Female beauty only in the media

[RB]

woman dream of love and there is also some hero involve.

I mean look the characters below, they are not just fantasies boys and girls, these are the hero options:

X-Men, Spiderman, Batman, Superman, Darkman, David Letterman, Van Helsing, the shadow, Daredevil, Terminator, Casanova, Fabio, Hulk, Prince Charming

You ever saw a car moving on the highway with a mattress on the top, guess who is holding it with their one hand. No the wind don’t matter that you are going 100 K/hr, it won’t get blown away afterall this is Spiderman holding the thing. How many countless mattresses have you seen carelessly laying on the highways, so it didn’t work then?

Anyway, I wanted to mention since September 11 women are looking for protectors whether there is a link to just the uniform or authority of these folks or the need for a literal strong physical protector as the media protray them

I read somewhere one dating service saw a rise to 60% of females requesting firefighters, police officers, and er.. politicians as potential mates or dates so I didn't think these folks are lonely this Feb. 14

For other folks who are romantics at heart, the ladies would like the famous line

- I love you

- but give a "rose"

- hugs are good

- spontaneous flirting

- send an email or make the call if you are far away

Happy Valentines

[Tawasakm]

OKwell first of all I must declare that I am... inebritated... intensively.

So don't (because of myeing submissive. state) take me too seriously if you do not wish to.

I wish to speak to my own feelings in this matter. I have broken up with every single girlfriend I had that I perceived as being submissive. It's not that I want women to dominate me - that leads to a whole lot of fireworks. Its that I want people to be themselves and if they can't be I won't be involved in any romantic relationsip with them.

This is addressed to your 'conspiracy of men'. I do not want anybody to less then they are and I would never manipulate events toward such a goal. I think you are really reaching when you try to implicate all men bracuse it is not substantiated by my own experience or by that of the other blokes I know. We are all 'people'.

I would never ask someone to be less then they are and because of this I do not respect the presmise of your argument.

Hoprefully this makes sense. Possibly In should not post after a 'long night'.

[RB]

I am... inebritated... intensively

In my experience with intoxication, people are less politically correct and a truth is revealed.

Well there is real evil involve with the beauty myth in that it promotes sexist status quo.

The commercials while it give the enhancers of products, medicine, fashion, feminine hygiene, and surgery for women is also deceitfully also aiming and appealing to the expectation of men about women and women good looks.

Putting it into perspective, fellows, this is what you need to look for, oh no, hardly a pretence about a net figure - you already made sure there is nothing equal about the incomes between the genders, but how about 'em real curvy figures 36C-26-36 is the usual minimum order.

Women are always distressed about this beauty ideal in trying to please men and it shows. North American men will have long term relationships with an average of 7 partners in a lifetime.

So this means I can actually conclude that much indulgence in the partners explain that men are quite satisfied in choosing their mates wisely, or they are following some expectations, sampling and selecting.

I mean you mentioned about distancing girlfriends who portray the very characteristics of women being submissive, shallow perhaps, docile, concern about looking good, lacking something that you could not fingered, faking it, and other blokes also have similar experiences.

Ok I buy it, men are on the look out for some real women and where are they getting this ideal image from? Trial and error, 7 is the most likely outcome when 2 dices are rolled.

On a micro level I could listen to all the personal experiences of all the males but when I tally up, the results show large scale discrepency.

The proposal of being beautiful is so common and ingrain in society that is has become a way of life. There is a natural order of things. Almost as it were for domestication of women for house duties.

I do not respect the presmise of your argument.

I mean how can you reject something that is a largely unstudied force.

[RB]

Alright, you fellows want to reject my theory on beauty on the basis that:

- it was here

- now it has disappeared

- it is not harmful

- it is not an agenda

- it is not an ideal

OK I am to believe that men do not gaze upon the women and that they do not continue to think in their wicked ways of abstraction on how to impose some art form unto the real woman.

Well I stand by my position that males are dominated in power positions in society and they dominate and control the way beauty has manifested its way into women's lives.

Now here is one argument with my observation of men, they are stubborn, and it is like the demise of all men if they cannot be gods to women.

