bush_cheney2004 Posted January 13, 2019 Report Share Posted January 13, 2019 5 minutes ago, Dougie93 said: Like I say, unintended consequences, NATO didn't push anywhere, a flight to quality drew freedom loving anti-Communists towards the Empire of Liberty, and I welcome them with open arms. Then they will have to leave Ukraine...many already have. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DogOnPorch Posted January 13, 2019 Author Report Share Posted January 13, 2019 Just now, Dougie93 said: Takes too long to get to the Great Plains, if you're going at the Americans, you have to at least cripple that countervalue force, and to do so, you need to pop up out of the ice and launch on a depressed trajectory at the Miniteman III's, from Canadian waters. Not as a first strike weapon...it's the new years day hangover. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dougie93 Posted January 13, 2019 Report Share Posted January 13, 2019 (edited) 4 minutes ago, bush_cheney2004 said: Then they will have to leave Ukraine...many already have. I can't control the Poles; Ukraine tries to retake the Donbass, Russia launches a counter offensive, Poland enters Ukraine to defend them at the Dnieper, Russia puts the 1st Guards Army in Belarus on the Suwalki Gap, NATO mobilizes, Russia mobilizes, etc, etc Edited January 13, 2019 by Dougie93 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DogOnPorch Posted January 13, 2019 Author Report Share Posted January 13, 2019 I don't give the Russians a lot of credit. Their tanks are hacks...planes are junk...but the one area they do excel at is long range rocketry. If they could only put all that talent back into space exploration. They put probes on Venus ffs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DogOnPorch Posted January 13, 2019 Author Report Share Posted January 13, 2019 2 minutes ago, Dougie93 said: I can't control the Poles; Ukraine tries to retake the Donbass, Russia launches a counter offensive, Poland enters Ukraine to defend them at the Dnieper, Russia puts the 1st Guards Army in Belarus on the Suwalki Gap, NATO mobilizes, Russia mobilizes, etc, etc They both tried that in the 1920s and thought they'd better not try that again. Poland is a plucky one in a fair fight. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bush_cheney2004 Posted January 13, 2019 Report Share Posted January 13, 2019 2 minutes ago, Dougie93 said: I can't control the Poles; Ukraine tries to retake the Donbass, Russia launches a counter offensive, Poland enters Ukraine to defend them at the Dnieper, Russia puts the 1st Guards Army in Belarus on the Suwalki Gap, NATO mobilizes, Russia mobilizes, etc, etc Not going to happen....hell, Ukraine use to be the bad guys too. That's why they had Soviet nuclear weapons. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DogOnPorch Posted January 13, 2019 Author Report Share Posted January 13, 2019 Just now, bush_cheney2004 said: Not going to happen....hell, Ukraine use to be the bad guys too. That's why they had Soviet nuclear weapons. Pretty eager to join the Nazis when the opportunity presented itself, too. Leave them to their regional fun. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dougie93 Posted January 13, 2019 Report Share Posted January 13, 2019 7 minutes ago, DogOnPorch said: Not as a first strike weapon...it's the new years day hangover. Bah, whose afraid of Mr. Ivan? Ronald Reagan had it right in 1981, when the Carrier Battle Group suddenly went radio silent, crossed the G-I-UK Gap, and popped up again in the Barents at Murmansk and then started buzzing them with F-14 and A-6's. Message; we can take you any time, Ivan, just in case you were thinking otherwise. That's the only way to deal with Mr. Ivan, because Mr. Ivan is a bully, but he ain't at all that tough when you stand up to him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bush_cheney2004 Posted January 13, 2019 Report Share Posted January 13, 2019 2 minutes ago, DogOnPorch said: Pretty eager to join the Nazis when the opportunity presented itself, too. Leave them to their regional fun. Agreed...they are willing victims of geography and circumstance. NATO is not going to total war for Ukraine....no way...no how. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DogOnPorch Posted January 13, 2019 Author Report Share Posted January 13, 2019 2 minutes ago, Dougie93 said: Bah, whose afraid of Mr. Ivan? Ronald Reagan had it right in 1981, when the Carrier Battle Group suddenly went radio silent, crossed the G-I-UK Gap, and popped up again in the Barents at Murmansk and then started buzzing them with F-14 and A-6's. Message; we can take you any time, Ivan, just in case you were thinking otherwise. That's the only way to deal with Mr. Ivan, because Mr. Ivan is a bully, but he ain't at all that tough when you stand up to him. But Russia has hundreds if not thousands of these types of weapons hidden in the vast hinterland. They come out after the mushrooms start growing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bush_cheney2004 Posted January 13, 2019 Report Share Posted January 13, 2019 1 minute ago, Dougie93 said: Bah, whose afraid of Mr. Ivan? Ronald Reagan had it right in 1981, when the Carrier Battle Group suddenly went radio silent, crossed the G-I-UK Gap, and popped up again in the Barents at Murmansk and then started buzzing them with F-14 and A-6's. No surprise at all....Rooskies had force locators in the sky by then, same as the Americans. