Get Rid of the Penny

[August1991]

Le Canada visera une récolte record de médailles aux Jeux olympiques d'hiver de 2010. La quête vers les podiums vient toutefois de rencontrer une embûche avec le refus du gouvernement fédéral de ne pas donner suite à la proposition de transformer le billet de 5$ par une pièce de monnaie.

....

Selon une étude réalisée en 1994 par la Banque du Canada, le remplacement du billet de 1$ par une pièce de monnaie en 1987 a permis au gouvernement fédéral d'économiser 487 millions $ au cours des cinq premières années.

Radio-Canada

In preparation for the Vancouver Olympics, it was suggested that we replace the $5 bill with a coin. Since coins last longer than paper money, this would save the government printing costs and the savings would be used to help Canadian athletes.

In Europe, the smallest paper denomination is 5 euros (worth almost $8 Canadian) and in the UK, the smallest paper bill is 5 pounds (worth about $10 Cdn).

----

I have a different idea. I think we should simply abolish the penny. With inflation, the Canadian one cent isn't worth anything anymore. They're a hassle to count, and unload from purses and pockets. The Mint has to produce and ship rolls of the damn things. Shops and banks have to keep them and count them. Thousands of shopclerks across Canada are counting the damn things everyday. For what? All prices should be rounded up to a nickel.

I think the UK used to have a half-penny that disappeared long ago. Before the euro, the smallest coin in Germany was a five pfennig coin, I think. Ours would be the nickel.

[Cameron]

Agreed, and collecting all the remaining penny's can be a job for the NDP...

[Canuck E Stan]

Suppose we did get a five dollar coin, with a "toonie" and a "loonie" representing the $2 and $1 dollar what would we call the $5 coin? A "foonie"? "cinqoo"? There's got to be a good name for this one. After trying three times, I'm sure the Feds will eventually do it.

[Rambler Man]

Yea get rid of the penny!

Then we can use all the leftovers in the mint to pay the federal MP's. That way they'll be too busy counting and rolling to have time left over to screw us.

Thats my 2 nickels.

[theloniusfleabag]

Dear August1991,

I wholeheartedly agree. The penny is a nuisance and I have heard rumour that on occasion (when the CDdollar was in the toilet) the penny cost more to produce than it was actually worth, rated against other currencies.

However, that would mean the GST would have to go to 5% or 10%. Tax earnings calculations and all those other goodies would have to all be taken to only the first decimal. Still, it could work, but it means a massive, across the spectrum standardization, that will require either incredible teamwork or untold billions of dollars in gov't expenditure.

[Riverwind]

However, that would mean the GST would have to go to 5% or 10%.

No changes are required. Simply require that all cash sales be rounded to the nearest nickel. The merchant would still submit 7% of gross reciepts and not worry about being shortchanged. Most transactions are electronic now anyways.

[shoop]

I recently read an article that the Mint has rejected the idea of a five dollar coin.

Market research indicated there would be huge public opinion against it.

[SirSpanky]

There was opp against the loonie and toonie too, yet my pockets weigh 3.5 pounds anyway.

[BHS]

Most transactions are electronic now anyways.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Indeed. I say replace all of the minted stuff with reloadable cash cards. The only reason for keeping hard currency is in case the electronic system breaks down, but at this point if the electronics break down we're all screwed anyway. Makes drug dealing and the rest of the black market economy that much harder to perpetrate as well (though I suppose that could be carried on in foreign currency).

[theloniusfleabag]

Dear BHS and Sparhawk,

QUOTE(Sparhawk @ Aug 22 2005, 01:11 AM)

Most transactions are electronic now anyways.

Indeed. I say replace all of the minted stuff with reloadable cash cards. The only reason for keeping hard currency is in case the electronic system breaks down, but at this point if the electronics break down we're all screwed anyway. Makes drug dealing and the rest of the black market economy that much harder to perpetrate as well (though I suppose that could be carried on in foreign currency).