Look, at a time when women are less dependant on the males for security, basic needs, protection whatever, that just maybe the males are very insecure about their position and how to operate in the female sphere of freeness oppose to their sheer overconfidence when women were the loving slaves.

I mean when beauty was not a forefront issue woman knew how to be submissive as they were depending on the male prosperity. Now women do not need men for wealth, guess what beauty is a problem.

To make the political argument on the subtleness of all of this beauty facade, is that this promotion of this beauty ideal only leads to more social inequality, first it is not inherent in a free and democratic way society should operate, nor does it feed off our liberal principles and values of individuality, and this failing effect emerges when the male gaze continues to objectify a woman.

I think this is the one way for the male to reconcile their insecurities with the female confidence.

What I mean is that, look men, you continue to promote beauty to an elitist state to embitter women and make them powerless.

Men prosper in the way they discriminate; in fact men are assured of their status, they do not need to look beautiful.

The only people who need to be hysterical, and change their looks and are desperate to change are the women.

[Grantler]

Hmmmm.

Well I think that this is a fairly good debate, but I want to ask a couple of questions to you.

1. You think a woman with good looks has a better chance of succeeding?

2. You think that men are the reason women need to be beautiful to succeed?

3. Do you think that women desire other women in positions of power moreso than they want men?

4. Is there not something instinctual to our animal being about desiring beauty that we cannot change?

[RB]

1. You think a woman with good looks has a better chance of succeeding?

Yes, of course there is this story with a dutiful girl and her ugly sisters, and lets not forget the wicked stepmother.

Woman are gazed upon as objects even here, you see the tiny glass slippers hold the key to a fellow's heart, perceived happiness, and a girl needs to be rescued from hell by a male.

You will recall the sisters tried their darnest to fit into the slippers, even mutilated their toes to no avail. The same is with the beauty tried by >95% of females

But beauty synonymous with the slippers would fit only the most desirable and seductive woman. But even so every female tries the beauty for a fit.

For the male it is glorious, because what this means is that it is a way to secure sexual imprisonment of women among other oppression, it is what the beauty ideal is about

The story usually ends with happy ever after and women are never heard of again.

And the main reason they are not heard of course is that most women change their names when they get married and thats the end of them. period

In order words we do know for sure that our prince exist in the form of Patriarchy.

Woman are to be blame also as they look for men's approval and allow themselves to be manipulated.

I mean name some recent successful women besides the catwalk

Heather Reisman

Judge Abella

Kim Campbell

H Clinton

C Rice

etc

Are you are thinking they made it to the top with being sexy and with good looks?

Well I can only respond to #1 question for now... and by the way that #2 question is being a bit cheeky and devilish. Some of folks here are really disapproving what I have to say.

[Michael Hardner]

RB:

Women are always distressed about this beauty ideal in trying to please men and it shows.

Most of what you say in this thread hinges upon the ideal that people get their "ideals" from television and magazine. I'm not disputing that that may be true, but if so isn't THAT the problem ?

And if it is, it's a problem that's very much tied to our place and time in history. Television until very recently had to market to the broadest market as possible, so their "ideal" of beauty as shown in ads was very generally applicable.

As the diversification of electronic media continues, you'll see more diverse images as well.

As for the idea that men prefer thin women - it's a myth. Straight men prefer healthy looking women, and women who are curvier and rounder. My experience is that men actually prefer fat women to thin women, and are only now starting to admit that fact.

Thin, pixie-like women are a product of the fashion industry which has no interest in the opinions of straight men.

[RB]

Beauty like all constructed social phenomena has latent manifestations. It is projected in the media but lurks in the shadows of women being.

What I mean is that women are now socialised to look a role. The young tweens are adopting appropriate attitudes and behaviour to look a certain way.

It is not just the media that creates this havoc, it’s the way the culture has turned around and how it is created to receive this sort of political socialisation in the form of a beauty lesson.

Beauty gets transmitted into the norm, patterns and behaviours and seeks to re-emphasise this is the way to be productive member in society.

It is the males that control this beauty discipline and the way women persevere. Women are conformed to beauty on the basis of encouragement, and or disdain by men. There is a social placement of course in all of this in that standards are identified and women are channelled on the basis of good looks.

