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Women Who Cover Their Faces Shouldn't Be accepted To Enter Canada!


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12 minutes ago, CITIZEN_2015 said:

 

They have the freedom in Canada yes, but they don't exercise that freedom by covering the face and they continue to represent symbol of repression of women.

 

 

They have the freedom in Canada to either wear it or not.  Telling them they *must* remove their face covering or go back to their country also removes their freedom.  

You can claim you are doing it it 'for them', because it's a symbol of oppression, but in reality it's for yourself - you are uncomfortable seeing a woman with her face covered and you have decided that it's up to her to conform to your comfort.    In those countries where hijab or niqab is a requirement for women, the women are also told 'it's for their own good', because other people (men) are uncomfortable with women who show their hair or their face or too much skin and so it's up to her to conform to their comfort.   If you want to address female oppression in Islam, you can't do it by oppressing in the opposite direction.  You can do it by providing an environment where women are free to choose, and then you give them the time and space to make that choice and respect the choice they make, even if you don't like it.   

 

 

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Yes but I am not saying they should remove it or have to go back home. I am saying they should not have come here at the first place.

I never claim doing anything for them. Yes I feel uncomfortable because as I said they represent a symbol of women's repression where women are being attacked and beaten if they refuse to comply to strict rules. 

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1 minute ago, CITIZEN_2015 said:

Yes but I am not saying they should remove it or have to go back home. I am saying they should not have come here at the first place.

 

 

Even more so, this is about *your* comfort level, not female oppression.  You say:  "I don't want to see them here, and so I don't even care to give them the opportunity to learn a freer and less oppressive way of life.  They either conform to what I want, or they stay out of my sight".

2 minutes ago, CITIZEN_2015 said:

Yes I feel uncomfortable because as I said they represent a symbol of women's repression where women are being attacked and beaten if they refuse to comply to strict rules. 

2

Their oppressors are very glad that you are so distressed about these women's lot in life that you would refuse them a safe place to learn that oppression does not need to be a fact of their life.  Good on ya, they say.

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First off Canada has an immigration policy. Compatibility is a criteria in that policy. These are not compatible. Second you are either misinformed or deliberately trying to distort the truth, I am saying they are safer where they are because nobody would dislike them or attack them over there where they cover their faces. Those who are unsafe over there are those who are forced to cover hair and likely faces as they will be attacked and beaten, then when they come here they refuse to cover face or hair like the majority of female Muslim immigrants who refuse to given in to repression after they land here. I want a safe place for THEM not for those who are safer where they are.

Edited by CITIZEN_2015
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3 minutes ago, CITIZEN_2015 said:

First off Canada has an immigration policy. Compatibility is a criteria in that policy. These are not compatible. Second you are either misinformed or deliberately trying to distort the truth, I am saying they are safer where they are because nobody would dislike them or attack them over there where they cover their faces. Those who are unsafe over there are those who are forced to cover hair and likely faces as they will be attacked and beaten, then when they come here they refuse to cover face or hair like the majority of female Muslim immigrants who refuse to given in to repression after they land here. I want a safe place for THEM not for those who are safer where they are.

They might get attacked in Syria, or Yemen, or Afghanistan.

Still, I'm with Debonair Dialamah on this one.  You can't tell people what to wear, just because you think is good for them.  They have a choice, regardless of what you (possibly justifiably) think about it.

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You people don't seem to read my posts and keep on saying I tell them what is good for them. I am not saying what is good for anyone. This is not my business. I am saying that they represent symbol of women's repression and incompatible with the existing culture in Canada. Canada must provide refuge to those who are FORCED to wear hijab or niqab or whatever it is called not those who wear it by choice and good majority are from safe zones not war torn areas and are safer where they are back in Arabia.

Edited by CITIZEN_2015
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2 minutes ago, CITIZEN_2015 said:

You people don't seem to read my posts and keep on saying I tell them what is good for them. I am not saying what is good for anyone. This is not my business. I am saying that they represent symbol of women's repression and incompatible with the existing culture in Canada. Canada must provide refuse to those who ae FORCED to wear hijab or niqab or whatever it is called not those who wear it by choice and are safer where they are back in Arabia.

Oh I thought you were saying that there should be no niqab-wearing women in Canada.   My apologies if I misunderstood you.

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3 minutes ago, CITIZEN_2015 said:

You people don't seem to read my posts and keep on saying I tell them what is good for them. I am not saying what is good for anyone. This is not my business. I am saying that they represent symbol of women's repression and incompatible with the existing culture in Canada. Canada must provide refuge to those who are FORCED to wear hijab or niqab or whatever it is called not those who wear it by choice and good majority are from safe zones not war torn areas and are safer where they are back in Arabia.

Sorry, my bad.  I thought you were in favour of banning face coverings, or denying entry to those who insist on wearing them.

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We cannot and must not ban a choice. Not sure where I indicated that. Otherwise we are as bad as those who FORCED hijab and Canada is not a place to ban a personal choice (unless it harms others like drunk driving). What I am saying is that Canada must admit those who are forced to do things against their will and who are compatible with people here (like the majority of Muslim women who are here and have no hijab or niqab and we don't even know they are from Muslim countries because they are not visible) and not admit those who are totally incompatible with the traditions and cultures here based on freedom of choice and equality. Those men who try to force or have no respect for women and those women who try to force others must fail compatibility test. I never suggested deportation of those who choose to wear face cover, however I did ask why they chose to come here while they were among their own culture and people back in Arabia.

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23 minutes ago, bcsapper said:

They might get attacked in Syria, or Yemen, or Afghanistan.

