Environmental Scams!

[Don Jonas]

North America. Then it's exported to "third world" countries for disposal (and blame).

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Global_waste_trade

[betsy]

 

North America. Then it's exported to "third world" countries for disposal (and blame).

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Global_waste_trade

That actually support my claim.  

 

If the environment is in a dire situation,

do you think  we'd entrust the disposal and recycling of  materials (especially hazardous), to under-developed or poor countries that are most likely to be ill-equipped to handle such things?

If we're supposedly on the brink of catastrophy to the point of no return (listening to the screechy Elizabeth May)  - developed countries (who are mostly spearheading the green movement) surely show their grave and panicked concern in a very odd way.

 

Edited September 18, 2018 by betsy

[Don Jonas]

So your argument that we shouldn't do more to protect the environment is that if the environment needed protection we would be doing more to help the environment?

Now you'll say that's not what you said and nobody understands you. This is why I avoid arguing with teenagers.

 

[betsy]

 

So your argument that we shouldn't do more to protect the environment is that if the environment needed protection we would be doing more to help the environment?

Now you'll say that's not what you said and nobody understands you. This is why I avoid arguing with teenagers.

 

 Heck, that was quite a mouthful, convoluted first sentence you got there.  My eyes glazed over.  Hold a sec - gotta grab ClearEyes.  I wonder if it's only me.....

 

See?   You're not comprehending again.  

Oh boy......I don't have the patience or the time to explain every thing to you.  You can't keep up - you're on your own.   We're not in a juvenile forum. 

Bye Don.  

Edited September 18, 2018 by betsy

[betsy]

Anyway......dumping the waste in Africa or Asia....or anywhere else for that matter, doesn't address the supposedly dire situation we're facing!   Lol.  Whom are they kidding?

 

Btw, I find it repugnant that we give our garbage to poor countries.  Especially when we know that they're ill-equipped to deal with them.  It's racist....or culturally inconsiderate.  "Here, we've got all these crap that's polluting our backyard - take them and we'll give you money."

 

Edited September 18, 2018 by betsy

[Don Jonas]

I can make it simple for you.

Your OP says we shouldn't worry about plastic like straws and sandwich bags and that it's foolish to try to not use them.

Then you said the fact that people aren't doing much to combat plastic waste is evidence that we don't need to do anything.

When I was a teacher and had a paper with logic like that, I would have given them a D. If their writing was like yours, I would have flunked them. 

But then I taught in high school and you might not be there yet.

Edited September 18, 2018 by Don Jonas

[Don Jonas]

 

Anyway......dumping the waste in Africa or Asia....or anywhere else for that matter, doesn't address the supposedly dire situation we're facing!   Lol.  Whom are they kidding?

 

Btw, I find it repugnant that we give our garbage to poor countries.  Especially when we know that they're ill-equipped to deal with them.  It's racist....or culturally inconsiderate.  "Here, we've got all these crap that's polluting our backyard - take them and we'll give you money."

 

We don't give it. We sell it. We do that because we produce more than we can deal with. 

And yet you fight efforts to produce less.

Once again: logic fail.

[betsy]

 

We don't give it. We sell it.

 

 

Btw, I find it repugnant that we give our garbage to poor countries.  Especially when we know that they're ill-equipped to deal with them.  It's racist....or culturally inconsiderate. 

"Here, we've got all these crap that's polluting our backyard - take them and we'll give you money."

 

 

Unbelievable.  

Edited September 19, 2018 by betsy

[Don Jonas]

And yet you fight efforts to produce less garbage. 

[betsy]

Anyway, back to the topic.     Speaking of global waste trade, does this makes any sense??

How is this practice helping at all?

 

 

 

Canada's Dumping Its Trash in Another Country's Backyard

Once the plastic is separated from metal and glass, it is sold on the open market. According to the Canadian Plastics Industry Association, 83 per cent is purchased for processing in North America by privately-owned recycling facilities. But 14 per cent -- 39,900 metric tonnes in 2012, equal to 2,400 school buses -- is purchased by businesses that resell it overseas.