It is my believe that the males have a recency of failure in having women’s attention, and love and have since subtly racked their brains for forms of obedience to authority.

They have since publicly announce and now more consistently in the media new routines for women. Clearly they have identified a societal need for change and introduced the pressing beauty issue to engage the women to latent functions such as: the hidden agendas.

I mean if women take a hard look at health issues such as: PMS childbirth, menopause, contraception, plastic surgery, breast implants it would be surprising to find that associated development of drugs just haphazardly happen to incidentally coincide with how small breast are termed distortion of body image, or how Ritalin and ADD go hand in hand.

The beauty notion as far as the males are concern has gone ahead with no unintended consequences or linkages, so this is good news for the male.

My observation and keen interest for the female, is that beauty have emerged with social inequality and more gender inequalities, look at all the nonsense women are doing to look pretty.

Unless women realise these are hypocritical conflicts and reject beauty as a dysfunction of society, looking for equality and freedom, or wanting to maintained some privileged position even at the expense of men is futile.

Woman at their bestest should have better values to strive for than beauty.

Straight men prefer healthy looking women, and women who are curvier and rounder. My experience is that men actually prefer fat women to thin women, and are only now starting to admit that fact.

If I was to go with the standard of measurement for beauty men only have exclusive gains to .3% of standard. The average North American woman is 5'3" and 144 pounds - so it is impossible not to agree with the healthy women men usually wind up with - it is not a, a preference or choice thats the way it is.

sorry got to go....

[The Terrible Sweal]

RB, you are full to the eyeballs with nonsensical gender-warfare bumf. you demonstrate this by resorting to jargon and distraction each time you are confronted by a point or question that demonsrates an inconsistency between your claims and reality.

yes, men make aesthetic evaluations of women. however, you have yet to indicate why that equates to oppression or conspiracy as you appear to believe.

[RB]

yes, men make aesthetic evaluations of women. however, you have yet to indicate why that equates to oppression or conspiracy as you appear to believe.

Can I talk about oppression of women some other time.

The conspiracy bit is relatively easy.

The same theme exist in reading and analysis perspective, the shapely culture, the socialization, the group dynamics, work, power relation, families, love relation, romance, sex, education, health, group behaviours, change systems etc.

Here is a bit on families:

Inequality of the sexes focuses on the widely practice patriarchy systems. I don't want to regale about the domination and submission of women by men - still happens not as overt as long ago

Now most women resist male domination. For example they control their reproductive powers, can take their earning powers to the next level.

Men however resist and don't want to give up being the status symbol and to be declared man of the house.

Look, only 15% of families in Canada is supported solely on males.

But, men still continue to construct an ideal of their masculinity and they continue to promote themselves as well "male" in this culture.

The promotion is successful because men still dominate and control the means of social, political and economic powers

I am waiting to see the dynamics when homosexuality overtakes heterosexuality in power relations and its impact on women - I think women stand to gain much if they had not advanced as anticipated

[The Terrible Sweal]

Yet another round of windy assertions, all still falling far short of meaningful.

I think you need to use your critical faculties with more rigor in your womens studies course.

[RB]

I think you need to use your critical faculties with more rigor in your womens studies course.

You wish to promote some extreme radicals I suppose.

I have only once entered into a woman and feminism class and got kicked out

Its no fun trying to articulate to young women that they don't need to depend on men for security, basic needs and happiness. They need to come to their own senses, make their choices and have some conclusion how things operate.

One girl about 21 year old expressed that she will get marry soon and her boyfriend promised to look after her. Its the way her parents were and this is an expectation. Others in the class thought in order to have a fullfilling career they had to think and try to be like a man to be competitive. Others complained that family life is not helping with careers.

There is a whole lot of issues about women in these women's studies classes and usually no men are signed on to these classes, I didn't either and so I got thrown out, happens sometimes but I am not deterred to grab new information I didn't even know that the Universities offered Rap music classes until 2 weeks ago I had 10 fed-up minutes waiting time so I joined an on-going impromptu Rap session - man these folks are right to kick me out, its soo out of my league