US Missile Shield over Canada

[Fortunata]

It doesn't matter whether Canada is in or out. Being in would not have influenced USA decisions on what, when or where to shoot. USA shoots first and asks questions later.

We have signed a number of treaties with the USA. Any that the Americans have had issue with have been trod on and ignored. Why would this be any different?

Remember the border crossing incident a year or so ago? American police crossing our border without asking or even questioning their right to do so? One person dead. Not even an apology. This, when there is a protocol in place to deal with this procedure.

Sorry people, but what the USA wants it either takes or does without any second thought to anyone else. So, again, whether we sign on or not will be immaterial to them.

[kimmy]

Martin is fool to think that the americans would consult canada after he has said they won't participate. Can anyone really see the americans calling mr. dithers and asking him wheather they should shoot down an incoming misslie before it hits. He and the liberals have relegated canada to the category of irrelevant.

Only if they (the USA government) respected international laws which we all know they do not. Stop the insulting nick names; that is being childish and we were told not to play these types of insulting childish games.

What would the point of demanding Canadian consultation before using BMD? How stupid would someone have to be to imagine that the Americans would take "no" for an answer in any event?

*ring-ring*

"Hello, this is Paul Martin's personal assistant. This call better be hella-important, because the Prime Minister is giving an address to the First Nations Youth Athletics Development Committee."

"Howdy. This is Dubya. This is kinda urgent. There's some kinda nuke or somethin like that heading for New York City, and we can try and shoot it down, but we gotta act fast and the Premier there or whatever his name is has to give permission or somethin."

"One moment please, Mr Bush."

(pause)

"Hello, this is, uh, Paul Martin."

"Howdy. This is Dubya. This is kinda urgent. There's some kinda nuke or somethin like that heading for New York City, and we can try and shoot it down, but we gotta act fast and we gotta get your permission before we can fire up the BMD thingy."

"Well, George, I'd like to help, but the polls say that Canadians don't support BMD, so I'm probably going to say no. Sorry."

*click*

I mean, riiiiiight. What possible answer other than "yes" is acceptible in that instance?

Perhaps Ottawa would create a new BMD hotline. It would be staffed by a man named Marc-Andre or Jean-Paul or Pierre somethingorother, a long-time friend of the Liberal Party. He would be paid approx $180,000 a year. His job function would be to pick up the phone and immediately say "Yes."

-kimmy

[B. Max]

It doesn't matter whether Canada is in or out. Being in would not have influenced USA decisions on what, when or where to shoot. USA shoots first and asks questions later.

We have signed a number of treaties with the USA. Any that the Americans have had issue with have been trod on and ignored. Why would this be any different?

Remember the border crossing incident a year or so ago? American police crossing our border without asking or even questioning their right to do so? One person dead. Not even an apology. This, when there is a protocol in place to deal with this procedure.

Sorry people, but what the USA wants it either takes or does without any second thought to anyone else. So, again, whether we sign on or not will be immaterial to them.

That is pure speculation and something which you are only guessing at. Your very reasons for such a conclusion is an admission that at the very least the US doesn't take this country seriously and at the worst no one recognizes it's soveriegnty which comes from its ability to defend its self. Which it can not do. Even the danes have whacked off a piece of it and claimed it as their own. Although i would say since they signed it all over to the eskimos, let them defend it. Which would be an even bigger joke than the way this country is percieved with good reason.

[B. Max]

Martin is fool to think that the americans would consult canada after he has said they won't participate. Can anyone really see the americans calling mr. dithers and asking him wheather they should shoot down an incoming misslie before it hits. He and the liberals have relegated canada to the category of irrelevant.

Only if they (the USA government) respected international laws which we all know they do not. Stop the insulting nick names; that is being childish and we were told not to play these types of insulting childish games.

What would the point of demanding Canadian consultation before using BMD? How stupid would someone have to be to imagine that the Americans would take "no" for an answer in any event?

*ring-ring*

"Hello, this is Paul Martin's personal assistant. This call better be hella-important, because the Prime Minister is giving an address to the First Nations Youth Athletics Development Committee."

"Howdy. This is Dubya. This is kinda urgent. There's some kinda nuke or somethin like that heading for New York City, and we can try and shoot it down, but we gotta act fast and the Premier there or whatever his name is has to give permission or somethin."

"One moment please, Mr Bush."

(pause)

"Hello, this is, uh, Paul Martin."

