Wilber Posted December 4, 2018 Report Posted December 4, 2018 Outgoing Michigan and Wisconsin lame duck legislatures vote to hamstring incoming governors and attorney generals. https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2018/12/4/18123784/gop-legislature-wisconsin-michigan-power-grab-lame-duck American democracy in action. Quote "Never trust a man who has not a single redeeming vice". WSC
Wilber Posted December 4, 2018 Author Report Posted December 4, 2018 North Carolina electoral fraud Board of Electors refuses to certify election Quote "Never trust a man who has not a single redeeming vice". WSC
Shady Posted December 4, 2018 Report Posted December 4, 2018 17 minutes ago, Wilber said: Outgoing Michigan and Wisconsin lame duck legislatures vote to hamstring incoming governors and attorney generals. https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2018/12/4/18123784/gop-legislature-wisconsin-michigan-power-grab-lame-duck American democracy in action. What's your fascination with America? Do you pay attention to any other countries? Quote
Shady Posted December 4, 2018 Report Posted December 4, 2018 Just now, Wilber said: North Carolina electoral fraud Board of Electors refuses to certify election But there's no such thing as voter fraud. Democrats and the media have told us so! Quote
BubberMiley Posted December 4, 2018 Report Posted December 4, 2018 6 minutes ago, Truth Detector said: What's your fascination with America? Do you pay attention to any other countries? Shady, after years of whining about Obama's booming economy, you're really going to whine about people paying attention to the U.S. now that your clown president is presiding over the nation's demise? That's hilarious. Quote "I think it's fun watching the waldick get all excited/knickers in a knot over something." -scribblet
Wilber Posted December 4, 2018 Author Report Posted December 4, 2018 24 minutes ago, Truth Detector said: But there's no such thing as voter fraud. Democrats and the media have told us so! It's electoral fraud, not voter fraud that is being investigated. The board has four democrats and four republicans, the vote not to certify was 6 to 2. Quote "Never trust a man who has not a single redeeming vice". WSC
Wilber Posted December 4, 2018 Author Report Posted December 4, 2018 (edited) 28 minutes ago, Truth Detector said: What's your fascination with America? Do you pay attention to any other countries? This is the United States Politics Forum is it not? There are 215 pages of topics on this particular forum, I have started maybe two or three in over ten years. Edited December 4, 2018 by Wilber Quote "Never trust a man who has not a single redeeming vice". WSC
BubberMiley Posted December 4, 2018 Report Posted December 4, 2018 3 minutes ago, Wilber said: This is the United States Politics Forum is it not? There are 215 pages of topics on this particular forum, I have started maybe two or three in over ten years. They're embarrassed they supported a lying clown whose campaign team, national security advisor, and personal council are all convicted felons, so they attack you for even bringing up the topic of the U.S. now. It would be funnier if it weren't so pathetic. Quote "I think it's fun watching the waldick get all excited/knickers in a knot over something." -scribblet
JamesHackerMP Posted December 4, 2018 Report Posted December 4, 2018 And another topic turns into a troll-fest. 1 Quote "We're not above nature, Mr Hacker, we're part of it. Men are animals, too!" "I know that, I've just come from the House of Commons!" [Yes, Minister]
Wilber Posted December 4, 2018 Author Report Posted December 4, 2018 (edited) 22 minutes ago, JamesHackerMP said: And another topic turns into a troll-fest. It amazes me that outgoing governments can get away with this shit. In Canada, if you lose an election you start cleaning out your desk the next day, you aren't entitled to legislate anything. Edited December 4, 2018 by Wilber Quote "Never trust a man who has not a single redeeming vice". WSC
JamesHackerMP Posted December 4, 2018 Report Posted December 4, 2018 (edited) It's due to the fact that the president cannot "dissolve" Congress before the election (or a governor cannot dissolve the state legislature). The legislative branch does not go out of existence just because there's an election. If it did, it would give too much power to the presidency (or governorship of a state). The flaw of course is that it leaves a "lame duck" legislature/Congress in power. Some states have done things to their constitution to prevent this, some haven't. At the federal level, the President can only call the lame duck Congress back into session if there's an important matter to attend to. (But he cannot actually tell them what to do once they're sitting). As for the states, I guess it varies from one state to another. Nonetheless, he could possibly abuse the privilege. Edited December 5, 2018 by JamesHackerMP 1 Quote "We're not above nature, Mr Hacker, we're part of it. Men are animals, too!" "I know that, I've just come from the House of Commons!" [Yes, Minister]
Wilber Posted December 5, 2018 Author Report Posted December 5, 2018 2 minutes ago, JamesHackerMP said: It's due to the fact that the president cannot "dissolve" Congress before the election (or a governor cannot dissolve the state legislature). The legislative branch does not go out of existence just because there's an election. If it did, it would give too much power to the presidency (or governorship of a state). The flaw of course is that it leaves a "lame duck" legislature/Congress in power. Some states have done things to their constitution to prevent this, some haven't. Legislatures aren't constantly in session, they do take breaks. I can see outgoing legislatures as watchdogs until the new group is in place, but to pass legislation that restricts the powers of the newly elected is one of the most undemocratic things I have ever heard of in a supposed democracy. Quote "Never trust a man who has not a single redeeming vice". WSC
