Tapes Might Have Been Edited

[THELIBERAL]

For the biggest CONSERVATIVE bias radio station in Canada to say they think the tapes were edited WELL HELLO!!!!!

And Harper defended Grewal!!! Harper may have just put the finishing touches to his political career. If this turns out to be the truth Mr. Grewal should be deported!

http://www.cfra.com/headlines/index.asp

CFRA producers have examined the .wav files of the tapes and offer their opinions.

Both believe the tapes have been edited.

Note: The following are the opinions of the producers and are not being presented as proof. Our producers are not forensic investigators.

Madely in the Morning technical producer Mike Murphy says that the first excerpt has two audible "clicks" where it appears that another piece of tape has been inserted. Murphy says that the clicks are visible by spikes in the .wav file (pictured above).

CFRA producer Barry Hayes says the background noise in the other tape could be proof of an edit. He say it appears that the part the Liberals claim was inserted into the tape may have come from another venue because of the difference in background noise.

Both said that the editing job looks "Amateurish". Murphy says that if he were teaching an editing course and a student turned this in, he or she would certainly fail the assignment.

[The Terrible Sweal]

And the tories are STILL hiding the majority of the tapes. What unimaginable sleaze!

http://www.macleans.ca/topstories/politics...ontent=n060269A

[ScottBrison]

And the tories are STILL hiding the majority of the tapes.  What unimaginable sleaze!

http://www.macleans.ca/topstories/politics...ontent=n060269A

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I'll bet the parts of the tapes they're hiding have Grewal and Harper talking about "Order 66" which is how they're going to exact a terrible price on the people of Canada for actually wanting personal freedom.

[Riverwind]

A credible source now claims that the tapes were altered:

Mr. Pausak is a physicist and forensic scientist who once worked for the Ontario government and now testifies in court trials.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/sto...NStory/National

It appears that Conservatives are no better than Liberals when it comes getting power. If Harper had the 'ethics' he seems to demand from the gov't he would have:

1) Asked Grewal to immediately release all recorded conversations (no 13 day delay)

2) Conducted his own investigation to ensure that Grewal was not hiding anything - kicking him out of caucus if Grewal refused to co-operate.

3) If the tapes revealed that Grewal was also acting unethically he should have asked Grewal to resign his seat.

Why didn't he? Because he wanted to manipulate the situation to maximum benefit. But I guess he will say it is justifed since he was only doing it to save the country from the 'corrupt' Liberals. So much for the moral high ground.

[August1991]

Saprhawk, sorry, I disagree.

We have a photograph of the PM holding a smoking gun over a dead body and you are noting the fact that, maybe, according to some guy, the photograph may have been cropped to exclude a chair in the background.

There is no question whatsoever that Murphy and Dosanjh, with Martin's knowledge, offered rewards for Grewal & Grewale to abstain. The rewards were clearly not secured. Grewal was asking for more security and I bet Dosanjh was thinking: "Who does this guy take himself for? Belinda Stronach?"

I think Murphy was less forthcoming because hew was only looking for an insurance vote or two. If Grewal's vote had been a tie breaker, Murphy would have been in there like a comfy, dirty shirt.

----

Don't worry Sparhawk, because none of this changes anything.

At this point, a plurality of Canadians (about 35%) have decided that they don't care what happened or what was said or what Martin did, they are going to vote Liberal because they don't like Stephen Harper and they don't like the NDP. (In Quebec, these people absolutely detest the BQ.)

Another 30% of Canadians are appalled by what has happened, think the Liberals are corrupt to all heck and have decided that they'll vote for Stephen Harper.

About 20% of Canadians hate Stephen Harper and will probably vote NDP, but some might vote Liberal.

Finally, there are about 10% of "Canadians" will vote for the BQ.

----

As Steyn said, we could see PM PM on video tape in a hotel room buying crack from a prostitute and the G&M would find some illumination expert to say the camera lighting was tampered with. More pertinently, Canadians would breathe a sigh of relief and polls would show LPC 42% and CPC 28% in vote-rich Ontario.

[Big Blue Machine]

Great, it's another Watergate. But this time, the sercetary doesn't have to twist her body to 'accidently' erase that 18 and a half minute gap.

[Shakeyhands]

Oh dear....

http://www.thestar.com/NASApp/cs/ContentSe...72154&t=TS_Home

Where is the Tory credibility now? This does not look good on Grewal, Harper or the party.. Harper should probably be wearing rubber boots whilst dealing with his MP's....

[Riverwind]

We have a photograph of the PM holding a smoking gun over a dead body and you are noting the fact that, maybe, according to some guy, the photograph may have been cropped to exclude a chair in the background.

Your analogy is hardly appropriate. Whatever you think if the 'deal' making it hardly the moral equivant of murder. It is simply a case of political deal making that is no better or worse than what has gone on behind closed doors with members of all parties for a long time. I am sure Harper has made similar 'promises' to any number of supporters which he will have to fullfill if he gets power.

