Conservatives projected to win majority.

[Argus]

1 hour ago, Michael Hardner said:

Is it though ?  How about the guy on my facebook feed who retired at 55 - ex-cop - who posts endlessly about 'government waste' ?  I guess it's not him too he's thinking about.  

There is no issue more important to a voter than his or her job. If I was still a public servant I would far rather see Trudeau's Liberals re-elected than a Tory government likely to make cuts. The same goes for Ontario. Your ex-cop friend doesn't have to worry cutbacks will take his job away.

[Michael Hardner]

3 minutes ago, Argus said:

Speculating works only where there is a shortage. And it is government that causes the shortage.

You can cause a shortage by having a legislative framework that encourages speculation.  It's a circle.

[Michael Hardner]

1 minute ago, Argus said:

 Your ex-cop friend doesn't have to worry cutbacks will take his job away.

I doubt he ever made he connection between government policy and his entitlement.

[Argus]

3 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said:

I doubt he ever made he connection between government policy and his entitlement.

Is he an idiot? It's certainly not a big leap. Everyone knows that the Liberals are friendly to their unions, with the NDP it's "let the good times roll" but with the conservatives it's all about cutting costs, which means jobs. I was certainly aware of that as a federal public servant.

[Argus]

6 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said:

You can cause a shortage by having a legislative framework that encourages speculation.  It's a circle.

I don't honestly see how this is different from what I said. It's government and its rules and regulations and barriers to prevent private industry from supplying demand which leads to the scarcity, which in turn leads to ballooning prices, which in turn makes speculation profitable.

Edited June 8, 2018 by Argus

[Michael Hardner]

Just now, Argus said:

Is he an idiot? 

People are myopic.  I had another compatriot making $100K with Ontario Hydro back in the day... for an UNspecialized role.  His union buddies were all hoping privatization would come soon so that they would have different companies bidding for their services

[Michael Hardner]

1 minute ago, Argus said:

I don't honestly see how this is different from what I said. It's government and its rules and regulations and barriers to prevent private industry from supplying demand which leads to the scarcity, which in turn leads to ballooning prices, which in turn makes speculation profitable.

How about taxing people for non-residential homes ?  Seems like something that might help, instinctively ...

[bush_cheney2004]

Just now, Michael Hardner said:

How about taxing people for non-residential homes ?  Seems like something that might help, instinctively ...

 

How ?   The taxes are just passed on to renters and refunded based on income.

[Argus]

1 minute ago, Michael Hardner said:

How about taxing people for non-residential homes ?  Seems like something that might help, instinctively ...

What do you mean non-residential? If you mean apartments and homes which are rented out that's just going to increase rental costs. Remember that if you're renting out a house you can write off your municipal taxes on your federal tax return.

[Michael Hardner]

1 minute ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

How ?   The taxes are just passed on to renters and refunded based on income.

I am talking about unoccupied homes.  There are several on my street right now sitting empty as the owner waits to sell it to the next person who will hold it for resale.

[Michael Hardner]

2 minutes ago, Argus said:

What do you mean non-residential? If you mean apartments and homes which are rented out that's just going to increase rental costs. Remember that if you're renting out a house you can write off your municipal taxes on your federal tax return.

Apartments and homes are residential

[bush_cheney2004]

1 minute ago, Michael Hardner said:

I am talking about unoccupied homes.  There are several on my street right now sitting empty as the owner waits to sell it to the next person who will hold it for resale.

 

All homes cannot be occupied at one time.   Many apartments remain unoccupied until rented.

[Michael Hardner]

1 minute ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

All homes cannot be occupied at one time.   Many apartments remain unoccupied until rented.

And some sit empty for months and years as chips in a long game of speculation.  It's a problem.

[Michael Hardner]

https://www.thestar.com/business/2017/03/30/city-province-eye-tax-on-unoccupied-homes.html

 

Quote

The province and city are eyeing a tax on vacant houses and condos to address soaring real estate prices that are putting the squeeze on home ownership and rental vacancies in Toronto.  The tax would be one way of curbing the property speculation that many believe is behind the growing crunch on affordability.

