2nd Terrorist attack on a Country Music Venue this year.

[GostHacked]

9 hours ago, WestCanMan said:

So who do you think does appreciate your opinions? Literally 75% of what you say is untrue, so what kind of people listen to you? I can't even imagine what a conversation would be like with two people just re-inventing history so that they could bitch about things that never really happened.

No, we are not bitching about things that never happened, more on the line of bitching about what people think as to the 'why' they are happening.

 

2 hours ago, eyeball said:

Literally? That's a really unambiguous claim so prove it or stfu.

 

75%? Man for me it's about 95%.

[WestCanMan]

16 hours ago, TTM said:

They were chanting "the Jews will not replace us".  It is on video.  If you want to morally equate white nationalists and antifascists as Trump appeared to do, that's up to you.

I have never heard anyone use the term shekels in my life other than maybe two times, both in antisemetic contexts. It is not a common phrase (outside of white nationalist circles, where it's really common)

The star of david has a specific shape. Why did they use the recognizable "outline" of a star of David in such a derogatory context? No reason, just another coincidence...

The people who initially turned Soros into the evil puppetmaster caricatures were intentionally using the centuries old antisemitic trope of the "evil jew cabal manipulating world events behind the scenes to their own ends".  The right wing conspiracy theorists as a whole have since taken it and run with it.  

So every single person at the Charlottesville protest was chanting "The Jews will not replace us"? That's the first I heard of that, and I'll be shocked to find out that it's true. In my mind's eye I'm envisioning a few people trying to get that chant started somewhere and it fizzles out. Do you have a link to that?

And fwiw I definitely am equating Antifa with the white nationalists. They might have looked good by comparison in that specific place but overall they're a gang of angry, stupid, violent Dem pawns. Useful idiots. The Dems have a long history of having a violent arm, including the KKK.

Shekels is just money. Drachmas, bot, skibeebees, wampum, dineros, moolah.... whatever. I've even heard people refer to "a pound of flesh" in matters that had nothing to do with Jews. To be honest I only met a handful of Jewish people in my life out here and I've heard the word sheckels a lot. 

I've heard lots of random things about Soros, I don't know what's true and what's not. It's definitely true that there are wealthy people trying to advance the Jewish cause, just like with Christians, Muslims and every other group. That's what religions do.

I would think that Soros and Trump run in the same circles, so I would be surprised if Trump is way out in left field if he ever says anything about G Soros.

In any event, you have a bunch of unrelated, minor things, none of which are actually incriminating. You have to really want to believe it. If Trump didn't have Jewish grandkids and didn't support Israel so thoroughly I'd give this more consideration, but his pro-Jewish actions are epic and to say that he has anti-Semitic incidences is a stretch. The case against the Clintons and Obama is far more obvious.

 

[WestCanMan]

16 hours ago, eyeball said:

Literally? That's a really unambiguous claim so prove it or stfu.

 

OK, more than 50%. I didn't say 75.0%, I wasn't acting like I tabulated everything.

 

[WestCanMan]

13 hours ago, GostHacked said:

No, we are not bitching about things that never happened, more on the line of bitching about what people think as to the 'why' they are happening.

 

75%? Man for me it's about 95%.

Talking about facts and events is the way to go. 

If you want to talk exclusively about why people do what they do that's just speculation and completely unfair/ridiculous.

[eyeball]

3 hours ago, WestCanMan said:

I didn't say 75.0%, I wasn't acting like I tabulated everything.

 

Yes you did and yes you were and this has been your shtick ever since you started posting here.

You're like a big fish in a small barrel, impossible to miss.

Edited November 15, 2018 by eyeball

[WestCanMan]

1 hour ago, eyeball said:

Yes you did and yes you were and this has been your shtick ever since you started posting here.

You're like a big fish in a small barrel, impossible to miss.

Eyeball why does it even matter if it's 75%, or 50%, or even 33%? Shouldn't you be able to say "Nothing that I posted here is intentionally untrue"? Why do you feel like it makes your points more valid if you support them with inaccuracies/fabrications, or try to detract from other people's points by mischaracterizing them? Maybe you should reconsider your position if you have to lie to make it seem solid.

