Zeitgeist Posted January 10, 2019 Report Posted January 10, 2019 3 minutes ago, Dougie93 said: You're welcome to your opinion of course, and as I've said, we Pequistes are simply lying in wait husbanding our resources for when the next referendum comes, but we don't need you, so I'm not trying to convince you of anything, I'm not trying to recruit to be Pequistes, that's the beauty of it, Confederation is going to bring itself down, by giving we Pequistes the constitutional right to leave Confederation, and by being so dysfunctional now, far more dysfunctional that it was at the time of the last referendum, and that very dysfunction is going to be the thing that puts us over the top. . . and out of this abomination at the next referendum, vive le Quebec, vive le Quebec libre. I will of course continue to defend my Commander-in-Chief, when Quebec leaves they will be a republic, but as that tears the country apart, we here in Upper Canada will be free, and we're not getting rid of the Queen. More likely King by the time this goes down, because it's not going to happen tomorrow obviously. But we are patient, this is a long term project, we are laying the groundwork now for things to come in the next decade or so. Because this Information Age revolution is picking up pace now, the industrial work is really starting to go away (which is why I am also a member of the Anti-Work Movement, conservative wing) and as these industrial workers all start to lose their work, revolutionary forces will be in play, which will only hasten the downfall of this Failed State Zombie Confederation. This process has already begun, with Alberta industrial workers fighting BC Information workers, over pipelines and the oil sands vs. Climate Change urban Knowledge Economy elites. That is the Information Age revolution habbening. Same thing with Trump, because the revolution was that out of work industrial workers in the rust belt flipped from the Democrats to Trump, which is the only way he could have won. Well that’s a very tall order. Separatism is down and fading. Ottawa recognized Quebec as a nation and bilingualism is up nationwide. National unity is strong. Quote
Zeitgeist Posted January 10, 2019 Report Posted January 10, 2019 7 minutes ago, bush_cheney2004 said: How do you reconcile this position when it exists concurrent with being highly integrated with the U.S. economy and geo-political policies, including military treaties. Would Canada be such a "paradise" without such ties and dependencies ? The U.S. is already far more diversified for trade with China, so that can't be the difference. Well that would take a lot of analysis and increased Chinese imports are not the kind of trade we want. The ties are important. I’m not getting into a “we’re better” argument. I’m simply making the case for Canada against this peculiar form of Upper Canada separatism. Quote
Dougie93 Posted January 10, 2019 Report Posted January 10, 2019 (edited) Quebec is very changeable, they go on a cycle, political boom and bust, we're in the down cycle now, but as the effects of the Information Revolution continue to buffet Canada, there is going to be increasing unrest, similar to the US right now, we Pequistes will rise again, and due to politically unstable Quebec, it's not going to be too long. Edited January 10, 2019 by Dougie93 Quote
Zeitgeist Posted January 10, 2019 Report Posted January 10, 2019 12 minutes ago, Dougie93 said: The Russians are not going to launch a counterforce, the Russians are going to launch a countervalue strike, countervalue targets are population centers, so the targets will be Toronto, Montreal, Vancouver etc. Nothing will get hit in the North, because there are no targets in the north. Do you not understand what a thermonuclear bomb is, and what it is for? Okay that’s too much. To what end? To watch Moscow and St. Petersburg get wiped off the face of the Earth? Get real. Quote
Zeitgeist Posted January 10, 2019 Report Posted January 10, 2019 3 minutes ago, Dougie93 said: Quebec is very changeable, they go on a cycle, political boom and bust, we're in the down cycle now, but as the effects of the Information Revolution continue to buffet Canada, there is going to be increasing unrest, similar to the US right now, we Pequistes will rise again, and due to politically unstable Quebec, it's not going to be too long. Doubtful Quote
bush_cheney2004 Posted January 10, 2019 Report Posted January 10, 2019 (edited) 9 minutes ago, Zeitgeist said: Well that would take a lot of analysis and increased Chinese imports are not the kind of trade we want. The ties are important. I’m not getting into a “we’re better” argument. I’m simply making the case for Canada against this peculiar form of Upper Canada separatism. It not so much a "we're better argument" so much as accepting your premise at face value (i.e. free multi-cult paradise) and pointing out that Canada developed in such a way while being very closely integrated with the American economy, military, and popular culture, especially after WW2. Would this continue by moving to a different sphere that is less U.S. dependent or even opposed to American foreign & domestic policies ? Edited January 10, 2019 by bush_cheney2004 Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
