Horwath, NDP: "Donate a little bit more taxes....."

betsy · May 8, 2018

Horwath had admitted at an interview after the debate last night, that indeed we'll get taxed more if she wins - after all, someone has to help pay for all the free prescriptions/meds, free childcare, free dental care, social housing, more inject sites, etc.., "Donate a little bit more taxes," she replied.

Incidentally, my NDP neighbour has been saying the same thing: let's pay a little bit more taxes to help others. That must be the new NDP mantra.

At least, Horwath came out saying it. By implying it is a donation, she makes it sound like as if you've got any choice about it! Or, how much you want to give! :lol: She really thinks voters are so stupid!

Now, on top of the huge deficit we now have (thanks to Wynne), and with all the HUGE socialist spending Horwath has promised to do.............just how much is "little?"

Edited May 8, 2018 by Charles Anthony
added speaker to title

betsy · May 8, 2018

If she wins.........is Horwath the next Bob Rae?

betsy · May 8, 2018

Who's she kidding? Don't get fooled by all the feel-good messages.

Horwath and Wynne, are both cut from the same clothe. The only difference between the two is that we know, Wynne tends to fib about facts.

Edited May 8, 2018 by betsy

taxme · May 8, 2018

7 hours ago, betsy said:

Horwath had admitted at an interview after the debate last night, that indeed we'll get taxed more if she wins - after all, someone has to help pay for all the free prescriptions/meds, free childcare, free dental care, social housing, more inject sites, etc.., "Donate a little bit more taxes," she replied.

Incidentally, my NDP neighbour has been saying the same thing: let's pay a little bit more taxes to help others. That must be the new NDP mantra.

At least, Horwath came out saying it. By implying it is a donation, she makes it sound like as if you've got any choice about it! Or, how much you want to give! She really thinks voters are so stupid!

Now, on top of the huge deficit we now have (thanks to Wynne), and with all the HUGE socialist spending Horwath has promised to do.............just how much is "little?"

The NDP and the liberals love to spend the taxpayer's tax dollars on their pet liberal/socialist programs and agendas. So what if it will cost more taxes to do so because Canadians are rich, right? Chuckle-chuckle. And most of those people that will be receiving all of those freebies will be legal and illegal refugees or new immigrants and their kids who have not contributed one cent to the economy. Well, maybe nine or ten did.

Your neighbor does not appear to have the smarts. I guess that he/she loves to pay more taxes. Typical reply from another non-thinking socialist. The sad part is that we are surrounded by these non-thinking voters who really do appear to be quite stupid big time.

A little always amounts to a lot. Our spend crazy politicians like to tell us tax paying dummies that the project will cost a hundred million tax dollars but in the end the project has cost the taxpayer's triple the cost. It is my personal opinion and belief that just about all politicians are nothing more than a bunch of thieves, cheats and liars and your neighbor appears to love being made an azz of. Aw well. :rolleyes:

betsy · May 12, 2018

Boy....if ever Horwath manages to win......she'll be much worse than Wynn (spend-wise). She is SOCIALIST! Ontario will lose business investors!

There'll be no more hope for Ontario at all. We'll never be able to dig ourselves out from that monstrous debt.

Michael Hardner · May 12, 2018

Wasn't the minimum wage increase supposed to instantly destroy the economy? Maybe we can somehow create an economy out of scare mongering.

Argus · May 12, 2018

2 hours ago, Michael Hardner said:

Wasn't the minimum wage increase supposed to instantly destroy the economy? Maybe we can somehow create an economy out of scare mongering.

Please provide a cite which said that the minimum wage increase would instantly destroy the economy. From any source.

Because as far as I'm aware, the complaint was it would lead to job losses. And it appears to have done so, though we're in the early stages. Part time jobs in particular appear to have been heavily hit, to such an extent the government has decided to roll back that part of the legislation which deals with holiday pay for part time workers.

Edited May 12, 2018 by Argus

Michael Hardner · May 12, 2018

1 hour ago, Argus said:

1) Please provide a cite which said that the minimum wage increase would instantly destroy the economy. From any source.

2) Because as far as I'm aware, the complaint was it would lead to job losses.