You have to admit, it's pathetic that you're squabbling over the exact percentage of "non-truth". Like "Yeah I know I lie, but I keep it way down below 40% of the time. Like WAY below. Usually."

[eyeball]

5 minutes ago, WestCanMan said:

Absolutely nothing.

 

[WestCanMan]

29 minutes ago, eyeball said:

eye surrender

 

[GostHacked]

3 hours ago, WestCanMan said:

Eyeball why does it even matter if it's 75%, or 50%, or even 33%? Shouldn't you be able to say "Nothing that I posted here is intentionally untrue"? Why do you feel like it makes your points more valid if you support them with inaccuracies/fabrications, or try to detract from other people's points by mischaracterizing them? Maybe you should reconsider your position if you have to lie to make it seem solid.

You have to admit, it's pathetic that you're squabbling over the exact percentage of "non-truth". Like "Yeah I know I lie, but I keep it way down below 40% of the time. Like WAY below. Usually."

Well it's like Trudeau was able to influence ... 75% 50% or 33% of the anti-semites.

[TTM]

9 hours ago, WestCanMan said:

So every single person at the Charlottesville protest was chanting "The Jews will not replace us"? That's the first I heard of that, and I'll be shocked to find out that it's true. In my mind's eye I'm envisioning a few people trying to get that chant started somewhere and it fizzles out. Do you have a link to that?

https://youtu.be/EWprMqe-gms

https://youtu.be/5GzXY902hbo

Plenty more. The "protesters" were substantially white supremacists. Once that was clear, most of the reasonable people went home

9 hours ago, WestCanMan said:

And fwiw I definitely am equating Antifa with the white nationalists. They might have looked good by comparison in that specific place but overall they're a gang of angry, stupid, violent Dem pawns. Useful idiots.

You are morally equating a gang of "angry stupid, violent Dem pawns" (dont disagree, other than the pawn bit) with white supremacists? A group who does some property damage and gets into the odd fight with white supremacists to a group and a belief system that is responsible for hundreds (thousands?) of deaths in North America and millions globally?  OK then.

9 hours ago, WestCanMan said:

The Dems have a long history of having a violent arm, including the KKK.

The KKK and white nationalists have been courted by the Republican Party for the last 60+ years.  That tie has been severed for generations

9 hours ago, WestCanMan said:

Shekels is just money ... To be honest I only met a handful of Jewish people in my life out here and I've heard the word sheckels a lot. 

In that case, I would be concerned about the company I was keeping ...

9 hours ago, WestCanMan said:

I've heard lots of random things about Soros, I don't know what's true and what's not. It's definitely true that there are wealthy people trying to advance the Jewish cause, just like with Christians, Muslims and every other group. That's what religions do.

Soros has become the default boogeyman for right wing conspiracists.  At this point if an accusation comes from a right wing source it is almost by definition not true. Fake News in the true definition of of the term

Regarding the history of the evil Jew puppetmaster stereotype, see https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Protocols_of_the_Elders_of_Zion and https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economic_antisemitism

9 hours ago, WestCanMan said:

In any event, you have a bunch of unrelated, minor things, none of which are actually incriminating. 

A pattern of behavior.  Personally I think he is just generally bigoted, but is courting the support of the true antisemites.  That's not better.

Edited November 16, 2018 by TTM

[WestCanMan]

23 minutes ago, TTM said:

https://youtu.be/EWprMqe-gms

https://youtu.be/5GzXY902hbo

Plenty more. The "protesters" were substantially white supremacists. Once that was clear, most of the reasonable people went home

You are morally equating a gang of "angry stupid, violent Dem pawns" (dont disagree, other than the pawn bit) with white supremacists? A group who does some property damage and gets into the odd fight with white supremacists to a group and a belief system that is responsible for hundreds (thousands?) of deaths in North America and millions globally?  OK then.

The KKK and white nationalists have been courted by the Republican Party for the last 60+ years.  That tie has been severed for generations

In that case, I would be concerned about the company I was keeping ...

Soros has become the default boogeyman for right wing conspiracists.  At this point if an accusation comes from a right wing source it is almost by definition not true. Fake News in the true definition of of the term

Regarding the disgusting history of the evil Jew puppetmaster stereotype, see https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Protocols_of_the_Elders_of_Zion

A pattern of behavior.  Personally I think he is just generally bigoted, but is courting the support of the true antisemites.  That's not better.