This was in play last year.  Maybe Premier DoFo will do something about it.  It would be a shame if he was in office when a horrible crash happened.  Speaking of dupes, the Parkdale PC candidate had literature saying that Ford was pro rent control

[Centerpiece]

2 hours ago, Michael Hardner said:

Is it though ?  How about the guy on my facebook feed who retired at 55 - ex-cop - who posts endlessly about 'government waste' ?  I guess it's not him too he's thinking about.  

I said I think it's fair to say the vast majority of public servants did not vote for the PCs. Your friend is obviously in the minority. The unions themselves have openly encouraged their members to switch from Liberal to NDP. Do you not remember the Ontario Families Coalition? Do you think union members are not influenced by their leadership - and frightened by the scare tactics that they employ? And the Liberals - saying the Conservatives will fire 40,000 public workers including teachers and nurses? And you think they'll all be completely open minded? Seriously?

[bush_cheney2004]

4 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said:

This was in play last year.  Maybe Premier DoFo will do something about it.  It would be a shame if he was in office when a horrible crash happened.  Speaking of dupes, the Parkdale PC candidate had literature saying that Ford was pro rent control

 

"DoFo" violates forum rules...please refer to the gloriously victorious Premier Doug Ford by his proper name !

Unoccupied houses still pay property and/or utility taxes.

 

[Michael Hardner]

1 minute ago, Centerpiece said:

1) I said I think it's fair to say the vast majority of public servants did not vote for the PCs. 

2) Do you think union members are not influenced by their leadership - and frightened by the scare tactics that they employ?

3) And the Liberals - saying the Conservatives will fire 40,000 public workers including teachers and nurses? And you think they'll all be completely open minded? Seriously?

1) Maybe it's fair to say it... but it's still a guess unless you can cite something.

2) You seem to think that union members are susceptible to false scare tactics.  

3) Didn't Hudak say he was going to fire people ?

[Michael Hardner]

2 minutes ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

 

"DoFo" violates forum rules...please refer to the gloriously victorious Premier Doug Ford by his proper name !

Unoccupied houses still pay property and/or utility taxes.

 

DoFo isn't an insult like Trudeau Jr., which is also allowed.  Report and ignore .... It is a short form.

Edited June 8, 2018 by Michael Hardner

[Centerpiece]

1 minute ago, Michael Hardner said:

1) Maybe it's fair to say it... but it's still a guess unless you can cite something.

2) You seem to think that union members are susceptible to false scare tactics.  

3) Didn't Hudak say he was going to fire people ?

1) I don't need to cite that the sky is blue. If it's a guess, it's an educated one along the lines of Einstein or Stephen Hawking.

2) Talk to teachers and nurses - a lot of them truly believe that the Tories would cut jobs and/or wages......surely you know that?

3) With regards to Hudak, now you're just enforcing what I'm saying. It matters little what they did do, would do,  will do, or won't do - the vast majority simply won't vote PC.

[Michael Hardner]

2 minutes ago, Centerpiece said:

1) I don't need to cite that the sky is blue. If it's a guess, it's an educated one along the lines of Einstein or Stephen Hawking.

2) Talk to teachers and nurses - a lot of them truly believe that the Tories would cut jobs and/or wages......surely you know that?

3) With regards to Hudak, now you're just enforcing what I'm saying. It matters little what they did do, would do,  will do, or won't do - the vast majority simply won't vote PC.

1) Sure.  Maybe a guess more like 'most dogs stink' I guess ?  Your initial point seems to be somewhat diminished, though.  Why not put some numbers on your theory and we can look at it.

2) But do they think they themselves would be 'cut' ?  Those are 'last in first out' positions.

3) Again - put some numbers up.  They certainly didn't turn the election their way this time.

[Argus]

38 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said:

1) Sure.  Maybe a guess more like 'most dogs stink' I guess ?  Your initial point seems to be somewhat diminished, though.  Why not put some numbers on your theory and we can look at it.

2) But do they think they themselves would be 'cut' ?  Those are 'last in first out' positions.

