Arkansas hurries to execute convicts before drugs expire

[Guest]

1 minute ago, Omni said:

Except if you didn't get my point, these drugs actually cause more suffering, not less. Eyewitnesses to the most recent executions in Arkansas as well as many others have spoken about just that. Maybe as much as the likes of BC make a joke about it, a firing squad would be better, if you feel the need to do it in the first place. 

I'm talking about those who make the drugs used in assisted suicide. I agree a firing squad would be better.  Or the guilotine, better still.

Or, wait until they are asleep, without knowing their date has been set, and pump N2 into their cell.  Or H2S, even. Of course, the H2S could be dodgy for bystanders too.  

[Omni]

Well in full disclosure I recall saying in a discussion with a couple of buddies of mine over a beer on this very subject, I said off the cuff, in certain cases just give me a baseball bat and put me in a room with this guy for a couple of minutes and I will save the taxpayer a ton of money. Get my point? Now, would I actually do that, no. My bottom line is even if you murder a murderer, you're still a murderer. And, speaking of money, look at what it costs the US taxpayer to finally put someone to death  by the time they go through the appeals system which of course they can't pay for because they are in jail. Our system is much better, life sentence and if they want to fight they have to pay for their own lawyer, and if they don't reform they can't get out.  

[Bonam]

21 minutes ago, bcsapper said:

I don't, and I would. Like I said, if the criminal is going to be executed regardless, and my drug can ease their passing, I would be okay with it. 

You would, until you realized that letting your drug be used in executions results in protesters outside your company's offices heckling your employees and calling them murderers. Then you'd reconsider very quickly. 

[Guest]

Just now, Bonam said:

You would, until you realized that letting your drug be used in executions results in protesters outside your company's offices heckling your employees and calling them murderers. Then you'd reconsider very quickly. 

Perhaps. I would want the protesters to explain why they were so set on the poor bastards suffering though.  

[bush_cheney2004]

Governor Bill Clinton hustled back to Arkansas in 1992 to make sure a convicted murderer was executed (Ricky Rector).

Nevertheless, Hug-A-Thug® Canada still loves Bill Clinton.

[Omni]

7 minutes ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

Governor Bill Clinton hustled back to Arkansas in 1992 to make sure a convicted murderer was executed (Ricky Rector).

Nevertheless, Hug-A-Thug® Canada still loves Bill Clinton.

Is this hug a thug bs you constantly flail around have to do with the fact you see how successful our criminal justice system is compared to yours?

[Bonam]

11 minutes ago, bcsapper said:

Perhaps. I would want the protesters to explain why they were so set on the poor bastards suffering though.  

Good luck reasoning with protesters. 

[AngusThermopyle]

10 hours ago, Omni said:

Is this hug a thug bs you constantly flail around have to do with the fact you see how successful our criminal justice system is compared to yours?

It's not a justice system though, it's a legal system. Do you really think Marco Muzzo getting ten years was justice? Especially when one considers the fact that he'll probably be out far sooner than ten years. It should also be considered that this sentence is one of the harshest handed down in Canada for this offense. That's not a justice system, that's a legal system rolling right ahead.

 

http://news.nationalpost.com/news/canada/marco-muzzo-gets-10-years-in-jail-for-drunk-driving-crash-that-killed-three-newmarket-kids-and-their-grandfather

[Omni]

6 hours ago, AngusThermopyle said:

It's not a justice system though, it's a legal system. Do you really think Marco Muzzo getting ten years was justice? Especially when one considers the fact that he'll probably be out far sooner than ten years. It should also be considered that this sentence is one of the harshest handed down in Canada for this offense. That's not a justice system, that's a legal system rolling right ahead.