No way. I shun electronic transactions like the plague. I use them for emergencies only. The bank alerted me to fraudulent activity regarding my debit card, (someone made a copy, by swiping it in a 'false reader' at a legitimate business) and had shut it down. Stuff like this is becoming more and more prevalent. Electronic transactions make fraud and robbery easier, not harder, and it costs both the comsumer and the merchant more. I only take cash or cheques at my business, (the cheques are 99.99% good, my customers are doctors and lawyers, etc, the only 'bad cheque' I ever got was due to an 'electronic screw-up' and was the fault of the bank!) "Cash is King", and always will be.

[cybercoma]

i regularly toss pennies around. i bring good luck to people everywhere.

get rid of the stupid things, they just weigh our pockets down.

[BHS]

No way. I shun electronic transactions like the plague. I use them for emergencies only. The bank alerted me to fraudulent activity regarding my debit card, (someone made a copy, by swiping it in a 'false reader' at a legitimate business) and had shut it down. Stuff like this is becoming more and more prevalent. Electronic transactions make fraud and robbery easier, not harder, and it costs both the comsumer and the merchant more.  I only take cash or cheques at my business, (the cheques are 99.99% good, my customers are doctors and lawyers, etc, the only 'bad cheque' I ever got was due to an 'electronic screw-up' and was the fault of the bank!) "Cash is King", and always will be.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I was talking about reloadable cash cards, similar like what are used for long distance calling. Limited use and finacial liability, to replace the small quantities of cash that I carry for use in place of my debit or credit cards.

FYI I personally dislike point-of-purchase businesses (I don't know if that's you) that don't have debit available and generally avoid them, even if I intend to use another method of payment. They kind of have a fly-by-night feel. It's like not having a webpage. My take is, if a business can't be bothered to make the little steps to join the information age, there's something wrong there. Just my opinion.

[August1991]

People use whatever form of money is convenient, and the fact that we have so many forms of "cash" available makes life easier. (Who remembers when banks used to close at 3 pm on Friday and there was no way to get cash until Monday?)

You probably wouldn't want to buy a house with cash or a credit card. And you wouldn't want to buy an airline ticket with a cheque or cash. In a crowded, smoky bar in the wrong part of town, credit cards are probably not wise. I tend to put everything on my credit card but I know people who swear by their debit card. Some people like to show a thick wad of "folding money" when they pay, others prefer to flash a black American Express card.

These choices though have made the job of the US Fed and Bank of Canada very, very difficult.

FYI I personally dislike point-of-purchase businesses (I don't know if that's you) that don't have debit available and generally avoid them, even if I intend to use another method of payment. They kind of have a fly-by-night feel. It's like not having a webpage.

Interesting. I once paid $1000 cash to a hole-in-the-wall travel agent in Athens and then he told me to "come back tomorrow for the tickets". Walking down the street after, I asked myself: "WTF? What did I just do?" But all turned out fine.

[Cameron]

What pisses me off are the retailers that are now charging $.30 to use debit..so I get dinged twice, by them and the bank, nice eh. I guess they can't figure out how to work it into their prices.

[August1991]

It is by small decisions like this that politicians can make countries rich or poor.

Based on various analyses, the economists estimate that keeping pennies in circulation when it appears people are no longer interested in receiving or using them, costs Canadians approximately $130 million per year in production, storage, transportation and various costs. "In a globalized economy such as ours, there are no small economies to help us reduce our costs and be more competitive", said one of the authors of the study. François Dupuis, Vice-President and Chief Economist at Desjardins' Economic Studies Department.

He also believes that removing the penny from circulation would not result in increased prices. "Cash transaction amounts would be rounded symmetrically to the nearest five cents. For example, transactions where the final price would be $9.98, $9.99, $10.01 or $10.02 would go for $10.00. Those of $10.03, $10.04 or even $10.06, would go for $10.05."

...

This data confirms the analysis of Desjardins Group economists who, in a study released today, (www.desjardins.com/economics), propose to withdraw the penny, pointing to other countries, such as Australia and New Zealand, that have already successfully removed their one-cent coins from circulation. In fact, New Zealand has even removed its two- and five-cent coins.

Caisse Desjardins

For English Canadian nationalists, abolishing the penny would have the advantage of making Canada slightly more distinct from America too.

