Should Canada suspend relations with China?

[Dougie93]

I'm not worried about the Americans, there are fascists at the margins in all Western countries and in the wake of military debacles and economic crisis they tend to gain influence, but what is going on in America today is pretty milquetoast in the context of the  American Hurly Burly.   In terms of Canadian democracy, it's basically just a kiddie table version of what's going on down there, same paradigm, without the courage of convictions.  As per usual, as Canadians lack a distinct culture outside of Quebec, they basically try to emulate the Americans to fill the void, the main difference is that in Canada the far leftist pseudo-Bolsheviks are dominant with no real opposition.

Edited January 8, 2019 by Dougie93

[Zeitgeist]

50 minutes ago, Dougie93 said:

I'm not worried about the Americans, there are fascists at the margins in all Western countries and in the wake of military debacles and economic crisis they tend to gain influence, but what is going on in America today is pretty milquetoast in the context of the  American Hurly Burly.   In terms of Canadian democracy, it's basically just a kiddie table version of what's going on down there, same paradigm, without the courage of convictions.  As per usual, as Canadians lack a distinct culture outside of Quebec, they basically try to emulate the Americans to fill the void, the main difference is that in Canada the far leftist pseudo-Bolsheviks are dominant with no real opposition.

You clearly don’t understand Canada.  You’re just another American who thinks we’re just copies of Americans.  American culture is just one influence in our multicultural society, albeit a significant one. That’s mostly because I live in Southern Ontario.  The influence of US culture is high here. 

[Dougie93]

I certainly don't understand why Canadians like you internalize the state as being indistinguishable from yourself to the exclusion of all free thought or reason.

Actually that's not true, you were indoctrinated from a young age by the teachers unions, who knew?

[Zeitgeist]

20 minutes ago, Dougie93 said:

I certainly don't understand why Canadians like you internalize the state as being indistinguishable from yourself to the exclusion of all free thought or reason.

Actually that's not true, you were indoctrinated from a young age by the teachers unions, who knew?

Teaching is treated as a profession in Canada.  Hard to get into teaching programs.  We have the best public education system in the English speaking world. I’m not boasting.  International test scores prove it.  See the last PISA test results. 

[Dougie93]

6 minutes ago, Zeitgeist said:

Teaching is treated as a profession in Canada.  Hard to get into teaching programs.  We have the best public education system in the English speaking world. I’m not boasting.  International test scores prove it.  See the last PISA test results. 

The metrics for the tests are completely obsolete, 19th century education which is useless to the students, the teacher union entrenched interest prevents the education system from being reformed for the Information Age, because then they'd be out of job. Teachers are at this juncture nothing more than vastly overpaid baby sitters.

Edited January 8, 2019 by Dougie93

[Zeitgeist]

10 minutes ago, Dougie93 said:

The metrics for the tests are completely obsolete, 19th century education which is useless to the students, the teacher union entrenched interest prevents the education system from being reformed for the Information Age, because then they'd be out of job. Teachers are at this juncture nothing more than vastly overpaid baby sitters.

You really don’t know much about what goes on in Canadian schools, which are full of Smarboarts, Chromebook carts, IPads, Dells, Makerspaces, Dot and Dash robots, coding clubs, 21st century flexible learning spaces, and so much more. Many schools are going paperless and there’s a big environmental stewardship component.  These kids talk circles around adults when it comes to media and IT. 

Edited January 8, 2019 by Zeitgeist

[Dougie93]

14 minutes ago, Zeitgeist said:

You really don’t know much about what goes on in Canadian schools, which are full of Smarboarts, Chromebook carts, IPads, Dells, Makerspaces, Dot and Dash robots, coding clubs, 21st century flexible learning spaces, and so much more. Many schools are going paperless and there’s a big environmental stewardship component.  These kids talk circles around adults when it comes to media and IT. 

No thanks to the teachers unions, the vast majority of which are Cultural Marxist liberal arts grads indoctrinating the little dearies into the being morally dependent Identity Politics nutjobs.

[Zeitgeist]

6 minutes ago, Dougie93 said:

No thanks to the teachers unions, the vast majority of which are Cultural Marxist liberal arts grads indoctrinating the little dearies into the being morally dependent Identity Politics nutjobs.

Absolute bullshit.  More right wing paranoid drivel.  I’m waiting to hear from you about the Globalist Conspiracy and Soros.  Shouldn’t you already be in a FEMA camp?

[Dougie93]

Nah, I don't do the Soros thing, and Globalism is a conspiracy in plain sight, but that's not actually a project of the far left, that's the NeoLiberals.

[montgomery]

8 hours ago, turningrite said:

1.) How very threatening of you. (Charming!) Are you, by the way, cisgender or transgender - if assuming that you're male is so apparently offensive to you? Please advise of the appropriate pronoun(s) other posters might use when referring to you. That would be considerate on your part.

