The Death of Nationalism

[paxamericana]

I am in the early stages of forming my theory and would like some constructive input. I believe that with the advent of technology (communication, transportation)and its ability to breach international, geographic physical barriers, how soon will we see the death of a national identity. Is it already here and the rise in nationalism is the few final death throws against the dying of the light? 

[Argus]

Nationalism is not only not dead it is enjoying an enormous resurgence throughout the world. Including in the US.

 

[bush_cheney2004]

Justin Trudeau announced the "death" of nationalism in his "post-national" Canada.

Well guess what Trudeau is stoking today against Trump's tariffs ?    Canadian nationalism.....

[paxamericana]

1 hour ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

Justin Trudeau announced the "death" of nationalism in his "post-national" Canada.

Well guess what Trudeau is stoking today against Trump's tariffs ?    Canadian nationalism.....

Yes it is ironic that in order to fight nationalism you would have to adopt nationalist identity. It is even more amusing that Canada's national identity is not American.

Edited July 2, 2018 by paxrom

[turningrite]

15 hours ago, paxrom said:

I am in the early stages of forming my theory and would like some constructive input. I believe that with the advent of technology (communication, transportation)and its ability to breach international, geographic physical barriers, how soon will we see the death of a national identity. Is it already here and the rise in nationalism is the few final death throws against the dying of the light? 

I'm not sure about the validity of your theory. In times of widespread change and/or generalized strife, humans have a remarkable tendency to impose boundaries and erect barriers within which they believe they can exert some degree of stability and control. It's interesting to note that modern nationalism arose alongside the Industrial Revolution as mass communications and modern transportation became more commonplace. It appears that in many parts of the world humans are doubling down on identity-focused tribalism, a situation that poses clear challenges for Western democracies, whose citizens have over the past few generations been conditioned to believe these differences would vanish as interdependence and acceptance of "diversity" emerged under a globalized ethos. This appears to have been and remains more wishful thinking than reality.

Edited July 2, 2018 by turningrite

[Scott Mayers]

13 hours ago, paxrom said:

I am in the early stages of forming my theory and would like some constructive input. I believe that with the advent of technology (communication, transportation)and its ability to breach international, geographic physical barriers, how soon will we see the death of a national identity. Is it already here and the rise in nationalism is the few final death throws against the dying of the light? 

If I understand you correctly, are you asking whether opening 'ports' without limitations to external natural borders is dangerous to the internal  and effective functioning of a system, like a country? AND, you may be theorizing that the cause is technology, such as the nature of the world to be able to freely and easily transport information (as data, including real things) too easily?

"Nation" to the old world is usually about a collective people or tribe; "Nation" to many in the United States is the collection of ANY people within a physical border. The word, "Nation", in Canada, by the Natives means the old-world defintion, that means one's tribe, without concern about WHERE they are. This old-world definition is what the "Nazis" meant. "Nation" in the U.S. refers usually to both the people of any accepted group or individual, mapped to the country or land in which those people reside. 

I have to ask which you mean or both if you are speaking of the logical concept of "us versus them" regardless of which meaning. Some think that people are normally linked through their culture and ethnicity such that their "nation" is secure only by keeping themselves pure as a family or tribe. This is what the original 'fascist' concept comes from: from "fasces", meaning a bundle of sticks that tribes everywhere argued to mean that a single stick alone is weak and breakable while a bundle or many weak sticks acts strong. 

Are you interpreting that strength of any collection of people as a 'nation' is weakened by enabling outside influences that act to isolate others? Are you favoring a need to isolate as collectives with parts (individuals) that should be in sync with each other?

 

[JamesHackerMP]

What you're talking about is sovereignty of nation-states essentially? Nationalism is a political philosophy of the formation of nation-states encompassing areas with common language/cultures. Like the "liberal nationalism" of the 19th century in europe.

[bush_cheney2004]

37 minutes ago, JamesHackerMP said:

What you're talking about is sovereignty of nation-states essentially?

 

Just one of several aspects to nation states....nationalism is another, but it takes on different forms.

If we think of nation state in class programming terms,  it is an object instantiated by internal and external forces/conditions (constructors), and the object has attributes and methods that can be unique and universal to all nation state objects.  Accordingly, the nation state object can also be destroyed (destructors).