"Howdy. This is Dubya. This is kinda urgent. There's some kinda nuke or somethin like that heading for New York City, and we can try and shoot it down, but we gotta act fast and we gotta get your permission before we can fire up the BMD thingy."

"Well, George, I'd like to help, but the polls say that Canadians don't support BMD, so I'm probably going to say no. Sorry."

*click*

I mean, riiiiiight. What possible answer other than "yes" is acceptible in that instance?

Perhaps Ottawa would create a new BMD hotline. It would be staffed by a man named Marc-Andre or Jean-Paul or Pierre somethingorother, a long-time friend of the Liberal Party. He would be paid approx $180,000 a year. His job function would be to pick up the phone and immediately say "Yes."

-kimmy

Don't forget that they would have to delay that until it was tranlated into both official languages.

[Fortunata]

That is pure speculation and something which you are only guessing at. Your very reasons for such a conclusion is an admission that at the very least the US doesn't take this country seriously and at the worst no one recognizes it's soveriegnty which comes from its ability to defend its self. Which it can not do. Even the danes have whacked off a piece of it and claimed it as their own. Although i would say since they signed it all over to the eskimos, let them defend it. Which would be an even bigger joke than the way this country is percieved with good reason.

My opinion is based on historic American actions. What makes you think they will change spots overnight?

The USA does what the USA wants to do. It doesn't matter who gets in the way. In fact, the USA has gone to great lengths to make sure little things like democratically elected leaders don't even get in the way. They take nothing or nobody else seriously when it comes to getting or taking what they want. What makes you think they will START taking us seriously just because we signed a little piece of paper (not forgetting other pieces of paper we have signed with them) that brings us politically on board with missile defense?

[caesar]

What would the point of demanding Canadian consultation before using BMD? How stupid would someone have to be to imagine that the Americans would take "no" for an answer in any event?

Because that is what laws are about. So that one country does not act like a dictatorship as the Americans are doing. Just be careful on calling people stupid. numb nutz. The world did not elect Bush leader of the world; not America. That is what we formed the UN for; which the USA takes pleasure in sabotaging any real effectiveness. Until we stand up and say no; we are just giving into the bullying tactics of the USA. Arrangements could easily be negotiated regarding using Canadian air space; but it should not be done by acting like a bully and ignoring international laws. Just cause Bubba is bigger and meaner than the others; doesn't mean he should be able to set the rules.

[Army Guy]

Caesar:

The world did not elect Bush leader of the world

Your right, he was elected by US citizens to be the leader of the most powerful nation in the world. With that comes a responsabilty that perhaps we don't understand....I'm not making excuses for anything the US does just that we tend to as a nation tend to throw rocks at our neibours while living in a glass house as well.

That is what we formed the UN for; which the USA takes pleasure in sabotaging any real effectiveness.

What is it that the UN is effective at....

Until we stand up and say no; we are just giving into the bullying tactics of the USA. Arrangements could easily be negotiated regarding using Canadian air space; but it should not be done by acting like a bully and ignoring international laws.

What bulling tactics....and what international laws have been broken...Perhaps the US is tied of paying our way in regards to defense or our international responsibilties. and just wants us to step-up to the plate....

DO you really expect the US to allow a Canadian city to go up in a ball of fire....because we as Canadians did not give the green light to fire a missile.... Nor do i believe that Canada will mind if the US launches a missile over Canada to intercept a onincoming missle to a US City.

[kimmy]

Because that is what laws are about. So that one country does not act like a dictatorship as the Americans are doing. Just be careful on calling people stupid. numb nutz. The world did not elect Bush leader of the world; not America. That is what we formed the UN for; which the USA takes pleasure in sabotaging any real effectiveness. Until we stand up and say no; we are just giving into the bullying tactics of the USA. Arrangements could easily be negotiated regarding using Canadian air space; but it should not be done by acting like a bully and ignoring international laws. Just cause Bubba is bigger and meaner than the others; doesn't mean he should be able to set the rules.

Seriously, caesar, do you think for even a microsecond that a US President-- ANY US President, not just Dubya-- would hesitate to use BMD if he had a chance to save lives, whether the Canadian PM agreed or not?

If the choice is between saving the citizens you're sworn to protect at the expense of offending your neighbor, or sacrificing those lives to avoid causing offense, it would be *criminal* to choose the latter.

If some US President had a chance to prevent a huge number of deaths by using BMD, he has to do it. That's his first obligation. If he doesn't do it, he should be removed from office and put on trial.

