JamesHackerMP Posted June 30, 2017 Report Posted June 30, 2017 Wait, Betsy, were we not discussing this on another thread? You've started several different threads, on virtually the same day, basically discussing what you were discussing in the thread on why trust the Bible. Quote "We're not above nature, Mr Hacker, we're part of it. Men are animals, too!" "I know that, I've just come from the House of Commons!" [Yes, Minister]
betsy Posted June 30, 2017 Author Report Posted June 30, 2017 (edited) 3 hours ago, JamesHackerMP said: Wait, Betsy, were we not discussing this on another thread? You've started several different threads, on virtually the same day, basically discussing what you were discussing in the thread on why trust the Bible. Uh......this one is different, James. Can't you tell? Check out the title again. This is the thread where your so-called Judas contradiction - hanging/splitting belly - should've been posted. Can you cite any other contradictions? Or, I might end up going into one of those atheist' sites that posted alleged contradictions, and maybe.....I'll refute them here, one by one. Just for the fun of it. Edited June 30, 2017 by betsy Quote
betsy Posted June 30, 2017 Author Report Posted June 30, 2017 (edited) On 5/2/2017 at 0:01 PM, DogOnPorch said: How come "God" is making new stars and planets? Sorry, I missed this one. God is not "making new stars and planets." Here's a scientific explanation, DOP. Quote As far as the laws or processes of the physical universe are concerned, these all devolve upon two extremely broad and powerful principles, the so-called first and second Laws of thermodynamics. Let it be emphasized that, if there is really such a thing as a law of science, these two principles meet that definition. There is no other scientific law supported more fully and certainly by more numerous and meaningful lines of evidence than are these two laws. All physical processes (and all biologic processes, for that matter) involve the interplay of two basic entities called energy and entropy. One could say that any event occurring in space and time is a manifestation of some form of exchange of energy. The particular event or process basically is just this transformation of one or more forms of energy (kinetic or motion energy, electrical, chemical, light, heat, sound, electromagnetic, nuclear, or other forms of energy) into one or more other forms. In this process, the total energy remains unchanged; no energy is either created or destroyed, although its form may and does change. This is the first law of thermodynamics, the law of conservation of energy. This law has been validated on both the cosmic and sub-nuclear scales and is a truly universal law, if there is such a thing. And, since energy really includes everything, even matter, in the physical universe, it is as certain as anything can possibly be, scientifically, that no creation of anything is now taking place in the universe, under the normal conditions which science is able to study. http://www.icr.org/home/resources/resources_tracts_tbiatos/ I suppose I also missed adding the First Law of Thermodynamics as another evidence in the other thread, "Why Trust The Bible." Edited June 30, 2017 by betsy Quote
betsy Posted June 30, 2017 Author Report Posted June 30, 2017 (edited) On 5/2/2017 at 1:35 PM, DogOnPorch said: Nobody asked any of that: I asked...Why is God making new stars and planets? Which relates to: Metallicity...which I feel you have no understanding of. So you ignore it out of ignorance. Thus...what is Metallicity and how does it relate to Earth and our Type G star? Quote DOP Metallicity...which you do not understand. If you don't understand something, you ignore it. Metallicity is important....what is it? Just the basics... Ahhhh.....this is the thread where you really harped on metallicity. We can thank JamesHacker that I ended up reviewing this thread. I knew I've responded to that already. Post #27! Here, let's re-post it: Here's your metallicity. It's not the way you explained it! Furthermore, it's still nothing but a theory. Quote Metallicity within stars and other astronomical objects is an approximate estimation of their chemical abundances that change over time by the mechanisms of stellar evolution,[4] and therefore provide an indication of their age.[5] In cosmological terms, the universe is chemically evolving. According to the Big Bang Theory, the early universe first consisted of hydrogen and helium, with trace amounts of lithium and beryllium, but no heavier elements. Through the process of stellar evolution stars first generate energy by synthesising metals from hydrogen and helium by nuclear reactions, then disperse most of their mass by stellar winds or explode as supernovae, dispersing the new metals into the universe.