some of my thoughts well enough.

 

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