Still, I'm with Debonair Dialamah on this one.  You can't tell people what to wear, just because you think is good for them.  They have a choice, regardless of what you (possibly justifiably) think about it.

But this topic is not about telling people what to wear. This topic is about deciding that if people want to wear that they should not come here in the first place. That, in effect, if that's what you want to wear you are clearly demonstrating your incompatibility with Canadian values.

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1 minute ago, Argus said:

But this topic is not about telling people what to wear. This topic is about deciding that if people want to wear that they should not come here in the first place. That, in effect, if that's what you want to wear you are clearly demonstrating your incompatibility with Canadian values.

I get it, Argus.   You would deny people the opportunity to live a better life because what they wear offends you.  

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42 minutes ago, Argus said:

Unfortunately, that is not true.

Yes this is true. Adaptability scores only 5 points out of the 60+ so it is there but not enough points are given to it. I would raise that to 20 or 30 and raise qualifying to much higher than what it is now.

Edited by CITIZEN_2015
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6 minutes ago, CITIZEN_2015 said:

We cannot and must not ban a choice. Not sure where I indicated that. Otherwise we are as bad as those who FORCED hijab and Canada is not a place to ban a personal choice (unless it harms others like drunk driving). What I am saying is that Canada must admit those who are forced to do things against their will and who are compatible with people here (like the majority of Muslim women who are here and have no hijab or niqab and we don't even know they are from Muslim countries because they are not visible) and not admit those who are totally incompatible with the traditions and cultures here based on freedom of choice and equality. Those men who try to force or have no respect for women and those women who try to force others must fail compatibility test. I never suggested deportation of those who choose to wear face cover, however I did ask why they chose to come here while they were among their own culture and people back in Arabia.

If a women meets all the requirements to come to Canada, and is willing to take off her face covering when requested, (Passports, Driver's Licence, PAL, Public Service, etc) and you want to deny her entry because she chooses to wear it at other times, I suggest that is akin to a ban.

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3 minutes ago, dialamah said:

I get it, Argus.   You would deny people the opportunity to live a better life because what they wear offends you.  

No, you never get it. Immigration is not about denying or helping the aspirations of foreigners. I don't give a damn about their aspirations.

Immigration is about selecting the best fit immigrants for Canada. That means the ones who will perform best economically, and are the best cultural fit.

That our immigrants are neither is why I am a critic of the immigration system.

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Just now, bcsapper said:

If a women meets all the requirements to come to Canada, and is willing to take off her face covering when requested, (Passports, Driver's Licence, PAL, Public Service, etc) and you want to deny her entry because she chooses to wear it at other times, I suggest that is akin to a ban.

So what? What's wrong with banning crazy people from coming here?

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Just now, bcsapper said:

Nothing.  But they let the Scottish in...

I can think of a lot of Scots who contributed greatly to the development of Canada, lot of Irish too...

I'm struggling to think of an Englishman of note...

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2 minutes ago, Argus said:

Immigration is about selecting the best fit immigrants for Canada. That means the ones who will perform best economically, and are the best cultural fit.

Yes. Immigration is for Canada's benefit not Canada for Immigrants' benefits. It seems like current immigration system is the latter not former. I also give a chance to those who may not benefit Canada in short term but work hard and give back a lot in long term. 

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1 minute ago, Argus said:

I can think of a lot of Scots who contributed greatly to the development of Canada, lot of Irish too...

I'm struggling to think of an Englishman of note...

We are quiet, and do our works without approval or acclaim in mind...

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12 minutes ago, bcsapper said:

If a women meets all the requirements to come to Canada, and is willing to take off her face covering when requested, (Passports, Driver's Licence, PAL, Public Service, etc) and you want to deny her entry because she chooses to wear it at other times, I suggest that is akin to a ban.

Hundreds of thousands are denied immigration because they don't qualify so does that mean we ban the poor and the uneducated and the criminals? If they do not qualify (say for adaptability then they are not allowed in for whatever reasons one being adaptability as a small criteria.

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4 minutes ago, CITIZEN_2015 said:

Hundreds of thousands are denied immigration because they don't qualify so does that mean we ban the poor and the uneducated and the criminals? If they do not qualify (say for adaptability then they are not allowed in for whatever reasons one being adaptability as a small criteria.

I did say, meets all the requirements.  If they don't, the head covering is moot.

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That is why I said adaptability should get a lot more than 5 points. The current immigration policy is flawed and needs changing so that immigrants serve Canada rather than the other way round. So you say if they are investors and highly educated and can contribute to Canada's well being and better the lives of Canadians but they CHOOSE to cover their hair and face? Yes they should be allowed in for sure.

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9 minutes ago, CITIZEN_2015 said:

That is why I said adaptability should get a lot more than 5 points. The current immigration policy is flawed and needs changing so that immigrants serve Canada rather than the other way round. So you say if they are investors and highly educated and can contribute to Canada's well being and better the lives of Canadians but they CHOOSE to cover their hair and face? Yes they should be allowed in for sure.

How is the choice of "head covering" not serving Canada?   Consider all the people who wear turbans; they seem to be pretty damn successful economically and politically.   

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If you read my post which you quoted  I did say that if they serve Canada then in spite of covering their head they should be allowed in.

Please do not compare head turban with hijab. The head turban is a CHOICE. Many wear that and still do by choice after they come here. They are educated and successful. Hijab is FORCED and represents symbol of oppression. A majority when they come here they choose not to wear head/face cover. Also Where they come from they are mostly denied of education and equal opportunities (not in Iran and Turkey and Morocco but in most Arab countries) so highly unlikely they will be contributors here. But those tiny minority who I described in my post yes they should be allowed in if there are any.

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