Female beauty only in the media

[RB]

Why are we imposing standards on women to look a certain way?

Women are internalise to think, thin = good figure. With a good figure comes greater display of skin, which reads, sexy.

But most of women we see and whom we know are naturally more mature and larger than the models shown on TV or other media.

I mean the only big winners are the cosmetic and diet industry (well, car too), whose un-surmountable profits just keep soaring because of the media portrayal of THE CERTAIN look a woman should aspire for to become acceptable, be a beauty and therefore desirable.

What’s wrong with being messy, not trying to fit into some smaller size clothes, being sweaty, no make-up, cheap bras, forgo the shaving of the legs for one day without worrying, no botox, keeping fit and being in good health etc.

Why women are thinking they need adjustment to look a particular way?

[August1991]

Why are we imposing standards on women to look a certain way?

Why are beards unattractive? What male politicians are bald? Why do women prefer taller men? Why is Clinton sexy?

RB, perhaps unwittingly, you are raising a complex question.

I raised such a question on rabble and I was banned.

On this forum, I think, you are free to discuss your opinions. In any case, I will defend your right to argue whatever you believe. On Rabble, nobody came to my defence.

RB, I have defended vociferously other posters on this Maple Leaf forum so you should feel free here too.

IMV, the measure of an Internet Forum is how participants defend a poster. On Rabble, no one defended me. I felt like Salman Rushdie.

[Trial-and-Error]

I didn't like Babble either--I find they're a closed clique, so don't bother posting there any more. Too bad, really, especially as most of them are liberals who believe in free speech. I've even had some of my posts deleted, yet was never told why. Even wrote to one of the moderators to ask why. Never received a reply.

As to the subject matter, I think we women have been sold a bill of goods. My observation is that to maintain a high profile on t.v. a woman has to look both young and beautiful (with mighty few exceptions). Some of those women delivering the newscasts drive me to distraction. They may be both slim and beautiful but too many of them are clutzes when it comes to reading the news. In all newscasters I like a well modulated voice and no nodding of the head when emphasizing some of the words--which also drives me nuts. To my way of thinking when a word is enunciated with emphasis you're into a form of editorializing.

And one other thing, I don't much care about a newscaster's race, religion or colour, but I expect them to speak in a Canadian voice. There's a gal on the Discovery channel who is terribly, terribly English. Her accent would be just fine in any situation other than in a job that requires her to communicate effectively to Canadians. I see those of colour reporting the news who have great, clear voices. My point is that in newscasting, I want the best communicator and short of being unkempt, the excellent voice rules.

Sorry, I've rambled on enough.

[Trial-and-Error]

deleted duplication

[August1991]

As to the subject matter, I think we women have been sold a bill of goods. My observation is that to maintain a high profile on t.v. a woman has to look both young and beautiful (with mighty few exceptions).

Is it different for men?

Why does youth appear better? What signals youth?

[caesar]

Personally, most women I know are not that shallow and insecure to be taken in by all the ads. I don't think there is any more pressure on any female with intelligence than men.

[Trial-and-Error]

Interesting, caesar, that you think most of the women you know are not taken in by all the ads. Perhaps your women friends are more consumer savvy than most.

Advertisers are known to target women for all manner of products. One example of very sophisticated marketing aimed at women is in the cosmetic field. In N.A. over 30 billion dollars of products were sold in 2000. You can bet sales were even higher in 04. So, yes, women are being reeled in by the ads.

Advertisers sell image and use every devious device to do it. T.V. programming is not put together simply for entertainment. It's a package deal and everything is orchestrated to dovetail. Most programs on t.v. show slim, good looking, sexy, fashionably dressed, well groomed, coifed and made-up women. Then there are the t.v., newspaper and magazine ads which are created to emphasize the images seen on t.v. and in movies. T.V. and print models who are ultra-slim and beautiful are the norm in advertising.

Funny, though, most people will tell you that they are not affected by advertising one way or t'other. Well, common sense tells us that that is simply not the case. Advertising sells--big time. Period.