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dougie93 Posted January 13, 2019 Report Share Posted January 13, 2019 2 minutes ago, bush_cheney2004 said: No surprise at all....Rooskies had force locators in the sky by then, same as the Americans. AFAIK, Ivan sent the satellites out, and every plane they had available as soon as the battle group went dark, and couldn't find them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dougie93 Posted January 13, 2019 Report Share Posted January 13, 2019 3 minutes ago, DogOnPorch said: But Russia has hundreds if not thousands of these types of weapons hidden in the vast hinterland. They come out after the mushrooms start growing. What you have and what you are prepared to launch in the face of anything less than an all out countervalue strike over the pole, are not the same thing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dougie93 Posted January 13, 2019 Report Share Posted January 13, 2019 11 minutes ago, bush_cheney2004 said: Not going to happen....hell, Ukraine use to be the bad guys too. That's why they had Soviet nuclear weapons. Donald J. Trump is the POTUS Anything can happen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DogOnPorch Posted January 13, 2019 Author Report Share Posted January 13, 2019 3 minutes ago, bush_cheney2004 said: No surprise at all....Rooskies had force locators in the sky by then, same as the Americans. It's Canada that can be caught unaware. What radar? It's long gone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DogOnPorch Posted January 13, 2019 Author Report Share Posted January 13, 2019 1 minute ago, Dougie93 said: Donald J. Trump is the POTUS Anything can happen. Trump is a lot of things. Hawk ain't one of them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dougie93 Posted January 13, 2019 Report Share Posted January 13, 2019 Just now, DogOnPorch said: Trump is a lot of things. Hawk ain't one of them. As if he is really paying attention to the sh*t he is doing, he'sjust trying to win another election by populist axe grinding, he doesn't have a unified strategy to avoid a nuclear confrontation and he is continuing to deploy things in Europe which is making Mr.Ivan do crazy things in response already, like using CBRN on British soil apparently, which is crazy crazy by Cold War standards. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bush_cheney2004 Posted January 13, 2019 Report Share Posted January 13, 2019 4 minutes ago, Dougie93 said: AFAIK, Ivan sent the satellites out, and every plane they had available as soon as the battle group went dark, and couldn't find them. If the Rooskies could find our periscope mast sticking 1 meter above the surface in the North Sea, they sure as hell could find a Nimitz or Forrestal class super carrier. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DogOnPorch Posted January 13, 2019 Author Report Share Posted January 13, 2019 4 minutes ago, Dougie93 said: What you have and what you are prepared to launch in the face of anything less than an all out countervalue strike over the pole, are not the same thing. Russia no longer has anything resembling first strike capability. Just a massive retaliation in kind. A-10s aren't going to swoop outta nowhere and zap those launchers like in Iraq. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bush_cheney2004 Posted January 13, 2019 Report Share Posted January 13, 2019 3 minutes ago, DogOnPorch said: Trump is a lot of things. Hawk ain't one of them. Yes...he campaigned on exactly that. Still hasn't started a stupid shooting war after two years. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DogOnPorch Posted January 13, 2019 Author Report Share Posted January 13, 2019 1 minute ago, bush_cheney2004 said: Yes...he campaigned on exactly that. Still hasn't started a stupid shooting war after two years. Perhaps even ended a couple...we'll see. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dougie93 Posted January 13, 2019 Report Share Posted January 13, 2019 Just now, DogOnPorch said: Russia no longer has anything resembling first strike capability. Just a massive retaliation in kind. A-10s aren't going to swoop outta nowhere and zap those launchers like in Iraq. If you have SSBN's you have an inherent counterforce capability. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DogOnPorch Posted January 13, 2019 Author Report Share Posted January 13, 2019 15 minutes ago, bush_cheney2004 said: Agreed...they are willing victims of geography and circumstance. NATO is not going to total war for Ukraine....no way...no how. Buggers did Babi Yar...not to be trusted when you're down. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DogOnPorch Posted January 13, 2019 Author Report Share Posted January 13, 2019 Just now, Dougie93 said: If you have SSBN's you have an inherent counterforce capability. As I mentioned...the Bulava is a bit of a joke. It's still only relatively safe if the sub surfaces to launch...and then what's the point? Mr Spy Sat see's you and informs the boss...bye bye Russian sub. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dougie93 Posted January 13, 2019 Report Share Posted January 13, 2019 2 minutes ago, DogOnPorch said: As I mentioned...the Bulava is a bit of a joke. It's still only relatively safe if the sub surfaces to launch...and then what's the point? Mr Spy Sat see's you and informs the boss...bye bye Russian sub. It's only bye-bye if there is an SSN up in the saddle, because if your not right on top of him, what are you shooting him with? Sharks with lasers on their noses? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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