1) I concur that I am being hyperbolic but here are some examples of doom-saying:

http://business.financialpost.com/executive/careers/0612-biz-hl-levittwkpl

http://business.financialpost.com/opinion/matthew-lau-wynnes-ontario-liberals-know-a-15-minimum-wage-will-kill-thousands-of-jobs-but-theyre-doing-it-anyway

Quote

Of course, U.S. and other foreign employers will immediately write off Ontario, Alberta and B.C. as places to setup shop. The minimum wage plus the new-easy unionization in Ontario will frighten off even the most stalwart

Quote

Wynne's Ontario Liberals know a $15 minimum wage will kill thousands of jobs

2) Yes, and since we're both prone to hyperbolic speech I will straighten up and acknowledge that you are correct in the core complaint and prediction, and that it is unfolding now for us to review.

Quote

As the Liberals continue their efforts to destroy Ontario's economy, [Argus]

Argus · May 12, 2018

5 hours ago, Michael Hardner said:

1) I concur that I am being hyperbolic but here are some examples of doom-saying:

http://business.financialpost.com/executive/careers/0612-biz-hl-levittwkpl

http://business.financialpost.com/opinion/matthew-lau-wynnes-ontario-liberals-know-a-15-minimum-wage-will-kill-thousands-of-jobs-but-theyre-doing-it-anyway

2) Yes, and since we're both prone to hyperbolic speech I will straighten up and acknowledge that you are correct in the core complaint and prediction, and that it is unfolding now for us to review.

Mine wasn't hyperbole but mockery and sarcasm.

betsy · May 14, 2018

On forming a coalition:

Quote

"I'm not going to work with any party that wants to roll back corporate taxes, or that wants to make it harder for everyday families," Horwath said.

But like Wynne, Horwath also said it's impossible to say anything definitive before the election results have come in.

"We're going to wait until June 7 before we make any decisions," she said.

https://www.ctvnews.ca/politics/ontario-liberals-and-ndp-says-it-s-too-early-to-decide-on-possible-coalition-1.3927679

yada-yada-yada.........in the end, Horwath's saying that forming a coalition with the Liberals is not out of the question!

Oh.....seasoned politicians do have a way spinning around voters, eh? Never mind this double talk! We need real change!

They're spitting out the same things! Horwath and Wynne are both from the same old same old.

Boy, if ever they form a coalition - just imagine having these two in a majority position!

Edited May 14, 2018 by betsy

Argus · May 14, 2018

I said some time ago that the only way a conservative party could win power would be with a majority. If they have a minority the Liberals and NDP will get together and form a coalition so they can go on frantically borrowing and spending money. I'm certain this is the case on the federal scene now too. There is simply too much violent intolerance and hatred of anything approaching even mild conservatism now on the part of the left. The thought of a 'non progressive' taking power horrifies them.

BubberMiley · May 14, 2018

1 hour ago, Argus said:

I said some time ago that the only way a conservative party could win power would be with a majority. If they have a minority the Liberals and NDP will get together and form a coalition so they can go on frantically borrowing and spending money. I'm certain this is the case on the federal scene now too. There is simply too much violent intolerance and hatred of anything approaching even mild conservatism now on the part of the left. The thought of a 'non progressive' taking power horrifies them.

Violent? Hyperbole much? Maybe it's the overall trumpiness of conservative candidates these days. If you aren't responsible enough to nominate adults, how can you expect the rest of us to go along with you?

Argus · May 14, 2018

2 hours ago, BubberMiley said:

Violent? Hyperbole much? Maybe it's the overall trumpiness of conservative candidates these days. If you aren't responsible enough to nominate adults, how can you expect the rest of us to go along with you?

Adults like Kathleen Wynne and Justin Trudeau? Yeah, okay.

taxme · May 14, 2018

On 5/12/2018 at 4:13 AM, betsy said:

Boy....if ever Horwath manages to win......she'll be much worse than Wynn (spend-wise). She is SOCIALIST! Ontario will lose business investors!

There'll be no more hope for Ontario at all. We'll never be able to dig ourselves out from that monstrous debt.