-kimmy

[caesar]

What bulling tactics....and what international laws have been broken...Perhaps the US is tied of paying our way in regards to defense or our international responsibilties. and just wants us to step-up to the plate....

Violating another country's airspace is grossly illegal. The USA is NOT paying our way regarding defense; they are generally delinquent paying their own way at the UN; then wonder why the UN cannot be effective????? Gee whiz wonder why they cannot operate without money hmmm???

Why should we "go along" on any defense measures that we do not believe is relevant or effective; just because the USA believes in it. Either way; any "collateral damage" will come down on Canadian soil; if we are part of this defense plan; can we complain???? The USA military is notorious for "collateral damage"

The USA with its aggressive acts around the world and its illegal invasions has angered millions world wide and brought the possibility of retaliation much more likely. The WTC terrorists did not enter the USA via Canada (as finger pointing claimed); they were mostly legally staying in the USA on visas; learned their plane flying techniques (minus landing) in the USA.

So far Kimmy; I haven't seen many lives "Dubya" has saved; I do read the figures of those whose deaths have come about. Iraqis and American and a few of our own "friendly fire" soldiers over in Afghanistan.

[Newfie Canadian]

And let the fallout begin...

Rice cancels Canada visit after missile decision

Acceptable snub or juvenile behaviour?

[Army Guy]

caesar:

QUOTE 

What bulling tactics....and what international laws have been broken...Perhaps the US is tied of paying our way in regards to defense or our international responsibilties. and just wants us to step-up to the plate....

Violating another country's airspace is grossly illegal

When have they done that....or are you talking in the future....to intercept a incoming missile...you do know the effects of even a small nuclear detonation.

The USA is NOT paying our way regarding defense;

Are you impling that we are paying our way in regards to defense....Canada backed out of most of it's NATO commitments over in Europe those responsabilities were taken over by the US and Germany....Canada openly neglects it's military because the US has agreed to come to our aid if attacked or threaten...Canada depends on the US or others for sea and air lift....the list goes on and on....

they are generally delinquent paying their own way at the UN; then wonder why the UN cannot be effective????? Gee whiz wonder why they cannot operate without money hmmm???

Before you start throwing rocks you should check on how well Canada is doing in regards to it's UN dues...Most of which used to be payed by having Canada's troops deploy on UN operations...that is not happening very ofen now and soon it will be down to less than 100 pers on UN operations world wide...

The US is the worlds policemen,like it or not...what does Canada as a mid power do on the world stage... you mean The US has pissed off the dictators,or other nations bent on undermining world peace or stability....

Why should we "go along" on any defense measures that we do not believe is relevant or effective;

It has cost Canadians nothing to date, and it would be an extra insurance policy in todays world of uncertainity...

So far Kimmy; I haven't seen many lives "Dubya" has saved; I do read the figures of those whose deaths have come about. Iraqis and American and a few of our own "friendly fire" soldiers over in Afghanistan.

Then you believe that the Iraqis were much better off under the rule of Sadam....over 500,000 of his own people have been disappeared...how many Kurds...were gassed with chemical wpns...It's easy to count the every death as someone who opposed the US operations... I think the proof is all the blue /purple fingers ...people went out to vote even when the terrorist threaten thier lives....they voted because they wanted change...they want peace...and peace has its cost...

[Digby]

I know america is not perfect ,but we would be alot worse off without them .

Them muslim dictators are dangerous to leave alone as i think most with any sence relize they want ISreal cleansed of its jewish people .

If guys like Sadam are left alone in hopes they will just remain killing their own people like Canadas left wing leaders want. I really think you would see nukes exploding in the middle east . Its easy to see that alot of muslims don't mind committing suacide . And yes they would try to attack Isreal and its 100 pluss nuclear weapons .

America is in a no win situation as the worlds police men . I would suspect America would rather not be the worlds police and take a liberal approach like canadas .

But knowing the danger this world is really in ,they have to continue doing what they do of removeing crazy muslim dictators .

What i find funny is it don't matter how many good things america does , they only get blamed . There is web pages on here claiming America made the tsanami with a nuclear weapon . The truth is they was there helping more then any country .

What lies some of these liberals make up . It should be criminal some of these lies.

Someday in the future America probly will be controled by liberals just like Canada . Then we will see why America has to remove Muslim crazy dictators . after the liberals get control and they stop doing it .

My guess would be we will see mushroom shaped clouds over the middle east .

[Black Dog]

Them muslim dictators are dangerous to leave alone as i think most with any sence relize they want ISreal cleansed of its jewish people

If that's the case, why does the United States continue to support despotic regiems in the Mid East like Egypt and Saudi Arabia?