 

http://news.nationalpost.com/news/canada/marco-muzzo-gets-10-years-in-jail-for-drunk-driving-crash-that-killed-three-newmarket-kids-and-their-grandfather

No doubt there are some who slip through the cracks, or in Muzzo's case can afford enough lawyership to create a crack, although I am aware that in this case he did plead guilt from the get go. My point though is if you look at our recidivism they are about half of that of the US. There could be various reasons for that but I think a couple are that we have rehab programs built into the system coupled with a revue system of professionals who can judge those who do not respond to those programs and delay their release if need be. Also, judges here are actually able to judge by which I mean they are not bound by mandatory minimums like the US. I recall hearing an interview with a retired US state judge who discussed  a case were he had in front of him a high school graduate who got caught with a couple of joints on him. He wasn't trafficking he was just giving MJ a try, and it was his first time in a courtroom. The kid had two scholarships heading into college, one for sports and the other for his academic ability. The judge said I had no choice but to send him to jail for a year, of course wrecking what was looking like a pretty rosy future.He remarked that if not for the MMS he would have fined him a couple hundred bucks and given him a scolding and a warning not to ever show up in his courtroom again. Also he said if that kid wasn't a criminal going in, he sure as hell will likely one when he gets out. But getting back to the point, I will never believe that state sanctioned killing is either moral, or effective. 

[Boges]

Thread Drift but Muzzo pleaded guilty and was remorseful. Not sure what putting him in jail for 20 years accomplishes. 

As for the drugs. Lethal Injection is probably the last method I'd choose. Firing Squad would probably be best. I actually wouldn't like a Guillitine. Who really wants to know if you actually see anything for a period of time after your head is removed from your body. 

[AngusThermopyle]

9 minutes ago, Boges said:

Thread Drift but Muzzo pleaded guilty and was remorseful. Not sure what putting him in jail for 20 years accomplishes. 

As for the drugs. Lethal Injection is probably the last method I'd choose. Firing Squad would probably be best. I actually wouldn't like a Guillitine. Who really wants to know if you actually see anything for a period of time after your head is removed from your body. 

Pleading guilty and being remorseful are standard court room tactics and mean nothing in reality. Besides which, who gives a rats ass anyway, those kids and their grandfather will still be needlessly dead. He was pissed drunk and knowingly drove, not the first time he'd done it either. He deserves no sympathy or consideration. His stupid selfishness ended those lives and a few years in prison will not change that fact.

[Boges]

6 minutes ago, AngusThermopyle said:

Pleading guilty and being remorseful are standard court room tactics and mean nothing in reality. Besides which, who gives a rats ass anyway, those kids and their grandfather will still be needlessly dead. He was pissed drunk and knowingly drove, not the first time he'd done it either. He deserves no sympathy or consideration. His stupid selfishness ended those lives and a few years in prison will not change that fact.

And 30 years in prison won't do anything either. He doesn't pose any threat to the public, he's not a violent offender. 

 

[AngusThermopyle]

5 minutes ago, Boges said:

And 30 years in prison won't do anything either. He doesn't pose any threat to the public, he's not a violent offender. 

 

Here is where we disagree. In my opinion he is a violent offender. It simply can't be argued in this day and age that he just made a mistake. Unless he's a simpleton of the first order he deliberately made a conscious decision that he knew could very well place others at risk, yet still he decided to do what he did. Sure, 30 years in prison won't bring those lives back, but on the other hand it is hardly just that he ended those multiple lives and only suffers the loss of a few years of his in return. Given that he wont be in a max security institution it's hardly an extreme sentence by any measure. I was always raised to take responsibility for my actions, to own what is mine. This whole situation smacks of the opposite of that philosophy. Anyway now were veering into thread drift so perhaps we should just agree to disagree on this issue.

 

[Hydraboss]

53 minutes ago, Boges said:

Firing Squad would probably be best

Utah can accomodate you

[Omni]

53 minutes ago, Boges said:

Thread Drift but Muzzo pleaded guilty and was remorseful. Not sure what putting him in jail for 20 years accomplishes. 

As for the drugs. Lethal Injection is probably the last method I'd choose. Firing Squad would probably be best. I actually wouldn't like a Guillitine. Who really wants to know if you actually see anything for a period of time after your head is removed from your body. 