From my perspective ads are becoming more objectionable by the year as is the entertainment fare that abounds in our society. Someone is buying into the advertising crap and since most purchases are made by women, let's guess who's primarily being bamboozled.

[caesar]

From my perspective ads are becoming more objectionable by the year as is the entertainment fare that abounds in our society. Someone is buying into the advertising crap and since most purchases are made by women, let's guess who's primarily being bamboozled.

Teenagers. Insecure women and men.

Those sexy looking blondes leaning on a car are selling to men.

I am female.

Women are not the Barbie doll over made up as they were back in my days. Most women I see at work wear no or minimal makeup.

[Trial-and-Error]

I'm pleased to hear that you believe many of the buyers are insecure women and teenagers. Who's guiding teenage purchases? Parents or advertisers? On average who would you say has the most clout? Probably peers but then again who ultimately is setting the standard?

And why do you think there are so many insecure women about? Take the diet industry for instance--they're making gobs of money based on insecurity orchestrated by all forms of media. Sorry, caesar, allthough you undoubtedly know the audience in your circle of friends, your example is still anecdotal. Sales tell the story. I would be interested in learning from you examples of ads you personally consider acceptable.

[The Terrible Sweal]

Why are we imposing standards on women to look a certain way? ...

Why women are thinking they need adjustment to look a particular way?

Who do you mean 'we', kemosabe?

I think that this 'debate' is often discussed from an odd perspective. Is there really any more to the question than simply 'What motivates women'?

[caesar]

Who's guiding teenage purchases? Parents or advertisers? On average who would you say has the most clout? Probably peers but then again who ultimately is setting the standard?

Teenager's do most of their own decisions on buying and a parent's guidance usually results in the opposite effect. They need to show independence so naturally advertisers and their peers have more clout. Why do you think they all like to wear clothes with the designers name printed on. For me; if they want me to advertise for them (designers) I want the article free.

[Guest eureka]

I would suggest tht it is all in the genes or hormones. It never has been other than this and likely never will be.

[Black Dog]

raised such a question on rabble and I was banned.

August, you weren't banned from that thread, but from this one for making a homophobic remark, which violated Babble policy. Hardly a free speech issue, so really: stow the martyr rouitine.

Why women are thinking they need adjustment to look a particular way?

Well, the struggle to measure up to unrealistic beauty standards is a centuries old one. But the mass media, advertising and the rise of celebrity culture has made it omnipresent. Today, it's largey about cold hard cash, but there's also an element of "keeping women in their place" present. Just watch the ads that air during a show like "Desperate Housewives" and take note of how many ads show women in the kitchen, scrubbing the bathroom etc.

[RB]

More grab news on those desparate housewives - I admit I never saw an episode yet, but saw ratings constantly in the news - and the images of the ladies, uh well more stereotyping and the

"L( . ) ( . )K" sought after

But here is some dizzying information on women and their pressures

Miss America contest (average) statistics

1954 – height 5’8”-132pounds

1980 – height 5’8”-117pounds

1991 – height 5’8”-117pounds

– winners were always thinner and below 117 pounds

Playboy competes with these statistics above, these are the ideals that men are seeking?

Real statistics for an average North American woman

Height 5’3” – 144 pounds

Look it , women seen and portrayed on TV and in the media such as newspaper, magazines, billboards, movies etc are weighting 23% less body weight than an average woman, and now the avg. regular women are internalized to keep up with these appearances, shows like desperate housewives only promote women to their own demise.

Here is a survey of 33,000 college students who should, well, rely on intelligence rather than appearance to succeed in life. Why are these women standardizing themselves, and having such poor perception of their body image?

75% think they are fat

96% want to lose weight

47% diet occasionally

37% diet all the time

95% failure rate of dieting

I am of the believe women are judge at this intersection by the standards we see in the media

- she dresses or undress

- dress up or dress down

- walks or wiggle

- wear make-up or not

- coifs or color

- thin or fat

- gain weight or lose weight

- flat breast or large busted

- buttocks flat or firm

- fascination about appearance or obsession

- have cosmetic surgery, liposuction, or breast implants or shun it

- right or wrong

- wrong or lie

- sample or appraise

- appearance or intelligence

- indifferent to problem or choice

No doubt, there is pressure from the media for women to look a certain way, whatever lies women tell or conveyed or "poker face" they show to others. They are silently accepting standards and scrutinizing themselves privately. And usually they do not like what they see.

