43% of Albertan's and 36% of the West

[mirror]

Name me one prominent Canadian who supports Western separation. Just one!

[B. Max]

Name me one prominent Canadian who supports Western separation. Just one!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Doug christy for one. However it doesn't matter. Those who don't, will soon find themselves in the minority. At that point their prominence won't matter and really doesn't matter now. What matters is that it is growing and reaching into every area of society.

http://www.canoe.ca/NewsStand/Columnists/C...09/1123621.html

[newbie]

Good old Link. I don't take much of what he says or Prof. Craig with any degree of seriousness. Like I said in another post, this "movement" starts to kick up a little dust every few years with Lib majorities or perceived blunders. I think what the polls reflect is just a little anger and frustration, not serious separation ideology. When push comes to shove, Albertans will reject any notion of isolationism.

[mirror]

Doug Christie. Now there's a wonderful inpiring symbol for a new country.

The reality is there are no prominent and credible Canadians who support this silliness.

[Hawk]

I think Canada should either make everyone truly equal or cut the bullsh*t, you can't claim you are for equality and then give a province special status. Nor can you claim you are for equality and then give native americans an enormous government-funded advantage over the rest of the population. That goes for any ethnic minority that has government backing for any reason.

That also goes for provincial equality, it goes for all equality issues. Western alienation is not a simple problem, and it isn't going to go away if the east just ignores it. Do you honestly think we care if you think it is a 'legitimate' cause compared to Quebec? I know I don't.

This is not an equal society, it is a society of hypocritical socialist elites and I am sick of it. If I wanted a Communism I would live in China, so Canada can either move towards a better system or I will continue to support a free Alberta.

Um...you don't want an equal society. You want a society where your particular segemnt of the population gets to take full advantage of the inequalitie sthat favour you, be it the oil that, through a total accident of geology, ended up under "our" dirt, or the colour of your skin.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Ha! To be honest, I don't CARE that Alberta is rich or not, that is NOT the issue. It merely helps my argument though, that Alberta could survive on its own. Even if we were as poor as Sask. I would still be for an independant Alberta.

As for oil 'ending up under our dirt' that is BS, Sask. is part of the prairies and has oil too but you don't see them with no debt =p Its more than that, and maybe someday you will realize this =)

I agree with you on one fundamental point though, Alberta should NOT get equal representation under the current system. Because, democratically, we are a minority. However, I don't agree with the current system. On top of that, I don't believe the current system works with Alberta period. Geographic and cultural differences are just too vast between east and west, therefore to save us all a headache either restructure the political system to fix that problem or accept that seperation is the only logical conclusion. Nobody likes being a slave for a master you have no say about

[Hawk]

Name me one prominent Canadian who supports Western separation. Just one!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

By 'prominent' you mean not from the West or Conservative right? Figures

[Hawk]

Separation will only remain an issue as long as the oil money holds out. After that, Alberta will be back asking Ottawa for increased transfer payments to subsidize farmers, and the corporate head offices will follow wherever the money is, be it back to T.O. or elsewhere.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Oh you mean like all that 'aid' that Martin promised months ago for flood victims? Yeah, that same aid that nobody has seen yet? There is a guy camping out on his ROOF in protest because he is unable to even live in his house. He lost over $200,000 worth of property and his insurance won't cover it, and the Feds still haven't sent any aid.. so far only the provincial government has sent aid, I guess you could legitimately ask 'why do we need the east, what have they ever done for us?' thanks to these types of situations =)

When someone sneezes in Quebec they get thousands, people lose millions in personal property out west and we are lucky if the PM even acknowledges such a natural distaster even took place.

Thanks but no thanks.

[mcqueen625]

Separatism never has an never will be a solution political disagreements - it can only aggravate them and create more conflict in the end. It only will start a vicious spiral as smaller and smaller groups of people demand there right to 'self-determination'.

We are already into that spiral you are taling about, and Quebec still keeps looking for things to be done theri way or no way, just like a spoiled child. How do you stop it when the more Quebec get's the more they ask for? It has become an never ending request for money, special provileges, provincial control over federal jursidiction, it's gimme, gimme, gimme, or esle we'll leave. The feds cannot seem to say the word "NO" when it comes to Quebec. THat probably has more to do with the fact that the last few PM's have been Quebecois, and they know that if Quebec separates, there goes their hold on power.