Well, I never really "looked" at that aspect of the Guillotine, but I felt dizzy for a few moments thinking about it.

[Hydraboss]

Firing squad has about a zero percent chance of failing, and with the one blank bullet, guilt free for the shooters!

Bullets are cheap.  They should just get on with it.

[Omni]

Now that the advancement of DNA has rescued a number of innocent convicts from death row, it seems incompetent lawyers may be putting them right back on.

 

http://www.npr.org/2017/04/24/525441597/harvard-project-outlines-pattern-of-attorney-failures-in-arkansas-death-row-case

[Guest]

4 hours ago, Omni said:

Well, I never really "looked" at that aspect of the Guillotine, but I felt dizzy for a few moments thinking about it.

There was a fellow named Henri Languille who purportedly lived for thirty seconds or so.  Creepy tale. I couldn't link to it as I'm on an apple thing.  Look it up.  Apparently he reacted to his name by opening his eyes, twice!  Maybe firing squad for me after all.

i did find out that "capital punishment" comes from " decapitation".  Who knew?  

[Guest]

4 hours ago, Hydraboss said:

Firing squad has about a zero percent chance of failing, and with the one blank bullet, guilt free for the shooters!

Bullets are cheap.  They should just get on with it.

I could always tell the difference between blanks and real ammo. I wonder if they have special blanks that simulate accurate recoil. 

[Wilber]

Don't execute people. Problem solved

[Omni]

And what happens if they don't get them all killed before the expiry date on the drugs? 

[taxme]

3 hours ago, Wilber said:

Don't execute people. Problem solved

If the nut case that cut the head off of a young lad on a bus a few years ago was your kid, I wonder if you would still have the same opinion, and wish Canada had the death penalty? I know that I would want that animal put to death if it were any of my family, and I would offer my services for free to be able to put his lights out. This is where the death penalty should be used. There was no doubt about who did it, so there should be no excuse for anyone to be able to say, but wait, he could be innocent. 

[Omni]

3 hours ago, taxme said:

If the nut case that cut the head off of a young lad on a bus a few years ago was your kid, I wonder if you would still have the same opinion, and wish Canada had the death penalty? I know that I would want that animal put to death if it were any of my family, and I would offer my services for free to be able to put his lights out. This is where the death penalty should be used. There was no doubt about who did it, so there should be no excuse for anyone to be able to say, but wait, he could be innocent. 

So you like the idea of state sanctioned murder. Why am I not surprised?

[taxme]

8 hours ago, Omni said:

So you like the idea of state sanctioned murder. Why am I not surprised?

Indeed I do. Why put someone in jail for so many years or forever where the taxpayer's have to pay lots of tax dollars to feed,clothe, and house them, plus give them other goodies thrown in there for good measure. They may have just murdered one of your loved ones, and you appear to feel that it is alright what they did, and that they should spend time in jail rather than be executed for killing someone you love? If one wants to take the life of someone than they should have to forfeit their life. I do not have a problem with that. Why should they get to still live while your family member killed cannot. It seems only common sense and logical to me. 

 

[Omni]

1 minute ago, taxme said:

Indeed I do. Why put someone in jail for so many years or forever where the taxpayer's have to pay lots of tax dollars to feed,clothe, and house them, plus give them other goodies thrown in there for good measure. They may have just murdered one of your loved ones, and you appear to feel that it is alright what they did, and that they should spend time in jail rather than be executed for killing someone you love? If one wants to take the life of someone than they should have to forfeit their life. I do not have a problem with that. Why should they get to still live while your family member killed cannot. It seems only common sense and logical to me. 

 

I'd like to hear what your so called "extra goodies" amount to. But if you want to look at it from a strictly cost perspective, check out what it costs the US taxpayer by the time they actually get around to killing a prisoner as opposed to housing one for many years. Give you a hint, it's the lengthy. mandatory appeals process.