Environmental groups like the Seattle-based Basel Action Network (BAN) tell us that in developing countries the plastics are often burned, not recycled. Paeng Lopez, of the Global Alliance for Incinerator Alternatives in the Philippines, told us in his country the plastics and other waste are purchased by cement factories to burn for heat and power.

 

 

According to international environmental groups, tonnes of our recyclables are still shipped overseas, causing environmental and health problems in developing nations like China, India and the Philippines. And Canada's government opposes stronger international laws to ban rich nations from dumping their trash on the world's poor.

 

In developing countries, e-waste is usually brought to massive facilities where it is processed by impoverished labourers who have little protection against the toxins they are exposed to, according to BAN and India's Toxic Links organization. The electronics are burned to melt away plastic casings and get at the valuable metals inside, like copper and gold. Workers -- including children and pregnant women -- spend every day in clouds of poisonous smoke. Other hazardous materials like lead from the glass in old TVs and computer monitors coats workers' hands and seeps into groundwater.

The 1992 Basel Convention was designed to control the export of toxic materials from rich nations to developing ones. Exporting nations must get permission from the recipient country to ship hazardous waste. But even when countries refuse to take waste, Puckett told us shipments slip through because of poor enforcement by Environment Canada, and corruption among customs officials in the recipient countries.

In 1995, European countries proposed an amendment to the Basel Convention to ban rich nations from dumping any toxic waste on less developed countries. Canada is one of four nations blocking the amendment.

https://www.huffingtonpost.ca/craig-and-marc-kielburger/canada-manila-recycling_b_5452730.html

Edited September 19, 2018 by betsy

[betsy]

It`s just another industry!

[Don Jonas]

The more you read about it, the more it makes sense to try to reduce our waste, doesn't it?

[eyeball]

 

I'm telling you - environmentalism is the latest biggest scam!

Absolutely nothing will ever come close to the scam you evangelize.  Why fret about the condition of this planet when God has another one waiting up in Heaven?

[eyeball]

 

That actually support my claim.  

It better supports the claim we need to stop producing it in the first place.  This is why we shouldn't open up the Tar Sands to global markets - we'll have no control over the consequences once its out of our hands.

[betsy]

 

It better supports the claim we need to stop producing it in the first place.  This is why we shouldn't open up the Tar Sands to global markets - we'll have no control over the consequences once its out of our hands.

Weren't you reading?  

What's the point of banning tar sands? 

 

Before you answer that - you read my posts.   Something tells me you're missing the point here.

Edited September 19, 2018 by betsy

[eyeball]

 

What's the point of banning tar sands? 

The point you made.

 

I find it repugnant that we give our garbage to poor countries.  Especially when we know that they're ill-equipped to deal with them.  It's racist....or culturally inconsiderate.  "Here, we've got all these crap that's polluting our backyard - take them and we'll give you money."

Selling tar sands oil to less considerate countries is worse than selling asbestos - it'll only blowback at us in the end.

 

 

Something tells me you're missing the point here.

No, its pretty clear you're missing your own point.

Edited September 19, 2018 by eyeball

[betsy]

 

The point you made.

 

And?   Obviously, you didn't read the article.  And if you did- you're like the other guy - you better try to comprehend what it says, and get back to me when i asked, what's the point of banning tar sands.

 

I'll ignore you for now.  

[eyeball]

 

And?   Obviously, you didn't read the article.  And if you did- you're like the other guy - you better try to comprehend what it says, and get back to me when i asked, what's the point of banning tar sands. 

I no more miscomprehend the consequences of peddling our waste to inconsiderate nations than you.  I've simply extended the same point to our peddling oil to the same inconsiderate nations - it will have the same and probably worse consequences for our environment.

 

I'll ignore you for now.  

That's what you said the last time I underscored how ignorantly you insist on approaching everything.  It seems its for no other reason than to maintain a 180 degree oppositional stance towards me and the other guy every step of the way no matter what.  It's kind of creepy actually.

[betsy]

 

I no more miscomprehend the consequences of peddling our waste to inconsiderate nations than you.  I've simply extended the same point to our peddling oil to the same inconsiderate nations - it will have the same and probably worse consequences for our environment.