Zeitgeist Posted January 10, 2019 Report Posted January 10, 2019 Just now, bush_cheney2004 said: It not so much a "we're better argument" so much as accepting your premise at face value (i.e. freed multi-cult paradise) and pointing out that Canada developed in such a way while being very closely integrated with the American economy, military, and popular culture, especially after WW2. Would this continue by moving to a different sphere that is less U.S. dependent or even opposed to American foreign & domestic policies ? Our foreign policies are very aligned. If Canada was where Australia is, it would probably be Australia. The concern always for Canadians with further integration with the US is that Canadian priorities are drowned out or overwhelmed. I can only imagine the fates of lone provinces. Quote
Dougie93 Posted January 10, 2019 Report Posted January 10, 2019 4 minutes ago, Zeitgeist said: Okay that’s too much. To what end? To watch Moscow and St. Petersburg get wiped off the face of the Earth? Get real. They're not going to do it intentionally, the bombs are at 15 minutes notice to launch, otherwise known as Hair Trigger Alert. That's 15 minutes to figure out what is going on before it launches by that warning, otherwise known as Launch On Warning. What would happen is this Cold War Two with Putin degenerates into a serious confrontation, the Americans have amazing early warning so they are reliable, but the Russians are not, the Russian early warning is a shambles, so they are the ones who will launch, by mistake, on false warning, when their early warning system shits the bed. That is not very unlikely, that falls under very plausible actually. Quote
bush_cheney2004 Posted January 10, 2019 Report Posted January 10, 2019 1 minute ago, Zeitgeist said: Our foreign policies are very aligned. If Canada was where Australia is, it would probably be Australia. The concern always for Canadians with further integration with the US is that Canadian priorities are drowned out or overwhelmed. I can only imagine the fates of lone provinces. Agreed....Canada's well known balancing act is too not get too close to the Americans, or too far away. This has been the case for a very long time and will not change because of current circumstances (Trudeau or Trump). Trudeau has a longer leash because he is not limited by Cold War realities, but other challenges exist instead (e.g. Globalism, immigration, so called "climate change", and the post industrial economy). As an outsider, the provinces will grow more restless if the federal government cannot or will not keep economic order. Nowadays, people cannot run to the oil patch during hard times....they are actually moving in the opposite direction. Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
Dougie93 Posted January 10, 2019 Report Posted January 10, 2019 (edited) 10 minutes ago, bush_cheney2004 said: Agreed....Canada's well known balancing act is too not get too close to the Americans, or too far away. This has been the case for a very long time and will not change because of current circumstances (Trudeau or Trump). Trudeau has a longer leash because he is not limited by Cold War realities, but other challenges exist instead (e.g. Globalism, immigration, so called "climate change", and the post industrial economy). As an outsider, the provinces will grow more restless if the federal government cannot or will not keep economic order. Nowadays, people cannot run to the oil patch during hard times....they are actually moving in the opposite direction. The government cannot keep economic order, because this is not a minor short term sea change, this is a revolution like the Industrial Revolution, and as then, it is now and is going to be increasingly inciting economic disorder, Yellow Vests ain't going away so to say, more and more industrial workers are going to be out of work, and because the government is dysfunctional, it can't actually find employment for them. Electorates all over the world and in Canada as well, are thrashing around trying to find a government who can fix it, Trump, Trudeau, Macron, Ford, Brexit, SNP, Green Party, blah, blah, blah But no government can fix it, because an epoch age post industrial revolution is too big, governments are impotent in the face of it, and that is going to cause rage. . . . . . and then there be a referendum in Quebec, and we Pequistes will ride that wave of post industrial rage right out of Confederation to be free. Edited January 10, 2019 by Dougie93 Quote