3) Again - put some numbers up.  They certainly didn't turn the election their way this time.

Why do you insist on arguing over an elementary observation of basic human behavior patterns? Your position is public servants are too dumb to figure out that they'd be better off under a Liberal/NDP government than a Tory government. I don't think that's realistic. Back when I was a public servant you couldn't find a tory supporter with a sniffer dog. No one I ever spoke to at work failed to express concern about what would happen if conservatives took over. This is a pointless hill to make your stand on.

As far as 'last in, first out' I don't think government unions get that benefit. I know the federal unions don't.

Edited June 8, 2018 by Argus

[Bonam]

31 minutes ago, Argus said:

Why do you insist on arguing over an elementary observation of basic human behavior patterns? Your position is public servants are too dumb to figure out that they'd be better off under a Liberal/NDP government than a Tory government. I don't think that's realistic. Back when I was a public servant you couldn't find a tory supporter with a sniffer dog. No one I ever spoke to at work failed to express concern about what would happen if conservatives took over. This is a pointless hill to make your stand on.

I dunno, some public servants might be farsighted enough (especially if they are not near the end of their career) to realize that some modest cuts now to keep budget deficits from exploding is a better option than waiting for government finances to melt down in 10 years and having much more serious cuts happen then. For younger employees, cuts in a bloated organization can mean faster advancement to a higher position, which otherwise would be occupied by an overabundance of more senior employees coasting along for decades. Also, cuts can often be beneficial for people nearing retirement, as one way to cut your work force without firing anyone (which is always politically difficult) is to offer early retirement or buyouts to employees. 

I'm sure you're right that most public servants would vote for someone other than conservatives but there is likely a sizable minority that sees potential benefits or opportunities in a government that promises modest cuts. 

Edited June 8, 2018 by Bonam

[Centerpiece]

2 hours ago, Michael Hardner said:

1) Sure.  Maybe a guess more like 'most dogs stink' I guess ?  Your initial point seems to be somewhat diminished, though.  Why not put some numbers on your theory and we can look at it.

2) But do they think they themselves would be 'cut' ?  Those are 'last in first out' positions.

3) Again - put some numbers up.  They certainly didn't turn the election their way this time.

Wish I could - but I doubt those numbers are readily available. Not really worth the effort - if you think that all the negative ads, union endorsements and scare tactics have little effect....then giving you some numbers likely will just lead to another round of "ya but". Truth is - the Liberal vote tanked - a lot of voters switched to the NDP - and 5 will get you 10 that many were public servants running to the party that will best keep their wages and entitlements on the upswing. Shows how predatory the unions are......after milking the Liberals for 15 years (and the Liberals milking their votes), change was in the wind so the unions abandoned the sinking ship like rats and endorsed the NDP. I guess that's what they call "progressive" politics. 

[Argus]

1 hour ago, Bonam said:

I dunno, some public servants might be farsighted enough (especially if they are not near the end of their career) to realize that some modest cuts now to keep budget deficits from exploding is a better option than waiting for government finances to melt down in 10 years 

The problem with that theory is the people you're speaking of are young. Young people are rarely conservatives. Many of those I worked with were in their twenties. They never read a newspaper and didn't watch the news on TV but they certainly embraced the view that conservatives were mean old dinosaurs.

[cannuck]

I hope Ford DOES turn out to be "like Trump".  While DT might be a bit of an a-hole on a good day, he does what he feels is best for his country and his people.  I don't care what they each did in their private lives, I care about what they are going to do in their public life.  ON was sold down the river by the Lib/NDP (sorry if you think there is any difference - there is not) and our left wing media.  While it might seem nice to congratulate the victor, what is really needed is a harsh reminder to the electorate that THEY put the Libs in and kept them there for 15 years, not to mention they seemed to have forgotten the lessons they SHOULD have learned from Bob Rae.  Now they get to pay the price.

The solution to this kind of crap is very simple:  no deficit financing by constitutional provision.  If a governement wants to give something to their voter base, the rest should directly feel and pay the price while the perpetrator is still in office.