My perception is that what needs to happen is for Canada to get real with the Province of Quebec and start by giving them a taste of what to expect if separation ever becomes a reality. The feds could start with the closure of military bases and federal government offices. I'm sure if the people of Quebec was treated to such reality they would quickly see the writing on the wall for the Country called Quebec, with massive unemployment, and few prospects for new ivestments. I'm not so sure even France would want to invest in Quebec without federal government involvement because of financial risks alone.

[Black Dog]

Around these parts it's called coppyright infringement. However i've seen the article on other forums and it's 43%. However we've been told, by i expect those who have been told, that it's only 7%. If you listen to much radio over the last two or three years the amount of converts stepping forward is amazing. Even rutherford for a long time now has been afraid to bring up the subject because when he does the whole show takes off in a secessionist direction. There are now converted secessionist in the PC party of the klien liberals.

The 43 per cent figure has already been debunked as the product of a methodologically unsound push poll. As for talk-radio, I wouldn't put much stock in the views of the cranks who frequent the phone lines of shows like Rutherford. It's certainly no substitute for real evidence. Again: if spearation was such a hot commodity, surely the Separation Partyy would have garnered more than 5,000 votes in last November's election.

As for oil 'ending up under our dirt' that is BS, Sask. is part of the prairies and has oil too but you don't see them with no debt =p Its more than that, and maybe someday you will realize this =)

Saskatchewan is a have province these days.

Oh you mean like all that 'aid' that Martin promised months ago for flood victims? Yeah, that same aid that nobody has seen yet? There is a guy camping out on his ROOF in protest because he is unable to even live in his house. He lost over $200,000 worth of property and his insurance won't cover it, and the Feds still haven't sent any aid.. so far only the provincial government has sent aid, I guess you could legitimately ask 'why do we need the east, what have they ever done for us?' thanks to these types of situations =)

Under the current federal/provincial agreement, federal aid for natural disasters kicks in after a certain provincial threshold is exceeded. I don't think that threshold has been reached.

[B. Max]

Around these parts it's called coppyright infringement. However i've seen the article on other forums and it's 43%. However we've been told, by i expect those who have been told, that it's only 7%. If you listen to much radio over the last two or three years the amount of converts stepping forward is amazing. Even rutherford for a long time now has been afraid to bring up the subject because when he does the whole show takes off in a secessionist direction. There are now converted secessionist in the PC party of the klien liberals.

The 43 per cent figure has already been debunked as the product of a methodologically unsound push poll. As for talk-radio, I wouldn't put much stock in the views of the cranks who frequent the phone lines of shows like Rutherford. It's certainly no substitute for real evidence. Again: if spearation was such a hot commodity, surely the Separation Partyy would have garnered more than 5,000 votes in last November's election.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Of course you can prove what you say. Put it up there.

[Black Dog]

Of course you can prove what you say. Put it up there.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

The question was "Do you think Western Canadians should begin to explore the idea of forming their own country." Respondents are not being asked whether the West should “separate": they are being asked whether they should begin to explore the idea of forming their own country. There’s a considerable difference between “separating” and “beginning to explore the idea” of separating. In other words, the question's mealy-mouthed, indecisive phrasing indicates it is designed to elicit a high positive response rate. Put even more plainly, the poll itself is good for grabbing headlines and that's about it.

[B. Max]

Of course you can prove what you say. Put it up there.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

The question was "Do you think Western Canadians should begin to explore the idea of forming their own country." Respondents are not being asked whether the West should “separate": they are being asked whether they should begin to explore the idea of forming their own country. There’s a considerable difference between “separating” and “beginning to explore the idea” of separating. In other words, the question's mealy-mouthed, indecisive phrasing indicates it is designed to elicit a high positive response rate. Put even more plainly, the poll itself is good for grabbing headlines and that's about it.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Then they should have answered no. YES.

[Guest eureka]

No!

[Black Dog]

Then they should have answered no. YES.

Uh...the point of the poll question's phrasing was to elicit a high positive response rate. Do you know anything about polls?

[Montgomery Burns]

I found the website (www.separationalberta.com) pretty kooky and yet scary.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

What's kooky and scary about it?

