betsy Posted May 2, 2017 Author Report Share Posted May 2, 2017 (edited) 1 hour ago, DogOnPorch said: The point being: The Sun...a typical G-type star...didn't come in the beginning of nuthin'. It's a Population I Metal Rich Star...which means other stars had to die in spectacular supernovae creating elements beyond the basic primordial hydrogen to allow our star to be born. That's pretty much Lithium and beyond on the periodic table... As well, new stars are being born from the remnants of dead stars as we type our words. God hits "New Game" a lot...for us humans being the be-all-end-all of the Universe. My opinion...lol. Where did those other stars that had to die come from? Cite your source please. Quote The Bible was written when humans had no clue as to how stars work. Now we know. Which actually supports the Bible! Imagine that. They had no clue, as well as no modern instruments to use.....and yet, they were able to say that the universe has a beginning.....and described that the heavens is stretching (which science had recently discovered btw, and "stretching" is the accurate word to describe it). Edited May 2, 2017 by betsy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
betsy Posted May 2, 2017 Author Report Share Posted May 2, 2017 (edited) 1 hour ago, DogOnPorch said: The point being: The Sun...a typical G-type star...didn't come in the beginning of nuthin'. It's a Population I Metal Rich Star...which means other stars had to die in spectacular supernovae creating elements beyond the basic primordial hydrogen to allow our star to be born. That's pretty much Lithium and beyond on the periodic table... Here's your metallicity. It's not the way you explained it! Furthermore, it's still nothing but a theory. Quote Metallicity within stars and other astronomical objects is an approximate estimation of their chemical abundances that change over time by the mechanisms of stellar evolution,[4] and therefore provide an indication of their age.[5] In cosmological terms, the universe is chemically evolving. According to the Big Bang Theory, the early universe first consisted of hydrogen and helium, with trace amounts of lithium and beryllium, but no heavier elements. Through the process of stellar evolution stars first generate energy by synthesising metals from hydrogen and helium by nuclear reactions, then disperse most of their mass by stellar winds or explode as supernovae, dispersing the new metals into the universe.[6] It is believed that older generations of stars generally have lower metallicities than those of younger generations,[7] having been formed in the metal-poor early universe. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metallicity It has nothing to do with the beginning of the universe! They're talking about stellar evolution - meaning, there were already heavenly bodies to evolve! Edited May 2, 2017 by betsy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DogOnPorch Posted May 2, 2017 Report Share Posted May 2, 2017 The last 4 posts are why religion must stay 1000 yards away from all science classes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hydraboss Posted May 2, 2017 Report Share Posted May 2, 2017 6 hours ago, Hydraboss said: I've always been curious about dinosaurs. Seriously. There is no doubt they existed, but can you imagine having a pair of velociraptors on the Ark? How, exactly, did that whole thing go down? I was serious about this Betsy. No sarcasm...looking for your opinion. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DogOnPorch Posted May 2, 2017 Report Share Posted May 2, 2017 5 minutes ago, Hydraboss said: I was serious about this Betsy. No sarcasm...looking for your opinion. Mary Anning didn't come along until the 19th century...but she was devoutly religious. None-the-less, she advanced paleontology greatly during her lifetime. The tongue-twisting poem She Sells Seashells was about her. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DogOnPorch Posted May 2, 2017 Report Share Posted May 2, 2017 2 hours ago, betsy said: Here's your metallicity. It's not the way you explained it! Furthermore, it's still nothing but a theory. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metallicity It has nothing to do with the beginning of the universe! They're talking about stellar evolution - meaning, there were already heavenly bodies to evolve! Betsy...you're still aces in my books, but you're a bit like this on this particular topic. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AekFGksvuDU Nothing poor old Richard could say...lol. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GostHacked Posted May 3, 2017 Report Share Posted May 3, 2017 On 5/1/2017 at 4:58 PM, betsy said: If you guys don't know of any specific contradiction....maybe I'll just have to get some from cited "contradictions" in those sites, and refute them here. 'Thou shall not kill.' ?? That kind of contradicts the numbers of people 'God' killed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Omni Posted May 3, 2017 Report Share Posted May 3, 2017 11 minutes ago, GostHacked said: 'Thou shall not kill.' ?? That kind of contradicts the numbers of people 'God' killed. Roger on that. And as I have said on here before, I figured out not to kill anybody w/o god telling me. I suspect many of us came to the same autonomous conclusion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DogOnPorch Posted May 3, 2017 Report Share Posted May 3, 2017 18 minutes ago, Omni said: Roger on that. And as I have said on here before, I figured out not to kill anybody w/o god telling me. I suspect many of us came to the same autonomous conclusion. W/O the thin line of civilization, you'd be on your rooftop with the same determination as that of a Korean grocer during a riot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