[6] It is believed that older generations of stars generally have lower metallicities than those of younger generations,[7] having been formed in the metal-poor early universe. Quote https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metallicity If it's stellar evolution - they've gotta be existing already, right? What would evolve if it's not existing? Believed? We don't accept, "believe," unless there's something to back it up! What is this? Quasi-religion? Quasi-faith? Even I, gave evidences - and still giving evidences - in the forum, to support my faith! Furthermore, you also said: Quote On 5/2/2017 at 3:29 PM, DogOnPorch said: The point being: The Sun...a typical G-type star...didn't come in the beginning of nuthin'. It's a Population I Metal Rich Star...which means other stars had to die in spectacular supernovae creating elements beyond the basic primordial hydrogen to allow our star to be born. That's pretty much Lithium and beyond on the periodic table... As well, new stars are being born from the remnants of dead stars as we type our words. God hits "New Game" a lot...for us humans being the be-all-end-all of the Universe. My opinion...lol. To which I replied and asked: Where did those other stars that had to die come from? Did you reply to that? Did I miss it? Anyway..... Now we know about transformed energy. Because of the First Law of Thermodynamics! Edited June 30, 2017 by betsy Quote
JamesHackerMP Posted June 30, 2017 Report Posted June 30, 2017 2 hours ago, betsy said: Sorry, I missed this one. God is not "making new stars and planets." Here's a scientific explanation, DOP. http://www.icr.org/home/resources/resources_tracts_tbiatos/ I suppose I also missed adding the First Law of Thermodynamics as another evidence in the other thread, "Why Trust The Bible." See what I mean Betsy? I don't criticize your obvious enthusiasm in your beliefs, but you've already covered that in the other thread. It's like you're trying to barrage your audience with the same information. I don't care that we don't agree, smart people don't always agree; but you're preaching more than discussing. It's kind of like saturation bombing with a bible. But fair enough, if you want to talk contradictions in the Bible, I'll bite. I might have mentioned the discrepancy between Acts and Matthew re the death of Judas. In case I didn't: When Judas, his betrayer, saw that he was condemned, he repented and brought back the thirty pieces of silver to the chief priests and the elders, saying, "I have sinned in betraying innocent blood." They said, "What is that to us? See to it yourself." And throwing down the pieces of silver in the temple, he departed; and he went and hanged himself. (Matthew 27:3-5) But in another source: Now this man bought a field with the reward of his wickedness; and falling headlong, he burst open in the middle and all his bowels gushed out. (Acts 1:18) No mention is made of his hanging himself. Instead, he swells up (footnote says "or swelling up" under "falling headlong") in his stomach and his bowels spontaneously combust. So there's one contradiction. BTW, the use of boldface, larger fonts and different colors isn't helping to advance your argument. Quote "We're not above nature, Mr Hacker, we're part of it. Men are animals, too!" "I know that, I've just come from the House of Commons!" [Yes, Minister]
DogOnPorch Posted June 30, 2017 Report Posted June 30, 2017 2 hours ago, betsy said: Ahhhh.....this is the thread where you really harped on metallicity. We can thank JamesHacker that I ended up reviewing this thread. I knew I've responded to that already. Post #27! Here, let's re-post it: Here's your metallicity. It's not the way you explained it! Furthermore, it's still nothing but a theory. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metallicity If it's stellar evolution - they've gotta be existing already, right? What would evolve if it's not existing? Believed? We don't accept, "believe," unless there's something to back it up! What is this? Quasi-religion? Quasi-faith? Even I, gave evidences - and still giving evidences - in the forum, to support my faith! Furthermore, you also said: To which I replied and asked: Where did those other stars that had to die come from? Did you reply to that? Did I miss it? Anyway..... Now we know about transformed energy. Because of the First Law of Thermodynamics! You're free to think that how stars function isn't understood. Quote Nothing cracks a turtle like Leon Uris.
