Army Guy Posted January 12, 2019 Author Report Share Posted January 12, 2019 1 hour ago, Dougie93 said: I reject the assertion that 1 RCR was "devastated" by the A-10 blue on blue at Op Medusa. That was just 8 Platoon, Charles Company, that wasn't the whole battalion, and they are professionals, so they just carried on as professional soldiers do, and then 8 Platoon was reconstituted with replacements. Sure, it sucks to take a blue on blue and it was tragic that it killed Graham, but "devastated" is nonsense. You can reject what ever you want to, but my description of devastated stands, and while I might not be as professional as you are , or claim to be but it felt like someone kicked me in the balls when I heard the news in Gagetown.....and through out Medusa when the Bn was taking other causalities, that felling would return….yes it all happened to almost all 8 plt , Charles Company was combat ineffective and not just for that day but for a long time after that....even after the replacements got there it was not the same....and yes they are professional, and yes they carried on with the rest of the OP but if your going to post that the rest of the company, or for that matter the rest of the Bn was not effected by those events I'd say bullshit. Those losses where felt though out the entire Regt, most that served in 1, 2, 3 knew a lot of those soldiers personally....I guess we are not all machines as you would suggest... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dougie93 Posted January 12, 2019 Report Share Posted January 12, 2019 It kicked me in the heart too, I knew some of these people personally, either they been at some point my immediate boss, like Warrant Mellish had been, or I had been at some point their immediate boss, as with Cpl. Dyer fallen at Tarnak Farms. I stood at his grave as they lowered him into it. But devastation is absurd, devastation is me falling down and can't go on, which is not the case, everybody gotta die sometime, Red, sh*t happens, you take a life moment to grieve, then ya gotta buck up, ruck up and stand to again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dougie93 Posted January 12, 2019 Report Share Posted January 12, 2019 I mean, I worshiped Frank Mellish, he was an Infantry God in the classical sense, he was a super soldier, and his bearing was so cool, he was like Clint Eastwood. When they said Frank Mellish had fallen, that was a shock, make no mistake. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dougie93 Posted January 12, 2019 Report Share Posted January 12, 2019 Not to mention it was a glorious death, a warrior sings his death song. Leans into the howling storm, to go forward under rain of fire, to recover best friend's body, as cannot leave a man behind, certainly not to the hands of the Taliban? That was Mellish. Supersoldier, Infantry God in the classical sense. His name will be wreathed in valour in the annals of the Canadian Army, forever. I don't see him as a victim. Not everyone who serves has the privilege of being heroic, but Warrant Mellish lived and died it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Army Guy Posted January 13, 2019 Author Report Share Posted January 13, 2019 1 hour ago, Dougie93 said: I don't know what it is like now, but in my experience, 1 RCR is not actually one big happy family, 1 RCR is a stress factory and you're getting dicked around all the time and Sargeant-Major's are cracking the whip and throwing people on defaulters all over the place. And if you're in a rifle company, those are the guys you know, Dukes company, Bravo company and Charles company never got along, actually had huge brawls in the parking lot outside of Sassy's So if somebody gets killed in another company, that is tragic, but you probably didn't know them all that well, just saw them in passing, so "devastating" is being melodramatic. Then you should also know that a BN's moral can change on a dime depending who the CO or RSM are, and so on down the chain of command...it's the people that make a decent BN , and like any organization there are always dicks...I could give you an every ending list of dicks in the infantry....as well as a huge list of guys that made serving worth while....like they used to say, want it easy you should have joined the chair force. and yes there was a lot of inter company scraps, you put a keg of beer down in a group of infantry guys and your going to have a scrap....thats what A type personalities do....and like any BN, one day you could be in Bravo, the next in Charles and to say you just dropped any friendships or loyalties because of you changed companies is bullshit... Most of us spent most of our Careers in one BN , so ya hard not to develop friendships across the entire BN, that being said , I also knew a shit ton of Royals from the other BN's as well. Funney I had you pegged as a dirty old Vandoo…. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dougie93 Posted January 13, 2019 Report Share Posted January 13, 2019 I just follow Canadian Army doctrine, which is you're perfectly within your professional bearing to talk about your experiences of something, but moreover, that's not an argument, so I'm not arguing with you, that was just my view of 1 RCR, Victoria Barracks (Y101) is not called the Chicken Ranch for nothing, the chickensh*t gets piled high. Other battalions are more laid back, and the Vandoos is a love camp. /shrugs Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dougie93 Posted January 13, 2019 Report Share Posted January 13, 2019 The personalities of the regiments was perfectly expressed by their sub units detached as Commandos to the Airborne Regiment. You go into the RCR 3 Cdo shacks, and they were all packing and repacking their kit and polishing their boots. You go into the R22eR Premiere Cdo Shacks, and they were all eating popcorn while watching Beverly Hills 90210 in French. Then you go to the PPCLI 2 Cdo shacks, and its like jail, broken beer bottles piled up in the garbage cans and the sound of weights crashing in the gym. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Army Guy Posted January 13, 2019 Author Report Share Posted January 13, 2019 3 hours ago, Dougie93 said: It kicked me in the heart too, I knew some of these people personally, either they been at some point my immediate boss, like Warrant Mellish had been, or I had been at some point their immediate boss, as with Cpl. Dyer fallen at Tarnak Farms. I stood at his grave as they lowered him into it. But devastation is absurd, devastation is me falling down and can't go on, which is not the case, everybody gotta die sometime, Red, sh*t happens, you take a life moment to grieve, then ya gotta buck up, ruck up and stand to again. Devastated to me is like getting kicked in the balls, a piece of your heart torn out, knowing that these people are not going to be around any more, Did it effect me and my ablity to function as a soldier, I'd be a liar if I said no....did I buck the fuck up...we all did Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dougie93 Posted January 13, 2019 Report Share Posted January 13, 2019 Never said you didn't, so why do you keep going on about it? I gave you my experience of it, what do you want? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Army Guy Posted January 13, 2019 Author Report Share Posted January 13, 2019 Your absolutely right, I apologize, your experiences my differ than mine, I spent most of my time in the 3 rd BN London and Germany, then when they disbanded was sent to the 2 nd in Gagetown until retirement. I can honestly say my 30 plus years with the Regt I had more good times than bad, maybe I was lucky... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dougie93 Posted January 13, 2019 Report Share Posted January 13, 2019 No need to apologize, I'm not upset, I just don't understand what it is you want me to say. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Army Guy Posted January 13, 2019 Author Report Share Posted January 13, 2019 I don't want anything from you, there is a lot of posers on the inter net, and I had some hairs stand up on the back of my neck when you where discussing the Regt thats all... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dougie93 Posted January 13, 2019 Report Share Posted January 13, 2019 Well I'm not trying to sell you anything, I don't care what others say about it on the internet, I just have my view of it, but I can't say that a KIA is devastating, devastating to me is like losing your wife, or a child, losing a troop is the price of doing business, that's the job, that's what we signed up for, with eyes wide open hand on bible in front of the Queen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dougie93 Posted January 13, 2019 Report Share Posted January 13, 2019 And to the larger point, if Canada cannot tolerate the loss of 152 KIA, which was kind of the case, then what kind of wars can we even fight anymore? Because 152 KIA in 12 years is light casualties by any military measure. This is why I don't want to spend $20+ billion for a supposed warfighting army, and instead go to an armed constabulary formalized, because that's what we got now anyways, just with some really expensive kit sprinkled around here and there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zeitgeist Posted January 13, 2019 Report Share Posted January 13, 2019 18 minutes ago, Army Guy said: Your absolutely right, I apologize, your experiences my differ than mine, I spent most of my time in the 3 rd BN London and Germany, then when they disbanded was sent to the 2 nd in Gagetown until retirement. I can honestly say my 30 plus years with the Regt I had more good times than bad, maybe I was lucky... I’ve never met anyone in the CF with views like Dougie. I think he’s fake. I’m seeing a good friend who’s a colonel, and I’ll get his take on those posts. Everyone I know in the CF is bleeding red and white. They’re the most patriotic people I know. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dougie93 Posted January 13, 2019 Report Share Posted January 13, 2019 I was gung ho when I joined the army, but by the end of the 90's I wasn't gung ho anymore, because they had basically dismantled the army all around me and gutted the logistics tail. Message to me from the Canadian people being; "we don't care about our army, we don't want an army". Message received, don't come crying to me now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dougie93 Posted January 13, 2019 Report Share Posted January 13, 2019 The breaking point for me was the Somalia Inquiry, I didn't serve in the Airborne and I understood the problems there, but that wasn't the point, the point was they blamed everything on the lowest ranks and then when it came time to examine the negligence of the chain of command, they promptly shut it down. So they throw you under the bus to save their careers was the message to me. Again, message received. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Army Guy Posted January 13, 2019 Author Report Share Posted January 13, 2019 For me, Seen to many good men pay a high price on the battle field to have some poser or peace nik talk bad about them or the Regt, hence why I was a little short, thats just me, I figure I owe them that much...Now if another soldier does it he has earn that right....I don't have to like it, it's just the way it is....... I get what your trying to say, and I use to have the same opinion , give the same speech to my troops, that is until one of your close buddies pays that price, .. from that that moment on that speech means nothing. Even though you continue to use it as a motivational speech to your troops. Question, how does an RCR go from being a soldier , to a separatist ? I ask because that is a huge leap... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dougie93 Posted January 13, 2019 Report Share Posted January 13, 2019 I'm terms of peacenik, I'm no peacenik, but Canada as a country is, I didn't want to get rid of our warfighting capability, they did. In terms of my chain of loyalty, well, VRI says it all. Victoria is my Queen and Empress, through her heirs and successors, Pro Patria is to the Crown at Buckingham Palace, where the Commander-in-Chief is, there is no particular requirement to be loyal to Canadian Confederation in the Commonwealth. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dougie93 Posted January 13, 2019 Report Share Posted January 13, 2019 Case in point, you could get out of the Canadian Army and join the Australian Army and your still serving the same Soveriegn, Head of State and Commander-in-Chief. It's not my fault Canadians think they live in a republic. /shrugs Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Army Guy Posted January 13, 2019 Author Report Share Posted January 13, 2019 I think Dougie is the real deal, and it's not a matter of bleeding red and white, but a matter of his loyalty to the Department, and in the grand scheme of things joining the military was never about wrapping yourself in the flag, but joining something bigger and larger than life , but when you boil it all down it was the man left and right of you, your unit or Regt, and some where down the line comes the flag and country....Not many soldiers are happy about what has happened to DND over the last 25 years, and I get where he is coming from....To see it ripped apart or is a lot of cases discarded with no regards to the men and women in it...was a huge let down...and in most cases it was over saving funding so the government could use in some useless campaign promise that does not even exist today. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dougie93 Posted January 13, 2019 Report Share Posted January 13, 2019 Loyalty to DND? No way, no loyalty to DND me, any service member who is loyal to DND is suffering from abused wife syndrome. In terms of loyalty to the regiment, trust me, I wish I could save it, but the only way to save it would be to give it to someone else who would actually care for it. Quite sure the Australian defence department would treat the RCR way better than DND does. Have you seen the Aussies lately? RAR's kit is better than CANSOFCOM's Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Army Guy Posted January 13, 2019 Author Report Share Posted January 13, 2019 The Aussies have the leadership to make those changes, it was not so long ago, they were on the same level as DND, equipment wise, operating old leo I tanks, F-18, crusty navy....which is why I still have hope if they can do it so can we....Until then DND will be distracted with a new series of Berets, dark blue for support units, and dark green for operational units... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dougie93 Posted January 13, 2019 Report Share Posted January 13, 2019 (edited) So Canada doesn't have the leadership to field a basically capable and functioning military, which is the underpinning of everything in terms of being a sovereign Westphalian State, but you expect me to have undying allegiance to this? Edited January 13, 2019 by Dougie93 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Army Guy Posted January 13, 2019 Author Report Share Posted January 13, 2019 Me personally, I don't expect anything from you, and I'm not judging you by any means, "my" opinion is there is still hope, if we don't have hope then what do we have...empty dreams...I don't see breaking up the nation as the end all be all, then again I have not really put in any effort into researching it to find the pros and cons, what I do know is that it is becoming more popular in other provinces as well...separation is the new buzz word in places like Alberta and Saskatchewan, I think it will produce more losers than winners... again just my opinion ...I think most of our problems can be solved with good leadership.....when does that come not sure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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