bush_cheney2004 Posted December 5, 2018 Report Posted December 5, 2018 7 minutes ago, Wilber said: It amazes me that outgoing governments can get away with this shit. In Canada, if you lose an election you start cleaning out your desk the next day, you aren't entitled to legislate anything. Sure...but in Canada...the PM can prorogue Parliament...and has done so for political purposes. Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
JamesHackerMP Posted December 5, 2018 Report Posted December 5, 2018 1 minute ago, Wilber said: Legislatures aren't constantly in session, they do take breaks. I can see outgoing legislatures as watchdogs until the new group is in place, but to pass legislation that restricts the powers of the newly elected is one of the most undemocratic things I have ever heard of in a supposed democracy. I have to agree with you there. But that doesn't sound like something that can happen (to my limited knowledge) under my state's constitution. And there's nothing in the federal constitution that would allow Congress to do to an incoming president what MI and WI did to their incoming executives. It's obviously a flaw in those state constitutions that needs to be repaired. Every constitution has stuff in it that they didn't think about, flaws that need to be fixed, and so forth. Before calling the United States a "banana republic" I'd look around a little more, first. Quote "We're not above nature, Mr Hacker, we're part of it. Men are animals, too!" "I know that, I've just come from the House of Commons!" [Yes, Minister]
Wilber Posted December 5, 2018 Author Report Posted December 5, 2018 1 minute ago, bush_cheney2004 said: Sure...but in Canada...the PM can prorogue Parliament...and has done so for political purposes. So what. Quote "Never trust a man who has not a single redeeming vice". WSC
JamesHackerMP Posted December 5, 2018 Report Posted December 5, 2018 1 minute ago, Wilber said: So what. Americans would find that a constitutional flaw. But it's one you have to live with in a parliamentary democracy, just as a lame duck Congress/legislature is a flaw you have to live with in a presidential one. 1 Quote "We're not above nature, Mr Hacker, we're part of it. Men are animals, too!" "I know that, I've just come from the House of Commons!" [Yes, Minister]
Wilber Posted December 5, 2018 Author Report Posted December 5, 2018 1 minute ago, JamesHackerMP said: I have to agree with you there. But that doesn't sound like something that can happen (to my limited knowledge) under my state's constitution. And there's nothing in the federal constitution that would allow Congress to do to an incoming president what MI and WI did to their incoming executives. It's obviously a flaw in those state constitutions that needs to be repaired. Every constitution has stuff in it that they didn't think about, flaws that need to be fixed, and so forth. Before calling the United States a "banana republic" I'd look around a little more, first. OK, how about some states act like Banana Republics. Quote "Never trust a man who has not a single redeeming vice". WSC
bush_cheney2004 Posted December 5, 2018 Report Posted December 5, 2018 1 minute ago, Wilber said: So what. Exactly...Canada's government and election system is so perfect. Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
JamesHackerMP Posted December 5, 2018 Report Posted December 5, 2018 We're not a banana republic. We have federal/state constitutions with some flaws in them. Name one country that doesn't. And if you say Canada, I'll reach for the bottle of maple syrup. Quote "We're not above nature, Mr Hacker, we're part of it. Men are animals, too!" "I know that, I've just come from the House of Commons!" [Yes, Minister]
Wilber Posted December 5, 2018 Author Report Posted December 5, 2018 Just now, JamesHackerMP said: Americans would find that a constitutional flaw. But it's one you have to live with in a parliamentary democracy, just as a lame duck Congress/legislature is a flaw you have to live with in a presidential one. A PM may be able to prorogue Parliament but that just prevents legislation from being passed. Quote "Never trust a man who has not a single redeeming vice". WSC
JamesHackerMP Posted December 5, 2018 Report Posted December 5, 2018 It also keeps an executive branch in power WITHOUT the legislative (parliament) to restrain it. Quote "We're not above nature, Mr Hacker, we're part of it. Men are animals, too!" "I know that, I've just come from the House of Commons!" [Yes, Minister]
Wilber Posted December 5, 2018 Author Report Posted December 5, 2018 1 minute ago, bush_cheney2004 said: Exactly...Canada's government and election system is so perfect. No it isn't perfect but it doesn't allow people who have lost their mandate to make or pass legislation. That at least is democracy. Quote "Never trust a man who has not a single redeeming vice". WSC
JamesHackerMP Posted December 5, 2018 Report Posted December 5, 2018 Just now, Wilber said: No it isn't perfect but it doesn't allow people who have lost their mandate to make or pass legislation. That at least is democracy. A flaw in a constitution doesn't make a country a banana republic, Wilber. Seriously, you're being a little jingoistic. Quote "We're not above nature, Mr Hacker, we're part of it. Men are animals, too!" "I know that, I've just come from the House of Commons!" [Yes, Minister]
Wilber Posted December 5, 2018 Author Report Posted December 5, 2018 1 minute ago, JamesHackerMP said: It also keeps an executive branch in power WITHOUT the legislative (parliament) to restrain it. But it can't change the law without parliament Quote "Never trust a man who has not a single redeeming vice". WSC
Wilber Posted December 5, 2018 Author Report Posted December 5, 2018 Just now, JamesHackerMP said: A flaw in a constitution doesn't make a country a banana republic, Wilber. Seriously, you're being a little jingoistic. If that flaw allows it to be governed like a banana republic? Quote "Never trust a man who has not a single redeeming vice". WSC
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