betsy Posted June 30, 2017 Author Report Posted June 30, 2017 (edited) 1 hour ago, JamesHackerMP said: See what I mean Betsy? I don't criticize your obvious enthusiasm in your beliefs, but you've already covered that in the other thread. It's like you're trying to barrage your audience with the same information. I don't care that we don't agree, smart people don't always agree; but you're preaching more than discussing. It's kind of like saturation bombing with a bible. So what if I've covered that on other thread? It goes with the subject! Complain about it if it's irrelevant to the topic. Quote I might have mentioned the discrepancy between Acts and Matthew re the death of Judas. In case I didn't: When Judas, his betrayer, saw that he was condemned, he repented and brought back the thirty pieces of silver to the chief priests and the elders, saying, "I have sinned in betraying innocent blood." They said, "What is that to us? See to it yourself." And throwing down the pieces of silver in the temple, he departed; and he went and hanged himself. (Matthew 27:3-5) But in another source: Now this man bought a field with the reward of his wickedness; and falling headlong, he burst open in the middle and all his bowels gushed out. (Acts 1:18) No mention is made of his hanging himself. Instead, he swells up (footnote says "or swelling up" under "falling headlong") in his stomach and his bowels spontaneously combust. So there's one contradiction. Yes! SWELLS UP! IN HIS STOMACH! And, HIS STOMACH SPONTANEOUSLY COMBUSTED! That was scientifically explained to you! Go to the other thread and read my response to you again! You really think everything has to be written - blow by blow - in the Bible? The Bible isn't a picture book for toddlers or adolescents, that everything has to be explained in details! Either you ignored my reply - And you wonder why I use LARGE and BOLD FONT? - or you don't understand what you read! It's like talking to the wall with you, James. Quote BTW, the use of boldface, larger fonts and different colors isn't helping to advance your argument. Using bold and large fonts......that's my business, JamesHacker. Not yours. Edited June 30, 2017 by betsy Quote
betsy Posted June 30, 2017 Author Report Posted June 30, 2017 (edited) 39 minutes ago, DogOnPorch said: You're free to think that how stars function isn't understood. That's not what is said in the article, DOP. The article is giving speculations. Therefore, nothing is really understood. Well? You're not explaining your version, DOP. All you do is make declarations without any further explanations. Explain. Edited June 30, 2017 by betsy Quote
DogOnPorch Posted June 30, 2017 Report Posted June 30, 2017 2 minutes ago, betsy said: That's not what is said in the article, DOP. The article is giving speculations. Therefore, nothing is really understood. Well? You're not explaining your version, DOP. All you do is make declarations without any further explanations. Explain. Gravity is a theory. A theory in science is something well established...like stellar evolution. We see it function as predicted...both in the stars themselves and in our own nuclear weapons and reactors. If it makes you feel more comfortable in your mythology to think that humans don't actually understand how their own hydrogen bombs work....have at it. Quote Nothing cracks a turtle like Leon Uris.
betsy Posted June 30, 2017 Author Report Posted June 30, 2017 6 minutes ago, DogOnPorch said: Gravity is a theory. A theory in science is something well established...like stellar evolution. We see it function as predicted...both in the stars themselves and in our own nuclear weapons and reactors. If it makes you feel more comfortable in your mythology to think that humans don't actually understand how their own hydrogen bombs work....have at it. The first law of thermodynamics answered your question about new stars, DOP. Stellar evolution doesn't answer, or address the question about the beginning. Quote
DogOnPorch Posted June 30, 2017 Report Posted June 30, 2017 1 minute ago, betsy said: The first law of thermodynamics answered your question about new stars, DOP. Stellar evolution doesn't answer, or address the question about the beginning. I seriously doubt you even begin to understand the math behind the laws you claim proves God's existence. But you're a good name dropper. For example: Explain in layman's terms what non-equilibrium transfers are in terms of the First Law of Thermodynamics. Feel free to cheat... Quote Nothing cracks a turtle like Leon Uris.
betsy Posted June 30, 2017 Author Report Posted June 30, 2017 (edited) 36 minutes ago, DogOnPorch said: I seriously doubt you even begin to understand the math behind the laws you claim proves God's existence. But you're a good name dropper. For example: Explain in layman's terms what non-equilibrium transfers are in terms of the First Law of Thermodynamics. Feel free to cheat... You're grabbing at everything - from metallicity to hydrogen bombs..... DOP, don't shift the conversation! You made a claim - explain. Edited June 30, 2017 by betsy Quote
Omni Posted June 30, 2017 Report Posted June 30, 2017 2 hours ago, JamesHackerMP said: BTW, the use of boldface, larger fonts and different colors isn't helping to advance your argument. Amen to that. It is her trademark it seems. Quote
eyeball Posted June 30, 2017 Report Posted June 30, 2017 On 5/1/2017 at 1:56 PM, betsy said: I'm not talking about wikipedia, Michael. Cite a contradiction in the Bible! Cain and Abel's wives. Quote A government without public oversight is like a nuclear plant without lead shielding.
