Ford eviscerates local GTA politics

[betsy]

23 hours ago, Sophia Jones said:

With 40% of the 52% of Ontarians who actually voted, the numbers of his supporters are not very high. You do the math.  Ontarians need to step up and stop this megalomaniac in any and every way possible.  Let's get on board with the 'we can't afford another Ford' campaign, starting right here.

No matter how you do the math - he did get the majority of votes. 

Lol, how many voted for Wynn???   Say that again?

 

Edited September 17, 2018 by betsy

[betsy]

 

If you actually listen to Horvath speak, and know what the ideology of the NDP are, you would know she is articulate and has a moral compass.  Her job is to make sure that there is social equity, to respect and support the working class -

What politician doesn't promise the same???

Yep - I know what NDP's ideology is:   socialism!   No wonder her policies for spending was a whole lot worse than Wynn's!

 

 

 

but I absolutely prefer a leader who leans in, listens and supports actual people -

For all the "talking with people" that she'd allegedly done........Horwath didn't listen to what people were saying.  She and Wynn were like high on something, and in lala-land! 

 

Horwath is tone deaf!

 

Majority of Tory, Liberal and NDP voters prefer spending cuts to deficits: Ipsos poll

https://globalnews.ca/news/4211249/ontario-election-spending-cuts-deficits-poll/

 

  She DID NOT listen to them   She DID NOT support what they wanted.   So, there!  

All you've got to do is look at that poll, and put one and one together:

Now we know why Ford won the majority!

Edited September 17, 2018 by betsy

[Argus]

 

If you actually listen to Horvath speak, and know what the ideology of the NDP are, you would know she is articulate and has a moral compass.  Her job is to make sure that there is social equity, to respect and support the working class - which ford knows nothing about, although he casts himself as one of them - and to do right by the rights and freedoms of the democracy we live in.  She hardly is offering "lots of stuff" (a ridiculous comment) but I absolutely prefer a leader who leans in, listens and supports actual people - not some bogus beer-drinking, truck-driving/gas guzzling moron such as himself.

Horvath trots out tired old socialist kant about taking money from the 'rich' and giving it to the poor. Basically, income redistribution is all she's got. Meanwhile she wants to sabotage the industries which produce the money she'll need to buy votes with. That hurts the working class more than helps them. The leftist refrain that those who want to 'help' by forcefully removing money from those who made it and magnanimously giving it to the poor is 'moral' is silly. Especially when it's largely motivated by a desire to buy votes so as to win elections.

[Argus]

 

I wonder where these protesters where when the Liberals were screwing over Ontario on a regular basis? 

You should answer that question.

 

If you cast your memory back to the 90's under Mike Harris, you will recal that people actually DIED under a government who would do anything to cut corners.  "Corners" such as clean water. 

Because Harris is responsible when a municipality gives the job of monitoring water to the drunken brother in law of a politician.

Saving money, and thus lowering taxes is why people vote conservative. People vote for the NDP because they want them to raise taxes (but not on them) and give them free stuff.

 

[Sophia Jones]

 

You should answer that question.

Because Harris is responsible when a municipality gives the job of monitoring water to the drunken brother in law of a politician.

Saving money, and thus lowering taxes is why people vote conservative. People vote for the NDP because they want them to raise taxes (but not on them) and give them free stuff.

 

neither of these comments make any sense - which is fitting with most views of the right.

[Michael Hardner]

 

Right wing media?

The usual suspects... The Sun... The Rebel... MLW...

[Michael Hardner]

 

So let them be reimbursed. Problem solved.

Has that been proposed ?  I only hear biovating from the ham-fisted premier...

[Michael Hardner]

 

How about any other costs they may have incurred?

Such as taking leave from a job... hiring a team... Jeebus... power doesn't come cheap or we would have poor people in power.  Yikes !

[Michael Hardner]

 

Yes, we know. Many others disagree with that sentiment, and some of them are not even deplorable.

Both Brian Mulroney and I are spinning in our graves right now that we agree on something.

[Michael Hardner]

 

Exactly my point. This is not about rights....it's about inconvenience.  