betsy Posted May 3, 2017 Author Report Share Posted May 3, 2017 12 hours ago, DogOnPorch said: The last 4 posts are why religion must stay 1000 yards away from all science classes. DOP, you're not saying anything about the argument you'd given. I gave you an explanation of metallicity from wikipedia. It had nothing to do about debunking the beginning! If that's not the "metallicity" you meant, why don't you explain? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
betsy Posted May 3, 2017 Author Report Share Posted May 3, 2017 (edited) 12 hours ago, Hydraboss said: I was serious about this Betsy. No sarcasm...looking for your opinion. I suppose the key phrase would be " according to its KIND." That specification is repeated 10 times in Genesis. What does God mean when He said, "according to its kind?" We don't know exactly. The designation of "kind" might even be broader than species (there are about 400 dog breeds belonging to one species). Maybe, "kind" refers to genus. The Bible referred to "sea serpent", "behemoth," and "leviathan." Were they dinosaurs? We don't know for sure. If they were.......could it be that God had sent infant animals in pairs? We don't know if the 7 creation days are to be taken literally, or not. Genesis' emphasis is not on how old earth or the universe is. We don't even know when the beginning began. There was no space or time prior to that. Genesis' emphasis is on creation by God. God did not say when in time exactly did He create earth. My view: God does not tell us to believe that everything was created in 7 human days, or that earth is this old or that. He tells us to believe that He is the Creator. Edited May 3, 2017 by betsy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
betsy Posted May 3, 2017 Author Report Share Posted May 3, 2017 (edited) 10 hours ago, GostHacked said: 'Thou shall not kill.' ?? That kind of contradicts the numbers of people 'God' killed. "Thou shalt not murder." Edited May 3, 2017 by betsy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DogOnPorch Posted May 3, 2017 Report Share Posted May 3, 2017 1 hour ago, betsy said: DOP, you're not saying anything about the argument you'd given. I gave you an explanation of metallicity from wikipedia. It had nothing to do about debunking the beginning! If that's not the "metallicity" you meant, why don't you explain? Metallicity proves the Sun and the Earth were made from other stars...not in the Beginning. We are not first...the Universe has been around longer than both our star and planet. Your Bible claims otherwise...thus the contradiction. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Big_Bang_nucleosynthesis https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stellar_nucleosynthesis As for verification of events such as the Big Bang, one has to understand a little chemistry...namely...what is Deuterium and how was it created and how it is destroyed? This also happens to be the "secret" of the Hydrogen Bomb... But all of this is unimportant to a true believer that rejects science as the enemy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
betsy Posted May 3, 2017 Author Report Share Posted May 3, 2017 (edited) 2 hours ago, DogOnPorch said: Metallicity proves the Sun and the Earth were made from other stars...not in the Beginning. We are not first...the Universe has been around longer than both our star and planet. Your Bible claims otherwise...thus the contradiction. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Big_Bang_nucleosynthesis https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stellar_nucleosynthesis As for verification of events such as the Big Bang, one has to understand a little chemistry...namely...what is Deuterium and how was it created and how it is destroyed? This also happens to be the "secret" of the Hydrogen Bomb... Who said we're the first? Quote But all of this is unimportant to a true believer that rejects science as the enemy. Does this look like I consider science as the "enemy?" Edited May 3, 2017 by betsy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DogOnPorch Posted May 3, 2017 Report Share Posted May 3, 2017 9 minutes ago, betsy said: Who said we're the first? Does this look like I consider science as the "enemy?" The Bible: In the Beginning, God created the Heavens and Earth. Oh gosh yes...science is not your friend. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
betsy Posted May 3, 2017 Author Report Share Posted May 3, 2017 (edited) 15 minutes ago, DogOnPorch said: The Bible: In the Beginning, God created the Heavens and Earth. Oh gosh yes...science is not your friend. What is the "heavens?" 1. often heavens The sky or universe as seen from the earth; the firmament. http://www.thefreedictionary.com/heavens "Heavens" can be the universe. How do we know if His description of creation in Genesis, is simply focused on earth, since He'll be dealing with humans. So, everything in Genesis is earth-related. How do we know there aren't other creations in other parts of the universe? Does it say anywhere in the Bible that we are the only creation in the universe? Edited May 3, 2017 by betsy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DogOnPorch Posted May 3, 2017 Report Share Posted May 3, 2017 Just now, betsy said: What is the "heavens?" We just have your Bible to look at..."expert opinions" don't count. Your Bible is vague and not to be trusted re: what is real and what is not. These folks didn't know stars existed...just painted lights on the firmament or such fancy. Yet you use your modern bias to assign modern meaning to these ancient Bronze Age verses...like they somehow knew the Universe in all its glory before we did. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