Its easy to see that alot of muslims don't mind committing suacide

This kind of cutural stereotyping is unacceptable. To me, this is the same as saying "a lot of Jews love money".

America is in a no win situation as the worlds police men . I would suspect America would rather not be the worlds police and take a liberal approach like canadas .

No one's twisting the U.S.'s arm and demanding they walk the beat. They do so purely out of self-interest.

But knowing the danger this world is really in ,they have to continue doing what they do of removeing crazy muslim dictators .

Even the one's they helped put in in the first place.

[Black Dog]

Back on topic: I don't believe Canada's "no" to missile defense is a "no" at all. (Hell, it's the Liberals we're talking about.) Basically, Martin's announcement wa sto molllify critics in the oppossition and soothe a public that opposses the plan. But Canadian personelle and resources will go into this project through NORAD. This is a lot like Chretien's refusal to participate in the Iraq war, even as Canadian frigates plied the waters of the Gulf. ClassicGrit governance: talk from the left, rule from the right.

None of which changes the fact that missile defense is a massive boondoggle makes our sponsorship scandal look like chump change.

[Army Guy]

Black dog:

If that's the case, why does the United States continue to support despotic regiems in the Mid East like Egypt and Saudi Arabia?

These two countries are the largest of the Musilm countries within the middle east, and they hold alot of polictical power in regards to all muslims in the area. It makes sense to have good ties or relations with said countries.

Its easy to see that alot of muslims don't mind committing suacide 

This kind of cutural stereotyping is unacceptable. To me, this is the same as saying "a lot of Jews love money".

Perhaps if you rephrased it. most male muslims will readily give thier lifes for thier religion,or cause.

No one's twisting the U.S.'s arm and demanding they walk the beat. They do so purely out of self-interest.

If not them who...i don't see nations lining-up to even help ....And if we are not even willing to help, then what gives us the right to condemn them for trying...

[kimmy]

Why should we "go along" on any defense measures that we do not believe is relevant or effective; just because the USA believes in it.

If it's not relevant, then I guess it'll just never be used.

If it's not effective, then I guess there's no need to worry about a missile being shot down over Canada anyway.

Either way; any "collateral damage"  will come down on Canadian soil;  if we are part of this defense plan; can we complain????  The USA military is notorious for "collateral damage"

Which do you think would be more hazardous and costly to Canadians: a nuclear missile being shot down over Canada's high arctic, or a nuclear missile detonating in New York City?

So far Kimmy; I haven't seen many lives "Dubya" has saved; I do read the figures of those whose deaths have come about.  Iraqis and American and a few of our own "friendly fire" soldiers over in Afghanistan.

The question wasn't whether US invasions of Afghanistan or Iraq were good ideas.

The question was, if a US President has a chance to save a huge number of lives by intercepting a nuclear missile before it detonates, doesn't he have to try?

Any moral person would recognize that preventing the carnage is by far the #1 priority in a situation where BMD would be used. Trying to make the discussion about US foreign policy or friendly fire is a dodge.

-kimmy

[Black Dog]

These two countries are the largest of the Musilm countries within the middle east, and they hold alot of polictical power in regards to all muslims in the area. It makes sense to have good ties or relations with said countries.

b etaht as it may, if the U.S. were genuineliy interested in spreading democtracy in the region, those two client states, two key nations that are the furthest thing from democracies (one a military dictatorship, the other an absolute monarchy and both with depolrable human rights records), would be a good place to start.

Perhaps if you rephrased it. most male muslims will readily give thier lifes for thier religion,or cause.

There's nearly 1.5 billion Muslims in the world. To imply that most of them are suicidal maniacs is pretty sweeping statement.

If not them who...i don't see nations lining-up to even help ....And if we are not even willing to help, then what gives us the right to condemn them for trying...

You're basing your argument on a very debatable premise: that being that the U.S. is interested in making the world better purely out of the kindness of its heart. I believe the U.S. acts only to further its own national interests. In that sense, they are different from France or Russia or China only in their greater ability to project their power.

[Army Guy]

Black dog:

b etaht as it may, if the U.S. were genuineliy interested in spreading democtracy in the region, those two client states, two key nations that are the furthest thing from democracies (one a military dictatorship, the other an absolute monarchy and both with depolrable human rights records), would be a good place to start.