That was pretty sad to see that many people think and act like that. The sadder part is that there are plenty more of them who just aren't willing to show their faces in public.

I don't even get the part about "Jews will not replace us". That's a f'n nutjob chant if there ever was one.

I'll dial it back from equating Antifa with those guys, but just by one degree. Antifa was also protesting against police which is right up there in my books. 

 

The Republican party is right where they've always been, and that's in lock step with the constitution. No slavery, equal rights, low taxes, capitalism. Since the 1800's it's been that way. There's no courting of losers involved, period. That's just Dem speak. They didn't just magically do a 180.

 

There's literally nothing wrong with just using the word sheckels. I've never heard it used in a derogatory way before. This is the first. 

 

I don't see real evidence of Trump's bigotry anywhere. It's not in his policy, and his comments aren't that bad outside of the initial muslim ban comment comment but that was literally him overreacting to the pulse nightclub shooting. Having an overreactive US president has been a good thing abroad. Domestically it doesn't seem like muslim terrorists even want to attack America while Trump is President. 2 years without anything big. We've had our first two big attacks since Trudeau came in. It seems like they only attack when the government favours them.

Aside from that muslim comment , people act like it's a big deal that he said MS-13 are animals and Dems have tried to equate that with "all immigrants are animals". That's just another straw man argument. It's pathetic that people can say stupid things like that and CNN backs it up.

Shithole countries was something that 1 person accused him of, but I'll say it right here.... shithole countries are real. If you can kidnap 200+ girls and keep them hidden from the government for 2 years, you live in a shithole country. If there are enough terrorists to fight off your army, you live in a shithole country. If women have to wear certain clothing so that they don't get raped, and the police will just laugh at you, you live in a shithole country. If a woman can get sent to jail for taking off her hijab, you live in a shithole country. If Americans get to choose who comes into their country, they should be extremely choosy about who they pick from those places. 

[TTM]

25 minutes ago, WestCanMan said:

The Republican party is right where they've always been, and that's in lock step with the constitution. No slavery, equal rights, low taxes, capitalism. Since the 1800's it's been that way. There's no courting of losers involved, period. That's just Dem speak. They didn't just magically do a 180.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Southern_strategy

25 minutes ago, WestCanMan said:

I don't see real evidence of Trump's bigotry anywhere.

Courting the support of racists and antisemites at the very least...

(during the 2016 campaign)

CNN’s Jake Tapper: “I want to ask you about the Anti-Defamation League, which this week called on you to publicly condemn unequivocally the racism of former KKK grand wizard David Duke, who recently said that voting against you at this point would be ‘treason to your heritage.’ Will you unequivocally condemn David Duke and say that you don’t want his vote or that of other white supremacists in this election?” 

Trump: “Well, just so you understand, I don’t know anything about David Duke. Okay? I don’t know anything about what you’re even talking about with white supremacy or white supremacists. So, I don’t know. I don’t know, did he endorse me or what’s going on, because, you know, I know nothing about David Duke. I know nothing about white supremacists. And so you’re asking me a question that I’m supposed to be talking about people that I know nothing about.” 

Tapper: “But I guess the question from the Anti-Defamation League is, even if you don’t know about their endorsement, there are these groups and individuals endorsing you. Would you just say unequivocally you condemn them and you don’t want their support?” 

Trump: “Well, I have to look at the group. I mean, I don’t know what group you’re talking about. You wouldn’t want me to condemn a group that I know nothing about. I would have to look. If you would send me a list of the groups, I will do research on them. And, certainly, I would disavow if I thought there was something wrong.” 

Tapper: “The Ku Klux Klan?” 

Trump: “But you may have groups in there that are totally fine, and it would be very unfair. So, give me a list of the groups, and I will let you know.” 

Tapper: “Okay. I mean, I’m just talking about David Duke and the Ku Klux Klan here, but…”

Trump: “I don’t know any — honestly, I don’t know David Duke. I don’t believe I have ever met him. I’m pretty sure I didn’t meet him. And I just don’t know anything about him.” 