Anxiety is created among women, especially with older women and teens about the way they should see themselves. The media plays the pivotal role in pressuring the creation of this fad to the detriment of women.

So Bill Clinton is sexy?

I thought charismatic yes, well he put women’s issues on his agenda (no pun intended) such as caring, but mostly from my view he is seemingly apologetic for past patriarchal behavior – hence this infatuation of women to Bill.

I believe men are not as much pressured to look a certain way as women, men usually have only 5 pounds they are are always trying to lose.

Men who have streaks of grey are indicative of being distinguished and other notable characteristics perhaps accumulated wealth, the same view of steaks of grey is not true of women.

Who do you mean 'we', kemosabe?

The we in context was: society, then the media, then men, then women

In what context is kemosabe used?

[Cartman]

I believe men are not as much pressured to look a certain way as women, men usually have only 5 pounds they are are always trying to lose.

While I generally agree with you RB, I would argue that there are increasingly more men out there who care about their looks. They are spending more $$ on clothes, hair etc and will use creatine or roids to get more buff.

BTW...after these holidays, I need to lose more than 5 lbs!!

[The Terrible Sweal]

Who do you mean 'we', kemosabe?

The we in context was: society, then the media, then men, then women

Then I reject it. Unless you use a definition of 'imposing' which is so broad it renders the concept essentially meaningless, neither society, nor the media, and especially not 'men' are imposing standards on women. Obviously there are, within society, prevailing (but not universal) notions of what is attractive and not. Obviously the media is an important promulgator of these notions. But I don't see how this can be called an imposition. Women can attempt to conform to these notions or not, just as anyone can choose to be friendly or unfriendly.

In what context is kemosabe used?

There's an old joke ... the Lone Ranger and Tonto find themselves surrounded by an angry Apache war-party. The Lone Ranger turns to Tonto and says: "Well, friend, how are we going to get out of this one?" And Tonto says ... "Who do you mean, we, Kemosabe?"

[RB]

increasingly more men out there who care about their looks. They are spending more $$ on clothes, hair etc and will use creatine or roids to get more buff.

yes yes I agree

From my perspective in prior times women duties were to take care of the home and look darn pretty. And the men were apparently hardworking people who brought in the paycheck – no talk about economic parity, nor appearance. Well, even now the grandfathers do not care much about appearance.

Nowadays, women have their own earning power and are free to consider other choices besides the finances the man provide which is why I object to trying to put some standard on beauty – women do not need this beautifying ideal anymore - they need to be themselves.

I mean if women are to surpass men in what is considered beautiful, without the men formulae, I think we are doing much better.

Here is the equation as it evolves

Dependant pretty women=hard working men=men with no interest on appearance

Hardworking women=choice in men=men change in appearance

So the fact is women should be applauded, because look at a change culture for men, and it shows movement of influence of not caring about their appearance to

- No more hair (as in shaving legs, chest, back, etc.)

- Preening

- Earnings

- More muscles

- Looking sexier

- Change in attire

- Change in attitude

- Change in appearance

- More magazines for the sorts

- Clean cut folks

- And they are not attending universities in equal numbers as the women so not getting wiser

But also they are exhibiting and flaunting their bodies

I am beginning to wonder if women can secure enough power over men, mind you the males are very fixated on the females already, and they don't want to attend school that indeed there is a reversal of this image programming and we end up with

Hardworking pretty women = ?? Hardworking pretty men

you think

[RB]

The we in context was: society, then the media, then men, then women

Then I reject it. Unless you use a definition of 'imposing' which is so broad it renders the concept essentially meaningless, neither society, nor the media, and especially not 'men' are imposing standards on women.