[paxamericana]

Fellas I'm not talking about any lofty ideals here. I'm just simply stating a observation of mine. 

The younger generation say generation Z do not really identify them selves as strictly part of one country, they see themselves as part of a whole, the global system. 

This lead me to believe that perhaps in the not too distant future when we're all gray haired if not already, that our grand kids will say oh I live in North America but I am Natonian etc...

Edited July 10, 2018 by paxrom

[eyeball]

On 7/1/2018 at 4:08 PM, paxrom said:

I am in the early stages of forming my theory and would like some constructive input. 

Please...you're only in the early stages of finally catching up to ideas that have been around for decades.

Money and corporations have been moving around an essentially borderless world for years now but that said, why would you imagine human beings (they're people too btw) will be allowed to follow suit anytime soon given the hysteria over immigration?

Edited July 10, 2018 by eyeball

[paxamericana]

36 minutes ago, eyeball said:

Please...you're only in the early stages of finally catching up to ideas that have been around for decades.

Money and corporations have been moving around an essentially borderless world for years now but that said, why would you imagine human beings (they're people too btw) will be allowed to follow suit anytime soon given the hysteria over immigration?

No no I'm not saying my Idea is new I'm saying that Nationalism is on it's last leg, a decline, despite it apparent resurfacing. 

[eyeball]

1 minute ago, paxrom said:

No no I'm not saying my Idea is new I'm saying that Nationalism is on it's last leg, a decline, despite it apparent resurfacing. 

I'd say nationalism is at least one of the declines last legs - it's resurfaced for that reason.  That's not a new idea either btw.

[paxamericana]

Just now, eyeball said:

I'd say nationalism is at least one of the declines last legs - it's resurfaced for that reason.  That's not a new idea either btw.

Where's your shovel, I just said its not a new idea.... 

[eyeball]

2 minutes ago, paxrom said:

Where's your shovel, I just said its not a new idea.... 

There's two ideas in play now.

Nationalism is a reaction to globalism and more to the point the way globalism has played out which is to pit worker against worker in a race to the bottom (the old idea that's been around for years that I mentioned).  It's the chaos sown in local economies by the advent of technology (communication, transportation)and its ability to breach international, geographic physical barriers (your idea, but one that's also been around for years) that has caused people to embrace nationalism.

People were warned this would happen decades ago.  And its not the technologies themselves per se that are the problem its the all too often sociopathic way they're used. ie to cause a race to the bottom. 

[taxme]

On 7/1/2018 at 6:06 PM, paxrom said:

Yes it is ironic that in order to fight nationalism you would have to adopt nationalist identity. It is even more amusing that Canada's national identity is not American.

Canadians are pretty much American. The problem is that they just won't admit it. They like to pretend that they are different from Americans but in what way are they different? No one seems to be able to explain this? Even being a white Canadian nationalist like myself(sometimes I have to wonder about that)knows and will admit to this that everything I do is pretty much American. What i would really would like to see is our Canadian dollar go bye-byes and we start using the American dollar. It's getting to expensive to visit America these days thanks to our dam Canadian peso. 

[taxme]

17 hours ago, eyeball said:

There's two ideas in play now.

Nationalism is a reaction to globalism and more to the point the way globalism has played out which is to pit worker against worker in a race to the bottom (the old idea that's been around for years that I mentioned).  It's the chaos sown in local economies by the advent of technology (communication, transportation)and its ability to breach international, geographic physical barriers (your idea, but one that's also been around for years) that has caused people to embrace nationalism.

People were warned this would happen decades ago.  And its not the technologies themselves per se that are the problem its the all too often sociopathic way they're used. ie to cause a race to the bottom. 

If you showed some signs of intelligence you would know by now as to who and what the real problem is. And those dam white nationalists are not the problem, but the solution. As long as the people that you keep wanting to cover up for are running the show nothing will ever get straightened out, just get worse. It would appear to me as though you are the problem, and not the solution. But hey. 

[taxme]

17 hours ago, paxrom said:

Where's your shovel, I just said its not a new idea.... 

His shovel is not big enough for all the chit that he has to shovel and get rid of. LOL.