NHL General Thread

[Dougie93]

Just now, Yzermandius19 said:

Take it out on less important players than Marner, pick your battles better.

No, make an example of Marner, all the RFA;s are waiting for Marner to fleece the Leafs so they can use him as the comp, the owners have to hold the line here and now, scorched earth, lock Marner out, stop negotiating with him, say take it or leave it, or you're not playing, and next summer nothing will have changed and you will be no closer to UFA, suck it, Paul.

[Yzermandius19]

When I can come up with three better alternatives, who are notably superior to the course of action you advocate, I can't sign off on that half baked plan.

It only makes sense if he won't budge off Matthews money and term, under any other scenario, it's a complete overreaction that is detrimental to the team. F*cking over yourselves just to f*ck over Marner too is extremely counter-productive.

Edited July 20, 2019 by Yzermandius19

[Dougie93]

2 minutes ago, Yzermandius19 said:

Take it out on less important players than Marner, pick your battles better. Take it out on Tavares and trade him coming off a career year, would be a better idea. Take it out on Nylander when he gets on a hot streak, would be a better idea. The best idea is to take it out on the Kapanen, Johnsson, Kerfoot and Ceci's of the team.

Tavares has a full no move clause, the rest of those guys are cheap, it's Marner, Marner wanted to be last, Marner wanted to play hardball, show him what hardball is really about.

[Yzermandius19]

3 minutes ago, Dougie93 said:

Tavares has a full no move clause, the rest of those guys are cheap, it's Marner, Marner wanted to be last, Marner wanted to play hardball, show him what hardball is really about.

The rest of those guys are cheap for a reason, they are nowhere near as important as Marner, take it out on them, not the guy who matters more than all of them combined.

Take it out on the players who actually are a dime a dozen, not the guys worth paying big bucks to.

Edited July 20, 2019 by Yzermandius19

[Dougie93]

3 minutes ago, Yzermandius19 said:

The rest of those guys are cheap for a reason, they are nowhere near as important as Marner, take it out on them, not the guy who matters more than all of them combined.

Only the 1C, 1D and 1G are important, Marner is not that important, particualrly because he's being an invasive hockey parent problem child.

Plus like I say, all the RFA's are looking to Marner to see what happens, Marner is the perfect one to make an example of, to send the message to the rest, that message being; we will lock you out for more than a year, don't think that we won't, we'll lock you all out for two seasons back to back, ain't no thang, for us it's a tax write off.

Edited July 20, 2019 by Dougie93

[Yzermandius19]

2 minutes ago, Dougie93 said:

Only the 1C, 1D and 1G are important, Marner is not that important, particualrly because he's being an invasive hockey parent problem child.

Plus like I say, all the RFA's are looking to Marner to see what happens, Marner is the perfect one to make an example of, to send the message to the rest, that message being; we will lock you out for more than a year, don't think that we won't

Well go ahead f*ck with Marner for no good reason, it will help the Avs negotiations with Rantanen out, do the entire league a solid and hurt only yourselves, it's what these Leafs fans, media, management and ownership deserves anyway. Y'all reap what you sow.

Edited July 20, 2019 by Yzermandius19

[Dougie93]

1 minute ago, Yzermandius19 said:

Well go ahead f*ck with Marner for no good reason, it will help the Avs negotiations with Rantanen out, do the entire league a solid and hurt only yourselves, it's what these Leafs fans deserve anyway.

Doesn't hurt me, it's just something to watch on tv. 

[Yzermandius19]

5 minutes ago, Dougie93 said:

Doesn't hurt me, it's just something to watch on tv. 

Helps me. I'm just trying to warn the Leafs not to go back to being the same old Leafs, I can lead a horse to water, but I can't make it drink, nor do I want it to drink until Rantanen signs for cheaper than he otherwise would have. By all means, play hardball and help the Avs out, that pays for any premium the Avs paid in Kadri trade right there. Thanks Sheriff Shanny.

Edited July 20, 2019 by Yzermandius19

[Dougie93]

Just now, Yzermandius19 said:

Helps me. I'm just trying to warn the Leafs not to go back to being the same old Leafs, I can lead a horse to water, but I can't make it drink, nor do I want it to drink.

Marner wants to play hardball, let him get a taste of his own medicine, hardball for hardball, lock him out, force him to sign the offer sheet.

[Yzermandius19]

Just now, Dougie93 said:

Marner wants to play hardball, let him get a taste of his own medicine, hardball for hardball, lock him out, force him to sign the offer sheet.

Lock Him Out! Cheaper Rants FTW!

Thanks Loafs.

