Canada's new visa (eTA = Electronic Travel Authorization)

[August1991]

I just learned about this recently.

When all visa-exempt foreigners now travel to Canada by air, they must first obtain an "eTA". It is like a visa for citizens from countries where there is no visa requirement to enter Canada. (eg. someone from the UK). Foreigners obtain it online (it costs $7 so they must have access to a credit card). The exceptions are American citizens and any foreigner with permanent residence status in Canada. Foreigners from countries with a visa requirement (eg. someone from Ukraine) do not need an eTA because the visa in their passport is the equivalent.

This new eTA policy was supposed to come into effect in March 2016 but the federal Liberals extended the deadline to November 2016. The policy was enacted under the Harper government in 2013.

=====

I think that this is excellent policy. Entry to Canada should not be based on nationality but rather on the bona-fides of the foreigner who wants to come here.  By requiring all Ukrainian citizens to obtain a visa before visiting Canada but exempting all UK citizens from the need of a visa, we are using 19th century thinking to screen visitors. In this modern world, we should be screening individuals, not nationalities. Someone with an Icelandic or Japanese passport is very unlikely to be a risk to Canada. But simply having a UK passport is no guarantee of bona-fides.

It's a question of information. Does the federal government bureaucracy have sufficient information to screen individual foreigners? Well, their ability can't be worse than simply using nationality as the screening mechanism.

In the future, this eTA policy could mean that Canada would lift formal visa requirements for foreigners with a Ukraine, Mexico passport for example - since we could vet foreigners from these countries with the eTA instead.

[Wilber]

Cheap, Australia charges $20. Guess it gives a bit more time to check someone out if they ring any bells.

[Michael Hardner]

15 hours ago, August1991 said:

1) It's a question of information. Does the federal government bureaucracy have sufficient information to screen individual foreigners? Well, their ability can't be worse than simply using nationality as the screening mechanism.

2) In the future, this eTA policy could mean that Canada would lift formal visa requirements for foreigners with a Ukraine, Mexico passport for example - since we could vet foreigners from these countries with the eTA instead.

1) You are missing a key point here.  'Screening' is something one does to strangers.  In the digital age, there will be no strangers.  Not having a digital presence will be akin to being a ghost.

2) Log In using your Facebook ID ?  Do you know how many people are on Facebook now ?  Digital reputation will be used to re-build the idea of a public person and destroy the 'masses'.  McLuhan taught against labelling such things as 'good' and 'bad' so i won't do that here.  But I will point out that our western democracy was created by philosophical Americans who bought into the writings of the French.  They had no technology that invoked 'masses' and so our entire system was built for 'publics'.  As such, the new model will be a better fit for how we do things.

[Wilber]

What about us who have no interest in a Facebook, Instagram, Twitter or any other social media account. Will we be ghosts?

[Michael Hardner]

49 minutes ago, Wilber said:

What about us who have no interest in a Facebook, Instagram, Twitter or any other social media account. Will we be ghosts?

Yes.  Like people who didn't want to have phones, or chequing accounts 30 years ago.  My friend's dad bought a house without a bank account somehow (or something like that) because he didn't trust banks.  

[bush_cheney2004]

6 hours ago, Wilber said:

What about us who have no interest in a Facebook, Instagram, Twitter or any other social media account. Will we be ghosts?

 

No...we will still have short wave and Citizen's Band radios.

Edited July 14, 2017 by bush_cheney2004

[Wilber]

1 hour ago, Michael Hardner said:

Yes.  Like people who didn't want to have phones, or chequing accounts 30 years ago.  My friend's dad bought a house without a bank account somehow (or something like that) because he didn't trust banks.  

 

I think these things let people be more anti social. They no longer have to communicate on a personal level.

Call someone on a phone, they don't answer. Text them and they get right back to you.

Sorry for the thread drift.

Edited July 14, 2017 by Wilber

[Michael Hardner]

3 minutes ago, Wilber said:

 

1) I think these things let people be more anti social. They no longer have to communicate on a personal level.

2) Call someone on a phone, they don't answer. Text them and they get right back to you.

3) Sorry for the thread drift.

1) Television took people out of the social sphere starting in 1950.  Stats on church attendance, civic clubs and so on show less socialization which I believe is due to TV.

2) You are still interacting via text and social media.  You can even interact with strangers.  Like me.

3) I think this is on task.  'Electronic' is the age were are now closing out. 

[Wilber]

TV is one way communication. There is a big difference between human and electronic communication, that's why many people would rather text than actually have to speak to each other even though texting is a lousy way to communicate. Slow and cumbersome.

[capricorn]

4 hours ago, Wilber said:

Slow and cumbersome.

That's what happens when you use your thumbs to type out a message on keys meant to fit your small fingers.

[OftenWrong]

On 2017-07-13 at 3:41 PM, August1991 said:

=====

I think that this is excellent policy. Entry to Canada should not be based on nationality but rather on the bona-fides of the foreigner who wants to come here.  By requiring all Ukrainian citizens to obtain a visa before visiting Canada but exempting all UK citizens from the need of a visa, we are using 19th century thinking to screen visitors. In this modern world, we should be screening individuals, not nationalities. Someone with an Icelandic or Japanese passport is very unlikely to be a risk to Canada. But simply having a UK passport is no guarantee of bona-fides.