Firstly, I don't expect men to confer with this idea of being a major contributor of standards for women. We already establish this the minute women were coined passive, whatever. Kundera, in Immorality says "Woman is the future of man. That means that the world which was once formed in man's image will now be transformed to the image of woman."

But also men have more to lose than not.

Now society can change an attitude, we have seen, for example little boys are taught to respect women at an early age instead of the encouragement of unleashing the beast within. I am sure if there was a some progressive outcry by women to stop this imagery of women, and to force the idea we are not represented as a true self, that there can be a societal change but also watch the collapse of industries and economies.

Women, well, we are working for them for change their psyche about themselves, and to accept who and what they are, and its slower than anticipated

But what fashion has done to women is to take what is the improbable ideal of women and offer a cheap solution to the same women to try for a great look.

I guess because there is a choice are given, women are grateful for the chance to put these in their lives.

- glamour

- escapism

- mirror images of what we wish we were

- pick a fashion brand

- deal with my aesthetic attractiveness

- chose wisely my lifestyle

But these are all false creations and false expectations on the part of women that is handed to society. It is at this junction that society wants to hand it fully to all women.

But, I mean we never hear about these so call models positive image having some group session to be a “role model” that’s a good one, but what they usually say in the ads is that look, you are never good the way you are, and you need to change, let me see that is targeting 99.7% of women because only 0.3 percent are in shape...phew what a market

conclusion, maybe women are connected to style and this is alright, more that what they live and experience in real life

I say men dictate the fashion styles and images women present because they are the controllers of the means of these media, it is owned by males and hence information is projected though the shifty male lenses. Heck from the beginning they created beauty, women for men themselves.

So I don't pretend to lay the blame squarely on men because of their twisted view, women are seen as an object – sex object, afterall that’s what the advertisement is selling for example now:

- the models used for calvin kline usually show young women in defeating roles sexual subordination, while it seeks to enhance the male bulges where-ever they are found. Secondly the ads set women up agaist each other for sexual prowldressness (new word from me)

Men know about women and feed on women's insecurities, and guess what women are played into the commercialism of themselves. Men link youth to consumption of gym products, diet, clothes, aging cream etc.

Look, we ladies, we want to believe in our men, and they show how to stay young and stay with them but everything we try we are failing 95% of the time

So there must be some end to this commercialism of image because it slows women down in their progress to make men happy and for women to have equality

I have a suggestion, that for one universal day of the year, that all the women of the world get rid of bras, panties, bathing suits, mirror images, glamour, fashion brand, aesthetics etc that reminds us of commercialism and that for this one day that all the women demand a standard and here is what you get:

1) a uniform or

2) a nude

Take you pick

L( . Y . )k here now,

Is it too much to ask that women be spared the daily struggle for superhuman beauty in order to offer it to the caresses of a subhumanly ugly mate? The Female Eunuch, “Loathing and Disgust”

[KrustyKidd]

This is old hat and we are all new at it. Ancient Greece reveled in the aggressinveness of men, who all competed to be the strongest, most athletic and fiercest warrior. With this honor they would be able to attract the most virile and beautiful woman.

the women on the other hand tried to be the most voluptious, warmest, fertile thing that they could be in order to attract the fiercest and strongest male they could.

And you are going to change all this in 2005?

Best of luck!

[caesar]

Who falls for more scams to prevent or reverse baldness; it is a booming industry. I see lots of these older men giving themselves bad hair dye jobs in the quest to look younger, And if the spam I am constantly recieving on my computer indicates anything men want larger apparatus and are willing to spend the money for it. It seems to be quickly replacing the ads for bigger boobs for women.

Every age and gender have their insecure individuals that always seek to change themselves and buy into these scams.

[KrustyKidd]

Well said Ceasar. This is nothing new, nor is it abnormal. To be able to condition this out of the human psyce would be an acheivement indeed.

Is there a pudgy middle aged man anywhere that does not wish he had the body of Adonis? Or a frumpy housewife who wished she were like Aphrodite? We all do. And some give up on that dream while others persue it.