Tapper: “All right.” 

Edited November 16, 2018 by TTM

[Wilber]

Never heard of David Duke. Ya right.

[TTM]

45 minutes ago, Wilber said:

Never heard of David Duke. Ya right.

Trump interview in 2000:

NBC’s Matt Lauer: “When you say the [Reform] party is self-destructing, what do you see as the biggest problem with the Reform Party right now?”

Trump: “Well, you’ve got David Duke just joined — a bigot, a racist, a problem. I mean, this is not exactly the people you want in your party.”

[WestCanMan]

41 minutes ago, TTM said:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Southern_strategy

Courting the support of racists and antisemites at the very least...

(during the 2016 campaign)

CNN’s Jake Tapper: “I want to ask you about the Anti-Defamation League, which this week called on you to publicly condemn unequivocally the racism of former KKK grand wizard David Duke, who recently said that voting against you at this point would be ‘treason to your heritage.’ Will you unequivocally condemn David Duke and say that you don’t want his vote or that of other white supremacists in this election?” 

Trump: “Well, just so you understand, I don’t know anything about David Duke. Okay? I don’t know anything about what you’re even talking about with white supremacy or white supremacists. So, I don’t know. I don’t know, did he endorse me or what’s going on, because, you know, I know nothing about David Duke. I know nothing about white supremacists. And so you’re asking me a question that I’m supposed to be talking about people that I know nothing about.” 

Tapper: “But I guess the question from the Anti-Defamation League is, even if you don’t know about their endorsement, there are these groups and individuals endorsing you. Would you just say unequivocally you condemn them and you don’t want their support?” 

Trump: “Well, I have to look at the group. I mean, I don’t know what group you’re talking about. You wouldn’t want me to condemn a group that I know nothing about. I would have to look. If you would send me a list of the groups, I will do research on them. And, certainly, I would disavow if I thought there was something wrong.” 

Tapper: “The Ku Klux Klan?” 

Trump: “But you may have groups in there that are totally fine, and it would be very unfair. So, give me a list of the groups, and I will let you know.” 

Tapper: “Okay. I mean, I’m just talking about David Duke and the Ku Klux Klan here, but…”

Trump: “I don’t know any — honestly, I don’t know David Duke. I don’t believe I have ever met him. I’m pretty sure I didn’t meet him. And I just don’t know anything about him.” 

Tapper: “All right.” 

http://www.msnbc.com/msnbc/lyndon-johnson-civil-rights-racism

This isn't from a right-wing site. It's MSNBC.

LBJ came up with a decent enough strategy - he switched course and came onside with the Republicans and made the civil rights bill, which passed with bipartisan support. Up to that point he Republicans singlehandedly advanced the cause of slaves/blacks and Dems always voted unanimously against anything that helped them. The quote "I'll have them niggers voting Democrat for the next 200 years" isn't something that was caught on an audio recording but it encapsulates LBJ's position perfectly.  He used the word nigger a lot.

So you have a source that says two people in the history of the Republican Party tried to cash in on the resentment that jilted kkk members felt towards the Democrat party. And it's not that the Republicans ever presented bills or voted in a way to harm blacks, they just didn't go after the black vote. LBJ had it wrapped up. 

 

I didn't know who David Duke was until this election cycle, so I can't say who should or shouldn't. I know who Hillary's mentor is though, it's the former Grand Wizard of the KKK and the longest serving democrat Senator ever - Robert Byrd.

[TTM]

43 minutes ago, WestCanMan said:

http://www.msnbc.com/msnbc/lyndon-johnson-civil-rights-racism

This isn't from a right-wing site. It's MSNBC.

LBJ came up with a decent enough strategy - he switched course and came onside with the Republicans and made the civil rights bill, which passed with bipartisan support. Up to that point he Republicans singlehandedly advanced the cause of slaves/blacks and Dems always voted unanimously against anything that helped them. The quote "I'll have them niggers voting Democrat for the next 200 years" isn't something that was caught on an audio recording but it encapsulates LBJ's position perfectly.  He used the word nigger a lot.