bush_cheney2004 Posted January 10, 2019 Report Posted January 10, 2019 9 minutes ago, Dougie93 said: They're not going to do it intentionally, the bombs are at 15 minutes notice to launch, otherwise known as Hair Trigger Alert. That's 15 minutes to figure out what is going on before it launches by that warning, otherwise known as Launch On Warning. Well, having made several Poseidon and Trident patrols as a nuclear weapons officer, that's not quite how it works. Suffice it to say that there are technical reasons that it takes several minutes to reach "Condition 1SQ for strategic launch" having nothing to do with intentions ( missile spin up, target package load, submarine hover, tube pressurization, and NCA command/control for authorization/permission to launch). Also, the U.S. is perfectly capable of first strike launches with a limited number of assets. Canada is well plugged into the defensive posture for North America, but less so when it comes to strategic forces and tactical warheads forward deployed in Europe. Trudeau knows that he must invest at a minimum level or risk Canada becoming more irrelevant for missions and capabilities. Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
Dougie93 Posted January 10, 2019 Report Posted January 10, 2019 (edited) 8 minutes ago, bush_cheney2004 said: Well, having made several Poseidon and Trident patrols as a nuclear weapons officer, that's not quite how it works. Suffice it to say that there are technical reasons that it takes several minutes to reach "Condition 1SQ for strategic launch" having nothing to do with intentions ( missile spin up, target package load, submarine hover, tube pressurization, and NCA command/control for authorization/permission to launch). Also, the U.S. is perfectly capable of first strike launches with a limited number of assets. Canada is well plugged into the defensive posture for North America, but less so when it comes to strategic forces and tactical warheads forward deployed in Europe. Trudeau knows that he must invest at a minimum level or risk Canada becoming more irrelevant for missions and capabilities. You served on a Boomer, sir? Awesome. I mean, I could never handle that tight quarters, I was made for the infantry, but the Boomers themselves, again, awesome. And I understand counterforce depressed trajectory SLBM profiles, but again, I'm not worried about the Americans, as I said, the Americans are reliable, Mr. Ivan on the other hand, is a ticking time bomb by so many vectors. Canada, is irrelevant, Fake Country, but harmless enough, so long as we can rid ourselves of this zombie Confederation. Which we will, I am sure of it, it's just a matter of time, and I'm patient. Those who think it's not going to happen are simply delusional as to how close it came last time, and how next time it will be in the throws of revolutionary change which will sweep across Quebec as well. Edited January 10, 2019 by Dougie93 Quote
bush_cheney2004 Posted January 10, 2019 Report Posted January 10, 2019 (edited) 10 minutes ago, Dougie93 said: You served on a Boomer, sir? Awesome. I mean, I could never handle that tight quarters, I was made for the infantry, but the Boomers themselves, again, awesome. Yes....I didn't like camping outside at Quantico, but I salute their/your service. Quote And I understand counterforce depressed trajectory SLBM profiles, but again, I'm not worried about the Americans, as I said, the Americans are reliable, Mr. Ivan on the other hand, is a ticking time bomb by so many vectors. I'm not even worried about a Crazy Ivan, there is a new threat that was unleashed when the polarized world went away and regional/sectarian nutbars could party hard, now with access to NBCR weapons. Quote Canada, is irrelevant, Fake Country, but harmless enough, so long as we can rid ourselves of this zombie Confederation. Which we will, I am sure of it, it's juts a matter of time, and those who think it's not going to happen are simple delusional as to how close it came last time, and how next time it will be in the throws of revolutionary change which will sweep across Quebec as well. Well, it would be interesting to see the Clarity Act exercised to conclusion, just to see if it works. Edited January 10, 2019 by bush_cheney2004 Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
Dougie93 Posted January 10, 2019 Report Posted January 10, 2019 2 minutes ago, bush_cheney2004 said: Yes....I didn't like camping outside at Quantico, but I salute their/your service. I'm not even worried about a Crazy Ivan, there is a new threat that was unleashed when the polarized world went way and regional/sectarian nutbars could party hard, now with access to NBCR weapons. Well, it would be interesting to see the Clarity Act exercised to conclusion, just to see if it works. Compliments returned in kind, sir. /salutes Well, there are so many aspects to this now multi-polar, multi-vector Cold War 2.0 But again, the thing that is causing it is the Information Age, as things are becoming increasingly unstable in the midst of, realpolitik by two stage fission-fusion tritium boosted critical mass is coming back, because as the Hegemons recoil from the market forces of it, they are going back to the future with cold war, but with all the new Information Age technology, which is starting to unbalance the Balance of Terror as well, BMD, Big Data, Hypersonics, etc Quote