[madmax]

What pisses me off are the retailers that are now charging $.30 to use debit..so I get dinged twice, by them and the bank, nice eh. I guess they can't figure out how to work it into their prices.

They did figure it into their prices. You are paying to use the service. Why should I use cash and pay your debit fee built into the cost of a consumer good?

You just knock the NDP earlier with them collecting pennies while you give away nickles dimes and quarters.

In the best quote of Bart Simpson.

SUCKER!!!

Don't like the fee, don't use the service..I am quoting many knowledgeable and opinionated sources here:-).

I feel old fashioned, but I use cash for 90% of my transactions. I like to cut deals. Cash is a very effective tool to make deals with. And those whom are able to make their own decisions get my business whenever possible.

Try that where possible, and use cash anyways if you want to save the service charge.

Lots of younger adults have been weened on ATMs and Debit. People used to using Debit are easy pickings and these Debit services cost the retailer as well.

At least you don't get a pocket full of pennies though.

[guyser]

You are paying to use the service. Why should I use cash and pay your debit fee built into the cost of a consumer good?

Should be the other way around, but wont be.

Cash costs more to the retailer than debit. should be charging cash users 30 cents.

Debit , once approved is in retailers bank account before the line is disconnected.

[Riverwind]

Cash costs more to the retailer than debit. should be charging cash users 30 cents.

They should be charging 3-5% on every credit card transaction as well. It find it so strange that retailers charge the most for transactions that cost them the least.

[August1991]

Why should I use cash and pay your debit fee built into the cost of a consumer good?

On the contrary, I think it is people who pay with plastic who subsidize those paying with cash.

Cash requires counting (several times) and large cash registers. It is heavy to carry and requires security trucks to deliver to retail stores. Cash makes it difficult to do accounting. The one advantage with cash is that there is no paper trail and so the "deal" you are cutting is probably a deal to avoid taxes.

For legitimate, tax-paying retailers, I wouldn't be surprised that the next innovation will be to refuse cash and accept only plastic.

I'd be willing to continue the use of an electronic penny. It is the physical penny that I think should be eliminated.

[since the old pennies are worth more as copper than as currency, they may eliminate themselves.]

[Slavik44]

I hope they don't intorduce a five dollar coin, I really dislike coins, my pants are weighed down enough as it is, I have no desire to walk around looking like I am missing my skateboard. I wouldn't mind gettign rid of the penny, I usually just give them away to people, I have no desire to have them in my wallet.

[geoffrey]

I have no desire to walk around looking like I am missing my skateboard.

Good call. I know it costs more, but I'd endorse a move back to 2 dollar bills at the least. I wasn't around during 1 dollar bill times, if such times ever existed.

[Remiel]

As long as prices are rounded up and down, instead of just up, I could get behind abolishing the penny. Otherwise, it's just another kind of tax increase designed to hit the little guy. What might be the more intelligent thing to do though, if they are going to take such a step, would be to finally legislate rolling tax into the price of an item. That would simplify the whole thing quite a bit, I think.

I kind of wonder why, if there is no penny, why not just revalue the currency by a factor of five, but I'm pretty sure the headaches involved in that would cost more than any benefit.

And no freakin' $5 coin! I don't care if its economically cheaper, its more of a headache, and stress = money.

[August1991]

Mr. Harper was asked by reporters yesterday whether the time has come to get rid of the one-cent coin.

"I don't know," he said. "I guess some days I find pennies annoying and I try and change them at cash registers for higher denominations, but that said, I'm kind of a coin collector from way back so I'd hate to lose the historic continuity of the penny."

...

"I don't know what else I can say," Mr. Harper added. "I admit it doesn't buy much any more."

G & M

The advantage of a coin over a paper bill is that the coin lasts longer. I think Australia uses plastic money and its bills last a long time.

[gc1765]

Get rid of the penny

Keep the five dollar bill

Give the athletes $0

I wouldn't mind getting the $2 bill back as well...

[geoffrey]

The advantage of a coin over a paper bill is that the coin lasts longer. I think Australia uses plastic money and its bills last a long time.

Their money is pretty neat, you can't rip it. They even have a hand up on Canada's funny money in design, pretty cool stuff.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polymer_banknotes