That's what you said the last time I underscored how ignorantly you insist on approaching everything.  It seems its for no other reason than to maintain a 180 degree oppositional stance towards me and the other guy every step of the way no matter what.  It's kind of creepy actually.

So.....what's the point of banning tar sands?  And all these other bannings that they pick-and-choose according to their whims?  Today - it's plastic straws! Tomorrow - meh, maybe it'll be cows - for all the fartings they do!

We are being treated like idiots!  And, a lot of us are just fine with that!

Edited September 20, 2018 by betsy

[Guest]

 

So.....what's the point of banning tar sands?  And all these other bannings that they pick-and-choose according to their whims?  Today - it's plastic straws! Tomorrow - meh, maybe it'll be cows - for all the fartings they do!

We are being treated like idiots!  And, a lot of us are just fine with that!

Banning the tar sands won't make any difference to climate change, and would do a lot of harm to our economy.  It's not worth it just to stick it to some corporations for an ideology boost, which is all it would be.

Nobody needs plastic straws though.  Or plastic bags, knives, forks, spoons, cups, etc.  It's a dumb idea not to ban them.

As for cows, the world would be a better place if we were all vegetarian, but I don't put that in the same doable category as the plastic ban.

[betsy]

 

Banning the tar sands won't make any difference to climate change, and would do a lot of harm to our economy.  It's not worth it just to stick it to some corporations for an ideology boost, which is all it would be.

Nobody needs plastic straws though.  Or plastic bags, knives, forks, spoons, cups, etc.  It's a dumb idea not to ban them.

As for cows, the world would be a better place if we were all vegetarian, but I don't put that in the same doable category as the plastic ban.

That's why they're simply picking and choosing......and being frivolous.   With the carbon or pollution taxation - that's just plain money grab!

  There's no urgency.

[DogOnPorch]

We pay carbon taxes so that Red China and India can pollute without missing a beat.

[eyeball]

4 hours ago, bcsapper said:

Banning the tar sands won't make any difference to climate change, and would do a lot of harm to our economy.  It's not worth it just to stick it to some corporations for an ideology boost, which is all it would be.

Nobody needs plastic straws though.  Or plastic bags, knives, forks, spoons, cups, etc.  It's a dumb idea not to ban them.

Why shouldn't the corporations that manufacture these things regard your idea as nothing more than a worthless economically harmful ideology boost? Especially since you're just as willing to sell tar sands oil to anyone and with no apparent care or concern about the environmental consequences?

The way to make a difference with the Tar Sands is to not ship it to inconsiderate nations where it will very likely be handled and utilized in the same haphazard and dangerous manner as the plastics we ship them. I also fail to see why we need to ban plastics if we can address the worst of the issue by refusing to ship it to inconsiderate nations that either don't care or can't afford to be more considerate towards the environment.  Its dumb to ignore an issue when we can easily do something about it.

Edited September 20, 2018 by eyeball

[eyeball]

1 hour ago, DogOnPorch said:

We pay carbon taxes so that Red China and India can pollute without missing a beat.

No we don't, the point of the exercise is to impose carbon taxes on developed countries so developing countries can catch up while we use those taxes to develop new technologies. Selling/sharing this new technology to developing countries will thereby bring everyone up to speed with regard to cleaner greener use of resources as quickly as possible.

Unfortunately no one imagined the right-wing conservative idiocy of the sort on display by the OP of this thread would have such an impact on this progressive approach to our planet's sustainable development - apparently funnelling wealth and power into a handful of already wealthy powerful hands was/is deemed to be more important or something.  Governments like ours should have been far more focused on ensuring that most of these gains went towards a more collectively beneficial end.

People in developed countries like ours now find themselves in the same position many wealthy classes find themselves - poised above a vast restless ocean of humanity that is increasingly discontented with being left out and left behind.
 

[DogOnPorch]

2 hours ago, eyeball said:

No we don't, the point of the exercise...etc.

 

 

Absolute bull cookies. China is quite capable of NOT polluting. As is India.