2.) I wasn't responding to you. I was responding to and supporting a post by GostHacked, so I'll leave it to him to decide whether he thinks it appropriate, or otherwise.

3.) That's just tripe. China's role in Tibet and Russia's aggression in eastern Ukraine illustrate that the other major powers have also been accused of abusing their military power and might. The U.S., like China and Russia, refuses to acknowledge the applicability of international law where its own actions and behavior are concerned. America's behavior has not always been perfect - far from it - but it is often expected by much of the world to function in a policing role. Did you watch (Egyptian president) el-Sisi's interview on 60 Minutes yesterday evening? He specifically noted and affirmed the policing role the U.S. serves in international affairs. Unfortunately, American exceptionalism and the influence of its "military-industrial complex" have led the U.S. into disastrous conflicts, like Vietnam and the second Iraq war. On balance, though, I think the U.S. has done more good than harm in the world. And the U.S., a democracy, has the capacity for introspection, rendering it able to acknowledge its mistakes, even if sometimes only after the fact, a trait not generally replicated by the other powers.

How many more wars must the US start, and how many more tens of millions of innocent people must the US bombs tear to shreds before You Conservatives decide they have done more harm than good?

Or how about Russia and China? Do they deserve your Conservative praise for failing to start anywhere near any wars? Hmmmm?

[GostHacked]

9 hours ago, Zeitgeist said:

You really don’t know much about what goes on in Canadian schools, which are full of Smarboarts, Chromebook carts, IPads, Dells, Makerspaces, Dot and Dash robots, coding clubs, 21st century flexible learning spaces, and so much more. Many schools are going paperless and there’s a big environmental stewardship component.  These kids talk circles around adults when it comes to media and IT. 

Kids also do not have the ability to distinguish between online and offline. It actually creates and causes more stress and anxiety on children.

And going paperless is a nice idea, but now you have to manufacture tablets to replace all that which comes at a different environmental impact. E-waste is a huge problem with the rapid advancement of technology which makes devices obsolete in shorter time frames.

[Argus]

20 hours ago, Dougie93 said:

Only if they are in Cabinet, the Prime Minister is the Queen's executive, the position of Liberal party leader is not an executive position, and if a Prime Minister starts trying to strong arm MP's, they'll just cross the floor to the Tories, so any threats of consequences he would make would be empty.

Have you been living in Peru the last seventy five odd years?

The PM not only can strongarm them he can do it with the hint of a suggestion that he might dissaprove of whatever it is they're doing. At which point the MP in question will urinate down the front of his or her trousers, burst into tears, and beg forgiveness. There is no bravery among our MPs. This is not the UK. Our MPs are a back of nobodies, as PET said, and do what they're told. It's a rare MP who has the balls to cross the floor.

[Dougie93]

Just now, Argus said:

Have you been living in Peru the last seventy five odd years?

The PM not only can strongarm them he can do it with the hint of a suggestion that he might dissaprove of whatever it is they're doing. At which point the MP in question will urinate down the front of his or her trousers, burst into tears, and beg forgiveness. There is no bravery among our MPs. This is not the UK. Our MPs are a back of nobodies, as PET said, and do what they're told. It's a rare MP who has the balls to cross the floor.

If you're Pierre Trudeau maybe, but Justin Trudeau doesn't have that kind of gravitas,

[Argus]

Just now, Dougie93 said:

If you're Pierre Trudeau maybe, but Justin Trudeau doesn't have that kind of gravitas,

He doesn't need gravitas to cow that collection of simpering boot lickers.

[Dougie93]

Trudeau is a weak leader, he really is Zoolander, everything the Harper Cons said about him is true, not ready for prime time, certainly in the big leagues beyond the borders of Canada, that doesn't mean the Cons were any better, but it is and was none the less true.

[Dougie93]

5 minutes ago, Argus said:

He doesn't need gravitas to cow that collection of simpering boot lickers.

Yes, but the ones who are not in Cabinet, the Backbenchers, all they have to worry about is winning their own ridings, for them this job is just government make work, they just hang out in Ottawa and get paid to shill for entrenched interests, but, so long as they win their own riding, they can do that for the Liberals or the Cons or the NDP, Trudeau has no particular leverage over the vast majority of MP's who know they almost have no chance of getting into Cabinet.

Edited January 8, 2019 by Dougie93

[Dougie93]

I mean, If Margaret Thatcher can be brought down in a palace coup, any Prime Minister can be brought down in a palace coup.

[turningrite]

21 hours ago, Dougie93 said:

I mean, If Margaret Thatcher can be brought down in a palace coup, any Prime Minister can be brought down in a palace coup.