No, it's about the "angry moron" vote and how the biggest angry moron in the province can convince people to use the Notwithstanding clause because liberals.  I'm starting to doubt that he's even going to be able to cut expenses, which is after all the only reason he is in the office.  He might be unable to even get the budget under control if he is too undisciplined.  

[MaidMarion]

Doug Ford has no real experience as a leader of any kind, he has a pretty horrific reputation among many seasoned and knowledgable people in business and politics (including some of his own current cabinet members) and has already worked very hard so far to alienate millions - and he is succeeding!  Of 10 million Ontarians, only 2 million actually voted for this guy, and one can see from the protests at Queen's Park that people recognize that our own democracy is being seriously undermined by his self-serving "payback", if you will, to Toronto councillors - most of whom saw him in action as the obnoxious bully he is during his years as councillor - and the mayor - who beat him out for the job.  What a waste of time and money this whole circus of ford "governing" has already become.  He is on a slippery slope and will meet with nothing but pushback for the next 4 years - especially if his obsession with Toronto continues.  Anyone who supports his use of the notwithstanding clause must seriously question their own understanding of what this really means.  For all of us.

[scribblet]

Hmm..  that sounds familiar.    However, Ford was elected by a majority in the same manner other leaders are elected, it will be an interesting four years and no doubt the protesters busy.

[MaidMarion]

Doug Ford has fooled many people. In spite of the fact that he has no real understanding of what a respected leader looks like, which he has demonstrated amply since being elected.  In fact, he has no real experience as a leader of any kind, but does have a horrific reputation among many seasoned and knowledegable people in business and politics (including some of his own current cabinet members) and is working very hard so to alienate millions - and he is succeeding! 

As Martin Regg Cohn states in the Toronto Star, "Is he not now premier of all 13 million Ontarians — not merely those who cast ballots from his besotted base, or voters who held their noses? Is he merely leader of Ford Nation, or premier of our province?"  Of 13 million Ontarians, only a franction of that actually voted for this guy, and one can see from the protests at Queen's Park that citizens do recognize that our very democracy is being seriously undermined by his self-serving "payback", if you will, to Toronto councillors - most of whom saw him in action as the obnoxious bully he is during his years as councillor - and the mayor - who beat him out for the job.  And what is he doing pushing through legislation in the middle of the night - "stealing democracy" as one protester put it, while the city sleeps?  What a waste of time and money this whole circus of ford "governing" has already become.  He is on a slippery slope and will meet with nothing but pushback for the next 4 years - especially if his obsession with Toronto continues.  Anyone who supports his use of the notwithstanding clause must seriously question their own understanding of what this really means. His actions are a frightening admission of how little he knows about law, protection of civil rights and respectable civil discourse.  Wake up people. For all of us.

[Centerpiece]

 

Doug Ford has fooled many people. In spite of the fact that he has no real understanding of what a respected leader looks like, which he has demonstrated amply since being elected.  In fact, he has no real experience as a leader of any kind, but does have a horrific reputation among many seasoned and knowledegable people in business and politics (including some of his own current cabinet members) and is working very hard so to alienate millions - and he is succeeding! 

As Martin Regg Cohn states in the Toronto Star, "Is he not now premier of all 13 million Ontarians — not merely those who cast ballots from his besotted base, or voters who held their noses? Is he merely leader of Ford Nation, or premier of our province?"  Of 13 million Ontarians, only a franction of that actually voted for this guy, and one can see from the protests at Queen's Park that citizens do recognize that our very democracy is being seriously undermined by his self-serving "payback", if you will, to Toronto councillors - most of whom saw him in action as the obnoxious bully he is during his years as councillor - and the mayor - who beat him out for the job.  And what is he doing pushing through legislation in the middle of the night - "stealing democracy" as one protester put it, while the city sleeps?  What a waste of time and money this whole circus of ford "governing" has already become.  He is on a slippery slope and will meet with nothing but pushback for the next 4 years - especially if his obsession with Toronto continues.  Anyone who supports his use of the notwithstanding clause must seriously question their own understanding of what this really means. His actions are a frightening admission of how little he knows about law, protection of civil rights and respectable civil discourse.  Wake up people. For all of us.