betsy Posted May 3, 2017 Author Report Share Posted May 3, 2017 Just now, DogOnPorch said: We just have your Bible to look at..."expert opinions" don't count. Your Bible is vague and not to be trusted re: what is real and what is not. These folks didn't know stars existed...just painted lights on the firmament or such fancy. Yet you use your modern bias to assign modern meaning to these ancient Bronze Age verses...like they somehow knew the Universe in all its glory before we did. You're simply giving your opinion, DOP - without any support at all. You've got this fixed "idea" that you've nurtured in your mind about the message in the Bible....and they're not accurate at all. At least, for all my alleged "bias" with my arguments - I do support my statements! And I asked you pointed question about the Bible, that you're ignoring now. Furthermore....your rambling about metallicity shows you don't even know what you're arguing about! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DogOnPorch Posted May 3, 2017 Report Share Posted May 3, 2017 9 minutes ago, betsy said: "Heavens" can be the universe. How do we know if His description of creation in Genesis, is simply focused on earth, since He'll be dealing with humans. So, everything in Genesis is earth-related. How do we know there aren't other creations in other parts of the universe? Does it say anywhere in the Bible that we are the only creation in the universe? Modern bias: it doesn't say Universe. It says Heavens AND Earth. How old is the Earth, besty...in your opinion. Is it around 10,000 years old or somewhat more? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
betsy Posted May 3, 2017 Author Report Share Posted May 3, 2017 (edited) 3 minutes ago, DogOnPorch said: Modern bias: it doesn't say Universe. It says Heavens AND Earth. How old is the Earth, besty...in your opinion. Is it around 10,000 years old or somewhat more? Read my response to Hydraboss. The age of the earth is not an issue. Heavens, can mean the universe. It's the view that we see from earth when we look up! I cannot debate with just your opinion, DOP. So....if you've got nothing substantial to say, I suppose we're done here? Edited May 3, 2017 by betsy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DogOnPorch Posted May 3, 2017 Report Share Posted May 3, 2017 Just now, betsy said: You're simply giving your opinion, DOP - without any support at all. You've got this fixed "idea" that you've nurtured in your mind about the message in the Bible....and they're not accurate at all. At least, for all my alleged "bias" with my arguments - I do support my statements! And I asked you pointed question about the Bible, that you're ignoring now. Furthermore....your rambling about metallicity shows you don't even know what you're arguing about! Metallicity proves that our star..the Sun...wasn't born in the beginning. It's a fairly young star as they go in the Main Sequence @ 5 billion-ish years old. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DogOnPorch Posted May 3, 2017 Report Share Posted May 3, 2017 Just now, betsy said: Read my response to Hydraboss. The age of the earth is not an issue. Heavens, can mean the universe. It's the view that we see from earth when we look up! Yes it is...you don't get to rewrite the Bible as you go. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
betsy Posted May 3, 2017 Author Report Share Posted May 3, 2017 2 minutes ago, DogOnPorch said: Yes it is...you don't get to rewrite the Bible as you go. There's a reason why I say the age of the earth is not a real issue. You can't argue when you obviously lack knowledge of the Bible. 2 Peter 3 8 But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day. Now, that thousand years could also be a figure of speech - meaning that God's day is not the same as human day. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DogOnPorch Posted May 3, 2017 Report Share Posted May 3, 2017 4 minutes ago, betsy said: There's a reason why I say the age of the earth is not a real issue. You can't argue when you obviously lack knowledge of the Bible. 2 Peter 3 8 But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day. Now, that thousand years could also be a figure of speech - meaning that God's day is not the same as human day. How old is the Earth, betsy? In your opinion...or are you afraid to claim it's only 10,000 or so years old? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GostHacked Posted May 3, 2017 Report Share Posted May 3, 2017 12 hours ago, betsy said: "Thou shalt not murder." Kill , murder, ... what is the difference Betsy? However there is your FIRST contradiction. God says, 'thou shalt not murder', but you tell me how many people God killed/murdered? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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