50+ years ago (60+ in my previous post was bad math), Republicans got the majority of black votes (for obvious reasons) and the Democrats were the party associated with racist groups and black voter suppression.  Today Democrats get the majority of minority votes including blacks (for obvious reasons) and the Republicans are the party associated with racist groups and minority voter suppression.

A  lot can happen in 50 years...

43 minutes ago, WestCanMan said:

So you have a source that says two people in the history of the Republican Party tried to cash in on the resentment that jilted kkk members felt towards the Democrat party. 

I have an encyclopedia article with over 100 sources which documents a party strategy (or minority scolarly view, a grassroots movement) that lasted decades to go after southern white voters by appealing to their racism.  

43 minutes ago, WestCanMan said:

I didn't know who David Duke was until this election cycle, so I can't say who should or shouldn't. 

See my previous response to Wilber. Also:

CNN’s Jake Tapper: “I want to ask you about the Anti-Defamation League, which this week called on you to publicly condemn unequivocally the racism of former KKK grand wizard David Duke, who recently said that voting against you at this point would be ‘treason to your heritage.’ Will you unequivocally condemn David Duke and say that you don’t want his vote or that of other white supremacists in this election?” 

Normal Person: I condemn the KKK's grand wizard, and white supremacists in general. I do not want their votes

Trump: Please allow me to dissemble until you stop pressing me to give a straight answer

Edited November 16, 2018 by TTM

[WestCanMan]

1 hour ago, TTM said:

50+ years ago (60+ in my previous post was bad math), Republicans got the majority of black votes (for obvious reasons) and the Democrats were the party associated with racist groups and black voter suppression.  Today Democrats get the majority of minority votes including blacks (for obvious reasons) and the Republicans are the party associated with racist groups and minority voter suppression.

A  lot can happen in 50 years...

I have an encyclopedia article with over 100 sources which documents a party strategy (or minority scolarly view, a grassroots movement) that lasted decades to go after southern white voters by appealing to their racism.  

See my previous response to Wilber. Also:

CNN’s Jake Tapper: “I want to ask you about the Anti-Defamation League, which this week called on you to publicly condemn unequivocally the racism of former KKK grand wizard David Duke, who recently said that voting against you at this point would be ‘treason to your heritage.’ Will you unequivocally condemn David Duke and say that you don’t want his vote or that of other white supremacists in this election?” 

Normal Person: I condemn the KKK's grand wizard, and white supremacists in general. I do not want their votes

Trump: Please allow me to dissemble until you stop pressing me to give a straight answer

There’s no white supremacy agenda in the Republican platform, so whatever you’re dreaming up is pure bullshit. 

Its pathetic for Jake Tapper to ask Trump to denounce voters, just like it would be pathetic for Fox to ask Hillary to denounce supporters of Islamic State. And we both know exactly who they would vote for in both Canada and the US. 

[TTM]

1 hour ago, WestCanMan said:

There’s no white supremacy agenda in the Republican platform ... Its pathetic for Jake Tapper to ask Trump to denounce [white supremacist] voters

lol

Edited November 16, 2018 by TTM

[WestCanMan]

2 hours ago, TTM said:

lol

Obama wouldn’t even say “islamic terrorism”. Cuts both ways. 

 

[TTM]

13 hours ago, WestCanMan said:

Obama wouldn’t even say “islamic terrorism”. Cuts both ways. 

 

I dont see a denial there; in fact I see quite the opposite.  

[WestCanMan]

4 hours ago, TTM said:

I dont see a denial there; in fact I see quite the opposite.  

What I see is Obama failing to lead properly because he didn’t want to offend voters. Much in the same way that he refused to call for an end to rioting, looting and cop killing because he didn’t want ti offend his voters. Or because he hates cops and he is ok with the destruction of property. 

[TTM]

14 hours ago, WestCanMan said:

What I see is Obama failing to lead properly because he didn’t want to offend voters. Much in the same way that he refused to call for an end to rioting, looting and cop killing because he didn’t want ti offend his voters. Or because he hates cops and he is ok with the destruction of property. 