[Dougie93]

We know he has an offer sheet in hand,  7 x12.5 from Lamoriello, that's a good deal for the Leafs, make him sign it, that's the best deal the Leafs are gonna get

[Yzermandius19]

4 minutes ago, Dougie93 said:

We know he has an offer sheet in hand,  7 x12.5 from Lamoriello, that's a good deal for the Leafs, make him sign it, that's the best deal the Leafs are gonna get

Can't make him sign it, he'll just take a bridge on the cheap, rather than sign that. If the Loafs refuse to accept any deal other than that offer sheet, it's not Marner who is being unreasonable, that's for damn sure.

Edited July 20, 2019 by Yzermandius19

[Dougie93]

Just now, Yzermandius19 said:

Can't make him sign it, he'll just take a bridge. If you refuse to accept any deal other than that offer sheet, it's not Marner who is being unreasonable, that's for damn sure.

Who is he gonna get a bridge from?  Scorched earth, just lock him out, and say you can sign the offer sheet, or you can sit out the whole year and be right back where you started next summer.

Bear in mind that they literally came minutes away from this with Nylander, they almost missed the deadline because he only signed on the very last day.

Rumor is the Leafs are not going through all that again because they paid Nylander so much and got nothing for it, so if Marner misses camp, I think this might be war.

[Yzermandius19]

If the Leafs really want to play hardball, best start some rumors that you are heavily shopping Marner already. If he won't cave in the face of that, he ain't gonna cave much at all.

Edited July 20, 2019 by Yzermandius19

[Dougie93]

Just now, Yzermandius19 said:

If the Leafs really want to play hardball, best start some rumors that you are heavily shopping Marner already.

He's not going to believe that, he knows that they can't win a trade, they're better off taking the picks, they don't want money coming back in a Marner trade anyways.

[Yzermandius19]

7 minutes ago, Dougie93 said:

He's not going to believe that, he knows that they can't win a trade, they're better off taking the picks, they don't want money coming back in a Marner trade anyways.

So now you won't even sign a bridge deal? Sign the offer sheet or bust? Marner ain't playing hardball because someone offered him an offer sheet he refuses to sign. What makes you assume Marner is even playing hardball? Not signing immediately isn't hardball, nor is asking for more than you know you're going to get, it's completely standard, there is no indication he isn't willing to make any concessions here, you are just assuming that because the media wants to pretend that's true to keep the rubes interested during the summer.

I see nothing from Marner's camp that makes me believe they are trying to f*ck with the Leafs here, it's all in your head, the media clickbait is not to be believed. Both sides are bluffing, and if they aren't, nothing they have done so far indicates they aren't bluffing, so simmer down.

Edited July 20, 2019 by Yzermandius19

[Dougie93]

Just now, Yzermandius19 said:

So now you won't even sign a bridge deal? Sign the offer sheet or bust? Marner ain't playing hardball because someone offered him an offer sheet he refuses to sign. What makes you assume Marner is even playing hardball? Not signing immediately isn't hardball, it's completely standard.

The Lamoriello deal is perfect, Two Phones has essentially pulled a Bergevin, the offer sheet is the best deal for the Leafs, leave Marner no options but to sign it, so the Leafs can then match.

 

[Yzermandius19]

7 minutes ago, Dougie93 said:

The Lamoriello deal is perfect, Two Phones has essentially pulled a Bergevin, the offer sheet is the best deal for the Leafs, leave Marner no options but to sign it, so the Leafs can then match.

 

It's leaves Marner the option not to sign it, because there is no reason to f*ck him over just because hasn't signed yet and has asked for more than he's going to get, it's standard negotiations that you and the media are calling hardball, because you have nothing else better to talk about. The whole situation is no big deal, and the media is trying to manufacture it into a big deal by playing the rubes for fools so more people are interested in their out of control speculation and doomsaying. There is no reason to screw with Marner based on his actions to this point, it's not fighting fire with fire, the media just wants a story to cover during times when they desperately need something to talk about.

Obvious drama queens are obvious. Making mountains out of mole hills, sad.

Edited July 20, 2019 by Yzermandius19

[Dougie93]

2 minutes ago, Yzermandius19 said:

It's leaves Marner the option not to sign it, because there is no reason to f*ck him over just because hasn't signed yet and has asked for more than he's going to get, it's standard negotiations that you and the media are calling hardball, because you have nothing else better to talk about. The whole situation is no big deal, and the media is try to manufacture it into a big deal by playing the rubes for fools so more people are interested in their out of control speculation and doomsaying.

if they want to keep Muzzin and Barrie, who they gave up a lot for, they need to squeeze Marner mercilessly.

Again, he started the hardball when he refused to negotiate in season, then took it past July 1st, then courted offer sheets, next he will miss camp, this is what Ferris does, this is all that Ferris does, when you hire Ferris you are sending the message that you are going to play hardball, so the Leafs should use all the leverage at their disposal, that wouldn't be anything more than giving Mitch Lindros a taste of his own medicine.

