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Providing proof/evidence that supports the US 911 Conspiracy Theory


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47 minutes ago, Reg said:

I'm not going to research every claim you make on this conspiracy hot enough, I'm not very invested in this.

And if you do you will have no trouble finding evidence to refute each of those claims. And so it does become boring. It seems once you allow yourself to be sucked into a conspiracy theory, there's no turning back. 

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9 minutes ago, Omni said:

And if you do you will have no trouble finding evidence to refute each of those claims.

But all this "evidence" you find can/will never be posted here in the very thread meant for evidence supporting the US government 911 Conspiracy Theory. 

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Just now, hot enough said:

But all this "evidence" you find can/will never be posted here in the very thread meant for evidence supporting the US government 911 Conspiracy Theory. 

Already been posted, a number of times. And by more than just me. But hey, it's your rabbit hole.

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Omni has never provided any evidence, nor has Michael, Rue, Wilber, OftenWrong, ... .

Reg is the only person who has ever attempted to offer actual evidence.

Study of the seismic wave data reveals that the low 2.0+ magnitude Richter scale measurements coincide perfectly in timing with huge subterranean explosions witnessed and described by Willie Rodriguez in WTC1 and fireman Richard Banaciski in WTC2. The scientists "demonstrate that only strong explosives could be the cause of such seismic waves" , ie. the signals received by the LDEO lab 34 km from ground zero were only capable of being from powerful sub earth explosions. 

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As for the Twin Towers, it appears they were first weakened by explosions at their base at the moment the airplanes crashed into them. After that we must distinguish between the parts of the building above the impact zone of the planes and those located below. If the seismic waves could not have been generated by the explosions visible in the floors (which allowed for the gradual collapse upwards above the impact zone and downwards below this zone), then only a powerful explosion at the base of WTC2 and a subterranean one under WTC1 could have produced the observed seismic waves.

These basal explosions would facilitate the total, rapid disintegrations of the buildings. In the case of WTC1, the Federal Emergency Management Agency (FEMA) implicitly confirmed this scenario. They noted,

"Review of videotape recordings of the collapse taken from various angles indicates that the transmission tower on top of the structure began to move downward and laterally slightly before movement was evident at the exterior wall. This suggests that collapse began with one or more failures in the central core area of the building" (FEMA, World Trade Center Building Performance Study, Chapter 2).

This transmission tower was supported by a lattice of large diagonal I-beams, called a "hat truss," that connected the walls of the perimeter of the building to the central structure between the 107th floor and the roof, and therefore reinforced the central structure.

Contrary to official findings that it was the hat truss that transferred the instability of the central columns to those of the perimeter, which then gave out after they were deformed because of the pulling of the floors, the logic of the events forces us to consider that the rupture of the central columns came from an explosive event at the base of the building prior to its collapse.

http://www.journalof911studies.com/were-explosives-the-source-of-the-seismic-signals-emitted-from-new-york-on-september-11-2001/

 

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15 minutes ago, OftenWrong said:

... nor has hot enough.

An outright lie, OftenWrong. Either you can't read or you aren't adult enough to face up to reality for there is lots of evidence in the previous pages, some from Reg, but none from you or any of the other science deniers I specifically mentioned. Maybe the big print will help you. 

The seismic signals don't match up to reality, which means they don't match the US government wacky conspiracy theory, OftenWrong. 

"As for the Twin Towers, it appears they were first weakened by explosions at their base at the moment the airplanes crashed into them. After that we must distinguish between the parts of the building above the impact zone of the planes and those located below. If the seismic waves could not have been generated by the explosions visible in the floors (which allowed for the gradual collapse upwards above the impact zone and downwards below this zone), then only a powerful explosion at the base of WTC2 and a subterranean one under WTC1 could have produced the observed seismic waves.

These basal explosions would facilitate the total, rapid disintegrations of the buildings. In the case of WTC1, the Federal Emergency Management Agency (FEMA) implicitly confirmed this scenario.

http://www.journalof911studies.com/were-explosives-the-source-of-the-seismic-signals-emitted-from-new-york-on-september-11-2001/

Edited by hot enough
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5 hours ago, hot enough said:

Please try to be clear about what you are saying, eyeball.

Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence and responsibility for this is still very very deep in your territory.

OTOH simple claims are usually self-evident i.e. 9/11 was the result foreign policy blowback. That's not to say the US government isn't responsible which is what you're essentially also saying right?

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20 hours ago, Michael Hardner said:

Also why this part of the plot was necessary, who would execute it, and why, and why all the security guards in one building who presumably knew agreed to stay put, and die.

Moles.

Lol. Clearly we go to the same therapist.  Mr. H, I could pretty much believe anything I theory but in reality I think governments are fallible and having worked in them know how many layers of us there were making mistakes and not being coordinated. This idea government is all powerful and all knowing and can protect us so if such a catastrophe happened it only could be by the government is for me amusing and sad. Its amusing in its naivite but its sad. In Israel its government wishes it could be so effective it could forsee and prevent terrorist attacks. No one can 100% prevent them as you are aware.  Hell we see now how much damage a truck can do right? Its scary how fragile we all really are from nut cases but in Israel the people have learned to live with that reality just like London did during WW2 or during the IRA campaign, etc.

I wish I genuinely do your grandchildren's grandchildren would not have to inherit this. Let's hope they are there.

Moles indeed. Anyways today I am genuinely grateful my ancestors came to Canada. Its a hell of a thing to  live in a free country.

Cheers to you and all the forum members on July 1 on that thought.

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20 hours ago, eyeball said:

Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence and responsibility for this is still very very deep in your territory.

What you say is correct. The evidence has been provided but it's clear that not a one of you, with the possible exception of Gost Hacked and Reg, are even capable of addressing that evidence. It seems that it has even become too much for Reg.

You are in a state of deep self delusion. All the science says the US official story is impossible. But not a one of you wants to discuss the absolute impossibilities inherent in the US official conspiracy theory

You provide no proof/evidence to support the US government conspiracy theory. There were no phone calls. The box cutters nonsense came from Ted Olson's wife, Barbara, who he said he talked to but the FBI says the calls connected for zero seconds. 

The following too, [in RED], says the US government official conspiracy theory, the one that actually requires extraordinary evidence, which does NOT, in fact, exist. This too, none of you are willing to address. 

1. Near the times of the planes' impacts into the Twin Towers and during their collapses, as well as during the collapse of WTC7, seismic waves were generated.

2.To the degree that (1) seismic waves are created only by brief impulses and (2) low frequencies are associated with energy of a magnitude that is comparable to a seismic event, the waves recorded at Palisades and analyzed by LDEO undeniably have an explosive origin.

3. Even if the planes' impacts and the fall of the debris from the Towers onto the ground could have generated seismic waves, their magnitude would have been insufficient to be recorded 34 km away and should have been very similar in the two cases to one another. As we have shown, they were not.

http://www.journalof911studies.com/were-explosives-the-source-of-the-seismic-signals-emitted-from-new-york-on-september-11-2001/

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OTOH simple claims are usually self-evident i.e. 9/11 was the result foreign policy blowback. That's not to say the US government isn't responsible which is what you're essentially also saying right?

No, that is not at all what I am saying. There were no Arab hijackers. Still not a lick of evidence to show there was and volumes of evidence to show there weren't. How you folks can maintain, what is essentially a dog and pony show, illustrates such incredible delusion it is like it is out of the twilight zone. 

Given the fact that before September 11, 2001 no high-rise steel-frame building has ever collapsed from fire alone (Taylor, 2011), extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof. The NIST Reports did not address the total collapse of the Twin Towers, truncating their study at “collapse initiation.” Overall, our peer-reviewed literature results collectively yield a very strong prima facie argument for CD. [CD = Controlled Demolition] 

http://www.journalof911studies.com/resources/2013EastmanColeVol37Apr.pdf

You seek to put the onus upon the truth seekers to provide this extraordinary proof but you and the folks who support the US conspiracy theory are not even willing to look at the proof/evidence that has been compiled. It is overwhelming both in volume and in in supporting the Controlled Demolition scenario. 

But you all are willing to accept, unquestioningly, that the official story is based on a "scientific" paper that was scratched out on on the back of an envelope and "published" on September 13, 2001, two days after 911.