Your right, I've been to both countries and thier human rights can not compare to Canada's...that being said they are light years ahead of of most middle east countries...and they don't gas they own people with chemical agents, nor excute them by the hundreds.

There's nearly 1.5 billion Muslims in the world. To imply that most of them are suicidal maniacs is pretty sweeping statement.

Thats not what i said, i said that most male muslims would gladly give thier lives for thier religion or cause.

It is a sweeping statement, they believe that to die fighting thier enemies is a sure way to get into heaven...

You're basing your argument on a very debatable premise: that being that the U.S. is interested in making the world better purely out of the kindness of its heart. I believe the U.S. acts only to further its own national interests. In that sense, they are different from France or Russia or China only in their greater ability to project their power.

I'm not going to say they do not act in thier national interest, i'm sure every country has an agenda including Canada...and if that nation was forced to be the world's policemen i would say it was a benifit of the job..... to compare Russia's and China with the US is just a bit unfair....considering that Russia and China's whole objective was to spread communism around the globe through direct military action and regardless of cost...

[Stoker]

b etaht as it may, if the U.S. were genuineliy interested in spreading democtracy in the region, those two client states, two key nations that are the furthest thing from democracies (one a military dictatorship, the other an absolute monarchy and both with depolrable human rights records), would be a good place to start.

For what it's worth, Egypt is going to allow an oppostion in their next election.....

Egypt announces democratic reform

Egypt's President Hosni Mubarak has asked parliament to change the constitution to allow multiple candidates in presidential polls.

The surprise announcement followed US and domestic pressure for reform in the Arab world's most populous nation.

As has Saudi Arabia:

Saudi Arabia to hold democratic elections

Both nations have far to go, but it is a start......funny that the pressure is coming form the Bush adminstration in both cases.

You're basing your argument on a very debatable premise: that being that the U.S. is interested in making the world better purely out of the kindness of its heart. I believe the U.S. acts only to further its own national interests. In that sense, they are different from France or Russia or China only in their greater ability to project their power.

Do you think Canada doesn't look out for it's own intrests first? Or any country for that mater?

[Black Dog]

Your right, I've been to both countries and thier human rights can not compare to Canada's...that being said they are light years ahead of of most middle east countries...and they don't gas they own people with chemical agents, nor excute them by the hundreds

Egypt: Mass arrests and torture in the Sinai

Saudi Arabia: flogging used to silence protesters

I'd say these are failry indicative of Middle east countries. And I don't see how bringing up some of Saddam's crimes (the worst of which were perpetrated while he was buddy-buddy with the U.S. of A) lets these guys off the hook.

Thats not what i said, i said that most male muslims would gladly give thier lives for thier religion or cause.

It is a sweeping statement, they believe that to die fighting thier enemies is a sure way to get into heaven...

I guess by the same token, one can assume most American (or Canadian, for that matter) men are happy to die for their country given how many volunteer for their armed forces.

to compare Russia's and China with the US is just a bit unfair....considering that Russia and China's whole objective was to spread communism around the globe through direct military action and regardless of cost...

See, to me, the U.S's motives are just as suspicious, even if they are being conducted under the banner of "spreading democracy". IMV, spreading democracy requires a much more arms-length relationship with the countries that need to be democratized. In other words, the west should stop supporting repressive regimes simply because it suits their interests to do so and start gioving support to home-grown democratic movements. The world needs true democracy, not some sembelance thereof who's true puropose is to advance a foreign cause.

Do you think Canada doesn't look out for it's own intrests first? Or any country for that mater?

That's my point. The U.S is not some benign, selfless nation just looking to teach the world to sing in perfect harmony, but a nation with powerful interests and given to using realpolitik to ensure its ends are met.

[Stoker]

That's my point. The U.S is not some benign, selfless nation just looking to teach the world to sing in perfect harmony, but a nation with powerful interests and given to using realpolitik to ensure its ends are met.

I agree one hundred percent with your point, but the best intrests in the case of the current adminstration seem to be to protect the United States and it's intrests through the destruction of all threats to it and the ensuing spread of democracy so these threats won't remerge in the present or future.

[Army Guy]

Black dog:

I'd say these are failry indicative of Middle east countries. And I don't see how bringing up some of Saddam's crimes (the worst of which were perpetrated while he was buddy-buddy with the U.S. of A) lets these guys off the hook.

In regards to thier common laws..true as most are taken from thier Koran or bible....whipping,cutting off of hands are all in thier common laws...

