Should Canada Suspend Relations With China? -- Take Two

[Zeitgeist]

1 hour ago, Argus said:

And who is going to impose these minimum standards on independent countries? And by what means? Are you going to put sanctions on impoverished countries like Bangladesh if they don't unionize their workforce and pay higher wages?

No you have an international trade pact with rules that countries must observe if they want to sell into markets.  It only works if the wealthy developed nations join it unanimously.  Won’t happen under Trump. 

[bush_cheney2004]

1 hour ago, Zeitgeist said:

No you have an international trade pact with rules that countries must observe if they want to sell into markets.  It only works if the wealthy developed nations join it unanimously.  Won’t happen under Trump. 

 

Won't happen under Trudeau either...or anybody else.

[Zeitgeist]

59 minutes ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

 

Won't happen under Trudeau either...or anybody else.

So self destructive trade wars.  Yawn

[egghead]

23 hours ago, Zeitgeist said:

If we had minimum international standards for labour, many of these people would still have jobs, but better working conditions and wages, as well as more balanced trade that doesn’t offshore so much North American production. 

Most of the US and Canada companies (lululemon, Apple, GAP, NIKE .....) have that, and there are audit procdeures as well.

[egghead]

2 hours ago, Zeitgeist said:

No you have an international trade pact with rules that countries must observe if they want to sell into markets.  It only works if the wealthy developed nations join it unanimously.  Won’t happen under Trump. 

You are wrong. Trump wants to apply that to China, see what is happaning now 

[Zeitgeist]

3 hours ago, egghead said:

You are wrong. Trump wants to apply that to China, see what is happaning now 

Trump has denounced the WTO and the Paris Accord.  The US won’t recognize judgments of the international criminal court or landmine bans.  They want to be able to break rules when it suits “American interests”.  Canada has acted outside of UN resolutions too, but far less so.  Turning away from international rules and institutions should be highly exceptional.  The whole anti-Globalist movement is creating more problems because global problems such as fair trade and climate change require global solutions.  Once countries like the US opt out, others follow suit to remain competitive. 

Edited March 2, 2019 by Zeitgeist

[bush_cheney2004]

2 minutes ago, Zeitgeist said:

Trump has denounced the WTO and the Paris Accord.  The US won’t recognize judgments of the international criminal court or landmine bans.  They want to be able to break rules when it suits “American interests”.  Canada has acted outside of UN resolutions too, but far less so.  Turning away from international rules and institutions should be highly exceptional.  The whole anti-Globalist movement is creating more problems because global problems such as fair trade and climate change require global solutions.  Once countries like the US opt out, others follow suit to remain competitive. 

 

If sovereign nations choose to leave such agreements and international frameworks, it is their choice.

What makes the U.S. / Trump so special in this regard ?

[Zeitgeist]

12 minutes ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

 

If sovereign nations choose to leave such agreements and international frameworks, it is their choice.

What makes the U.S. / Trump so special in this regard ?

C’mon, the US has a massive economy and reach.  How can a small country like Canada remain competitive with additional business costs related to fighting climate change? Trump is about unbridled growth and America first.  Others are following that example, dangerous as it is.  Canada is swimming upstream trying to maintain progressive policies.  Remember, we’re all commie snowflake under the influence of the CBC and global banksters?  What BS. 

Edited March 2, 2019 by Zeitgeist

[bush_cheney2004]

Just now, Zeitgeist said:

C’mon, the US has a massive economy and reach.  How can a small country like Canada remain competitive with additional business costs related to fighting climate change.  Trump is about unbridled growth and America first.  Others are following that example, dangerous as it is.  Canada is swimming upstream trying to maintain progressive policies.  Remember, we’re all commie snowflake under the influence of the CBC and global banksters?  What BS. 

 

Canada has the 10th or 11th largest economy in the world....nothing small about it.

China or the United States do not owe Canada favourable conditions...they are competitors.

So compete...or live with the handicap of "progressive policies".

[egghead]

1 hour ago, Zeitgeist said:

Trump has denounced the WTO and the Paris Accord.  The US won’t recognize judgments of the international criminal court or landmine bans.  They want to be able to break rules when it suits “American interests”.  Canada has acted outside of UN resolutions too, but far less so.  Turning away from international rules and institutions should be highly exceptional.  The whole anti-Globalist movement is creating more problems because global problems such as fair trade and climate change require global solutions.  Once countries like the US opt out, others follow suit to remain competitive. 

what global solutions? did you read the news?

