Argus Posted May 16, 2017 Author Report Share Posted May 16, 2017 22 hours ago, dre said: There is absolutely no such thing as a system where there wont be outrageously bad anomalous outcomes. The question is, how does the efficacy of our bail process compare to that of our peers. And the reality is that way to many people are being remanded to custody, and the bail process takes way to long. About 30 thousand people were remanded to custody in Ontario simply because they were not counciled to seek pre-trial release, and because the bail process is plagued by adjournments. Because the entire judicial system is a ragged mess filled with incompetents and massive red tape. It is grossly inefficient, ineffectual, and should be torn down and rebuilt. The absurdity of taking years to get through even the simplest of criminal cases points to a system designed for the profit of lawyers and bureaucrats, not one that will mete out justice except by accident. Anyone who defends it is a party to that injustice. 22 hours ago, dre said: Bail should only not be granted in extreme and rare circumstances when the prosecutor can prove beyond a reasonable doubt that there's either a risk to the public or a risk of flight. This is divorced from reality. The reality is the great majority of people arrested and held are repeat career criminals. It takes three or four years to get to trial now because of the way the Left has destroyed the legal system. If perverts and violent offenders and other street trash know they'll just roll out on bail again and not have to worry about sentencing for years then that sentencing becomes much less of a deterrent. A trial three years away? Phht! I'll just move to another town the day before. 1 Quote "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dialamah Posted May 17, 2017 Report Share Posted May 17, 2017 6 hours ago, Argus said: Can you tell me what law school you graduated from? This from the guy who styles himself an expert on immigration, the legal system, how "leftists" think and how Muslims think. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Omni Posted May 17, 2017 Report Share Posted May 17, 2017 7 minutes ago, dialamah said: This from the guy who styles himself an expert on immigration, the legal system, how "leftists" think and how Muslims think. Did Trump U have a legal dept. I wonder? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Macadoo Posted May 17, 2017 Report Share Posted May 17, 2017 30 minutes ago, Omni said: Did Trump U have a legal dept. I wonder? Naww....didn't you know when you've worked for the gov't everything else is child's play. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Omni Posted May 17, 2017 Report Share Posted May 17, 2017 17 hours ago, Bob Macadoo said: Naww....didn't you know when you've worked for the gov't everything else is child's play. I guess after years of child play, some people might need a new set of "criminals" to go after other than Yosemite Sam and Elmer Fudd, etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blackbird Posted May 19, 2017 Report Share Posted May 19, 2017 On 2017-05-16 at 7:21 PM, dialamah said: This from the guy who styles himself an expert on immigration, the legal system, how "leftists" think and how Muslims think. But you have to admit he makes excellent points. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dialamah Posted May 19, 2017 Report Share Posted May 19, 2017 2 minutes ago, blackbird said: But you have to admit he makes excellent points. Only if one is inclined to believe bullcrap. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Omni Posted May 19, 2017 Report Share Posted May 19, 2017 20 minutes ago, dialamah said: Only if one is inclined to believe bullcrap. I think religious zealots tend to do that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dialamah Posted May 19, 2017 Report Share Posted May 19, 2017 1 hour ago, Omni said: I think religious zealots tend to do that. Any zealot, really. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Omni Posted May 19, 2017 Report Share Posted May 19, 2017 14 minutes ago, dialamah said: Any zealot, really. Actually I think it depends on how you spell the word. I am not Zealot (capitolized, and with regard to religion for instance), but I may be a zealot when it comes to guitars, motorcycles,.......Oh and um, chocolate ice cream . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Argus Posted May 19, 2017 Author Report Share Posted May 19, 2017 9 hours ago, dialamah said: Any zealot, really. Well, you would know. Quote "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dialamah Posted May 19, 2017 Report Share Posted May 19, 2017 40 minutes ago, Argus said: Well, you would know. Yup, see them post here every day. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PIK Posted May 19, 2017 Report Share Posted May 19, 2017 Come on dia and omni you 2 are as non canadian as they come. Your way of thinking does not jive in this country and it is also dangerous to this country and I dont care if you were born here. Your attitude is so un canadian. Quote Toronto, like a roach motel in the middle of a pretty living room. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dre Posted May 19, 2017 Report Share Posted May 19, 2017 On 5/16/2017 at 0:36 PM, Argus said: Because the entire judicial system is a ragged mess filled with incompetents and massive red tape. It is grossly inefficient, ineffectual, and should be torn down and rebuilt. The absurdity of taking years to get through even the simplest of criminal cases points to a system designed for the profit of lawyers and bureaucrats, not one that will mete out justice except by accident. Anyone who defends it is a party to that injustice. Why would you tear down one of the most effective judicial systems in human history? Quote The reality is the great majority of people arrested and held are repeat career criminals. That may be the case, but they have already served their time for those crimes, and they are innocent of new charges until proven guilty. In extreme circumstances bail IS withheld, but again that should be very rare. The state should not be able to just accuse you of something, and throw you in jail without a trial. And all we need to do to reduce backlogs, is stop dragging people through the courts on frivalous charges like using soft drugs, or growing pot. Quote I question things because I am human. And call no one my father who's no closer than a stranger Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dre Posted May 19, 2017 Report Share Posted May 19, 2017 1 hour ago, PIK said: Come on dia and omni you 2 are as non canadian as they come. Your way of thinking does not jive in this country and it is also dangerous to this country and I dont care if you were born here. Your attitude is so un canadian. Actually the opinions that I have seen the post line up pretty well with most Canadians. Yours however do not. Also... attacking someones patriotism as a method to win an argument is something only morons do. Quote I question things because I am human. And call no one my father who's no closer than a stranger Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dialamah Posted May 19, 2017 Report Share Posted May 19, 2017 1 minute ago, dre said: The state should not be able to just accuse you of something, and throw you in jail without a trial. This is certainly an area where some Islamic countries have it over Canada. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Omni Posted May 19, 2017 Report Share Posted May 19, 2017 2 hours ago, PIK said: Your attitude is so un canadian Why, because I don't like bad law and I don't want criminals to be freed over it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Argus Posted May 20, 2017 Author Report Share Posted May 20, 2017 23 hours ago, dre said: Why would you tear down one of the most effective judicial systems in human history? And just what measure are you using for THAT assessment? Would you care to compare it to the one in place in the UK? Quote "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Argus Posted May 20, 2017 Author Report Share Posted May 20, 2017 23 hours ago, dialamah said: This is certainly an area where some Islamic countries have it over Canada. Cite? Names? Generally when accused of a crime in an Islamic country you're thrown into a hole for months, sometimes years, without trial. Some, of course, are more efficient in that they simply bring you before a cleric, and twenty minutes later your hand is being cut off - or your head. Quote "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Omni Posted May 20, 2017 Report Share Posted May 20, 2017 9 minutes ago, Argus said: And just what measure are you using for THAT assessment? Would you care to compare it to the one in place in the UK? Where did you ah, think, that ours comes from? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dialamah Posted May 20, 2017 Report Share Posted May 20, 2017 29 minutes ago, Argus said: Cite? Names? Generally when accused of a crime in an Islamic country you're thrown into a hole for months, sometimes years, without trial. Yes, that is exactly my point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dre Posted May 22, 2017 Report Share Posted May 22, 2017 On 5/20/2017 at 2:00 PM, Argus said: And just what measure are you using for THAT assessment? Would you care to compare it to the one in place in the UK? Crime rates, violent crime rates, murder rates, attempted murder rates. We compare fairly well with our peers. The system can be improved, but "tearing it down" and starting over again would just be flat out dumb, and your assertion is just meaningless rhetoric calling for something stupid that both of us know is never going to happen.. For the most part its just all British common-law. It has served us pretty well for many decades. And the courts in general are pretty much the only entity that stands up for your rights and mine, and protects us from "government gone wild" whether is conservative idiots, or liberal idiots that happen to be running the country. The courts are the ONLY part of government in this country where professionalism is still valued. The judges are people picked from our own populations, and for the most part they are really smart people... They know 100 times as much about the law as you EVER will. And my opinion is based on my own experiences. I FEEL like I'm safe from crime. I can walk down any street in my city at night with confidence. I find that overall we have an environment that's easy to operate in. Quote I question things because I am human. And call no one my father who's no closer than a stranger Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Argus Posted May 22, 2017 Author Report Share Posted May 22, 2017 (edited) 13 hours ago, dre said: Crime rates, violent crime rates, murder rates, attempted murder rates. We compare fairly well with our peers. That is an absurd statement. You can't use crime rates to judge the worthiness of a criminal justice system. Crime rates are based on any number of factors, including societal order and culture as well as economic well-being. Quote The system can be improved, but "tearing it down" and starting over again would just be flat out dumb, Why? There is nothing to recommend the current system. Nothing. Whether it is criminal, family or corporate law, everything about the current legal system is arcane, unpredictable, extraordinarily inefficient, time-consuming and expensive. The only people it serves are the ones who operate within it and enrich themselves by taking advantage of its gross inefficiencies. It is basically impossible for ordinary citizens to understand or make use of since no one, even those within it, actually understand it, and the guild which administers it charges enormous rates to try to interpret it in your favour. Or not. They get their gold regardless. Quote For the most part its just all British common-law. And yet British common-law as used in Britain can see to it that most criminal trials are done in weeks while in Canada it takes years. Throw it out, and throw out the Charter as well. Get rid of the lawyers and nominate judicial panels of laymen to deal with cases on the basis of fairness, justice and common sense. Quote The judges are people picked from our own populations, and for the most part they are really smart people... They know 100 times as much about the law as you EVER will. That's a pretty damned sad indictment given that in our system a learned judge can make a ruling on law, and then be unanimously overruled by an appeals court, which are themselves overruled by the Supreme Court. And if we were to institute some still-higher level of review, a sort of Super Supreme Court, it would, in all likelihood, overrule the Supreme court in many cases. And if we then had a Super-Duper Supreme court it would likely overrule the Super Supreme Court too. That's how screwed up and complicated our laws are. Edited May 22, 2017 by Argus Quote "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Omni Posted May 22, 2017 Report Share Posted May 22, 2017 7 minutes ago, Argus said: That's a pretty damned sad indictment given that in our system a learned judge can make a ruling on law, and then be unanimously overruled by an appeals court, which are themselves overruled by the Supreme Court Would you prefer to have no checks and balances within our system them? As has been pointed out we have very learned people within our court system, but nobody is perfect. As well, the high courts are more involved with the constitution and charter rights which I would hope even you would like protected. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Macadoo Posted May 22, 2017 Report Share Posted May 22, 2017 Nope...he who pays the most tax should rule. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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