Party leaders in Canada are selected and fired in an entirely different fashion than in Britain and Australia, where parliamentary caucuses can force out sitting leaders and choose new ones. Canadian parties have opted to allow party members at large to select leaders and in general their leaders can only be brought down at party conventions after failing to win adequate support in confidence votes. Whether this is an altogether positive approach is questionable. Under our system, party leaders hang on for too long when they're no longer effective and new leaders are often selected by compromise, and, further, special interests can have too much influence. So, it's almost impossible to envisage a scenario where a sitting PM in Canada could be brought down in a palace coup.

Edited January 9, 2019 by turningrite

[turningrite]

22 hours ago, Dougie93 said:

Trudeau is a weak leader, he really is Zoolander, everything the Harper Cons said about him is true, not ready for prime time, certainly in the big leagues beyond the borders of Canada, that doesn't mean the Cons were any better, but it is and was none the less true.

I agree with you about Trudeau. In relation to the topic at hand regarding Canada's current diplomatic rift with China, polling results published yesterday (link below) clearly illustrate that most Canadians want legal due process to determine the outcome of the Meng extradition request. Lest Trudeau's supporters feel ebullient about public sentiment, however, the results also indicate that there is little appetite among Canadians for a closer relationship with the PRC and, in particular, most (over 80%) have a negative view of the 'basic dictatorship' our PM so admires. So Trudeau's China strategy, if it wasn't already in tatters, appears to have turned to dust. Does Trudeau have a 'Plan B'? He usually doesn't.

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/politics/article-canadians-support-ottawas-decision-to-arrest-huawei-executive-poll/

[Dougie93]

While due process and the rule of law are of cornerstones of the modern liberal state (modern as of 1688 that is),  this is what the military would refer as a "non-kinetic" war in progress where the Chinese are attempting to use Canada as a fifth column against the United States and where the United States is reacting by trying to make it increasingly difficult for Canada to subjugate itself to the Chinese, in essence, due to Canada being attached to the United States, no, we may not become clients of the Chinese in their eyes, but due to the Liberal Party of Canada's delusion about Canada being able to transfer ourselves from being a colony of United States to being a colony of the Peoples Communist Party of China we are  now being rendered  into a security threat to Americans, and so now the Americans are reacting with increasing alarm and taking increasingly concrete actions thereto  (steel/aluminum tariffs, deliberately bypassing Ottawa and having Meng arrested with informing them, etc)

 

[Argus]

23 hours ago, Dougie93 said:

Yes, but the ones who are not in Cabinet, the Backbenchers, all they have to worry about is winning their own ridings, for them this job is just government make work, they just hang out in Ottawa and get paid to shill for entrenched interests, but, so long as they win their own riding, they can do that for the Liberals or the Cons or the NDP, Trudeau has no particular leverage over the vast majority of MP's who know they almost have no chance of getting into Cabinet.

Most of the ridings in Canada have a pretty set political persuasion. They ALWAYS vote tory, liberal or NDP. If you're in one of those ridings then the party leader refusing to sign your nomination papers pretty much dooms you to exit politics. And even in other ridings there's no guarantee the local riding association will accept you as the candidate next time around. No, no, the safest thing to do is smile and bob your head. And that's what they all do.

[Argus]

23 hours ago, Dougie93 said:

I mean, If Margaret Thatcher can be brought down in a palace coup, any Prime Minister can be brought down in a palace coup.

Backbench MPs in the UK can openly express their disagreement of government policy and both ministers and prime minister and suffer no punishment. They can write op-ed columns decrying new government initiatives and sneer at ministers explanations. There is a freedom there that Canadian MPs can only dream about.

[Zeitgeist]

On 1/8/2019 at 8:38 AM, GostHacked said:

Kids also do not have the ability to distinguish between online and offline. It actually creates and causes more stress and anxiety on children.

And going paperless is a nice idea, but now you have to manufacture tablets to replace all that which comes at a different environmental impact. E-waste is a huge problem with the rapid advancement of technology which makes devices obsolete in shorter time frames.

The trick is Bring Your Own Device polices with a school bank of devices for have-not kids, already policy in some boards. 

[Zeitgeist]

1 hour ago, Argus said:

Backbench MPs in the UK can openly express their disagreement of government policy and both ministers and prime minister and suffer no punishment. They can write op-ed columns decrying new government initiatives and sneer at ministers explanations. There is a freedom there that Canadian MPs can only dream about.

Well MP’s can and do cross the floor or go independent.  

[turningrite]

2 minutes ago, Zeitgeist said:

Well MP’s can and do cross the floor or go independent.  

Yup, and never in most cases be re-elected. LOL. Not much of an option in our system.