You seem to be the perfect profile for someone who reads Martin Regg Cohn's columns. He's The Star's attack dog against all things Conservative. Look, I'm not a fan of Ford's personality but remember what the voters said. By giving the Liberals only 7 - count 'em - seven seats, the electorate sent a crystal clear message. Do you really think she governed for all 13 million people - by the way - probably only 6 million voters (Cohn has a habit of misrepresenting things)? They said - enough already - lets get back to basics. Ford has some very capable people to lean on. Let's give them all a chance - at least as much as was given to Kathleen Wynne who went ahead and privatized Hydro without having it in her platform - or Trudeau who lied about so many things, modest deficits and balanced budgets being a huge one. Why not pack away your outrage for a while........

Edited September 18, 2018 by Centerpiece

[betsy]

 

As Martin Regg Cohn states in the Toronto Star, "Is he not now premier of all 13 million Ontarians — not merely those who cast ballots from his besotted base, or voters who held their noses? Is he merely leader of Ford Nation, or premier of our province?" 

Yep.  And he's going to follow his mandate.    Streamlining the government  is one of them.  That's how it works.

 

 

and one can see from the protests at Queen's Park that citizens do recognize that our very democracy is being seriously undermined

 

Actually, it's those who try to undermine his authority as Premier by giving such nonsense rationale that, only a fraction of the 13 million voted for him - they're the ones who are undermining our democracy! 

Edited September 18, 2018 by betsy

[betsy]

 

 Of 13 million Ontarians, only a franction of that actually voted for this guy,

So?

I notice the same argument being given that just because not all Ontarians voted for Ford - and their numbers combined outnumber those who did actually vote for him - like somehow that means he hasn't got the majority.  He still does!

 

Well - the same argument will apply WHOEVER sits on that throne with the numbers we had from the last election!   Whether the winner is Wynn or Horwath - the numbers of voters COMBINED, outnumber those who voted for the winner!

 

 

Why is Ford the Premier by majority votes?

Let's compare how many actually voted for Wynn - and how many DID NOT!   Wynn hardly blips on the radar!    The Liberals even lost their party status! 

Let's compare how many actually voted for Horwath - and how many DID NOT!  The same "formula" you use with Ford also applies, does it not? Horwath and Wynn are still both losers, aren't they?

 

Edited September 18, 2018 by betsy

[turningrite]

 

Yep.  And he's going to follow his mandate.    Streamlining the government  is one of them.  That's how it works.

Actually, it's those who try to undermine his authority as Premier by giving such nonsense rationale that, only a fraction of the 13 million voted for him - they're the ones who are undermining our democracy! 

Betsy: If you think Ford's move to stifle Toronto's city council will actually save money, presumably you also believe that budgets balance themselves. (Didn't a winning politician tell us that? So it must be true, right?) In any case, the "authority" of governments in democratic societies is reined in by courts. It's kind of the way things are designed to work. Some polling has indicated many Torontonians support the reduction in the size of their city council. Personally, I don't think it will make much difference one way or the other. But polling results published in today's Toronto Star suggest that almost two-thirds of Torontonians object to the fashion in which this is being done. A government's behavior in a democracy can render its actions illegitimate in the eyes of the public. Ford is walking a very narrow tightrope in this regard although it appears he oblivious to this fact.

https://www.thestar.com/news/queenspark/2018/09/18/toronto-residents-oppose-fords-use-of-notwithstanding-clause-poll.html

[betsy]

 

Betsy: If you think Ford's move to stifle Toronto's city council will actually save money, presumably you also believe that budgets balance themselves. (Didn't a winning politician tell us that? So it must be true, right?) In any case, the "authority" of governments in democratic societies is reined in by courts. It's kind of the way things are designed to work. Some polling has indicated many Torontonians support the reduction in the size of their city council. Personally, I don't think it will make much difference one way or the other. But polling results published in today's Toronto Star suggest that almost two-thirds of Torontonians object to the fashion in which this is being done. A government's behavior in a democracy can render its actions illegitimate in the eyes of the public. Ford is walking a very narrow tightrope in this regard although it appears he oblivious to this fact.

https://www.thestar.com/news/queenspark/2018/09/18/toronto-residents-oppose-fords-use-of-notwithstanding-clause-poll.html

Irrelevant. Stick to the context of my quoted statement.