Furthermore, the editing coupled with the delay releasing tape suggests a failing of ethics on the conservative side. There was lots of public talk of these tapes being evidence in a criminal charge - even if that does not happen the Conservatives should have known that any editing would be obstruction of justice and/or tampering with evidence - which are both criminal offences as well.

That said, the ethical failing of the Conservatives may not be such a big deal, however, they have been jumping up and down screaming about how unethical the Liberals are. Those who throw stones should not live in glass houses.

This was the first opportunity to the Conservatives had to show that they were different from the Liberals. They could have set a new standard for ethics in politics. Instead, they blew it.

[I Miss Trudeau]

There is no question whatsoever that Murphy and Dosanjh, with Martin's knowledge, offered rewards for Grewal & Grewale to abstain.  The rewards were clearly not secured.  Grewal was asking for more security and I bet Dosanjh was thinking: "Who does this guy take himself for?  Belinda Stronach?"

I disagree. The frequency of sudden stops and changes in background ambience (sometimes mid sentence!) combined with the ridiculously long time before they were released make this whole situation very suspect.

Just how long does it take to release 4 hours of tapes?

[bigdude]

June 2, 2005 - Bits & pieces, this & that:

I don't quite understand all the Ottawa-based piety about taping. Whenever I speak to an Ottawa-based journalist on the phone, I am taping it.  I also know that they are taping me, and that's okay, too.  In politics, when you are dealing with someone you do not entirely trust about something important, you should have a witness present - or, failing that, you can tape it.  So a Member of Parliament shouldn't tape someone?  Please.  Every moment of every cabinet minister's public utterances, and quite a few of the private ones, are discretely recorded by their press people.  Believe it.

This tape issue is a tempest in a teapot, and all the Liberals here are focusing on it, while all the Conservatives here are focusing on the behaviour of the Liberals.

[August1991]

Your analogy is hardly appropriate.

I think it is, but maybe the crack-prostitute analogy is more loaded politically. A truthful analogy would be the tape of a fireside chat, glass of scotch in hand.

Whatever you think if the 'deal' making it hardly the moral equivant of murder. It is simply a case of political deal making that is no better or worse than what has gone on behind closed doors with members of all parties for a long time.

This should not be.

This country can continue to be a sad-case banana republic, letting an increasingly corrupt party share out our natural resource rents. Or, we say no.

I am sure Harper has made similar 'promises' to any number of supporters which he will have to fullfill if he gets power.

I disagree. Strongly. But that's my opinion.

Rene Levesque changed the way politics operated in Quebec in 1976. I don't know if Harper could achieve that but as a minimum, like underwear, we should change gangs every so often.

----

If you think I'm too naively high-minded, then I suggest you look at Bakunin's thread in the provincial forum. The corruption in the federal Liberal Party has repercussions. It is not normal. It doesn't even work anymore.

You know what? I looked though that CROP poll today in La Presse and what struck me is that, despite the abuse of federalist Liberal politicians in Quebec, many people have a strong attachment to this place called Canada.

This country is in serious trouble, and the federal Liberal Party has serious issues. There, I said it. Maybe I'm wrong, or maybe you prefer to pretend otherwise.

This was the first opportunity to the Conservatives had to show that they were different from the Liberals. They could have set a new standard for ethics in politics. Instead, they blew it.

That's it, blame the Conservatives. Harper's clueless and not electable. He has a bad image.

Liberal voters are looking for any excuse or rationalisation to vote Liberal. They are holding tight to a fiction of Canada because the alternative is an existential crisis.

[Riverwind]

Liberal voters are looking for any excuse or rationalisation to vote Liberal.  They are holding tight to a fiction of Canada because the alternative is an existential crisis.

I don't understand your logic. Quecequers have absolutely no interest in voting for the Conservatives - for many of the same reasons that people in Ontario have. In Quebec, the voters turn to an anti-system party which has no chance of being in gov't. If Francophone voters were willing to vote Conservative then the Liberals would already be out of power. If some prominate Francophones joined the party I am sure the CPC brass would sprain their wrists ripping the objectionable social conservative policies out of their policy book.

In short, why do you blame people in Ontario for keeping the Liberals in power when the Quebec electorate has the power to throw them out but they choose not use it?

In fact, If Francohpne Quebequers switch to the Conservatives you would likely see the Liberal core support melt away in English Canada. I know I would for the CPC if they had a chance in francophone Quebec.

[The Terrible Sweal]

We have a photograph of the PM holding a smoking gun over a dead body ...

Rank nonsense. We have nothing of the sort.

There is no question whatsoever that Murphy and Dosanjh, with Martin's knowledge, offered rewards for Grewal & Grewale to abstain.

We have no solid evidence of that at all. We have evidence that Martin told them NOT to, and we have [tory tampered] evidence of them NOT doing that.

[The Terrible Sweal]

Liberal voters are looking for any excuse or rationalisation to vote Liberal.  They are holding tight to a fiction of Canada because the alternative is an existential crisis.