Best thing for all Christian conservative straight white minded people is to move out of that hell hole of a province that the liberals and the socialists have created for themselves. Let the province go belly up. It will look good on them. When Ontario was a mainly WASP province it was in pretty dam good shape and was never in debt like what it is today. I don't even know if the people of Ontario could ever get out of their massive debt unless they take some kind of real drastic conservative right wing action. What will help is to cut taxes as much as possible, get rid of big government and allow more freedom to grow and get rid of many of the countless and stifling rules and regulations that are destroying jobs and employment from being created. It possibly could be done but a lot of people are going to have to bite the bullet. The major struggle in order to bite the bullet will be to have to take on the lying liberal/socialist media and political party's who's aim will be to lie about everything that the conservatives need to do and they will try to do their best to see that the conservative program and agenda does not happen. Liberals/socialists love big government, more taxes, and less freedoms. It's all about power and control a la communism. To those misfits, we the people must be shown that they are the slaves and we are their masters. What would be great would be to see Horwath and Wynne standing in the front of the gates to hell as they start to open. Just saying.

BubberMiley · May 14, 2018

Ford has made more big, expensive promises than either the Liberals and the NDP. He has even promised to reduce Hydro bills by more than 12% without any numbers to explain how he would do it. He has even said he would get rid of the tax on minimum wage earners. Again, with no explanation on how he'd pay for it. It's even bigger government but with a total lack of accountability.

capricorn · May 15, 2018

3 hours ago, BubberMiley said:

Ford has made more big, expensive promises than either the Liberals and the NDP. He has even promised to reduce Hydro bills by more than 12% without any numbers to explain how he would do it. He has even said he would get rid of the tax on minimum wage earners. Again, with no explanation on how he'd pay for it. It's even bigger government but with a total lack of accountability.

So what. All three parties are in a bidding war to bribe voters for their support. Why would PCs not play the game that has been so profitable for the Liberals?

Centerpiece · May 15, 2018

Tax the Rich? If people only knew........it's called killing the goose that laid the golden egg (AKA the law of unintended consequences)..

Quote

Measuring the Distribution of Taxes in Canada: Do the Rich Pay Their “Fair Share”? finds that this year, the top 20 per cent of income earners in Canada—families with an annual income greater than $186,875—will earn 49.1 per cent of all income in Canada but pay 55.9 per cent of all taxes including not just income taxes, but payroll taxes, sales taxes and property taxes, among others.

The discrepancy is even more pronounced for the top one per cent of earners. While this group will pay 14.7 per cent of all taxes in 2017 (up from 11.3 per cent in 1997), it will earn a smaller percentage (10.7 per cent) of all income.

By comparison, the bottom 50 per cent of income-earning families in Canada earn 20 per cent of all income, but pay just 14.6 per cent of all taxes.

When looking at income taxes alone, the top one per cent will pay 17.9 per cent of all federal and provincial income taxes, while the bottom 50 per cent will pay nine per cent of all income taxes this year.

Link: https://www.fraserinstitute.org/studies/measuring-the-distribution-of-taxes-in-canada

betsy · May 17, 2018

No doubt about it........Horwath will not bring change. She is just another Wynne. A cuter, smiley version of Wynne - but that's not the kinda change we mean, don't we?

Quote

Andrea Horwath defends party's big-spending platform

To help pay for this plan the province will need to run deficits over the next five years and hike taxes for high-income earners.

On Tuesday, the CBC's poll tracker had the NDP at a 0.1 per cent chance of winning the June election, a far cry from the 91.9 per cent probability of a PC majority.

Horwath said the numbers are a sign that Ontarians want a change in leadership.

"I believe Doug Ford will drag this province backwards. I don't think that's what we need for Ontario. That's the message of hope that I have for the people of the province. Change, but change for the better," she said.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/ottawa/andrea-horwath-party-platform-ottawa-morning-1.4622924

Like Wynne, all she's doing is buying votes! She's tone-deaf to what Ontarians want! She's in a bubble - daydreaming!

Andrea, Ontarians want REAL change! A big change.

Voters are not as dumb as you and Wynne think they are, but smart enough to know money don't grow on trees.

We worry about the deficits! We don't want anymore added to the pile we've got now!

Listen!

Quote

Majority of Tory, Liberal and NDP voters prefer spending cuts to deficits: Ipsos poll

https://globalnews.ca/news/4211249/ontario-election-spending-cuts-deficits-poll/

Edited May 17, 2018 by betsy

Michael Hardner · May 17, 2018

On 5/14/2018 at 8:47 PM, Centerpiece said:

Tax the Rich? If people only knew........it's called killing the goose that laid the golden egg (AKA the law of unintended consequences)..