[B. Max]

Then they should have answered no. YES.

Uh...the point of the poll question's phrasing was to elicit a high positive response rate. Do you know anything about polls?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I know that once someone is ready to consider secession, and when all the facts are considered it's pretty much a done deal. How do i know that, because i've been there.

[Cartman]

So you conced the statistical validity of this poll is on par with something from the pages of Cosmo?

Here is another on-line poll for you Black Dog. 71% of voters believe Elvis is alive and hiding in Vancouver.

http://elvis.meetup.com/363/poll/19867/

Personally, I think that this is more likely than the average Albertan thinking of considering of planning on the possibility of separating.

[Riverwind]

I know that once someone is ready to consider secession, and when all  the facts are considered it's pretty much a done deal. How do i know that, because i've been there.

Where would that be? The former Yugoslavia? Maybe East Timor? Life has been pretty miserable for everyone after those states broke up. I think Albertans value their properity too much to piss it away for years of economic and political uncertainity. However, many may think that prentending to support seperation will get some action out of Otttawa - that is hardly a 'done deal'.

[mcqueen625]

And that has basically been the story of the Liberal government over the last ten years or so. No compromise of any sort, not on budgets and taxes, not on issues like Official Bilingualism, SSM, immigration, gun control

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I beg to differ, but the Liberals did compromise big time on bill C-38 and the budget. They were able to use ideas from the ND party and got the Bloc vote. This was democracy in action, the way it should be in Ottawa. I'm glad we have a minority government, where parties have the opportunity to present their ideas. Harper did support the gov't budget but pulled back when unsupported allegations surfaced from Gomery. That was his choice to become involved, but he let bipartisan rhetoric and utterings from an unfinished commission blur his participation.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Where was there compromise on Bill C-38? From my recollection, this Bill was rammed through by the Liberals, NDP and the Bloc. Paul Martin demanded that Cabinet support the Bill as presented, and many other Liberal MP's were pressured into supporting the Bill. Neither the NDP nor the Bloc allowed a free vote, their MP's were instructed how to vote or risk disaplinary action from their leaders. Since the Senate is Liberal appointed and controlled they simply rubber-stamped the Bill on the way through, as normally happens in this useless Body of unaccountable, political hacks. Let's not also forget the Liberal appointed and unaccountable judiciary that started the ball rolling in the first place. This was far from democracy's finest hour, in fact we really have no democracy in Canada. What we have has been compared by some in the Canadian Free Press as a banana republic, with a dictator at the helm.

[Riverwind]

Where was there compromise on Bill C-38? From my recollection, this Bill was rammed through by the Liberals, NDP and the Bloc.

Since when is a bill supported by three out of four parties not considered a compromise?

[ssiguy]

I think Alberta separation is a real possibility and if they go then so will be BC.

Maybe Sask but I don't know about Manitoba.

Manitoba has always been more centrist in its views. Of all in the West Manitobans are the most likelky to say they are Canadians first and Manitobans second. This is also bared out in the poll where support for separation is lowest in Manitoba.

If, or should I say when, Quebec goes I don't think Alberta could stand staying with Ontario having more than half the population and GDP.

Tell ya one thing, if the feds try anything even remotly close to the NEP again, they would be gone by dinner time. Even now there is talk of nationalizing some of the oil industry. That support level is highest in Quebec at 74% and we all know how the national agenda starts and finishes with Quebec's demands.

[B. Max]

The list of grievances is already long and more than enough to warrant secession without any new schemes to steal more money out of the pockets of albertans.

http://www.albertaresidentsleague.com/articles2.htm

[mowich]

Western Alienation is a fact to many of us. The idea of the separation of our provinces from the ROC brings smiles to our faces. The best thing that could happen to such a movement would be the election of a Liberal government.

[newbie]

Western Alienation is a fact to many of us. The idea of the separation of our provinces from the ROC brings smiles to our faces.  The best thing that could happen to such a movement would be the election of a Liberal government.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Pretty radical for a first post. You should do well here.

[Guest eureka]

Newbie, you seem to overlook that the post is at about the level of the Aliens and Separatists. All their angst and all their grievances are expressed in that succint criticism of Canada.

It is their idea of informed, intelligent discussion.Come to think of it, it does express all the real grievances they have.