Whether you think he's making a mistake or not - that's just your opinion.   Unfortunately, you're not the Premier of Ontario.  Ford is the one who has that authority to make decisions.  He was the one who got elected by majority - the one entrusted to govern.

Therefore.......

People who are undermining Premier Ford, are the ones undermining our democratic process.

Edited September 18, 2018 by betsy

[turningrite]

 

Irrelevant. Stick to the context of my quoted statement.

Whether you think he's making a mistake or not - that's just your opinion.   Unfortunately, you're not the Premier of Ontario.  Ford is the one who has that authority to make decisions.  He was the one who got elected by majority - the one entrusted to govern.

Therefore.......

People who are undermining Premier Ford, are the ones undermining our democratic process.

Betsy: Well, aren't you being all high and mighty. In any case, no government in an actual democracy possesses unlimited power and/or authority. There are systems that do permit this and we generally call them dictatorships. Any leader who in a democracy governs on the presumption of wielding unlimited power and/or authority is a demagogue and a fool.

Edited September 18, 2018 by turningrite

[betsy]

 

Betsy: Well, aren't you being all high and mighty.

No, I'm not.  I'm just stating a fact.  It was Ford who was elected - not you, or me, or Wynn or Horwath.  And, certainly not Sophia.

Streamline the government, is in his platform.  He's simply doing what got him elected. 

 

 

 

In any case, no government in an actual democracy possesses unlimited power and/or authority. There are systems that do permit this and we generally call them dictatorships. Any leader who in a democracy governs on the presumption of wielding unlimited power and/or authority is a demagogue and a fool.

 

You'd lost me.   I don't know which leader presumes to wield UNLIMITED power.   Certainly, not Ford.

Edited September 18, 2018 by betsy

[Argus]

 

neither of these comments make any sense - which is fitting with most views of the right.

Maybe you just don't have any sense with which to understand sense.

[Argus]

 

Doug Ford has no real experience as a leader of any kind, he has a pretty horrific reputation among many seasoned and knowledgable people in business and politics (including some of his own current cabinet members) and has already worked very hard so far to alienate millions - and he is succeeding!  Of 10 million Ontarians, only 2 million actually voted for this guy,

Really getting tired of this dumb thing coming up every time a conservative politician gets elected anywhere. If you people ever had similar thoughts when an NDP or Liberal politician does something you'd seem less hypocritical.

[Argus]

 

Doug Ford has fooled many people. In spite of the fact that he has no real understanding of what a respected leader looks like, which he has demonstrated amply since being elected.  In fact, he has no real experience as a leader of any kind,

And yet he still got elected as leader - of a majority. What does that say about what the people of Ontario thought of the alternatives?

[Argus]

 

 In any case, no government in an actual democracy possesses unlimited power and/or authority. There are systems that do permit this and we generally call them dictatorships.

Or we could call them parliamentary democracies, as in the UK.

Edited September 18, 2018 by Argus

[turningrite]

 

Or we could call them parliamentary democracies, as in the UK.

Argus: When has a government in the UK intervened to change the rules of an election, local or national, that was already underway? As I've said previously, the very notion is an affront to democratic precedent and practice. I was heartened to in today's G&M read just such an opinion written by a law professor who notes that Ford's behavior is not merely about the notwithstanding clause but more problematically conflicts with firmly established premises of democratic practice and conduct that govern elections. In fact, she says, Ford's pending legislation to invoke the notwithstanding clause violates existing Supreme Court of Canada precedent prohibiting the retroactive applicability of override powers. 

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/opinion/article-doug-ford-cant-apply-the-notwithstanding-clause-retroactively-to/