WTO was fine before the lefties let China in. China has never opened his market and has been stealing western technology for over 20 years. China never followes the international rules, but Obama did nothing. It is same story in Paris Accord as well. Now, Trump only demends a fair deal. 

Canada still with internatioal institutions is because JT needs China's hot money to boot Canada econ.

Edited March 2, 2019 by egghead

[Zeitgeist]

8 hours ago, egghead said:

what global solutions? did you read the news?

WTO was fine before the lefties let China in. China has never opened his market and has been stealing western technology for over 20 years. China never followes the international rules, but Obama did nothing. It is same story in Paris Accord as well. Now, Trump only demends a fair deal. 

Canada still with internatioal institutions is because JT needs China's hot money to boot Canada econ.

Much has been written about China’s IP theft, suppression of the Yuan, requirements for foreign companies doing business in China to partner with Chinese firms, influence from the Communist Party, etc.  The problem is that by scuttling the WTO rather than strengthening it, Trump has undermined trade fairness by creating different policies for different countries.  That’s an impossible game because as the US tightens the tariffs and rules on China, the work will shift elsewhere: Thailand, Vietnam, Africa...

When I say create minimum international standards, I don’t expect that a middle class income of say, $65000.00 a year by Canadian standards is the same in Sierra Leone, but we can look at purchasing power.  Maybe that’s $10000.00 in Sierra Leone, but that amount is easier for businesses to compete with than say, $1000 a year.  Without a floor on wages and a requirement for maximum work hours per week, health and safety standards, etc., our businesses will never compete.  Businesses will find the lowest cost production available.  Trump may be leveling the playing field a bit for America only with a few of her trading partners, but it doesn’t help other countries and it certainly hasn’t prevented offshoring US production to the next China and the one after that. 

Tighten up the international rules and actually enforce them, on labour, human rights, and the environment, or expect more problems.  Tie a company’s production within a country, at least to a small degree, to that company’s sales within the same country. 

Trump’s steel and aluminum tariffs have added a billion dollars to GM’s expenses, contributing to five plant closures.  Allowing DPA’s is some countries but not others, such as Canada, creates a competitive disadvantage.  Same goes for Canadians paying a carbon tax that other developed countries don’t have to pay.  That’s a competitive disadvantage for our businesses.  We all need to abide certain minimum standards and privileges, and there needs to be a penalty for opting out. 

With regard to “China’s hot money”, what money are you talking about?  We have a huge trade deficit with China. Our money pours into their economy.  I don’t know whether China will stop her unwarranted detention of our nationals, a clear retaliation for Canada following the extradition treaty with the US.  Maybe that extradition isn’t warranted.  I don’t know.  It’s before the court and I don’t have details.  I do know that China’s detention of these two Canadians, and application of the death penalty to another, is not okay and sends a message to the world that China is still a laggard on human rights. Buyer beware when dealing with China.  

Edited March 2, 2019 by Zeitgeist

[egghead]

1 hour ago, Zeitgeist said:

Much has been written about China’s IP theft, suppression of the Yuan, requirements for foreign companies doing business in China to partner with Chinese firms, influence from the Communist Party, etc.  The problem is that by scuttling the WTO rather than strengthening it, Trump has undermined trade fairness by creating different policies for different countries.  That’s an impossible game because as the US tightens the tariffs and rules on China, the work will shift elsewhere: Thailand, Vietnam, Africa...

When I say create minimum international standards, I don’t expect that a middle class income of say, $65000.00 a year by Canadian standards is the same in Sierra Leone, but we can look at purchasing power.  Maybe that’s $10000.00 in Sierra Leone, but that amount is easier for businesses to compete with than say, $1000 a year.  Without a floor on wages and a requirement for maximum work hours per week, health and safety standards, etc., our businesses will never compete.  Businesses will find the lowest cost production available.  Trump may be leveling the playing field a bit for America only with a few of her trading partners, but it doesn’t help other countries and it certainly hasn’t prevented offshoring US production to the next China and the one after that. 

Tighten up the international rules and actually enforce them, on labour, human rights, and the environment, or expect more problems.  Tie a company’s production within a country, at least to a small degree, to that company’s sales within the same country. 