What I see is someone not able to defend the appeals to racism and antisemitism of Trump and the Republican party, and so is trying to deflect to a different topic

[WestCanMan]

57 minutes ago, TTM said:

What I see is someone not able to defend the appeals to racism and antisemitism of Trump and the Republican party, and so is trying to deflect to a different topic

Try to see the actual parallel I drew there. It wasn’t racist for Trump to refuse to disavow voters. It was pathetic. Just like it was pathetic when Obama did the exact same thing. 

Buildings were being burned down. Racial hatred was spiking. Cops were being killed. Obama was having BLM leaders to the whitehouse for lunch. He stood in front of 5 murdered policemen and linked the cause of their deaths to “centuries of racism, slavery and (the Democrats’ own) Jim Crowe laws” thereby making a martyr of their killer.

Obama didn’t do a damn thing to distance the Democrats from what was going on, he just kept fanning the flames. He even admitted that he’s racist. 

I can stay on this topic as long as you want.

[Wilber]

If Trump didn't know who Duke was during the eighties and nineties, he was living under a rock. Duke was big news in Canada even. Of course Trump was full of shit because he absolutely did know who Duke was.

 

1991

Quote

CNN’s Larry King: “Did the David Duke thing bother you? Fifty-five percent of the whites in Louisiana voted for him.”

Trump: “I hate seeing what it represents, but I guess it just shows there’s a lot of hostility in this country. There’s a tremendous amount of hostility in the United States.”

King: “Anger?”

Trump: “It’s anger. I mean, that’s an anger vote. People are angry about what’s happened. People are angry about the jobs. If you look at Louisiana, they’re really in deep trouble. When you talk about the East Coast, it’s not the East Coast. It’s the East Coast, the middle coast, the West Coast…”

2000

Quote

“The Reform Party now includes a Klansman, Mr. Duke, a neo-Nazi, Mr. [Patrick] Buchanan, and a communist, Ms. [Lenora] Fulani. This is not company I wish to keep.”

Quote

NBC’s Matt Lauer: “When you say the [Reform] party is self-destructing, what do you see as the biggest problem with the Reform Party right now?”

Trump: “Well, you’ve got David Duke just joined — a bigot, a racist, a problem. I mean, this is not exactly the people you want in your party.”

As soon as Trump announced his candidacy, his memory of Duke just disappeared. Trump lies so much he can't keep track of them, doesn't even bother because he knows his faithful won't flinch no matter how many times he is caught.

Edited November 17, 2018 by Wilber

[TTM]

2 hours ago, WestCanMan said:

Try to see the actual parallel I drew there. It wasn’t racist for Trump to refuse to disavow voters. It was pathetic.

So you were agreeing that Trumps comments were pathetic and pandering to White supremisists, my mistake.  Your initial post said it was pathetic for the reporter to ask the question, so you can see my confusion

3 hours ago, WestCanMan said:

Just like it was pathetic when Obama did the exact same thing. 

You would have to provide a specific example

3 hours ago, WestCanMan said:

Buildings were being burned down. Racial hatred was spiking. Cops were being killed. Obama was having BLM leaders to the whitehouse for lunch. He stood in front of 5 murdered policemen and linked the cause of their deaths to “centuries of racism, slavery and (the Democrats’ own) Jim Crowe laws” thereby making a martyr of their killer.

Obama didn’t do a damn thing to distance the Democrats from what was going on, he just kept fanning the flames. He even admitted that he’s racist. 

I can stay on this topic as long as you want.

You make the partisan mistake of thinking because I dislike Trump and Republicans I care particularly about Obama and Democrats ... I don't

Hyperventilating about BLM indicates you should get your news from more varied sources and perspectives.  At its heart it is drawing attention to the factually correct (if not politically correct, amongst some) statement that blacks in general, and unarmed blacks especially, are killed by police at a much higher rate than whites.  It is not about hating cops, although I'm sure some members do, just like I'm sure there is the odd cop that actually hates blacks 

Regarding Obama's speach, the full transcript is here.  Respectful of those killed, condemning the killer, acknowledging the racial tensions that led to the killings, and attempting to bring everyone together ... disgraceful!

I assume your claim of Obama admitting he is a racist is from these debunked misrepresentations and lies, if not, please enlighten:

https://www.factcheck.org/2008/06/obamas-dreams-of-my-father/

https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/coil-of-rage/