We have heard this threat before. Are the wealthy going to move to Somalia to lower their tax rate ? No, they will stay in a nice country where they can enjoy their status and feel appreciation for their benefaction.

Also - top marginal rates in the past were much higher FYI. Top marginal tax rate in Canada in 1920 was 72.5 % ! Also, you are not speaking to government policy that increases revenue for top earners and investors in the first place.

Centerpiece · May 17, 2018

1 hour ago, Michael Hardner said:

We have heard this threat before. Are the wealthy going to move to Somalia to lower their tax rate ? No, they will stay in a nice country where they can enjoy their status and feel appreciation for their benefaction.

Also - top marginal rates in the past were much higher FYI. Top marginal tax rate in Canada in 1920 was 72.5 % ! Also, you are not speaking to government policy that increases revenue for top earners and investors in the first place.

Not really a threat - just a logical fact. It's a popular mantra - tax the rich. It's the other side of the simplistic populism that people accuse Doug Ford of using. Point is, the higher taxes get, the more a "behavioral" effect comes into play. Accountants are pretty smart and the "rich" pay them for advice. What behavior might come into play - aside from legal accounting/investment changes that might come into play? Retire early? Work less hours? Find more ways to defer income? Move to another Province (but not Somalia)?

And who says the Tax the Rich mantra will end with the Ontario NDP's "chip in a bit more" euphemism. Trudeau's Liberals are heading into the financial ditch - how long before they try to pull the same shenanigans?

One thing is certain - the NDP would NOT pull in as much revenue as planned - because of that behavioral push-back. As I said, it's the Law of Unintended Consequences.

Michael Hardner · May 17, 2018

15 minutes ago, Centerpiece said:

One thing is certain - the NDP would NOT pull in as much revenue as planned - because of that behavioral push-back. As I said, it's the Law of Unintended Consequences.

It still seems more realistic than Ford's $19B in cuts, including promises for new expenditures and for tax cuts.

Edited May 17, 2018 by Michael Hardner

Centerpiece · May 17, 2018

56 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said:

It still seems more realistic than Ford's $19B in cuts, including promises for new expenditures and for tax cuts.

Who knows. You may prove to be right but history shows that the NDP always has policies (they seldom form government) that veer heavily to spending and deficits. Conservatives tend NOT to veer TOO far from balanced budgets. Choices are tough at all levels. You could take the Trudeau route - promise not to spend too much - and then go crazy like a drunken sailor. Or if you're a cynic, you could say Ford is promising a bunch of spending that he KNOWS he will not be able to deliver. I'll settle for the person who will err on the side of NOT spending. Would be nice to have better choices, wouldn't it. Maybe Bill Davis can come out of retirement?

Michael Hardner · May 17, 2018

5 minutes ago, Centerpiece said:

1) history shows that the NDP always has policies (they seldom form government) that veer heavily to spending and deficits.

2) Conservatives tend NOT to veer TOO far from balanced budgets.

3) then go crazy like a drunken sailor.

1) You are likely basing this on one government - Bob Rae's Ontario Liberals in the 90s - and ignoring the sensible and pragmatic NDP governments of the prairies before that time.

2) Mulroney... Harper... these were conventional PMs. Again you seem to be focusing on Ontario in the 90s where Harris did 'attack' the deficit.

3) Here's the chart, do you see drunken sailor behaviour in this ? You like politics but you probably need to familiarize yourself with some unconventional knowledge.

Argus · May 17, 2018

3 hours ago, Michael Hardner said:

We have heard this threat before. Are the wealthy going to move to Somalia to lower their tax rate ?

No, to the US. Why do you think two thirds of software engineering grads moved south last year?

Argus · May 17, 2018

1 hour ago, Michael Hardner said:

It still seems more realistic than Ford's $19B in cuts, including promises for new expenditures and for tax cuts.

I think Ford learned from Hudak that you don't tell people bad news before an election. In order to get the savings he's going to have to cut spending, and that probably means job cuts, hiring freezes, a freeze on salaries of public sector workers or even a roll-back. How much of which are in the mix depends, to some extent, on how much the real deficit is.