Trump’s steel and aluminum tariffs have added a billion dollars to GM’s expenses, contributing to five plant closures.  Allowing DPA’s is some countries but not others, such as Canada, creates a competitive disadvantage.  Same goes for Canadians paying a carbon tax that other developed countries don’t have to pay.  That’s a competitive disadvantage for our businesses.  We all need to abide certain minimum standards and privileges, and there needs to be a penalty for opting out. 

With regard to “China’s hot money”, what money are you talking about?  We have a huge trade deficit with China. Our money pours into their economy.  I don’t know whether China will stop her unwarranted detention of our nationals, a clear retaliation for Canada following the extradition treaty with the US.  Maybe that extradition isn’t warranted.  I don’t know.  It’s before the court and I don’t have details.  I do know that China’s detention of these two Canadians, and application of the death penalty to another, is not okay and sends a message to the world that China is still a laggard on human rights. Buyer beware when dealing with China.  

I don't like trump, but he, somehow, did the right thing here.

How can you strengthen a declawed kitten? You cannot. Do you know what are the China model, China's 2025 and thousand scholars plan? Thruth trade fairness can only exists when people have the same morality. Now, WTO's "trade fairness" means something completely different in China. 

C'mon, trade is not the own way to pour money into a country. Vancouver and Toronto are two of the major China money laundering and parking hubs in the world.

 

haha, I thought of the same idea when I was young 

Quote

"When I say create minimum international standards, I don’t expect that a middle class income of say, $65000.00 a year by Canadian standards is the same in Sierra Leone, but we can look at purchasing power. Maybe that’s $10000.00 in Sierra Leone, but that amount is easier for businesses to compete with than say, $1000 a year. 

 

[Zeitgeist]

38 minutes ago, egghead said:

I don't like trump, but he, somehow, did the right thing here.

How can you strengthen a declawed kitten? You cannot. Do you know what are the China model, China's 2025 and thousand scholars plan? Thruth trade fairness can only exists when people have the same morality. Now, WTO's "trade fairness" means something completely different in China. 

C'mon, trade is not the own way to pour money into a country. Vancouver and Toronto are two of the major China money laundering and parking hubs in the world.

 

haha, I thought of the same idea when I was young 

 

Without international standards you’ll always be at the mercy of the Putins and Trumps of the world.  The only backup plan, one that I support but the likes of Trudeau never will, is to seriously militarize Canada and bring in a radically new immigration policy that creates a fast track category for immigrants willing to move to the far north so that our resources can be properly developed.  In would mean for those applicants that they would have to maintain a residence and employment within a geographic boundary for a minimum period before being granted full citizenship.  

The reason for military is greater independence and protection of Arctic assets, especially as we develop the North, including ports along a new northwest passage.  We also need to enhance and diversify trade, which our new free trade deals should help.  Finally, fight for better international rules on labour, environment and human rights, and against Mercantile trade policies. 

Edited March 2, 2019 by Zeitgeist

[bush_cheney2004]

3 hours ago, Zeitgeist said:

 ...Trump may be leveling the playing field a bit for America only with a few of her trading partners, but it doesn’t help other countries and it certainly hasn’t prevented offshoring US production to the next China and the one after that. 
 

 

Trump was not elected to help other countries.   He is not president of the "free world" or "post WW2 order", and offshoring accelerated decades before Trump came along.

 

Quote

Trump’s steel and aluminum tariffs have added a billion dollars to GM’s expenses, contributing to five plant closures.  Allowing DPA’s is some countries but not others, such as Canada, creates a competitive disadvantage.  Same goes for Canadians paying a carbon tax that other developed countries don’t have to pay.  That’s a competitive disadvantage for our businesses.  We all need to abide certain minimum standards and privileges, and there needs to be a penalty for opting out.

 

No...those GM plants were going to close regardless of Trump's tariffs, just as they have closed before.

Trump's tariffs have improved conditions for the steel and aluminum industry in the U.S., just as intended.   Here is an example from my own state:

 

Quote

Mines and logging companies are hiring, small businesses are expanding and Minnesota’s Iron Range is bouncing back from the mine and production facility closures that hit hard just a few years ago.