Dougie93 Posted January 10, 2019 Report Posted January 10, 2019 (edited) 2 hours ago, Zeitgeist said: Our foreign policies are very aligned. If Canada was where Australia is, it would probably be Australia. The concern always for Canadians with further integration with the US is that Canadian priorities are drowned out or overwhelmed. I can only imagine the fates of lone provinces. Neither Canada nor Australia have real foreign policies, only the Hegemon's have foreign policies, Canada and Australia are Five Eyes, which is American foreign policy, in the American Hegemony, Empire of Liberty. Edited January 10, 2019 by Dougie93 Quote
Dougie93 Posted January 10, 2019 Report Posted January 10, 2019 (edited) Anyways, just to get back on topic, it is folly to throw money at the military, because the military is already dead. it's just window dressing, the term of art in military analysis is Boutique Army, there are some shiny pieces of kit on display, but there's nothing in the warehouse. Without logistics is what Boutique Army really means, no logistics tail so can't actually conduct operations, and so it cannot fight wars, not even small wars. This was gutted in the 90's by the Chretienite Liberals, plus all the institutional knowledge on the civilian side at DND as well, they gutted that too, so DND doesn't even know how to run things anymore, worst run defence department in the world by a country mile, bar none. it's been a Boutique Army ever since, and even a war in Afghanistan with soldiers come home in body bags, was not enough to convince the Canadian public to go big on warfighting, just with better equipment. Quite the opposite is the case, made them run from it, conservatives don't want to pay for it, the grown up ones at least, and the liberals just want to hold the dead carcass up to the public as a prop so they can funnel corporate welfare to Irving. You could spend a hundred billion on it and that still wouldn't rebuild decades of underfunding, it's too far gone, there's too much to replace, it can't be done for the money available, not even close. It's. Already. Dead. So stopping funneling money down that drain because its just throwing good money after bad. It gives me no pleasure to say this, but I already grieved for my army, and by now I've moved on. Stephen Harper knows. He came in all gung ho to spend money on it, but when he found out how broken it actually was, how the money never goes to where you want to go but just gets bled out all the orifices of dysfunction, he realized it was like doing mouth to mouth resuscitation on a rotting corpse. Throwing good money after bad, fiscal conservative; that is taxpayer money which should be returned to the taxpayers rather than used to light cigars as the Liberals do. So he scaled it all back and stopped spending money on it and got out of Afghanistan as quickly as possible to stop wasting money on that as well. That's not why I punished Harper by voting for Zoolander, I punished Harper for doing nothing on the gun file, did not fight back against Socialist Nanny Police State Gun Control, at all. So he was useless to me, the one thing I voted for he did nothing on; fired. Trudeaupe has come through with the dope, so he at least did the one thing I voted for, so mission accomplished, and that was another strike against Harper, because the PhonyCons are just the other wing of the Nanny Police State, they are the Prohibitionist Nanny Police State, and death to the Temperance Lady I say. Thus, what you have here is not an army, it's an armed constabulary, an armed constabulary is still military, it's not paramilitary, it packs way more punch than the RCMP, an armed constabulary is for countries which face no practical prospect of invasion, can't deploy expeditionary to invade other peoples country, but is still a beast in its own territory against terrorists, insurgents and breakdown of civil order. And it can do humanitarian floods, fires, search and rescue, border interdiction etc And that is the real mission of the Canadian Army right now, everything else is expendable. There are plenty of kick ass armed constabularies, it's like Milton Friedman's Hong Kong for all the conservatives out there, what was defending it from the Chinese? Answer; The British Strategic Nuclear Deterrent, and an armed constabulary on the border, of super elite Gurkha Rifles. That's what Canader needs, Milton Friedman's Hong Kong, with a kick ass armed constabulary to bail the Mounties out when the Mounties cause a problem. In terms of fighter jets? New Zealand doesn't have any not even one. The Americans have to do NORAD, so let them. If you do all that, then you can afford to keep the navy and special operations forces. Which again, is exactly what New Zealand does. Don't think of Canada as a Frozen Australia because in actual fact it's a Giant New Zealand, when it comes to military imperatives and politics. Canada has only ever fought one war which was not on behalf of either the British or the American Empires and which was totally under Canadian command and control, and that was the Northwest Rebellion of 1885. That is what a Canadian War looks like, everything else is Canada fighting Anglo-American wars. Edited January 10, 2019 by Dougie93 Quote