It's a question of information. Does the federal government bureaucracy have sufficient information to screen individual foreigners? Well, their ability can't be worse than simply using nationality as the screening mechanism.

In the future, this eTA policy could mean that Canada would lift formal visa requirements for foreigners with a Ukraine, Mexico passport for example - since we could vet foreigners from these countries with the eTA instead.

It's my understanding that the whole security apparatus depends on international cooperation from allied countries who have the ability to track persons entering, living in and leaving their countries. This becomes a world-wide security web. Most countries are on board and able to provide the quality of information necessary to "vet" a person who is entering or leaving, and share this info with Canada.

Point is the ability for a foreigner to use an eTA depends on whether the level of security in their country of origin is up to this standard that is considered to be trustworthy. Otherwise they apply for a visa and are carefully scrutinized. So for the eTA to be used in a place like the Ukraine or Mexico, those countries have to improve their reputation for security screening. Some regions are not well developed, they have marginal government oversight, unsettled areas, nomads, lawless areas. For example Somalians won't be eligible for an eTA any time soon.

Nor will they be signing up an account on Facebook.

[Wilber]

4 hours ago, capricorn said:

That's what happens when you use your thumbs to type out a message on keys meant to fit your small fingers.

A three year old 's fingers maybe but not mine. The only advantage to text is that it gives you an oportunity to think before you send but many don't even do that.

 

[August1991]

On 7/13/2017 at 10:57 PM, Wilber said:

Cheap, Australia charges $20. Guess it gives a bit more time to check someone out if they ring any bells.

Australia, like North Korea, has always required a visa of all foreigners entering their country. (For a foreigner, a visa typically means a visit to a consulate/embassy and a stamp in a passport.)

This policy is different: some foreign visitors to Canada (based on nationality/passport) require a formal visa, stamp in passport (eg. Ukrainian citizens - but now all visitors (excepting Americans) require an eTA. (Note to Ukrainian citizens: You get your eTA when you get your visa.) 

The effect is that we can screen individuals better. 

Edited July 15, 2017 by August1991

[August1991]

19 hours ago, Michael Hardner said:

1) You are missing a key point here.  'Screening' is something one does to strangers.  In the digital age, there will be no strangers.  Not having a digital presence will be akin to being a ghost.

2) Log In using your Facebook ID ?  Do you know how many people are on Facebook now ?  Digital reputation will be used to re-build the idea of a public person and destroy the 'masses'.  McLuhan taught against labelling such things as 'good' and 'bad' so i won't do that here.  But I will point out that our western democracy was created by philosophical Americans who bought into the writings of the French.  They had no technology that invoked 'masses' and so our entire system was built for 'publics'.  As such, the new model will be a better fit for how we do things.

Michael, like me in my OP,  you are imagining ideas well ahead of current bureaucratic screening processes.

Before this eTA policy, anyone with a UK or Belgian or French passport could board a plane and fly to Canada - basically enter Canada without restriction.

Now, at least, with eTA, our bureaucrats can possibly vet these visa-exempt, passport holders.

Edited July 15, 2017 by August1991

[August1991]

8 hours ago, OftenWrong said:

It's my understanding that the whole security apparatus depends on international cooperation from allied countries who have the ability to track persons entering, living in and leaving their countries. This becomes a world-wide security web. Most countries are on board and able to provide the quality of information necessary to "vet" a person who is entering or leaving, and share this info with Canada.

Point is the ability for a foreigner to use an eTA depends on whether the level of security in their country of origin is up to this standard that is considered to be trustworthy. Otherwise they apply for a visa and are carefully scrutinized. So for the eTA to be used in a place like the Ukraine or Mexico, those countries have to improve their reputation for security screening. Some regions are not well developed, they have marginal government oversight, unsettled areas, nomads, lawless areas. For example Somalians won't be eligible for an eTA any time soon.

Nor will they be signing up an account on Facebook.

OftenWrong, there is a much easier way to understand this, and Facebook is a minor part of the co-operation between States: if you pay your taxes in France and/or in Canada (for example - France!), you're clean.

But if you claimed that you paid taxes in Dubai, if I were working in the CRA, I'd completely ignore your claim - unless you want to renounce Canadian citiizenship.

Whether it's Al Capone or Obama bin Laden, and I really hate this phrase because it is so American Leftist: follow the money.

=====

Here's my view of citizenship, and it's not the Trudeau Snr/Jnr view, if you want to be a Canadian citizen, then you must be willing to pay Canadian taxes.

Edited July 15, 2017 by August1991

[Wilber]

7 hours ago, August1991 said:

Australia, like North Korea, has always required a visa of all foreigners entering their country. (For a foreigner, a visa typically means a visit to a consulate/embassy and a stamp in a passport.)

This policy is different: some foreign visitors to Canada (based on nationality/passport) require a formal visa, stamp in passport (eg. Ukrainian citizens - but now all visitors (excepting Americans) require an eTA. (Note to Ukrainian citizens: You get your eTA when you get your visa.) 

The effect is that we can screen individuals better. 

I'm agreeing with you. Australia has been using this for years. You get it on line and pay with a credit card.  The visa is matched to your passport and shows up on their computer when you enter the country. It costs $20 AUD and is good for multiple entries over 12 months.

Edited July 15, 2017 by Wilber