You are ALL willing to accept, also unquestioningly, the fact that NIST has, after years of study, nothing to describe/show/prove the collapse of the twin towers, except "A MIRACLE HAPPENED"!

A deep, detailed, two year forensic study of the NIST WTC7 report says that that report has a ZERO CHANCE OF BEING ACCURATE! 

Why are you all still so enamored by such incredibly horrible science?

 

 

Edited by hot enough
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7 hours ago, Rue said:

Lol. Clearly we go to the same therapist.  Mr. H, I could pretty much believe anything I theory but in reality I think governments are fallible and having worked in them know how many layers of us there were making mistakes and not being coordinated. This idea government is all powerful and all knowing and can protect us so if such a catastrophe happened it only could be by the government is for me amusing and sad. Its amusing in its naivite but its sad. In Israel its government wishes it could be so effective it could forsee and prevent terrorist attacks. No one can 100% prevent them as you are aware.  Hell we see now how much damage a truck can do right? Its scary how fragile we all really are from nut cases but in Israel the people have learned to live with that reality just like London did during WW2 or during the IRA campaign, etc.

I wish I genuinely do your grandchildren's grandchildren would not have to inherit this. Let's hope they are there.

Moles indeed. Anyways today I am genuinely grateful my ancestors came to Canada. Its a hell of a thing to  live in a free country.

Cheers to you and all the forum members on July 1 on that thought.

A "lawyer" brushes aside all the tangible, hard physical evidence in favor of bodiless, immaterial, incorporeal, insubstantial, unsubstantial, ethereal, unreal evidence.

Right after he has been shown that "his evidence" was all pure fiction, hearsay, lies, ... .

Need any more proof of the deep delusion?

Edited by hot enough
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11 minutes ago, hot enough said:
"He who does not bellow out the truth when he knows the truth makes himself the accomplice of liars and forgers."
- Charles Peguy
 
So true, Charles.
 
 

And he who buys into unsubstantiated conspiracy theories will be flailing forever.

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On 6/30/2017 at 6:03 PM, eyeball said:

And it's always the same with so many positive claimants...the expectation that it's up to everyone else to prove them wrong.

That is how science works, eyeball. How has this escaped you? Why do you science deniers totally ignore things/facts/situations that make the US conspiracy theory a totally impossible event, setting aside totally, the fact that the story itself is impossible. 

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The integrity of science itself is compromised when an argument that proceeds from authority alone is given precedence over the presentation of relevant, demonstrable facts (e.g., more than a hundred documented reports of explosions (MacQueen, 2012)), or even basic laws of physics (e.g., violations of conservation of energy and momentum, see Grabbe (2012)).

...

The first submitted draft paper on the mechanism of collapse is that by Bazant, submitted September 13, 2001 (see first entry of Table 2, including its footnote). It is our professional opinion that, by any measure, a responsible, professional research paper on this complex event that was not begun until September 11 could not have been completed and submitted by September 13.

http://www.journalof911studies.com/resources/2013EastmanColeVol37Apr.pdf

 

Why can't you anti-truthers look at how this thread has proceeded - much evidence from me that shows the US conspiracy theory is not possible and NONE, NO EVIDENCE from any of the supporters of the US conspiracy theory?

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3 hours ago, hot enough said:

Why are you all still so enamored by such incredibly horrible science?

I'm not the least bit enamoured by the governments official 'they hate our freedoms/ideology of evil" shtick.

As for the CD theory, I don't buy it simply because of the number of scientist's who do is extraordinarily small.

And lest you forget what I've said before, I certainly wouldn't put it past some of the venal characters that have been in power in the US to dream something like this up but then I have to get past the government incompetency factor.

It just never adds up.

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9 hours ago, eyeball said:

I'm not the least bit enamoured by the governments official 'they hate our freedoms/ideology of evil" shtick.

As for the CD theory, I don't buy it simply because of the number of scientist's who do is extraordinarily small.

Again, you don't know of what you speak.Silence does not in any way mean acquiescence. You're not "the least bit enamoured by the governments official 'they hate our freedoms/ideology of evil" shtick" so what on earth are you enamoured by? Because there is nothing else. Have you not noticed that no one can provide any evidence for the USGOCT? 