The Gassing of kurds happened between the Gulf wars, the disappearance of thousands happen before,during and after the gulf war... The hundreds of public excutions that happened in Afgan were a dialy event,held in a sports arenas for all to veiw.... it is these acts that is not happening in Suadi, or Egypt...

I agree with you...and there is presure being brought to bear in getting them to improve the human rights record...and it will take some time....

I guess by the same token, one can assume most American (or Canadian, for that matter) men are happy to die for their country given how many volunteer for their armed forces.

Give me a break...Canada has a military force of 53,000 out of 32 million people...besides most join the military for the adventure, the idea that it is cool to go to war...it is after that all veterns who have experiance war will tell you it is "HELL" for the lack of a better description.

Muslims reason are religous and are based on hate...

[Iknowbest]

I noticed that there are a few statements posted regarding the United Nations and Canada's terrible decision on the missile shield for North America.

I used to work in the Federal Govenrment, had an office in Brussels in Nato, had offices in every bunker in Canada and had a lot to do with North American Security positions.

Only the village idiot would be against using common sense to ensure the physical security of the North American Continent. One co-operates with their neighbour to ensure that this takes place. The Canadian Government under the Liberal Party blew it big time and it is going to cost us Canadians. Hello injunction against Canadian beef cattle invoked yesterday in Montana. Softwood products another and there is more to come.

As for the United Nations, what a joke they are. That orgainzation is full of has been politicians from around the world, over half of them corrupt, many of them not paying their fair share to support the UN and Canada is almost at the bottom of that list, only Iceland and Denmark are ahead. Canada is an embarrassment to Canadians thanks to our sorry excuse for a LIberal Govenrment.

The UN passes motion after motion after motion and what good are these motions? They are no good and non enforceable but it gives those has been politicians something to bide their time. Are they intelligent? No! For example the Iraq oil for medicinal supplies for the Iraqi people. Ha Ha Ha what a joke but Saddam loved it because it over flowed his American Money Bank Accounts many of which are still active in hiring criminals and murderers, purchasing cars and explosives to blow up innocent people in Iraq .

How about Suddan? How about Iran and North Korea? And are there more yes indeed.

A big part of the problem is lack of factual information so they use misinformation to misinform intentionally the population who may or may not be interested in reading it.

The majority of Canadian Citizens who are so over taxed by this corrupt government are spending most of their time trying to make enough money to survive rather than care about the securitry of North America.

In short Canada sucks !!

[Iknowbest]

Good Grief this is getting worse. Please real Canadians get RID of this stupid communistic style liberal party.

No sooner did I make the post about the court injunction in Montana against importing Canadian Beef when I received a phone call from someone who works for Hershey Canada in Smiths Falls an american owned company that employs 750 people who said that Hershey is thinking of closing down and hiring 750 Americans in the USA. There are two other American owned companies currently located inSmiths Falls that employs 600 Canadians are also think of shutting down. Why? Because of this idiotic pinko Liberal Government.

Do you folks realize that 87% of all products manufactured in Canada by Canadian citizens are exported for sale to the USA? How about the Boeing plant in Arnprior Ontario and on and on and on.

If the American Companies start closing down their plants in Canada then Haiti would be a great country to migrate to because their standard of living will be superior to ours.

So Cattle Ranchers out west, grain growers out west, small, medium and large American owned manufacturing plants located in Vancouver, Edmonton, Calgary, Regina, Winnipeg, a load of small towns across Ontario and the Maritimes what will those employees do when not if Americans say screw you you dumbass Canadians we will look after ourselves first, bye bye.

I would be happy to see Bombardier disappear because they receive $1.2Billion of our tax dollars every two years and never every repay it.

[Guest eureka]

once you seem to be against "using common sense," what position in the "village" does that qualify you for? You also seem to be against the use of reason and factual information.

BMD is more about Bush and the industrial/military complex than anything else: just like Iraq was more about oil interests than democracy - far more.

As for our having a "free ride", as the Wall Street Journal put it, there is no such thing. America does not defend Canada: it defends only itself and does not do a very good job of that.

America did have a free ride for about one century after its birth. The British navy saw to it that America was safe and America had no military to speak of. Then, America had a "free ride" for the first years of the two World Wars in which time, it enriched irself at the expense of Britain and the other Allies.

Why would we join Bush in his personal enrichment projects? Why would we join in presipitating a new Arms Race? Should we also join Bush in abrogating the other international agreements made for the safety of the world? The Landmines Treaty; The International Court?

Also, Iknowbest(?), if you want to criticise the Liberal party, do it intelligently.