A new state budget and economic forecast reflected positive news for the Iron Range, which added jobs in recent years and has seen a strong boost in iron ore exports, used to create steel. State budget officials credited tariffs on imported steel with helping bolster the local economy.

http://www.startribune.com/iron-range-jobs-exports-up-after-trump-tariffs/506582012/

 

Trump's main target is a huge trade deficit with China, and Canada will just have to weather the storm or seek true trade love elsewhere.

 

[bush_cheney2004]

41 minutes ago, Zeitgeist said:

Without international standards you’ll always be at the mercy of the Putins and Trumps of the world. 

 

Don't fool yourself...Canada has plenty of interest and demonstrated actions around the world for keeping standards very low when it comes to industries like mining and oil services in other countries.   Want to be a leader ?    Start there....

[egghead]

10 hours ago, Zeitgeist said:

Without international standards you’ll always be at the mercy of the Putins and Trumps of the world.  The only backup plan, one that I support but the likes of Trudeau never will, is to seriously militarize Canada and bring in a radically new immigration policy that creates a fast track category for immigrants willing to move to the far north so that our resources can be properly developed.  In would mean for those applicants that they would have to maintain a residence and employment within a geographic boundary for a minimum period before being granted full citizenship.  

The reason for military is greater independence and protection of Arctic assets, especially as we develop the North, including ports along a new northwest passage.  We also need to enhance and diversify trade, which our new free trade deals should help.  Finally, fight for better international rules on labour, environment and human rights, and against Mercantile trade policies. 

Who can enforce that std? UN?? C'mon, this doesn't make sense 

[Zeitgeist]

1 hour ago, egghead said:

Who can enforce that std? UN?? C'mon, this doesn't make sense 

At some point a hot young revolutionary like AOC will blast Trump and his ilk out of politics.  A matter of time.  

[Simple Mind]

Not only should Canada suspend relations,  but should seize all the Triad Cartel Properties in Canada, such as Vancouver and Toronto.  No foreign Ownership of property.

[Argus]

On 3/3/2019 at 12:00 AM, Zeitgeist said:

At some point a hot young revolutionary like AOC will blast Trump and his ilk out of politics.  A matter of time.  

What's the point of replacing a brainless old idiot who's bigoted towards non-whites with a brainless young idiot who's bigoted towards whites?

Edited March 21, 2019 by Argus

[bush_cheney2004]

So with yet another canola exporter being banned by China for alleged product contamination, why has there not been an outcry by consumers to boycott Chinese goods for all of China's recent actions against Canada ?   

1)  Nobody else cares about Saskatchewan...too few seats ?

2)  Canadian Tire would have to empty its shelves ?

3)  It's just easier to boycott American ketchup ?

4)  All of the above ?

[Owly]

6 minutes ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

So with yet another canola exporter being banned by China for alleged product contamination, why has there not been an outcry by consumers to boycott Chinese goods for all of China's recent actions against Canada ?   

1)  Nobody else cares about Saskatchewan...too few seats ?

2)  Canadian Tire would have to empty its shelves ?

3)  It's just easier to boycott American ketchup ?

4)  All of the above ?

Or 5) the actual truth of the situation, we signed an extradition agreement with Y'all that now has got us caught up in your bullshit problems with China and Iran. 

[bush_cheney2004]

2 minutes ago, Owly said:

Or 5) the actual truth of the situation, we signed an extradition agreement with Y'all that now has got us caught up in your bullshit problems with China and Iran. 

 

So there is lots of support for boycotting American goods, but too much fear of China...no matter what they do ?

Okay...but seems rather inconsistent.

[Owly]

3 minutes ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

 

So there is lots of support for boycotting American goods, but too much fear of China...no matter what they do ?

Okay...but seems rather inconsistent.

Ah once we get the pipeline built the tanker traffic from Vancouver will be non stop. Sorry, you're just gonna have to pay more.

[bush_cheney2004]

16 minutes ago, Owly said:

Ah once we get the pipeline built the tanker traffic from Vancouver will be non stop. Sorry, you're just gonna have to pay more.

 

No big deal...will always pay less than you do....have for decades.

Calgary is Houston North.

[Owly]

1 minute ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

 

No big deal...will always pay less than you do....have for decades.

Calgary is Houston North.

Ah no, you'll have to match what China is willing to pay us or look elsewhere.