Have you not noticed that there is proof/evidence that makes the USGOCT complete nonsense?

1) Proof of a super thermite that is ONLY US government controlled.

2) Proof of its existence at WTC. 

3) Proof of its use - nothing else legitimate/no other fuel could have created the molten/vaporized metals with melting points high above the possible jet fuel/office furnishings temperatures.

4) Three buildings collapsing from fires on the same day when it has never happened before or since. 

5) No changes in any steel framed high rise fire codes. No one actually believes the three collapses were possible.

6) No changes in fire insurance costs - no underwriters in the fire insurance business believe the three were possible, and they too are too frightened to expose the fraud, though they would love to add on higher insurance rates.

7) Seismic data shows that the only thing possible for the seismic signals that reached Lamont-Doherty Earth Observatory of Columbia University (LDEO) were caused by powerful explosions -

"Given that neither the crashes into the towers, nor their vibration, nor the fall of debris can be the source of the seismic waves registered 34 kilometres away, as well as the fact that the low frequencies of those waves could not have been generated by such phenomena, we must search for the actual causes of the waveforms observed. Only explosions could produce the waves observed but various possible explosive configurations must be considered. We must distinguish between 1) subterranean explosions, 2) aerial explosions and 3) subaerial explosions (close to the ground without touching it)."

 which coincide perfectly in time with the reported subterranean/basal explosions of William Rodriguez and fireman, Richard Banaciski, "who was in the street facing WTC2".

Remember that NIST totally denied that there were any bombs or sounds of explosions despite those being described by 118 firemen, those explosions being recorded on news media reports, media reporters telling of explosions, ... . 

NIST also totally denied any molten/vaporized steel when there are myriad reports from ground zero workers, structural engineers, CD experts, FEMA, ... .

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And lest you forget what I've said before, I certainly wouldn't put it past some of the venal characters that have been in power in the US to dream something like this up but then I have to get past the government incompetency factor.

It just never adds up.

I haven't forgotten at all that you have said that, nor can I forget that "what I've said before", combined with the voluminous evidence presented to you here [which is only a small portion] can still find you, again, forgive me for I mean no offense, in such a delusional position. 

What "just never adds up" is the US Government Official Conspiracy Theory, yet people are scared to death to even mention it, let alone discuss it, scientists too. 

How can that be, in our free, open and honest western society? Remember, we aren't supposed to be closed, totalitarian societies. The Islamaphobes scream for the right to discuss openly and honestly all things but they seek to shut down any discussion of 911 and its resulting war crimes/western terrorism/millions of deaths/... .

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1 hour ago, hot enough said:

What "just never adds up" is the US Government Official Conspiracy Theory, yet people are scared to death to even mention it, let alone discuss it, scientists too. 

 

There is only one thing that prevents the official reason for adding up, the recognition that 9/11 was a provoked retaliation. That's it, that's all there is to it. Your conspiracy goes a long long way towards preventing that discussion from taking place.

 

How can that be, in our free, open and honest western society?

I figure it's because conservatives can't apologize.

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35 minutes ago, eyeball said:

There is only one thing that prevents the official reason for adding up, the recognition that 9/11 was a provoked retaliation. That's it, that's all there is to it. Your conspiracy goes a long long way towards preventing that discussion from taking place.

Why do you keep engaging in this patent dishonesty, even after it has been pointed out to you? It is not "my conspiracy".

What kind of delusion is it that can't recognize that the US government story is the wacky conspiracy theory. It has not a lick of evidence to support it, only myriad gigantic lies support it, volumes of hard, irrefutable science knocks it apart and still you and the others go on in your delusions. 

It is YOUR [the wide plural 'your'] conspiracy that prevents the needed discussions from taking place, Those who believe in truth, science and wide open free discussions are not preventing anything. They are asking for a real investigation, real discussion, real openness. 

How can you continue to ignore so much science and advance such deep illogic? 

How can you continue to ignore that there has been ZERO evidence adduced in support of the USGOCT?

 

Edited by hot enough
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