DogOnPorch Posted June 30, 2017 Report Posted June 30, 2017 43 minutes ago, betsy said: You're grabbing at everything - from metallicity to hydrogen bombs..... DOP, don't shift the conversation! You made a claim - explain. Either you trust in the scientific method or you do not. I'll point-out that atomic bombs and reactors work and it isn't some sort of magic beyond our understanding. Now that we've determined that you do not understand the laws nor the the math behind the laws of thermodynamics that you flit about...why should you be taken seriously in any argument? That's the trouble with name-dropping concepts you're not comfortable with. What if somebody wants you to explain it to them...slowly? We get this situation...where you have to drop the ball and run. Metallicity: elements beyond primordial hydrogen and helium are synthesized inside stars...which then explode releasing all the remaining elements you know and love (copper, tin, arsenic, uranium, etc.) into the Universe...unless you believe in magic...and you seem to. Our star/planets is/are made from the remains of these exploding stars. As Carl Sagan said: We are all made of star stuff. You included. Meaning: We weren't created In The Beginning as your magic Bronze Age book claims. Quote Nothing cracks a turtle like Leon Uris.
betsy Posted June 30, 2017 Author Report Posted June 30, 2017 1 hour ago, eyeball said: Cain and Abel's wives. What about them? Explain. Quote
betsy Posted June 30, 2017 Author Report Posted June 30, 2017 (edited) 1 hour ago, DogOnPorch said: Metallicity: elements beyond primordial hydrogen and helium are synthesized inside stars...which then explode releasing all the remaining elements you know and love (copper, tin, arsenic, uranium, etc.) into the Universe...unless you believe in magic...and you seem to. Our star/planets is/are made from the remains of these exploding stars. As Carl Sagan said: We are all made of star stuff. You included. Meaning: We weren't created In The Beginning as your magic Bronze Age book claims. We're talking the "beginning," as in Big Bang! If the primordial hydrogen and hellium are synthesized inside the star.....that means the stars already existed. Where did those stars come from? Edited June 30, 2017 by betsy Quote
DogOnPorch Posted June 30, 2017 Report Posted June 30, 2017 Just now, betsy said: Where did those stars come from? Where do YOU think they came from? Let's set the playing field... Quote Nothing cracks a turtle like Leon Uris.
DogOnPorch Posted June 30, 2017 Report Posted June 30, 2017 4 minutes ago, betsy said: What about them? Explain. Men can try to have babies...really, really try. Quote Nothing cracks a turtle like Leon Uris.
betsy Posted June 30, 2017 Author Report Posted June 30, 2017 1 minute ago, DogOnPorch said: Where do YOU think they came from? Let's set the playing field... I edited. Read it again. Quote
DogOnPorch Posted June 30, 2017 Report Posted June 30, 2017 4 minutes ago, betsy said: We're talking the "beginning," as in Big Bang! If the primordial hydrogen and hellium are synthesized inside the star.....that means the stars already existed. Where did those stars come from? You really don't understand a darn thing yet you think you do. NOWHERE did I say primordial hydrogen was created in stars. Now you want me to teach all the sciences (Physics, Chemistry, Biology, etc) to you in forum-form just so you can say "God did it." But, I admire your pluck. I prefer the Socratic method with folks like yourself that wish to use science to further their private religious mythology: Ol' Socky asked: "What do you know?" So please...explain to me how YOU think stars formed. Quote Nothing cracks a turtle like Leon Uris.
eyeball Posted June 30, 2017 Report Posted June 30, 2017 43 minutes ago, betsy said: What about them? Explain. Exactly. Quote A government without public oversight is like a nuclear plant without lead shielding.
betsy Posted June 30, 2017 Author Report Posted June 30, 2017 (edited) 1 hour ago, DogOnPorch said: You really don't understand a darn thing yet you think you do. NOWHERE did I say primordial hydrogen was created in stars.[/quote] Well, you don't understand what you read! I said: If the primordial hydrogen and hellium are synthesized inside the star.....that means the stars already existed. Where did those stars come from? You said, "synthesized." I merely repeated what you said. Quote So please...explain to me how YOU think stars formed. Why are you passing that on to me? You're the one who's making a claim here! Edited June 30, 2017 by betsy Quote
DogOnPorch Posted June 30, 2017 Report Posted June 30, 2017 Socrates asks: What do you know? You provide a response that shows me that you have no clue as to how stars work. What does your Bible say about how they work? Quote Nothing cracks a turtle like Leon Uris.
betsy Posted June 30, 2017 Author Report Posted June 30, 2017 37 minutes ago, DogOnPorch said: Socrates asks: What do you know? You provide a response that shows me that you have no clue as to how stars work. What does your Bible say about how they work? I'll say, "Socrates, you're the one making a claim. Furthermore, you're in Philosophy! You should know how to answer in a logical manner." Quote
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