August, I really, really don't understand why you come up with this stuff. Even if you believe every allegation at the Gomery thing, all there is there is a cabal of back room players around Chretien. Bad to be sure, but nothing implicating the party at large or the main players in the government today.

[August1991]

Liberal voters are looking for any excuse or rationalisation to vote Liberal. They are holding tight to a fiction of Canada because the alternative is an existential crisis.

August, I really, really don't understand why you come up with this stuff.

If you don't understand me, then you don't understand the country that you claim to represent.

[Riverwind]

Liberal voters are looking for any excuse or rationalisation to vote Liberal. They are holding tight to a fiction of Canada because the alternative is an existential crisis.

August, I really, really don't understand why you come up with this stuff.

If you don't understand me, then you don't understand the country that you claim to represent.

August, please explain why it is OK for Quebequers to vote for a sovereigntist party that cannot be part of any government and then blame Ontario for not voting out the Liberals.

If Quebequers want the Liberals out then they should vote for a party that can boot them out. If you answer is, Quebequers can't vote Conservative because they do not represent Quebec's interest then please explain why Ontario should vote for a party that does not represent Ontario's interest?

Is it because Ontario has the duty to 'save' the country while Quebequers who claim to have affection for Canada sit back and do nothing? What really bothers me about Quebec politics in the last 30 years is that Quebequers seem to have forgotten that having a relationship is a two way street.

[Fortunata]

As Steyn said, we could see PM PM on video tape in a hotel room buying crack from a prostitute and the G&M would find some illumination expert to say the camera lighting was tampered with.  More pertinently, Canadians would breathe a sigh of relief and polls would show LPC 42% and CPC 28% in vote-rich Ontario.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Many Canadians who will vote for the Liberals do not necessarily think Martin has good ethics. They don't think Harper has good ethics either (which he has clearly shown he doesn't). They will vote for the Liberals because it is better than voting for Harper. The CPC need to realize that it is Harper that is the problem.

[kimmy]

That the tapes appear to be edited does make me think worse of Grewal, but it doesn't make me think any better of Murphy and Dosage.

Murphy's apparent belief that they could get the ethics commissioner to gloss things over for Grewal is a telling comment about the Liberals' mindset.

-k

[Technocrat]

LOL WELL WELL WELL WHAT DO WE HAVE HERE? HMMM DOCTORED TAPES AS VERIFIED BY FORENSIC AUDIO EXPERTS!!!!

Nothing like editing something to suit your own needs. No one comes out looking good on this one except of course the Bloc and the NDP. Jack Layton's looking better every day.

CPC blew any credibility they had now... i'd like to see em explain this one.

[The Terrible Sweal]

Liberal voters are looking for any excuse or rationalisation to vote Liberal. They are holding tight to a fiction of Canada because the alternative is an existential crisis.

August, I really, really don't understand why you come up with this stuff.

If you don't understand me, then you don't understand the country that you claim to represent.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Thanks for no bothering with any sort of substantive answer. It confirms to me what I think you're post is all about: Scurrilous politicking.

As for representing the country, I'm unaware of ever having made such a claim.

[The Terrible Sweal]

That the tapes appear to be edited does make me think worse of Grewal, but it doesn't make me think any better of Murphy and Dosage.

I.e. regardless of what the real evidence may be, you condemn them.

Murphy's apparent belief that they could get the ethics commissioner to gloss things over for Grewal is a telling comment about the Liberals' mindset.

Nothing in the evidence so far indicates anyone was willing to try to tamper with the commisioner's findings. Murphy mused about seeking an interim report. Whoop de doo. It was still up the the commish whether he'd give it.

[PocketRocket]

More than ever before in the history of our country, we are asked not to vote for the "best man for the job", but rather, for the lesser of two (or 3 or 4) evils.

Man, it's getting harder and harder to tell them all apart.

I wonder if there's a Green representative running in my area this year???

[I Miss Trudeau]

Unbelievable.. proof that the CPC will do anything to get into power, and not a single CPC supporter on MLW to condemn their actions. So much for the high ground.

[Chimera]

Unbelievable.. proof that the CPC will do anything to get into power, and not a single CPC supporter on MLW to condemn their actions. So much for the high ground.

As opposed to the Liberal high ground of doing anything to stay in power?

[Shakeyhands]

Unbelievable.. proof that the CPC will do anything to get into power, and not a single CPC supporter on MLW to condemn their actions. So much for the high ground.

As opposed to the Liberal high ground of doing anything to stay in power?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

You know, I have heard this claim over and over.. what exactly is it that the Liberals have done to "cling to power"? So far lets look at the facts:

They dolled back out some tax dollars for significant causes across the poorer areas and those that contribute the most

They welcomed a CPC MP that had no business belonging to said party

They exposed (albeit backwards, shows you how stupid Grewal is) another that would do anything to avoid a closer look at his dealings and demanded positions for he and his wife.

Doesn't sound too bad to me?