[Yzermandius19]

3 minutes ago, Dougie93 said:

if they want to keep Muzzin and Barrie, who they gave up a lot for, they need to squeeze Marner mercilessly.

Again, he started the hardball when he refused to negotiate in season, then took it past July 1st, then courted offer sheets, next he will miss camp, this is what Ferris does, this is all that Ferris does, when you hire Ferris you are sending the message that you are going to play hardball, so the Leafs should use all the leverage at their disposal, that wouldn't be anything more than giving Mitch Lindros a taste of his own medicine.

Not negotiating in season is common, and lots of players who don't do that aren't playing hardball. Hiring Ferris sends the impression you are going to play hardball, but that reputation is also likely to make the team you are negotiating with jump at concessions you were always willing to make and the team didn't expect to get.

Hardball? What Hardball? All in your head, paranoid drama queen. If he's playing hardball, thus far there is no indication that is the case, talk to me when it's more than a convenient framing by the media to get people interested in a non-story.

Edited July 20, 2019 by Yzermandius19

[Yzermandius19]

Byram signs an ELC, looks like he's going to have a chance to make the Avs out of training camp, and is going to get at least a nine game tryout in the NHL while Cole recovers from double hip surgery.

[Rue]

4 first round draft picks for Marner is what the Islanders are looking at for any contract I believe over 10.5 mil and the rumour is he wants 12 mil right so let Lou talk.

My problem with Marner is he has not played long enough to justify 12 million let alone 10 million per year  but is  using Mathews and Nylander as his reference points saying he is better than those 2 and Dubas had to know when he signed Nylander Mariner would do that.

The Leafs are playing hard ball not just on Marner but for Mathews, and everyone else on the roster except Taveres and  Nylander at this point. This is the tip of the iceberg and all teams face it. You can only pay so much out so if you concentrate it on a few you have a lot who do without. Its that simple. It means most teams can't carry more than 2 superstars and end up like Chicago or Detroit. Building by the minor leagues Is another myth. Few teams today can do that. The odds are against you developing sufficient players these days with so many teams drafting and genuine talents scattered. The way today to win a cup is to have a couple of minor leaguers, a couple of superstars and a bunch of overpriced free agents. Its not pretty anymore but its caused the parity Bettman wants to be able to assure the Cup stays in as many different American cities as is possible to sell the game.

Hockey will never in the US generate the revenue of football , basket-ball or base-ball and so it will always be 4th fiddle and even soccer in some cities like Seattle is as popular as hockey.

So get used to it. Something will give. If Marner sits out the year like Nylander did it spreads poison and distraction and they won't do that again. My bet is Dubas will have no choice but to pull a trade and get better than 4 draft choices.  There are a lot of teams that could send back 2 first rounders, second rounders and a promising centre and dman, hell if I was Winnipeg and Toronto and I am anticipating problems with you know who signing in Winnipeg is there a possible fit there? All kidding aside, if I wanted to win a cup this year and I was Dubas why not send Marner to Montreal for Price, Domi and one of their promising centres. Its not as dumb as it sounds for either team. Then again There are a lot of  teams who have fits with Toronto for a mix of here and now stars and prospects for him.

He's not untouchable. Me personally I think he needs another year to scout him properly in terms of projected role. The thing is he is a right winger who could play centre but he is no Tavares. He will never score a lot. He is more of a Dave Keon-Doug Gilmour kind of centre which aint bad but he is not a Gretzky, Lemieux, Tavares, McDavid, Crosby kind of centre.

 

[Dougie93]

28 minutes ago, Rue said:

4 first round draft picks for Marner is what the Islanders are looking at for any contract I believe over 10.5 mil and the rumour is he wants 12 mil right so let Lou talk.

The Islanders already presented him with an offer sheet for 7 x 12.5,  Marner turned it down.

It's not the amount which is holding things up, it's the term, Marner wants a 5 year contract.

Marner wants exactly what Matthews got, 5 x 11.6, that way Marner will be UFA in five years and he can get another huge contract then.

If a team offer sheets him for 5 x 11.6, the Leafs will match, but other teams haven't been offering that, other teams are offering 7 years.

The Leafs have already offered Marner long term, he has refused it.

Again, he wants exactly what Matthews got.

Edited July 22, 2019 by Dougie93

[Yzermandius19]

He'll take less than Matthews money to get Matthews term, push come to shove. He's just starting negotiations from Matthews so that when he bargains down from there, he ends up getting more than had he started from a more reasonable position.

Edited July 22, 2019 by Yzermandius19

[QuebecOverCanada]

I still don't get how Nylander wasn't traded yet. I don't believe he'll live up to his contract and may be very hard to trade later on in his contract, rather than this summer. Especially when Marner needs to be signed. Nylander is nowhere near Tavares, Marner or Matthews in terms of... everything actually. He's a liability .