And others take advantage of it.

[Slavik44]

increasingly more men out there who care about their looks. They are spending more $$ on clothes, hair etc and will use creatine or roids to get more buff.

yes yes I agree

From my perspective in prior times women duties were to take care of the home and look darn pretty. And the men were apparently hardworking people who brought in the paycheck – no talk about economic parity, nor appearance. Well, even now the grandfathers do not care much about appearance.

Actually I disagree with you, infact if you look through history such societal pressures have always been around, I mean look at greek sculptures they certainly were not of fat guys. Or even in more recent times like the seventeen hundreds such pressures on both genders existed in many ways similar to those today. For instance an article by Thomas A. Foster Deficient Husbands: Manhood, sexual incapacity, and male maritial sexuality in seventeenth-century New england may help show you that the little house on the prarrie images you have imbedded in your mind is far from the truth. (By the way a Males incapability to bring a female to orgasm was grounds for a divorce) To even go past that the Ideal Male was Tall, Muscular, well built, and possesed a full head of hair as being fat and bald indicated you couldn't make babies or hold an errection.Imagine that is so unlike todays society, tall and muscular what a bunch of idiots eh?

[RB]

Muscular, well built, and possesed a full head of hair as being fat and bald indicated you couldn't make babies or hold an errection

well they also came up with information why women should not use their brains - it would interfere with the baby making

I guess I have not seen men so pronounced in the media as the exploited women, the men in the media commercials are represent only with razors and underwear and hair loss I forgot that one

I like the idea that the real men end up in bronze and put in the marketplace where women indifferently gaze upon them - well exception because contemporary life is in pursuit of the pink culture, I mean the gays are overwhelmingly representing all the men nowadays and having taken up air and space time, so guys there is a newer formulae available and you need to be updated

(Males incapability to bring a female to orgasm was grounds for a divorce)

good, I'll also put a stamp on this one myself - I say this is the ultimate bestest experience that can happen between the sexes, and it does not work ...

[August1991]

RB, the male peacock has many colourful feathers. Why?

Desmond Morris made the claim that we humans are a species with sophisticated methods to signal our abilities. Youth is an attractive feature of a partner.

Old women incapable of pregnancy signal this by wrinkles and grey hair. Old men signal their impotence by wrinkles and baldness.

As a species, we have not changed genetically for a million years or so.

RB, how tall are trees in a forest? Why?

This is old hat and we are all new at it. Ancient Greece reveled in the aggressinveness of men, who all competed to be the strongest, most athletic and fiercest warrior.

*Rolls eyes* KK, are you clueless? Women are not aggressive? In some species, the female eats the male after sex.

----

Note to BD: This thread, and your reference to rabble, depress me. I mean no harm and maybe I'm wrong. But surely I should get the chance to explain myself. And surely someone (at least one person) should stand up to say that others should hear me out.

BD, there was nothing homophobic in my posts in the link you provided. In fact, my posts show a genuine desire to encourage tolerance. Young kids deserve the chance to find their own way.

Sorry to use this public forum to make a private point.

[RB]

I fail to see that women with wrinkle signifies end of vitality and has nothing to offer. You are conforming a woman with wrinkles is usually taken to mean the interchangeable “wife”, "the mother", “grandmother”, “bag lady” that you wish to sever relation.

If anything there is more power and freedom to women, firstly there is the end of the “curse”, and women are reported to feel very much liberated and very sexual, attractive and more feeling good about themselves. And they do not need to be bombarded by images to distraction to tell them this.

I mean these are mature ladies, well they do have money to make a difference despite the commercials showing and targeting youthful look. I would argue that we should see a whole lot more older women popping up on the television

The media has always taboo women self-image, and keeps lowering women’s self-worth, sense of self, and seek overwhelmed the women and strongly encouraged to avoid any physical signs connected with aging – such feign affections for women from the media.

Women do not have to surrender to youth at all, nor should they be encouraged to distress themselves with dark imagination, we have the compliments of men living with us daily for this already