Argus Posted January 10, 2019 Report Posted January 10, 2019 10 hours ago, Dougie93 said: Draw conclusions as you may, but conclusions not supported by logical consistency backed up by evidence are not arguments, those are called opinions, which are inherently unfounded, Does this not describe your belief that Canadians would be better off with ten little countries than one? It's not supported by logical consistency, nor backed up by evidence. Quote "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
Dougie93 Posted January 10, 2019 Report Posted January 10, 2019 1 minute ago, Argus said: Does this not describe your belief that Canadians would be better off with ten little countries than one? It's not supported by logical consistency, nor backed up by evidence. Of course not, but that is not how countries are born, countries are born of many things, but they are never born of that. Countries are not an argument, argument is brain, country is heart. Quote
Argus Posted January 10, 2019 Report Posted January 10, 2019 Just now, Dougie93 said: Of course not, but that is not how countries are born, countries are born of many things, but they are never born of that. Countries are not an argument, argument is brain, country is heart. Then your desire for ten little countries makes no sense. Quote "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
Dougie93 Posted January 10, 2019 Report Posted January 10, 2019 (edited) 5 minutes ago, Argus said: Then your desire for ten little countries makes no sense. It makes sense because what we have now is an abomination. The Federal Government is literally worse than useless, it is wrecking the place and its starting crumble now. At the provincial level is where everything gets done, in the real countries rather than the Fake Country, because the real country Provinces/Regions care about their own countries, they just don't give a rats ass about Canada, other than hockey. So we'll keep Team Canada, and when everything is Tremendous! in the new Dominions, we'll have nothing to argue about except who gets their players on Team Canada. Edited January 10, 2019 by Dougie93 Quote
Zeitgeist Posted January 10, 2019 Report Posted January 10, 2019 (edited) 2 hours ago, Dougie93 said: Anyways, just to get back on topic, it is folly to throw money at the military, because the military is already dead. it's just window dressing, the term of art in military analysis is Boutique Army, there are some shiny pieces of kit on display, but there's nothing in the warehouse. Without logistics is what Boutique Army really means, no logistics tail so can't actually conduct operations, and so it cannot fight wars, not even small wars. This was gutted in the 90's by the Chretienite Liberals, plus all the institutional knowledge on the civilian side at DND as well, they gutted that too, so DND doesn't even know how to run things anymore, worst run defence department in the world by a country mile, bar none. it's been a Boutique Army ever since, and even a war in Afghanistan with soldiers come home in body bags, was not even enough to convince the Canadian public to go big on warfighting. Quite the opposite is the case, made them run from it, conservatives don't want to pay for it, the grown up ones at least, and the liberals just want to hold the dead carcass up to the public as a prop so they can funnel corporate welfare to Irving. You could spend a hundred billion on it and that still wouldn't rebuild decades of underfunding, it's too far gone, there's too much to replace, it can be done for the money available. It's. Already. Dead. So stopping funneling money down that drain because its just throwing good money after bad. It gives me no pleasure to say this, but I already grieved for my army, and by now I've moved on. Stephen Harper knows. He came in all gung ho to spend money on it, but when he found out how broken it actually was, how the money never goes to where you want to go but just gets bled out all the orifices of dysfunction, he realized it was like doing mouth to mouth resuscitation on a rotting corpse. Throwing good money after bad, fiscal conservative; that is taxpayer money which should be returned to the taxpayers rather than used to light cigars as the Liberals do. So he scaled it all back and stopped spending money on it and got out of Afghanistan as quickly as possible to stop wasting money on that as well. Well I’m not military but I have some high level contacts who have described some of the challenges equipping the forces given competing public interests. Canada is often forced to compromise and focus on fewer types of hardware. It’s been the ongoing saga with heavy lift, fighters, used submarines...There were some successes with some of the LAV’s, city class frigates, and so forth, but Canada’s role is never in isolation but as part of a multi-national force in NATO. Canada draws ire from enemies of the US for being a member of NATO, which we fully accept. We also recognize the value of the defence NATO provides for Canada and have no illusions about who is the dominant power in NATO. Having said that, I don’t think Canada’s central role in NATO is combat, though we can and should be able to engage in it. Canada is seen as an honest broker, a kind of liaison between the US and Europe, and in some ways, between the US and the world. Trudeau actually helped explain Trump to European leaders. In NATO operations, Canada is good at building relationships with locals, keeping the peace, and rebuilding institutions. I believe that it helps the US to have the maple leaf in the field. It’s as much about diplomacy as blowing up shit, which no doubt the US can do better than any other NATO country. I think it’s a big mistake to cut funding to the military and lose more capabilities. We lost the Airborne, much of the old Marines, and our Air Force is small. We need more, not less. Edited January 10, 2019 by Zeitgeist Quote
Argus Posted January 10, 2019 Report Posted January 10, 2019 (edited) 3 minutes ago, Dougie93 said: It makes sense because what we have now is an abomination. The Federal Government is literally worse than useless, it is wrecking the place and its starting crumble now. There's no evidence the provinces are any better. Nor, in fact, that the government in the US, UK or France are any better. Quote At the provincial level is where everything gets done, in the real countries rather than the Fake Country, because the real country Provinces/Regions care about their own countries, they just don't give a rats ass about Canada, other than hockey. Nonsense and untrue. And with regard to militaries, if we under fund our existing one, which we do, why on earth would you imagine ten little Canada's would do any better? Edited January 10, 2019 by Argus Quote "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
Zeitgeist Posted January 10, 2019 Report Posted January 10, 2019 2 minutes ago, Dougie93 said: It makes sense because what we have now is an abomination. The Federal Government is literally worse than useless, it is wrecking the place and its starting crumble now. At the provincial level is where everything gets done, in the real countries rather than the Fake Country, because the real country Provinces/Regions care about their own countries, they just don't give a rats ass about Canada, other than hockey. So we'll keep Team Canada, and when everything is Tremendous! in the new Dominions, we'll have nothing to argue about except who gets their players on Team Canada. Again, tell that to the remote locations with federal infrastructure and services. Wide swaths of the country would struggle without a federal government. In any event, Canadians are proud of their country and don’t seek to dismantle the federation. 1 Quote
Dougie93 Posted January 10, 2019 Report Posted January 10, 2019 The LAV is a deathtrap, it's a terrible design and it's not survivable and it's dangerous, because they roll over and the commander in the cupola gets crushed. The Halifax class is also useless in a real naval war, it's a glorified patrol ship. Anything in NATO whose roll is not combat should not be in NATO, NATO is league league, it exists to fight Russian Tank Armies, and should not be used for anything else, ever again. Canada is totally useless in NATO, we are the most pathetically equipped into NATO, Canada has fallen out of the big leagues now. I support NATO, I'm pro NATO, which is why I think Canada should not be in NATO, because Canada is the ultimate Free Rider country, so anything Canada provides has to be supported by the other NATO countries entirely in a logistical sense, so Canada is net loss to NATO not a gain. Keep NATO, just kick hippie dippie peacenik Canada out. Quote
Dougie93 Posted January 10, 2019 Report Posted January 10, 2019 (edited) 8 minutes ago, Zeitgeist said: Again, tell that to the remote locations with federal infrastructure and services. Wide swaths of the country would struggle without a federal government. In any event, Canadians are proud of their country and don’t seek to dismantle the federation. I'm not asking their permission. Their Confederation is unstable and can be taken down with just winning a few ridings in Quebec, and Canada's SCC has said that it is not only legal, it's a constitutional right. Even Canada's own Prime Minister is already calling it a Post National Country. Edited January 10, 2019 by Dougie93 Quote
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